Eileen Kirkland

I really appreciate this thread! I'm considering buying land again. Forgive a foolish question please: do you ever consider starting your food forest in the scrubby/wooded area rather than on the cleared land? (As in consider the cleared part phase 2 when thinning of the scrub can happen to shift some biomass?).

I currently live in Sant Cugat del Vallès, near the Collserola preserve. I've had a few years to take my walks in the frequently-cleared firebreak zone near the edge of town. The dry season is DRY (but still wetter than Málaga I'm sure). Lots of interesting plants to observe when there's any precipitation, but everything but the broom looks desperate for months.

What I imagine trying to do is a kind of succession of edibles and support where anything makes shade already. The land I'm considering is actually in Tarragona, any details would be speculative, but I'm picturing trying to use mulberry and fig as the main shade pioneers and winter seeding 'pasture' areas with sorghum, clover, white pepper, mustard, plantain, etc.

I'd be an absentee in the harshest seasons and a camper in the moderate ones (My husband's family summers in Cubelles), visiting with poultry but not expecting them to manage year-round.

I'm from the deliciously damp American Pacífic Northwest so I'm very much a fish out of water (but I have lived in/near Barcelona the last eleven years).

The mostly-flat, cleared plots always appeal to me more when looking at land. (I'm very pro-sheep but probably not rich enough for a flock), but I'm getting the impression that uncleared land from scratch might be less miserable.

Apricot, almonds, pomegranate, garlic, onions and beans would seem a great victory to me. Herbs and flowers, too. Do the pines, etc. prevent a succession plan? I appreciate your insights before I make my (admittedly hobby) purchase. I'm outgrowing my balcony! Thanks.

Lorinne Anderson wrote:I love this thread! It hurts my heart that most of the kids I deal with have never so much as climbed a tree, or own rain boots/gear...

I think the key for kids is to remove the "dirty" taboo. Kids NEED to lie on the ground, watch ants at work; ponder a slug or snail from the creatures perspective; dig in the dirt, playing with worms and beetles. They need to beachcomb, find shells, rocks, sea glass. They need to climb trees, get sticky with sap, pick strawberries or cherry tomato's they watched grow from sprout to bud, to flower to fruit; watch the bee's and hummimgbirds pollinate; see how water perks up a drooping plant.

Stuff peanut butter into a pinecone, roll in birdseed and watch the birds enjoy. Build or install proper bird houses. Go on quests to FIND bird nests and or other animal/insect homes... Show that all living things need food, water and shelter, just like them! Show them that EVERYTHING has a life and a purpose (even those we don't like or are afraid of). Share the wonder of a spiders Web hung with water droplets; or watch one encase a bug for dinner later.  Seek the rainbow on a sunny day, dampened by a rain shower. Find shapes in cloud formations (Look, a duck!); watch the stars; stay up late, lay down on the ground, snuggled up in blankets during meteor showers...

LET THEM COLLECT STICKS, SHELLS, ROCKS, SHED ANTLERS, FOUND BONES and the like. Use them for art projects, mobiles, windchimes...let them "weave" with flexible green sticks, then see how they harden as they dry.

To me it is all about experiences, experiments, and just plain silliness sometimes. As long as it is FUN, the "learning" of empathy will naturally and spontaneously occur as the various cycles of life unwind, and the rest of nature just carries on about her business.

But most of all kids need good rain/snow/hiking boots so they can squelch in mud and splash in puddles; good outdoor gear so they are comfortable, not cold or wet. Then turn them loose, be it a back yard, a park, or ANY outdoor environment, let them play, explore, and GET DIRTY!

Yes! We wore 'play clothes' nearly all of the time growing up and when I came home filthy my mom would say, "You look like you had fun!" I've got to admit that I find this legacy harder to pass on in urban Spain than I did in rural Washington State. We've chosen to live near a nature preserve so we get our chance to appreciation capital N Nature, but I think our balcony projects are key, too. I'd love to see more kids growing seeds from their kitchen scraps, having a worm bin or compost bin, keeping quail or rabbits. I try to do lots of my noticing out loud, the plant that's come up in the cracks, the mushrooms on the stump...we celebrate every butterfly and talk about leaf litter and animal scat. Sometimes I let myself have a slightly melodramatic moment about how we are the chosen ones here to see this new butterfly or this plant's first leaves. Be in the now.

Hi Daniel,

We haven't purchased property. I had one I was serious about but it was sold to a neighbor instead.

This year an historically bad drought approaches so perhaps there will be more for sale, but I haven't had much success using the idealista.com site. It's a good opportunity to see what is listed, but it's disheartening overall because research and conducting the sale definitely should involve a local agent. Initial inquiries by my Catalan husband often reveal errors or what may be deliberate misinformation.

Much of the best agricultural land in Spain is held by aristocratic people paid EU subsidies to not farm it, but be 'ready' for specific uses. I still watch for listings but for now am mostly just trying to learn local plants, keep quail and worms, compost with dedication and enjoy a purple palate in my spring garden. I still think all of the time about orchards, sheep and regenerative agriculture but at the moment am very tied to my husbands's job location and stability for kids in primary school in Sant Cugat del Valles (about 40 minutes by train from Barcelona).

I do wish you luck! Be sure to share when you find your place.
Eileen

I'm looking at a property with about six acres cleared to nearly flat arable dry land with a small stream running north to south through the middle of it for passive watering. It also has about four acres of pines at its margins. If we buy it, my long term plan will be a mixed herbal ley with deep rooting dry climate favorites like chickory, cocksfoot, and perennial ryes to establish sheep pasture. Off grid-electric fencing ideally.

I'd also like to put in orchard trees like apricot, almond, fig, mullberry, apple, pomegranate, lemon...ideally they'll get a significant head start on the sheep. I'm trying to figure out the mojo on placement and which should be guilded together or kept separate. My husband has an allergy to olive pollen so that's the only one to definitely leave out of the mix.

Can I please also have your opinons/research on which trees should get priority for placement closest to the stream? Like, is there a known hierarchy for which mediterranean climate crop trees need the best proximity to water? My gut says apples and figs would be thirstiest (and apples might not really belong) but I think that the orchard would be apricot heavy since those are harvested in the months we're most likely to be able to be at the property if we get it. My twins are 9 and I'm imagining retiring/summering in/near one of the tiny towns with fewer than 100 residents once the kids are into higher education. If I start the trees soon that timing should work nicely :)

I like to use up quail eggs as waffles.

About 35g flour per egg with a splash of milk and sprinkle of cinnamon. I mix flours because the  whole wheat flour from the grocery store Spain comes over-leavened and so cut in half with unleavened spelt flour. (That works well for my wafflemaker, which opens on the side away from the hinge if they rise to much and cooks very unevenly. In yours, who knows?)

I use sprayable olive oil and make our batter sugarless, but let my kids spread a little Nutella/Nocilla on them. Kudos to the marketing genius who normalized having ready-made chocolate frosting hanging out in the cupboard as a 'spread.' In the interest of marital harmony I do not fight this at all. Nocilla 'the Spanish version' gets extra credit for coming in jars that can be used as pretty nice-looking glasses when empty. Maple syrup is hard to find here and overpriced/of poor grade when you do. I top with fruit.

OR

For a twist I like to make veg waffles with a puree of butternut squash, carrot, onion and garlic seasoned with cumin. I put York ham and Emmental cheese inside on top while still warm and fold it to eat like a sandwich. Basically it goes soup for dinner then butternut qwaffles for breakfast with the leftovers. Various Mexican-style taco/burrito spices are good too but usually overly salty when from storebought packets, so I've gone to cumin as the flavor I like best from the mixes.

Alas, no one else in my family will eat this, but I'm convinced it would be a winning food truck idea in the American Pacific Northwest ;)

Lean into PEX, not PEP. Three BB that I consider finished weren't approved and it took the wind out of my sails. I'm still experimenting with things, but documenting it for this site isn't a priority. I thought it would be a fun thing to do with my kids, but to be honest the juice isn't worth the squeeze as it stands. Get me excited with community feeling, not gurus and gatekeepers.

John asks if I eat any of the quail

No. I don't. They would make such a relatively small meal that it hasn't been worth upsetting my kids over it. My 8yo twins refer to the quail as their sisters.

Some would say that it toughens children up for the reality of meat eating...but that's how I became a vegetarian at age ten, when a cow that had been kept with our horse was slaughtered. That lasted seven years until I summered with a family in Costa Rica and realized just how disrespectful it would be to decline what my host family served. I have an uphill journey going already with one child who already eats in a very limited way due to sensory sensitivities, so I haven't rocked this particular boat.

My father's family had a chicken hatchery business and at one point as a child it was his job to snap the necks of the tiny roos (because you can feather-sex /sort chickens young for some breeds). It was pretty much a life-long bad memory for him. (With experience you might actually be able to sex sort quail by behavior, basically a noisy call even when very young, but they mature so relatively fast that feeding them a couple of extra weeks to be sure seems worth it to rule out mistakes.)

I have released a few roos to probably be eaten in a nearby wilderness area, but I gave them a fighting chance by choosing an oak tree in a grassy field near a shallow stream. They are endemic to my area, so although frowned upon that was what made sense at the time. I kept one and hatched one more. They are tolerably quiet since one is clearly senior and the backup is junior, but too many do make a racket.

There's a fellow named Chris who has a YT channel Slightly Rednecked who is pretty down to earth and talks about raising them to feed his family. I don't think many roos at his place pass eight weeks in age. Coturnix Corner or others can teach you how to dispatch them swiftly with sharp scissors. I've even seen someone who converted an Airstream to be her clean butchering area. Sorry I didn't bookmark that video. She had a cool set up somewhere in the American Northeeast, I think.

I don't think I'll reach any big scale. The fertility of eggs declines after about six months although they can lay for a few years. Hatching a couple of times a year for fun and to replenish breeding stock is the extent of my ambition unless we buy land here. My husband is more tolerant than enthusiastic.  I keep him sweetened up with a dish I call the quail patron's breakfast.

I do think they're wonderful and hope more people give them a try. Good luck in all your endeavors, Eileen

Circa 2011 I made this one as an homage to Seattle's Green Lake, a place ideal for spotting dogs being walked and neighborhood cats hanging out. Those in the know might find the bunny corner, two 'tennis courts', turtles and ducks represented in their good spots. It could be better balanced, but I'm still proud of it since I see the asymmetrical lake in it, a path in warm colors, etc. Scrappy is fun.

Thank you. I like Geoff Lawton's videos a lot. -especially greening the dessert and his glee in showing how his place handles storm water.

I'd like to see permaculture more away from the guru and gatekeeping mindset. Even here I shook my head when 'I disqualified' myself by cleaning grease from my cast iron with a conventional paper towel after showing a fried egg not sticking. Or eggs my birds laid that 'didn't count' because in the photo they were outside the cage. Badges are fun but I guess I'm just not that desperate for approval. (They even turned down my mason bee house - which worked by the way!)

If I could be an 'influencer' I would love to get everybody planting the seeds from their kitchen scraps. Even if they don't produce it's just such a happy little change.

I hope you're finding fulfilment where you can

Pictures of compost sifting. Most-mature material gets wet down and will finish in this metal bucket. Chunkiest box gets new material added to it. Sifted box waits it's turn for the bucket. (Quail get to play in that one, too.) Time to water plants!