The Ellen White Method of tree planting

Has anyone tried this? I did this years ago with some slight variations when planting Plum trees but I don't see any noticeably different results. I realize there are some odd features to her method but I can't resist the allure of anything contrarian:

Ellen White Method

I have not tried this method. What I have tried is amending planting holes with leaf mulch and/or compost along with maybe some guano or fish, whatever I had on hand, and I have also tried planting into native soil with no amendments other than a microbial inoculant. In my experience, the method that has worked best, and by worked I mean the best growth with least disease & pest pressure is planting in native soil with microbial inoculant. I quit adding amendments to planting holes for fruit trees and berry bushes also. The growth and overall general healthy appearance is better than the old method I abandoned.

When I look at the diagram of the method shown in the original post, I see the potential for what is called "clay potting" or when roots grow in the nice, comfortable, fluffy amended hole and then encounter the wall of native soil. It seems the tree senses the change in soil, with all the good stuff being back closer to the tree, with little good stuff further out, roots can sometimes then grow in a circle, not reaching out into the native soil. This limits a trees access to water, and it can also potentially compromise a trees ability to resist tipping over in high winds as it grows larger.

When a tree is planted in a hole with the same soil that came out, going back in, the tree sends roots far and wide seeking minerals and thus reaching into a larger area which results in access to more water, resources and better anchoring.

It looks like a complicated and laborious method of planting; maybe worthwhile if you are trying to grow a tree in ground that is not otherwise suitable.  Maybe something to try if your trees are not growing well in native earth. I can't see going through all that prep as a general rule, though.

I agree with both these responses. I can't remember who I first heard this idea from but it was an elderly guy on a podcast. He'd used this technique for many decades and swore by its results. The one thing that I do recall is that he talked about the benefits of getting oxygen to the roots and mentioned playing around with a manual air pump that was oxygenating some vegetable that he was growing. By occasionally giving it a few pumps whenever he passed by he claimed to have drastically reduced the time from planting to maturity. I'm guessing that this is the reason for the void in the bottom of the hole. I think that when it rains the air would get forced out and up through the roots, then when the water drains out of the soil it pulls new air down through the roots.  

Funny how planting advise constantly changes.  At one time it was suggested to amend the soil in the planting hole but then it was discovered that these tree roots got used to the amended soil and didn't want to venture out into the native soil.

I am more concerned about the tin can collar.  If for some reason you were unable to tend to those trees or moved, those collars would still be there.  Yes, some of them may rust enough that the tree will be able to break free, but there's the possibility of it also choking the tree.  

The uniqueness of the "secret" White method (that IMO allows the method to have a name in the first place), lies with the addition of *rocks*.

I cannot get past the rocks.  Gimmicky.

Especially because:  Take away the rocks, and you're left with compost, leaf mulch, etc. that most of us use and find ideal for planting.  

I find the large rock below the tree interesting. I have noticed when pulling out some of the (healthy) trees here to make room, a lot of them had their roots growing down over a large rock or a few rocks. Now this is possibly totally coincidental, but seeing it done intentionally makes me wonder. Are these trees able to establish more quickly because they have something to grab onto? Is it getting extra minerals from it? *shrug*

I've noticed roots following the outlines of rocks, but only in very hard, compact soil. To me, it looked like they did because the soil/rock interface provided more space than the soil itself. That wouldn't be the case in a nice, prepared planting hole. But I suppose the big rock right under the tree is to make the roots spread outward. Wonder what that would do to a taproot species... Also, the tin can is positively weird.

EDIT: When I say "following the outlines of rocks" I mean that was the only place I found roots at all (below the very thin layer of topsoil).

The only real merit I see to this method is its elaborateness.  I guarantee that if you dig a hole the size of a hot tub and place a variety of complex layers with exquisite care, you are now very invested in that tree that you planted, and are more likely to pay attention to it once you've planted it.  Thus any watering, manual pest removal, bark protection, et cetera is more likely to happen.  

Me, I know I'm gonna neglect the trees I plant.  Mowing near them a few times a year if they are lucky, watering them a few times their first year or in an extreme drought, that's about it. So I start as I propose to continue.  I get out my dirt auger and dig a few four inch holes down to the hard lifeless clay layer, spending about thirty seconds per hole.  Drop the tree in the middle hole after backfilling with enough dirt to get the level right.  Backfill everything with the remaining dirt that came up.  Cover the area with a layer of wood chip mulch, the thicker the better.  Boom! Tree planted.

Eon MacNeill wrote:I find the large rock below the tree interesting. I have noticed when pulling out some of the (healthy) trees here to make room, a lot of them had their roots growing down over a large rock or a few rocks. Now this is possibly totally coincidental, but seeing it done intentionally makes me wonder. Are these trees able to establish more quickly because they have something to grab onto? Is it getting extra minerals from it? *shrug*

Okay, I finally found the audio interview and PDF that this all came from. It was called "Fruit Trees on Steroids":

podcast and PDF relating to Ellen White Method

The PDF is the transcript of the podcast/interview.

James Freyr wrote:

When a tree is planted in a hole with the same soil that came out, going back in, the tree sends roots far and wide seeking minerals and thus reaching into a larger area which results in access to more water, resources and better anchoring.

I have minimal top soil on top of clay/rock subsoil, so as much as I agree with what you've written in principle, at times, I intentionally dig a hole several feet away from a new tree, drop some punky wood into it and a few goodies, and what I'm hoping is that the young tree will stretch those roots out to reach the goal I've set for it. Ideally, I'd do several narrow deep holes 3 to 5 feet away from the young tree in different directions, but my soil is sooooo.... hard to dig, I'm happy to do even one. I can always got back and dig more!

Michael Helmersson wrote:

It was called "Fruit Trees on Steroids":

It seems to me that in my climate, that's exactly what I *don't* want! Trees on steriods need constant watering and babying. The grow lots of big fruit, but not necessarily fruit that's as full of nutrients, because the tree can just fill up on the easy stuff and not work a little at surviving.

I question the "Ellen White Method" when I saw the credit and initials on the sketch. " H. C. W."  and "Above is California Orchardist Herbert Clarence White's diagram for planting a tree"

Assume this is a husband-wife team.

My questions for the OP, Michael, is did she explain what to do when the tree outgrows the "large tin can"? What happens when the tin can is removed and all those layers fall on the tree?

I think that if I used that method here I would lose every tree at around 3m tall. The tap root down into bedrock is important here to hold them up against our pretty constant high winds (all trees self prune into an interesting shape from the wind) You also run a risk of waterlogging the tree, if your soil is not very permeable all you have done is dig a pond and then fill it with compost. We do not add anything to our tree planting holes, I do not keep the native "weeds" away from them either once planted, if my tree can't compete with the grass/strawberry/chives ground cover in my orchard then it doesn't deserve a place there.

Jay Angler wrote:James Freyr wrote:

When a tree is planted in a hole with the same soil that came out, going back in, the tree sends roots far and wide seeking minerals and thus reaching into a larger area which results in access to more water, resources and better anchoring.

I have minimal top soil on top of clay/rock subsoil, so as much as I agree with what you've written in principle, at times, I intentionally dig a hole several feet away from a new tree, drop some punky wood into it and a few goodies, and what I'm hoping is that the young tree will stretch those roots out to reach the goal I've set for it. Ideally, I'd do several narrow deep holes 3 to 5 feet away from the young tree in different directions, but my soil is sooooo.... hard to dig, I'm happy to do even one. I can always got back and dig more!

Michael Helmersson wrote:

It was called "Fruit Trees on Steroids":

It seems to me that in my climate, that's exactly what I *don't* want! Trees on steroids need constant watering and babying. The grow lots of big fruit, but not necessarily fruit that's as full of nutrients, because the tree can just fill up on the easy stuff and not work a little at surviving.

Yeah, I cringed when I read the title "Fruit Trees on Steroids". Not a term that anyone would associate with permaculture or health.

The features of this method that I'm intrigued by are the aerating of the subsoil and the impact (if any) of electrical conductivity. I've heard elsewhere of people noticing higher yields from plants adjacent to metal fence posts, etc.  

Anne Miller wrote:I question the "Ellen White Method" when I saw the credit and initials on the sketch. " H. C. W."  and "Above is California Orchardist Herbert Clarence White's diagram for planting a tree"

Assume this is a husband-wife team.

My questions for the OP, Michael, is did she explain what to do when the tree outgrows the "large tin can"? What happens when the tin can is removed and all those layers fall on the tree?

Ellen G. White was a co-founder of the Seventh Day Adventist Church in the 1800s. I believe the H.C.W. is her grandson.

I saw or heard no mention of what later became of the large tin can. I assume this to be for rodent protection, the way we utilize hardware cloth or plastic spirals.

** I did search for this topic before starting this thread, but a Duck-Duck-Go search brought up this: a previous thread on this topic

Add me o the list of people that used to amend planting holes for tress, and no longer does.

Jay Angler - that's a great idea. I'm really struggling with getting trees to survive. Our soil is 1/3 rock, and entirely sloped. We don't get much rain and when we do run off is an issue. I'm using hugelkulture to try to lessen the run off and fed the trees, but digging at least one hole might help as well.

Michael Helmersson wrote:I saw or heard no mention of what later became of the large tin can. I assume this to be for rodent protection, the way we utilize hardware cloth or plastic spirals.

Notwithstanding my general skepticism about this elaborate method, I don't see the tin can as an issue.

Traditionally, a steel can exposed to the elements would completely rust away within a few years.  Modern cans have a plastic coating; vintage ones were coated in thin layers of zinc (galvanized) or tin (hence "tin can").  None of these do more than add a few years to the life of a can set in soil.  In all cases, a "large" tin can would IMO be corroded to insignificance by the time it might otherwise pose a threat to the tree.  If it's a concern, burn the can (throw it in a small wood fire) to burn off coatings.  Then it will be sure to rust away in a year or two.

Stacy Witscher wrote:Jay Angler - that's a great idea. I'm really struggling with getting trees to survive. Our soil is 1/3 rock, and entirely sloped. We don't get much rain and when we do run off is an issue. I'm using hugelkulture to try to lessen the run off and fed the trees, but digging at least one hole might help as well.

When possible, my first digging location is up-slope of the plant. Have you seen the pictures of how a swale creates a bloom of water underground down-slope of the swale? There's no way I can do actual swales, (and in my ecosystem, I'm not convinced they're as good an option as either an above-ground or below ground hugel), but my idea is to have a place where I know that water can infiltrate quickly to attract worms etc to aerate and feed the soil. A similar concept like this had been used to fix abused lawns. I've also read that tree roots are smart enough to seek out water (hence the danger of tree roots invading drainage tiles!), so I figured that if I want my tree roots to spread, I should give them a target they might like?

I will try this when I purchase new fruit trees and keep you posted.

I think the tin can is one way of protecting the trunk from chewing animals or from sunburn when trunk is thin.  However it should be removed at some point to allow for proper growth.  Not easy to remove however....

I found a pdf of the method, and EGW's description, and the more modern description that seems to adapt what was originally stated.

Here is the pdf link to the modern adapted method and how EGW stated the method used then in Australia, where she was at at the time (drained swamp land.)

EGW method - modern PDF

the youtube of the modern adapted method



The Ellen White Method of tree planting as is described by EGW in the PDF - rocks, rich dirt, dressing (barn yard manure )

I will try both methods (rock/rich dirt/big hole/barnyard manure)  and (the method adapted in the pdf / video )   when I purchase new fruit trees and keep you posted.  Both fruit trees will be the same variety planted on the same day.  

James Freyr wrote:I see the potential for what is called "clay potting" or when roots grow in the nice, comfortable, fluffy amended hole and then encounter the wall of native soil. It seems the tree senses the change in soil, with all the good stuff being back closer to the tree, with little good stuff further out, roots can sometimes then grow in a circle, not reaching out into the native soil.

Whilst I completely agree with you, a little tip to help mitigate this - such as when transplanting a potted tree into the soil - is to dig a square hole. When the roots reach the flat edges of the hole they find it more difficult to curve back around, particularly when they meet a corner. It's a trick used often in gardening but it applies equally to tree planting.

I've used this when planting fruit orchards in Herefordshire where I was instructed to dig a 2 cubic ft. square hole, add a little seaweed and bonemeal, a small handful of biochar, a thin layer of soil (to encourage the roots down and to stop the roots being burnt) and then to place the tree and backfill.

Denise Cares wrote:I think the tin can is one way of protecting the trunk from chewing animals or from sunburn when trunk is thin.  However it should be removed at some point to allow for proper growth.  Not easy to remove however....

This method dates back to the 1800s, so I guess that was the best option for avoiding girdling. Today, I think it'd be reasonable to use wire mesh or something like it that can be removed easily.

I have not tried this exact approach but have tried a modified version of hugleculture and all my plants to include lilacs, elderberries, fruit trees, and a variety of bushes are all growing very rapidly and looking awesome.  Wish I had more to plant and I would try it.  All my available land is planted. Hope to hear from someone who will actually try it. Good luck.

On 8/04/2021 Since I let my son's Dunstin Chestnut tree dry out in the pot and loose it's leaves, in the heat.  I planted it in a 24 inch by 24 inch cube of a hole.  I added alternating layers of dirt, peach scraps from processing fruit for canning (and pits ), and a modest amount of 10-10-10 fertilizer, some bagged topsoil / bagged compost/ and 1/3 of a 5 gallon bucket of water.  Then drove three wood stakes around it to prevent getting mowed by the zero turn mower, when it gets to zooming around.

the weedy gardener did a little video on the ellen white method and i just planted some pear trees in clay soil with this method

Where in her writing’s can I find the method?if some one can please help.

Antonio Garcia wrote:Where in her writing’s can I find the method?if some one can please help.

I believe her son was the one that published her method. This link explains the concept: https://suncountrygardens.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/ellen_white_planting_method_02.pdf

Does that help, or are you looking for a direct connection to Ellen White herself?

julz Taylor wrote: The writer states that he can get 100 lb of tomatoes planting this way vs 6lb planting the normal commercial way, and he says the taste is 'out of this world'.

I would really like to see someone try this method and replicate the results.

I planted a couple of hardwood trees with the Ellen White method after listening to her relative Herbert Clarence White espouse its benefits in a podcast. My trees died within a couple years in my cool, 45 degree latitude, high water table microclimate where I planted them. Site or method? Afterwards I learned that many of her gardening methods were adopted from Australia. Arguments continue to rage (pro- and con-Seventh Day Adventist) as to how much and what inspiration she gleaned from other non-attributed figures.

I think that there is some wisdom in the Ellen White method. I do use some of those techniques.   However, if someone asks me, "Should I always use the Ellen White method of planting trees?", I would give the frequent permaculture answer: it depends.

My philosophy, gleaned over decades of experience planting fruit trees, is that you should make your soil for your fruit trees half way between what you already have, and the most perfect conditions for that tree.  At first, I didn't amend the soil at all.  I planted the trees in our deep clay in the fall.  They died in the winter, due to our heavy rains and poorly draining soil.  Drowning roots don't get oxygen; they get diseases.   Dead trees don't adjust to the soil.  

However, I think that those of you who said to limit the amendments were correct.  In perfect soil, with a round hole in deep clay, the roots will just go around and girdle themselves. I noticed some people advocating for a square hole. That makes sense.   I am an advocate of a triangular hole, and I will usually lead the longer, stronger roots to one of the points.  I add old rotten wood, because trees need to have a fungal soil.  I also add gravel mixed in with our deep clay so that it will actually drain and not drown. I will often add old leaves to the soil as well, to break up the clay.  I don't add anything nutritious into the hole.  The tree needs to get used to the soil before it starts growing heavily.   I usually plant in the fall, so that the tree can be ready when it's time to grow in the spring.  I also leave the soil in a tiny hill, because the tree needs good draining soil, and the soil will settle over time.  In the last few years, I've been using biochar, and it's made a huge difference on some trees.  I have had to move many of the trees, either to give them away, or because I've run out of space.  When I dig them up, the roots look fantastic this way.  

I think we need to think about the soil and the climate that we have now, and how we can adjust the soil to what the tree wants, at least half way.

JohN S
PDX OR

Just another thought too is that in our case we cleared a big area for trees and knew that we'd have a year or so before we were going to plant trees. So we pre-amended a lot of the soil by dumping several yards of mulch, ~50 pounds of organic fertilizer, and inoculated biochar. Literally dumped it, spread it out with a loader, then dragged a ripper through it to till it into the soil. Just a note that if you're working with an area that you're going to use someday in the future pre-ammending is an option too.