Daniel Bowden

The soil tends toward sandy with some clay, but very little else beyond the thin layer of top soil, so it tends to be poroys. I don't think drainage will be too much of a problem, but that is some great feedback re: wood chips vs other fill.

I live on rolling hills of decomposed granite, in an area that gets about 25 inch of rain a year, primarily in the months November through April. The summers are dry and hot, with little to no rain from June into October, and temperatures around 110 degrees and higher.

I was going to plant my elderberry trees in mounds of wood chip mulch, but today the idea occurred to me to plant them in pits. I'm thinking of pits that are three or four feet wide, and one to two feet deep. Probably 2 or 3 inches of mulch lining the pits, and branches laid across the top for shade.

My thought is that the pit would capture more water and would remain a few degrees cooler then the surrounding area during the hot summer months. By placing tree branches over the pits the root Zone would be shaded, again creating better temperature regulation during the summer months. Of course the mulch would both retain water and moderate soil temperatures.

The soil on our land is decomposed granite, so I really have to work to retain moisture and friability, and I'm thinking that this might be the best approach well the trees are still young and getting established. Eventually the pits will fill in from the biomass created by the trees, is they are known to drop a lot of leaves and a lot of broken branches.

Can any of you see flaws with this plan? Suggestions of how I could do it better? Would it be better to stay with my original plan of wood chips above-the-ground and planting through them?

Great info! I think I'm leaning more toward various birds combined with pigs. It will be a U-pick orchard, and I'm adding in a few camp sites to rent out. The birds might stay year-round while the pigs would likely overwinter and then rotate out.

Also, I'm leaving some mature high oak canopy, so the pigs would really enjoy the acorns.

Oh, plus pigs love to eat poison oak, which is currently our main crop. :\

Hey Marco, I finally got around to watching that video. Thanks! That is kind of what I have in mind, only my vision was not nearly as expansive. Now I'm inspired to look for more plant species to integrate.

Chickens are in the plans already. I like your idea of ducks, too. We hope to get guineas if for no other reason than to control the ticks. I'll consider those turkeys. Anoher related thread also had turkeys as a suggestion, and Joel Salatin speaks highly of them, so I guess I need to start researching! Thanks!

S Bengi wrote:How big is the space between the rows are we talking silvopasture 60ft+ spacing or the usual 20ft between rows/trees.
Not having more info, I would recommended ducks.

About 16' between rows, which will be more like hedges than spaced orchard trees. They'll follow contour under a high, open canopy of oak, madrone, fir, and pine. It is currently a wild and wooly woodlot, so plenty of poison oak, wild vines, etc to deal with even after we remove most of the trees this winter. My goal is to get 6' wide grassy lanes between the berms of wood chips that the trees will be planted in.

Kris schulenburg wrote:Sheep would eat anything they can reach and may eat the bark. Geese are supposed to be good grazers. Heritage Turkeys do some grazing you would need to clip flight feathers.

Great to know! We had 2 sheep a long time ago, but they were always in a pen.

Geese... Not sure on that one. I plan to make the orchard a U-pick operation, so I'm not sure I want aggressive geese on my grass. Otherwise they donsound good, as do ducks.

Regarding turkeys, would domestics be at risk of disease from the wandering flocks of wild turkeys that cross our property?

I have a plan with a hole in it. This spring I plan to put in an elderberry orchard. My idea is to also plant nitrogen fixers between the rows, deep mulch (wood chips?) under the trees, chickens and guineasfree range, bees everywhere, mushrooms in the wood chips, mushroom logs also under some trees, comfrey and other nutrient scavengers scattered around, medicinal herbs along the fences, etc.

What I'm missing is an animal to graze between the rows. From what I'm reading, sheep like elderberry leaves, so mi idea of them acting as lawn mowers is now in question. Goats don't like it as much, but goats are problematic in other ways. We are not ready for large stock yet, so cows, horses aren't an option.

Does anyone know if sheep would really be a problem? Would they eat back the bushes or just nibble on them?

Any other ideas for grazers that mow and fertilize and that would not ruin the bushes?

No experience with this problem, specifically, but I would overseed with red clover, purple beach, alfalfa, or all three to shade it out and to increase nitrogen. Do save some for the medicine cabinet, though, and some for the compost pile.

First of all, should I cross-post this in the Pasture forum?

I want to put my elderberry orchard to multiple uses. Bees, chickens... What about Fraser's?  Is there a particular animal that does well for grazing *under* the trees without really attacking the leaves and branches? I want the fruit and flowers for my family and guests, not to ne used as forage.

Also, what about pigs?

P.s. > I'm thinking of more of a rotational / mob grazing system, not a constant presence of animals in the orchard.