Prevention and treatment for novel coronavirus COVID 19

Julie Reed wrote:

Urine pH. On my test strips it needs to be very very dark for an hour.  

But a virus gets into your respiratory system and then into the blood. Urine is ‘downstream’ of that part of your system. I’m confused about how changing the pH of your urine would help kill off a virus that’s ‘upstream’ in the blood. What am I missing?

The urine numbers show the general alkalinity of the whole body. Acid loving viruses are weakened or killed, by what to them is a toxic environment. When the urine pH is elevated, it means the whole body is too, for a bit, until the kidneys can clear out the excess. An alkaline body has a lot of positive effects on the immune system, as well as waste removal systems, so your body can work more effectively to clear out the dead or weakened viruses.

This whole bit comes off alt-med flu treatment with baking soda. Influenza is also an acid loving virus, and baking soda has been used for years in this way on it. CV has been tested and was found to be an acid loving one too, so it's very likely to have the same effects. Look up baking soda and the flu for more information on it.

It's non-toxic, and easy and cheap. To me it's definitely worth trying, especially for people who won't do anything that takes too much effort, or herbs they don't have. Most people have a box of baking soda around, in their freezer if nothing else, that's why a lot of us are trying to spread this. Permies people tend to be willing to do other things, and to eat more veggies, so they run a more alkaline body than people who eat the Standard American diet, or worse. That's why I said something like "if you test your pH" I know a lot of permies do. But pH is just a reflection of what goes on in the whole body, and it doesn't stay elevated long, because your body corrects it back to it's normal state.  

That’s so funny Dianne, I’ve been spring cleaning and dusting, and when I sneeze I think ‘coronavirus! We’re all gonna die!’ And then that song naturally pops into my head. Hard to be an aging hippie...

Thanks Pearl! I’ve never even thought about testing my pH. I eat a high -mostly home grown- veggie diet, salmon, and mostly game meat or local free range chicken/pork and almost no processed food or white sugar/flour, so I don’t really worry about it and rarely get sick. That tells me my system is doing its job. I’ve heard about baking soda for heartburn but I don’t suffer from that either, so this is the first I’ve read about baking soda to adjust pH. Guess I should look it up, what you’re saying makes sense.

It appears that Chloroquine is effective at treating this Covid-19 virus.

Chloroquine is the man made synthetic version of quinine.  Qaunine has been used since the 1600's to treat malaria and also used as an antispasmodic for muscle spasms.  The "tonic" in "Gin and Tonic" is based on quinine, the levels of quinine in the tonic now is quite minor and would not be of medicinal value anymore.

Bringing quinine into the US is banned but interestingly you can apparently buy Cinchona bark on Ebay which is what you make old fashioned quinine from.  I found it on Ebay ten pounds of bark for $35.00, I can't remember if there was a shipping cost or not.

I would add the caveat that quinine can kill you either from overdose or uncommonly from allergic reaction. It's anyone's guess exactly how much bark one would powder and make into a tea to protect one from malaria, deal with muscle spasms or fight off Covid-19.  But it would appear from the results reported in France, China and South Korea that Chloroquine (synthetic quinine) is effective in treating Covid-19....

There is no cure for COVID-19 at the moment but what can you do is eat anything that helps your immune system since your immune system will be the one fighting the virus. And more importantly, just stay home as much as possible so that you won't get the virus. Keep safe everyone.

Rex Moseley wrote:From Andrew Weil on integrative medicine and Coronavirus

To Avoid:
• Sambucus nigra (Elderberry)
• Vitamin D

Seeing Vit D on Weils’ list confuses me.  I’ve seen elderberry (which I adore) on others’ lists, so no surprise, but...

Really not sure about removing D from my daily protocol.  Hard to know...

Everyone, be well.  Great thread!

I'm not familiar with elderberry, but Weil's advice regarding vitamin D confuses me too and seems at odds with other knowledge. Dr. Chris Centeno, normally focused on regenerative medicine, has shifted his blog to COVID-19 topics, and the latest post (https://regenexx.com/blog/coronavirus-episode-11-should-you-be-taking-your-vitamin-d/) is specifically on vitamin D.

Has the concept of VIRAL LOAD been discussed yet?

It seems that the initial dose of the virus you are exposed to is a vital factor in how well your immune system copes with it.

This was recently shared by Dhushyanthan Surendra Kumar, Assitant Medical Director at Thames Valley Air Ambulance, Director of Clinical audit at TARN - Trauma Audit and Research Network and Flight Doctor at Thames Valley Air Ambulance

Why do we need to shut places where people group?

Remember this: VIRAL LOAD

There will be a lot about this. Why is it important?

With this virus, the amount of virus in your blood at first infection directly relates to the severity of the illness you will suffer. This isn’t unusual - HIV management is all about reducing viral load to keep people alive longer. BUT it’s very important in COVID-19.

So if you are in, say, a pub or religious building or entertainment venue with 200 people and a large number don’t have symptoms but are shedding, you are breathing in lots of droplets per minute and absorbing a high load of the virus. In a crowded space. They become ill over the next 48 hours. You then three days later wonder why you can’t breathe and end up in hospital. You’d decided because you were young and healthy it wasn’t going to be a problem. Wrong.

Fortunately but unfortunately because the elderly are isolating quite well, the initial UK data suggests that all age groups above 20 are almost equally represented in ITUs in England. Most of the cases are in London but the wave is moving outwards.

This means that being under 60 and fit and well doesn’t seem to be as protective as we thought. Why? Viral load.

This may be skewed simply by the fact that too many Londoners didn’t do as asked and congregated in large groups in confined spaces and got a large initial viral load. They then went home and infected their wider families. Which is why, as London is overwhelmed, we need to shut everything down to save the rest of the UK. We are a week at most behind London.

Our sympathies go out to the families affected in London and the critical care teams battling right now to save as many as they can.

If I sit with one person and catch this virus, I get a small viral load. My immune system will start to fight it and by the time the virus starts replicating, I’m ready to kill it.

No medicines will help this process meaningfully hence there is no “cure” for this virus. All we can do is support you with a ventilator and hope your immune system can catch up fast enough.

If I sit in the same room with six people, all shedding I get six times the initial dose. The rise in viral load is faster than my immune system can cope with and it is overrun. I then become critically ill and need me (or someone of my specialty) to fix it instead of just being at home and being ok in the end.

THIS BIT IS IMPORTANT:

If you are a large family group, remember that by being ill and in the same room, you will make each other ill or “more ill”. If you get sick, isolate just yourself to one room and stay there. Don’t all sit in one room coughing. You will increase the viral load for all of you, reducing your survival rate.

A family of six people may produce double the droplets of a family of three in the same space. Maths is important.

If one of you is symptomatic, assume you are all shedding and make sure you keep some space.

Parents are getting it from their kids because no one is going to stop comforting their child (nor should they) so the parent gets a big hit as well as the child. I don’t think that can be helped.

REMEMBER: THINK ABOUT VIRAL LOAD

It could save your life or your child’s.

Coventry and Warwickshire - it’s up to you now. We are preparing for the worst but we are hoping for the best from you. Please help us to help you. Stay home and take this seriously now before we need the army on the streets to remind you. Yes I’m serious.

Burra Maluca wrote:Has the concept of VIRAL LOAD been discussed yet?

I just came to this thread to post this :D

On a practical note, it changes how people within families should behave. The first person to get it should isolate themselves as much as possible. Reducing the quantity of initial virus exposure is likely to reduce the symptoms of the rest of the family when they do get it - their immune system will have had longer to respond before symptoms get severe.

I made a separate thread about here because I thought it was so important, and also so it could be discussed without cluttering this one up too much.

I appreciate you highlighting this Burra! Because it is really a double whammy. I figured out years ago that whenever I went to a movie (not often) I usually ended up with some sort of crud. Being pretty healthy, I kicked it within a day or two, but we tried to go at odd times like late Sunday night when far fewer people were in the audience. I really enjoy live theater (plays, concerts) and that’s harder to find low attendance performances. I don’t like crowds anyway, and I always thought about the mathematical odds of more/less people, each of whom potentially had some sort of crud, but never thought about this concept of viral load! It makes so much more sense to me now about why I got sick, because I would always wonder- ‘gee, I’m really healthy, why do I catch this crud so easily?’. The crud gangs up on a person! (Finally a redeeming factor for being an introvert! 😂)

The cure for an ear worm (the term for a song that's stuck in your head) is to learn the whole song. That's they only way I've ever been able to get rid of them.

As to the new virus, my strategy is avoidance.

Michael Cox wrote:

Burra Maluca wrote:Has the concept of VIRAL LOAD been discussed yet?

On a practical note, it changes how people within families should behave. The first person to get it should isolate themselves as much as possible.

But isn't this what most people do whenever they're sick with a cough and fever, especially when achiness is also a symptom? The COVID-19 virus seems especially contagious, at least at this time, but unless you get a case serious enough to need hospitalization the treatment doesn't seem to be different from influenza care. A family member caring for the sick one needs to be very careful with sanitation, but I don't know what other behavior change is even possible.

On a lighter note:

Forget all those artificial supplements, herbal teas, liniments, potions, balms, suppository’s, jar of creams, leeches and other creatures!

What you’all need is good old VEGEMITE – it’s been the food of choice to treat everything from hangovers to hangnails in Australia since the 1920’s – just ask Tom Hanks & Co.

So, to avoid the rush (like that unfortunate toilet paper incident) suggest an urgent online purchase before stock dwindles. Don’t fall for other cheap imitations from the UK, New Zealand, Germany or Switzerland. (We don’t support Alibaba!)

REMEMBER: it’s meant to be taken ‘internally’ - applied to buttered toast VERY, VERY, VERY THINLY.

(A Vegemite & Cheese Scroll is pure medicine wrapped in pastry!)

F Agricola wrote:
What you’all need is good old VEGEMITE

Haha, I don't think that is a viable option for non-Aussies! I will stick to Kimchi instead...

With regards to virus load:
There is a well-known phenomenon called the "Wiesngrippe" (Oktoberfest flu). You are in a huge tent with thousands of people, all sweating and dancing close to you (some get even closer...). Add to that that you might take a bit too much beer and get a bit too little sleep and you have perfect conditions to spread any virus.
Here around Munich you usually go to the Oktoberfest with your company so the day(s) following the outing make for a less productive staff!

If the virus sticks around any longer it would be totally insane to hold the Oktoberfest as usual. As I have not gone for years now I wouldn't lament it. I can do without the hoards and the vomit in the trains.

arizona man dies wife in critical condition trying to ward off virus with chloroquine
thought I'd share this news story about it

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/man-dies-after-ingesting-chloroquine-attempt-prevent-coronavirus-n1167166

bruce Fine wrote:arizona man dies wife in critical condition trying to ward off virus with chloroquine
thought I'd share this news story about it

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/man-dies-after-ingesting-chloroquine-attempt-prevent-coronavirus-n1167166

In fairness, they drank fish tank cleaner.  Who knows what else is fixed in with that, or what possible dosage they consumed?  I read a story about 3 people that overdosed on real chloroquine phosphate (as opposed to fish tank cleaner) recently as well.  A dose as small as 2 grams can kill.  It's also well known that chloroquine phosphate is the more toxic version of chloroquine than hydroxychloroquine, which is the one that most people are getting treated with for coronavirus.

bruce Fine wrote:arizona man dies wife in critical condition trying to ward off virus with chloroquine
thought I'd share this news story about it

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/man-dies-after-ingesting-chloroquine-attempt-prevent-coronavirus-n1167166

It should be noted the couple used the fish treatment version of chloroquine, not the medical version that is prescribed for Lupus. That said, a number of deaths in Nigeria have been attributed to individuals self medicating with the medical version of chloroquine. The couple used a forgotten bottle of chloroquine used to treat their koi fish. Note that patients prescribed chloroquine are experiencing shortages due to it being touted as a preventative cure-all for Coronavirus.

At the start of COVID, a few places including NPR, reported that diarrhoea is a symptom.  (we found out later that it's an extremely rare symptom - so unusual that it's off the diagnostic list).  From there we had panic buying of toilet paper.

We have a few anecdotal reports that this one drug works with extreme cases of COVID.  So we see governments panic buying it but there isn't enough to say that it definitely works for all people.  https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-malaria-medication-1.5507589

I could see it being useful for C-storm symptoms in extreme cases, but I don't know if it would be of any help for mild cases or to prevent the C-storm.  They are starting tests to see if it can do miracles, but it also has some serious side effects, so it might not be worth the risk.

I learned today that, yes, much like a lot of illnesses - if your immune system fights off once, then you are now immune.

Further, this is the case that if you get just mild symptoms.  So if you bolster your immune system such that your symptoms never become severe, then you won't get it worse later.  

That said, there have been some reports of people recovering from coronavirus and getting it again.  It is possible that they were not yet fully recovered or a collection of other explanations.  I know that here at my place we have five people and each person has a different story.  But it does seem to be a roller coaster - you will feel so much better that you go back to a normal life only to be sicker than before the next day.  This thing lasts a LONG time!



All that said ...  The routine I described above for myself is still working and I am still the same.   Two or three times a day I hit the fire cider (and other stuff) and chase it off.   But I'm still chasing it off.  I guess if I stick to it for another few weeks it will finally be gone.

paul wheaton wrote:  It is possible that they were not yet fully recovered or a collection of other explanations.

Yeah, so many variables here.  Even as SARS-CoV2 (COVID-19) is *not* influenza, the influenza virus *can* be a useful paradigm here.  Thus, and without having time just now to research it further, ever since flu vaccines have been made and some time before that, it's been a frustration that each new season often brings a 'reassorted' influenza.....a mutant or variant that is not controlled, or at least well-controlled, by our immune systems that just the previous season were 'primed' by an infection.  So our immune systems were on the look out....for LAST YEAR'S  influenza virus.  And if this year's influenza is different enough in the right regions of the virus, our immune systems will not "see" it properly and will not defend our bodies against it.

There is only information now coming in on SARS-CoV2 to begin to study similar phenomena.  It is already known from the genome sequence of SARS-CoV2 that there are different 'clades'......different lineages on the SARS-CoV2 'family tree'.....that point to variation present in the virus either originating back to the source of the pandemic and/or having arisen along the way.  There may be certain clades that are more aggressive in the body than others, but I've not seen anything published yet in this regard.  But as well to the point of Paul's observations, there can be many other viruses (non-SARS-CoV2) that might be co-morbid with SARS-CoV2...and causing *some* of the 'set-backs' that some have experienced.  Simply observing within a circle of friends over the past 10 years, all of us in our 50's, we've mostly shared experiences of persistence coughs in the winter months that wax and wane in their impact on our daily routines.  Might some of these, whatever their cause or origins, be arising even in parallel to our COVID-19 episodes?  Additionally, since it's known that, even within a single person, different variants or strains of a single virus species can arise and/or co-exist, might some of the relapse situations be either the acquisition of a different SARS-CoV2 strain and/or the de novo, spontaneous generation of a variant in our own body that is now "new" to our immune system.  

All scenarios are possible....some, after much analysis of a new pathogen, will be more likely than others after we get to know the beast a bit better.  Still early times in the confrontation.

paul wheaton wrote:

But it does seem to be a roller coaster - you will feel so much better that you go back to a normal life only to be sicker than before the next day.  This thing lasts a LONG time!

I think I'd like to highlight this comment because I've heard it elsewhere particularly related to the younger 25 to 50 year olds. The second round can be dangerously bad. I think it may be important to both keep up the immune boosters that are working for you after you appear to get better, and to increase your activity level slowly with lots of breaks, plenty of rest, and lots of fresh air. When I worked with injured people 30+ years ago, I'd tell them to start a timer for 5 min the first time they did something they hadn't been doing - vacuuming for an example - and then take at least a 10 min break of something lighter before doing another 5 min. The people who at least more or less followed that plan as frustrating as it is, had less tendency to over-do it, re-injure the body, and end up further behind rather than further ahead. With a bad virus, I suspect the same mind-set might help.

+1 on that.

I am on what appears to be the 10th day of this, and it's the first day I've made it past lunchtime without needing a nap (not like hm, a nap would be nice, but "OMFG I've been hit with a sandbag and I literally cannot stay vertical one more minute". The only thing I can compare it to is when I had mono in college). I'm usually super active, exercise every day, but I just spent a good 6 days treading between my office chair and my bed, some days even trying to crochet was too exhausting.
It started with sore throat, mild fever, then stronger fever, and extreme exhaustion and brain fog. No respiratory nothing, thank goodness. Yesterday was a bit better, today even more so.
Here we are only testing severe cases, so I won't know for sure, but we are staying here now for 7 more days after all symptoms are totally gone just in case (my husband and I-- he is fine, but he normally has no sense of smell or taste so who knows if he had those signs. We were both at the same event where there was a feverish, sick child, so he was exposed just as much as I was). I`m hoping that day with no more symptoms is today.

(for the record, we are eating lots of fermented food, lots of soup, drinking lots of herb tea with plants like lemon balm, ginger, and hibiscus, and I have been gargling with betadine iodine gargle since the very first tickle in my throat)

Paul, I'm glad to hear that you're keeping the nasty bug at bay. It's helpful to know what works to keep it from getting deeper into the body.

The long recovery and ease of relapse reminds me of a flu-type bug (probably a corona-type also since many respiratory viruses are) that was going around in 1990. Really bad flu symptoms with a tendency to relapse MUCH worse if the person who had it didn't rest and completely recover. I had it and being the type of person I am (part time idiot apparently), started doing too much too soon and started getting a massive relapse. Had to intervene with pharmaceuticals to keep from getting pneumonia. Overall, it took far longer to recover than if I'd just rested enough the first time around.

This is a great reminder to rest and recover fully even though it's spring and the need to seed the garden is strong.

My go to 'herb' when I dont feel well is chaga.   I make a tea of this and drink lots of it.  If chaga gows near you, check it out.  It can be pricey to buy, but can be locally abundant for a sustainable harvest.  
I know that my sleep can be interupted more often when I am sick, so I try to increase my available sleep time, by going to bed earlier.

Increase drinking of good quality water.

Apart from that, I reduce my eating, and focus on eliminating unhealthy or less healthy food options.  Eating too much, as many people do, is hard on the body, and generally forces the body into an inflamed state.  By eating healthy and eating slightly smaller meals, your body will be able to digetst more efficiently and then assimilate more efficiently as well.

In order to facilitate a strong immune system, and better breathing, I steam my sinuses,  

Generally steaming breaks up stuff in your sinuses but it can also benefit your lungs greatly.  

Here's a doctor explaining and demonstrating her steaming method when she has a cold.

I personally do a nasal irrigation in between steaming rounds.  Here is a doctor explaining nasal irriagation.

and Last, but certainly not least I follow my respiratory cleansing with a guided Wim Hof breathing session.  

With these easy protocols, I have been able to drasticly shorten the severity and duration of cold and flu.  

I learned today that, yes, much like a lot of illnesses - if your immune system fights off once, then you are now immune.

I’ve been trying to find something conclusive to that effect. I read a NY Times article that sounded promising but nothing concrete, just speculation. Was this info from the CDC?

Someone mentioned, and I can't find where I read it, but this virus is mutating fast enough that people may be able to be reinfected by it, even after they have recovered from it, as the second infection might be from another very similar but different strain.  

I'll try to find that information, but we should remember always that we know very little about this virus and that even if I find that article, that it is anecdotal.  

It might not be possible either.  I remember that what I read was that they were not sure.  

I think we should not make any assumptions either way.

I always say viruses remind me of fleas. They like to move around instead of leaving. Glad to hear you are weathering this and so are others. So difficult to be patient. Good explanations and ideas! Thanks for posting.

Not to belittle anyone who is sick and with symptoms, but unless you are tested and confirmed positive for coronavirus, one cannot say that they have it. The vast majority of people showing symptoms associated with coronavirus actually don't have it. There are plenty of other winter illnesses that mimic it. Case in point........as of this past Thursday Hawaii has tested 5034 people, all of whom were showing coronavirus-like symptoms. Of these 5034, only 106 were positive for coronavirus. So that's around only 2% of the sick people actually have it.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but my medical training forces me to remind people that you really need a test to say that you have it.

Moderators, if you find this post offensive, be my guest and remove it. I won't mind.

It's a really good point, Su, and a real problem where testing is unavailable or restricted.

Our oxygen thing (Blood Oxygen Saturation Monitor) arrived:


https://amzn.to/2xtBXUA

So we all got a chance to take it for a ride.  And then try to change our breathing rate to watch it change.  

We tested fred first:  93.  Between Dr. Google and several calls to different healthcare folks we know, we learned that this is "edge" but to be expected with coronavirus.  In the end we came to the conclusion that 90 or below is the time to go to the hospital.  93 is "go get it checked out when the hospital isn't busy".   One nurse said that at 93 she would take her daughter in, but she wouldn't take herself in until it hit 90.  

Later tests with fred got lots of results between 93 and 97.  

I currently hold the high score of 99 and the low score of 92.  

Su Ba wrote:Not to belittle anyone who is sick and with symptoms, but unless you are tested and confirmed positive for coronavirus, one cannot say that they have it. The vast majority of people showing symptoms associated with coronavirus actually don't have it. There are plenty of other winter illnesses that mimic it. Case in point........as of this past Thursday Hawaii has tested 5034 people, all of whom were showing coronavirus-like symptoms. Of these 5034, only 106 were positive for coronavirus. So that's around only 2% of the sick people actually have it.  

Fred got the symptoms.  And when he called about getting tested they were clearly so disorganized that they basically told him to go away.  But the state proudly reported "zero cases".  

About a week later when he is still sick, he tried again.  It sounds like there were five different questioning sessions that he went through just to get the test.   Overall, from the first call until the actual test, the whole process took about six hours.  The results came back several days later to say "negative."  The day after the test, we learned that the whole state was treating the test like gold - only a very few people would be tested at all.  Most people were being denied the test.  

So it seems that if you think you have it, take the steps for self quarantine and ride it out - unless you need hospitalization, then come in.  

So, everything about this appears to match.  The group of us now have had long conversations about "is it or isn't it?"  In the end, we decided to just go with "we have it until we can learn otherwise."  

Frankly, I am now pretty suspicious of the tests.  And even more suspicious of the reporting of the results.  It just seems like there is some super fishy going on and, frankly, I don't want to get involved in all the fishy.  

I feel like the fishy-folk want us to stay home and NOT get tested.   They demand that we call what we have to be the "bad stuff" when it suits them and "not the bad stuff" when it suits them.  We are not medical professionals and we are not in a hospital and we are being required to deal with it.  So we make the best of it.  

I have heard a rumor than when a woman gets a pregnancy test kit, she usually buys three.  Further, those test kits have been optimized for decades to be super accurate.

The symptoms match.  And even if we had "proper" tests, there are probabilities on top of probabilities.  I suppose if I was some sort of super celebrity, I would have been tested eight times by now.  But I'm not.  So zero tests for me - I am not sick enough, nor important enough.

We are clearly sick.  The symptoms match.  We have not made our decision lightly.  We are riding this out as coronavirus.   Maybe in two months we can get tested and we can be told "you had it" or "you have never had it".  Until then, we make the best of it.

Paul, et al, you are making a very wise decision to treat your illness as though it is coronavirus!!! And I very much agree with you that the State governments in general are being overly selective in who they test. Personally I find this to be insane. Without testing, this novel virus cannot be contained at all. We are seeing this all too well right now.

Initially when the outbreak started, the State of Hawaii kept sending out robocall messages that we shouldn't panic because there were no cases of coronavirus in the State. I could only cringe, roll my eyes, and shake with frustration that of course you idiots, Hawaii had no tests (zero) and thus couldn't test anyone, and therefore there were no known cases. Of course there was no known coronavirus! Egads! That didn't mean that there were no cases. Once the State got tests, like you are experiencing in Montana, the State was extremely stingy with them. Hardly anyone got tested. As a result, reported coronavirus cases were extremely artificially low. The artificially low numbers ultimately resulted in the virus escaping into the general permies. The only thing that is saving Hawaii is that we have a very experienced medical doctor as our Lieutenant Governor, and he is quite vocal and pushy when it comes to this epidemic. If the Governor had listened to him earlier, Hawaii wouldn't have coronavirus problems right now.

The State of Hawaii continues to be very stingy with testing, but a private firm has been conducting testing via pop-up sites around the State. The State has tested only a couple hundred persons, while the private firm had done thousands. Our State governments are doing a crappy job.

Basically, if someone feels sick, they should be tested. But that's not going to happen in some states, like Montana. Then you should treat the person as though they actually have it by treating the symptoms, practicing good epidemic protocols, and practicing good overall health measures. The sick person cannot claim to have coronavirus, but he surely can say that he has coronavirus-like symptoms. But with no test, he cannot be sure. Yes, it's just a medical technicality, but it's one that could cause panic. Here in Hawaii we have actually seen violence result from the panic caused when someone falsely assumed that another had the virus. It happens because people can be stupid on top of being frightened. We have had people being chased, rocks thrown at them, verbal abuse, and in some cases, attempts to hit people with moving cars. It's nuts.

Paul, I sincerely hope you and Fred keep doing ok. Most people with this virus, as with most winter viruses, successfully medicate symptoms at home. Regretfully with an epidemic, most of us are forced to self treat because our medical system is overwhelmed. Regardless of a test or not, relating your & Fred's experiences may very well help hundreds of others, if not thousands, if not tens of thousands.

I wish you both a recovery from your illness.

Su Ba,

Given all of the details we have at the moment, I think we are all here (at my place) agreed that for the four of us, it is a 96% chance that it is coronavirus.   When we have recovered, we could re-explore the idea that it was something else.  

At the same time, this thread is for discussion of prevention and treatment according to the standards of this permaculture community.  I choose to share what we have learned in the hopes that this information could be of use to others.  

Granted, a person could choose to die rather than try the things listed here because I have not had the formal test.  That is their own choice.  So I choose to share for those people that will find value in what I share.  I think that I have fully qualified how and why I am convinced it is, indeed, coronavirus.   In the meantime, people are getting formally tested and the qualifications that come with the test are being thrown out.  And the reporting of the results is being so severely skewed as to make most of the numbers utterly worthless - yet people that would dismiss my qualified info would embrace the skewed information as complete and utter fact.  



I think I have some freakishly important information to share.  



I am at risk of death due to my age and being fat.  People younger and more fit than I have died of it.  

I think the things I am doing are keeping the worst of it at bay.   I am sick.   I feel it in my lungs.   But my permaculture choices are, I believe, keeping it from being worse.   The sample set is too small and we have a lack of a "control paul" but at this point the information is a bit dodgy and I think some people will welcome this anecdotal evidence.  Hell, this anecdotal evidence could end up as the foundation of something a bit more formal.



So I choose to share.  And I encourage people to make their own choices.




Frankly, I am glad for this thread.   I think there is a lot of really excellent information here.   Information which I think may have helped me dodge more severe symptoms.  May have even saved me and the others from getting worse or even dying.  

I hope that in this thread we will keep trying to help each other with whatever information we can come up with - and report on what seems to be working for each person.  

And most of all:  considering all-the-wackadoodle-things ...   I think it is fair for somebody that matches the symptoms to say "I have it and here is what I am doing about it."    And if you choose to believe that they do not have it, that's fair - for you.  

I think that if the state of hawaii tested 5034 people with the symptoms and only 106 were positive - I really kinda wonder if there might be a problem with the test.   Or that there is something much worse going around and COVID-19 is just a tiny subset of it.  And we should REALLY be looking at the bigger picture.  


Whatever I have, it affects my throat and my lungs the most.   And it has not been over two weeks that I've had it.  And Fred is still quite sick.  

If anyone is interested ... pilot supply shops sell portable pulse oximeters. Maybe a bit cheaper & with better availability than one might find elsewhere right now. Maybe not.

paul wheaton wrote:....I think that if the state of hawaii tested 5034 people with the symptoms and only 106 were positive - I really kinda wonder if there might be a problem with the test.   Or that there is something much worse going around and COVID-19 is just a tiny subset of it.  And we should REALLY be looking at the bigger picture.  

Perhaps less related to the thread per se, I think this is an important point, all the more so because we truly are at  point in time where we *could* know a lot more about the average distribution of viruses in the average person with the present technology and it wouldn't even cost that much.  As always, the sticking point becomes "what to do with the data".....because we find ourselves in an interesting position with that data when the legal and insurance systems get involved.  With that out of the way, it's just been interesting as observed in my point above and maybe among Paul's and other's friends as well that there seems to be a lot of respiratory/neuromuscular issues that are chronic and 'annoying' and hard to pin down.  As to whether or not there is more of this in the general population than before is not something I've seen addressed. (Enterovirus D68 is another one that cropped up over the past 3-4 years with a lot of concern and focus on infant paralysis (bad enough, for sure) but downplaying clear, documented effects on adults as well.) For all pathogen-based diseases, stress can certainly play a role, but I'm talking about people who otherwise lead much healthier lifestyles than I.  So the point about looking at the bigger picture is relevant here.  

For all pathogen-based diseases, stress can certainly play a role, but I'm talking about people who otherwise lead much healthier lifestyles than I.  So the point about looking at the bigger picture is relevant here.    

I think that stress is my primary source of getting ill.  There are a lot of different things that amount to stress: mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual.  Many studies have documented the correlation between stress and illness.  The word disease, comes from dis-ease, which is that we are in a stessed situation.  Things aren't easy when we are sick.  They are complicated and messy.  We need to change the state of who we are to not be diseased, to not be in a state of a lack of ease, to not be sick/ill.  

So, one major thing that is in our power to do, is to reduce our stress.  Do things that make yourself happy, fulfilled, and purposeful.  

Many, if not all, traditional cultures associated illness with evil and bad spirits.  It is super important to keep our spirits up, even if we are ill, and/or even if we feel that we are not recovering well or fast enough.  

Keeping our spirits up is not some airy super-purple idea; it is just a matter of trying ones best to think positively, to pick yourself up, and to not allow stress to the factor that is controlling our health.  We are controlling our stress.  We are largely if not completely, controlling our health.  

So, remember, you got this, relax and do your best to increase your health and wellness, and if you can, do the same for others in any way possible.  

During the Bubonic Plague, they had the little ditty "Ring Around the Rosy".  This was to single out those with the disease which often manifested with a symptom of a red rash in rings.  It was so that the population could recognize those affected.  

I think we can do a lot better, not only in preventing our illnesses but in helping to treat them.  

The vast majority of our cells are always in a state of vibrant health, regardless of whether we are ill or not, and we have the ability to consciously choose, not only our stress levels, but we can also influence our health on the cellular level.  

I believe that our minds are far more powerful than we commonly believe, and I further believe that the power of positive thinking and affirmations, like prayer and placebo, have a massive potential impact on the health and well being of ourselves and our communities.  I'm not saying that this is the magic bullet that kills Covid 19, but it can play a huge role if we affirm within ourselves that we have the ability to heal ourselves.  A postive attitude is positive altitude in eliminating dis-ease.  

On the note of doing a lot better than the Ring Around The Rosy sing song that most kids learn, wouldn't it be nice if we were to adopt a new ditty, one that lifted up the health and well being of all, regardless of where they are at?

In that regard, I propose that this song take on that role.  It is a sing-a-long round, and is catchy, and it is certainly brought forward wonderfully by this vibrant soul.

I can't imagine how many kids are stressed out, and nervous, and scared, and tense right now.  Those things can all be helped.  We can help them.  The same is true of adults.  

Without further adieu, I offer up "Every Little Cell"   May it catch on, like a virus, and be the sing-a-long song, mantra ditty of the moment.




I wish you the blessings that you deserve: health, and wellness, and good spirits.  Stay positive, people, you and we will get through this.

I find this thread to be very useful for not just the COVID-19 bug, but for all the corona viruses and influenza viruses that can make us sick. Saying "coronavirus" is like saying "toyotavehicle." There are a lot of variations within the description of this type of virus. Corona viruses can cause the common cold, SARS, and MERS for example so they can go from mild to lethal, depending on the strain.

All of the good ideas in this thread are applicable to influenza also, which can be lethal or relatively mild, although I've never had a mild case of influenza, so relative is just that.

I can see this thread being useful a few years down the road when the next virus goes around, hopefully not nearly as contagious or severe.