Cole Hammonds

Matt glad to hear you've only recently started feeding hay your ahead of most. I've got to say that it sounds like this hay feeding routine you've got requires an incredible amount of daily time and labor. Why not set out a 20 or so bales in the pasture, whatever a week or two or three worth of hay is for you and use your polywire to cut out 2-3 days worth. Search bale grazing Steve Kenyon he has written several articles about it in stockman grass farmer. We have had very good luck with this technique and it significantly reduces time and labor. You decide where the cattle spread it out by where you place the hay and yes there is some "waste". I put a high value on my time as I'm sure you do and I doubt that the hay you are spending time trying to save is of any value when compared to the value your free time.

The main point that I was trying to make is that with best management practices, sheep and cows should not ever be grazing the same pastures at the same time. They have different grazing needs, and as such, need to be managed separately

I think a little more clarification needs to be made on this comment. What are these "Best management practices "you speak of. I've had great success running large groups of lambing ewes, 200+, in/with large groups of calving cattle,100+, while maintaining an 180% weaned lamb crop. I have found them to be very complementary. One of the biggest costs in small ruminant production is the loss of gain that is caused by intestinal parasites. Cattle are dead end hosts to the same parasites that plague small's and the same is true with small's as a dead end host to cattle parasites. Cattle with sheep can/will significantly reduce the need to worm both species while improving the average daily gain of both. I have found this to be the key to having a low input small ruminant operation in a humid climate. I cannot speak to any of the diseases that were brought accept to say that I have had none. Run them together.

Dairy cows, and cattle in general, are a higher value class of livestock, so I do not want to make less than optimal use of my pasture resource feeding sheep. Sheep and cows are largely competitive with one another, so I am taking on extra labor to deal with two species, and also raising a lower value animal with sheep. For these reasons I do not raise sheep anymore, and just keep my stocking numbers as high as my pasture will support with cows.

Remember a dairy is probably the most profitable ruminate operation on a per/acre basis, but only with significant labor costs and high quality forage. This cannot be compared to "cattle in general" Only the very best Cow/calf operations are able to keep up with sheep on a per/acre basis and this is only a very recent phenomenon due to the unprecedented rise in the cattle market. The market will most likely fall when the US cattle herd stabilizes and sheep will offer a very good return on grass.

Sheep are excellent improvers of pasture. With proper grazing management, they will turn an average pasture into a dairy quality pasture faster than any other class of livestock. So it is great to run sheep for a few years without cows, simply to get your pastures where they need to be. Sheep have much lower quality requirements than cows so they will thrive in situations where cows would struggle. All the while improving the pasture.

I have found PROPERLY MANAGED cattle can build soil much faster than sheep. This is due to trampling and conditioning effect of the hoof of cattle. The weight of a Bovine can crush litter into contact with the soil surface far better than the small hoof a 100lb ewe. This is what brings soil organic matter up and leads to a thicker, higher quality sward. This must be done at high densities, moved frequently and preferably with dry cows. Sheep will eat more "weeds" than cattle so why not run them together and increase your utilization. And why not throw some goats in there while your at it..if your fences allow.

Hey Matt, are you dairying or are these beef cattle? Round or square bails? Tractor or no tractor? Field or barn fed? Here is my philosophy on hay, take what fits you.. first and foremost avoid feeding it at all, except in deep snow/emergency's. In general hay costs are the biggest cost to livestock producers and year-round grazing is quite possible in your neck of the woods. I realize that you probably have a limited land base as most of us do but I promise leasing some more pasture will be cheaper than buying hay. Second, what is this wasted hay? I bet its dried grass that has been stomped, dunged and pissed on to the point where its unpalatable to your livestock but remember that you are also a grass and soil life farmer. Wasted hay = the cheapest fertilizer you can buy. When I do feed hay it is done on the poorest areas of the farms and is viewed as feed for a stock and soil. Also, unless you buying very high quality hay, which is nonexistent in my area, you must be careful of asking the stock to consume all of it especially if it is a growing class of animal, performance will be sacrificed. And no I don't use hay feeders..to expensive, you've got to move them and I really don't think they work.
Keep there heads down
Cole