battery powered tools

just thought I would share a recent experience.
I pulled the echo gas powered hedge clippers out of the shed and with new carburetor and gas lines got the little engine running well but the blades would not budge. I got a few tools and got the gearbox open and its full of rust from condensation. lots of tiny bearings and many moving parts inside. went online looking for parts and it will cost at least $100 to replace most of the rusted stuff.
a trip to local Home Depot I found in the clearance section a ryobi 40 volt hedge clipper with battery and charger included.
I just came inside after running it till the battery died.
these things are outstanding. 5 stars, two thumbs up.
this thing chopped though every vine, and branch I tried to cut with it. what a time save and so easy to use with no gas and oil to buy and mix and no fumes and no pulling cords and no parts that need to be replaced, well battery is guaranteed for 3 years so maybe in future it might need a new battery

I love my Ryobi 18v system. I don't work my tools hard like I do tools at the mill I work at (we use Milwaukee there) but I haven't had many issues that weren't from me doing something I shouldn't have been doing!

I have only had one battery go 'bad' once but you can revive batteries if they simply over-drained.

I was a petrol-head for the longest time when it came to outdoor tools but I am now moving towards battery systems.

I'm still a petro-head for some of my heaviest duty tools (tractor, snow blower, chainsaw, hand mowers).

But for smaller jobs I love the convenience of my 18V Ryobi and Makita systems (and the recip saws in particular). Hit the switch and go -- no muss no fuss -- gotta love it.

The big brushless Makita was a hit when a big poplar tree came down on the neighbourhood access road. By the time everybody got their chainsaws together I already had it chopped into sections and the road clear.

I've loved my battery tools although it is annoying when they just stop working, as my milwaukee chainsaw did after four years of use.  I took it apart and figured out which of the electrical boards isn't working, but everything is hardwired together, the board itself is buried and you can't even see what's on it, not that I'd want to risk soldering it anyway.  I could get a replacement electronics assembly on ebay for $100 and try to solder it in to replace the one that's there... there's no guide for how to do this anywhere though, it seems everyone just sends it in or gives up on it.  It's out of warranty and they quote up to $230 plus shipping to repair it which is basically the cost of a new one.   I could hotwire the saw past that control board but that seems pretty dangerous with a chainsaw.  

Gas saws have their problems but they're fixable, and catastrophic failures are usually due to you doing something very wrong, where I think this battery saw just got a connection loose because the electrical boards are fragile and subject to intense vibration during use.  I have a very beat up gas saw from the late 1980s that someone gave me broken, I fixed it (cleaned carburetor, replaced gas hose and couple other small parts) and it runs.  I don't imagine any of my battery tools are going to work in 20 years, probably not even 10, and as I just saw, some will conk out at 4 years.

Rant over.  I still love the battery tools, I just wonder about their long term reliability.

I am transitioning to battery everything.I have 3 battery chainsaws that will keep me cutting all day.   To be clear, I only paid for one.  One was bought, one was given to me to fulfill a warranty, and one was frequent flyer miles ….that I didn’t buy the tickets for in the first place.

We went through years of trying to deal with gas hand tools.

When they were needed they had sat too long and did not work.

Dear hubby likes Dewalt.

It is like Ford and Chevy, a person likes one or the other.

All our tools car now battery-operated.

I have switched over to 200 ft 10 gauge extension cords and standard electric tools.     Yes it is a pain to drag the cord around but dealing with batteries not having power is more of a pain to me than it is worth.        I still have some battery tools, but converting them to run off a cord is the way I am going.

Mart Hale wrote:I have switched over to 200 ft 10 gauge extension cords and standard electric tools.     Yes it is a pain to drag the cord around but dealing with batteries not having power is more of a pain to me than it is worth.        I still have some battery tools, but converting them to run off a cord is the way I am going.

I still use plug-in tools when I'm within reach of an outlet. It saves wear and tear on cordless batteries, which are lithium ion and have served well but will not last forever.

I also have a few cordless tools with dead batteries (nicd, ptui!). These run in the 12-18V range. I may hook them up to a car battery and see how they respond. If I can use my tractor as a power source in the back 40, they may get a new life.

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:

Mart Hale wrote:I have switched over to 200 ft 10 gauge extension cords and standard electric tools.     Yes it is a pain to drag the cord around but dealing with batteries not having power is more of a pain to me than it is worth.        I still have some battery tools, but converting them to run off a cord is the way I am going.

I still use plug-in tools when I'm within reach of an outlet. It saves wear and tear on cordless batteries, which are lithium ion and have served well but will not last forever.

I also have a few cordless tools with dead batteries (nicd, ptui!). These run in the 12-18V range. I may hook them up to a car battery and see how they respond. If I can use my tractor as a power source in the back 40, they may get a new life.

I have seen several people upgrade the standard plug in with a solar generator    Which makes it plenty portable...

I guess with a DC power supply with enough amps it would run the cordless with an added wire....

I do have lithiums   but when I buy new it is the corded ones I look for...

Cordless are indeed handy for that one simple 2 min job.

Douglas Alpenstock wrote:I'm still a petro-head for some of my heaviest duty tools (tractor, snow blower, chainsaw, hand mowers).....

Douglas, in case you mean "push mower" when you mentioned 'hand mower', I'm wondering how many of those Makita 18V batteries you have on hand?  Once we got up to several of the larger amp-hour sized lithium DeWalt batteries in our collection, we bit the bullet and purchased a 'tool-only' offering of a Dewalt push mower.  This mower is only used on the yard section immediately near the house and we've yet to mow for long enough to exhaust the batteries.  I actually keep a 3.5 hp gas push mower around as well, but this is used to mulch the garden in the spring.....basically dragging it over last year's vines and detritus weeds that are no longer so intimidating.  Only one season so far, but impressed enough with the battery push mower for the lawn near the house....and loving the lack of noise and exhaust!  May be worth looking into one of those Makita push-types which I think have a pretty good rating.

It's a good thought for a small suburban lawn.

But they have to be charged, and lithium ion batteries have a lifespan, and frankly I have doubts that they are a whole lot greener than Briggs/Stratton when you track down the entire life cycle.

The other factor is that my grid electricity on the prairies is still majority fossil-fuel generated, at least the reliable part (there's lots of wind and solar too, but it 100% fails when demand is critical and the sun is down at this high latitude and the wind stops blowing -- happens every winter below -40 when the Siberian high drops by.)

I know the inefficiency of the grid, having done technical work in that field, and suspect that burning a couple cupfuls of gasoline in the hand mower pretty much comes out even, and quite possibly ahead.

Perhaps El*n will invent a goat implant that makes them self-powered and yet controllable, like a Roomba. Naahh, not interested, that would just be ugly in every way.

(It's late, I'm rambling, pardon me.)

My son works renovating old off-grid Portuguese properties. He is a complete convert to the Einhell range of power tools with interchangeable batteries.

With old properties you never quite know what you'll need next, so he takes an assortment of tools and a bank of batteries. The chainsaw gets used for cutting out old beams. Then you might need a grinder for some mysterious bit of metal sticking out somewhere unexpected. Then a load of holes might need drilling, or a ton of screws putting in, or something needs sanding on the window frame you were trying to install. He even has a little battery powered loudspeaker which he can attach to his phone to blast music everywhere while he works.

This is his latest toy.

He calls it his pull-my-finger...



And here's a little video of someone putting it through its paces.



I think the beauty of them is that they are lightweight, they start at the press of a button, and they only use power while they are actually working. Which means that unless you are doing some serious and continuous work you can just grab and use them to help with whatever task you are doing at the time and then they just sit there patiently waiting for the next time you need them.

He recharges all the batteries when he gets home in the evening. And then I pinch them off him to power the strimmer to tidy up my garden over the weekend.

I asked my son what battery tools he used yesterday at work.

There was a small team of them making a ring-beam on an old, off-grid stone house ready to put a new roof on.

Driver and drill to extract/insert screws from shuttering.
Circular saw to cut shuttering to length.
Pull-my-finger to fix botched circular saw cut.
Grinder to cut rebar.

Speaker to annoy everyone

Batteries used - 4 batteries total. 2 3ah, 2 4ah

He has so far resisted the temptation to invest in a coffee maker, mostly because the cost is insane and it produces just one little cup of coffee so it's a bit antisocial. A flask is better for that job!

I'm also sharing this rather incriminating photo of an old, abandoned level-crossing sign which mysteriously appeared in the back of the link-box. I think the dragons must have borrowed my son's battery angle-grinder to liberate it and bring it home for restoration for any train-spotters who may appreciate it. Can't just leave the poor thing to its fate and be all broken and unloved, can we?

Battery health on these have been good for me over the years, as I've had several 40v outdoor tools including an electric chainsaw and leaf blower and I am amazed how well they work.

The biggest thing to keep in mind is to keep the batteries in a climate-controlled part of your house/workshop, as going outside the recommended range is hard on them. I keep all of the batteries in the mud room. Don't forget to unplug them once they're fully charged, either.

j

bruce Fine wrote:just thought I would share a recent experience.
I pulled the echo gas-powered hedge clippers out of the shed and with new carburetor and gas lines got the little engine running well but the blades would not budge. I got a few tools and got the gearbox open and its full of rust from condensation. lots of tiny bearings and many moving parts inside. went online looking for parts and it will cost at least $100 to replace most of the rusted stuff.
a trip to local Home Depot I found in the clearance section a ryobi 40 volt hedge clipper with battery and charger included.
I just came inside after running it till the battery died.
these things are outstanding. 5 stars, two thumbs up.
this thing chopped though every vine, and branch I tried to cut with it. what a time save and so easy to use with no gas and oil to buy and mix and no fumes and no pulling cords and no parts that need to be replaced, well battery is guaranteed for 3 years so maybe in future it might need a new battery

Jim Garlits wrote:...The biggest thing to keep in mind is to keep the batteries in a climate-controlled part of your house/workshop, as going outside the recommended range is hard on them. I keep all of the batteries in the mud room...

This is my challenge because I have no climate controlled area. I have found that below freezing temps makes the batteries near useless, so for winter I use the gas chainsaw on ethanol free fuel. Every other time of year I prefer the battery stuff though!

Jim Garlits wrote:The biggest thing to keep in mind is to keep the batteries in a climate-controlled part of your house/workshop, as going outside the recommended range is hard on them. I keep all of the batteries in the mud room.

I have not had problems using charged batteries in the cold, though they probably are less efficient.

But I bring batteries inside to warm up before charging, as per the manual. Batteries are not cheap to replace.

Jim Garlits wrote: I keep all of the batteries in the mud room. Don't forget to unplug them once they're fully charged, either.

I keep all of my tool batteries inside as well, but was wondering about the charger units.  We have several of these and last fall I mounted two of them on the wall of the garage....which is unheated and will get down to -20F.  This is true as well for some of the battery-powered tools....they will be in a cabinet out this this cold garage, but the batteries always kept inside where it is warm.  Any worries about the tools or chargers being in that cold garage?

I just peeked inside my DeWalt 20V battery charger and looked up the specs for one of the electrolytic capacitors. It says the operating temp goes down to -40*C. I figured that might be the part most likely to have a problem with low temperatures, but apparently it can run much lower than the safe charging temperature of 5*C on the low end.

I wrote a much, much longer post about Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, untold billions of dollars of cells that will be produced soon, and the impending doom of that situation if we don't do something to Reduce and Reuse before the Recycle part implodes. But I think that might be better for a different thread at a later time. Suffice to say that I hope more people step up to reuse the massive flood of cells on their way instead of just being angry at bad guys.

I use Ryobi tools, especially over at my yarden.
I have wondered if a small solar panel and charge controler could be used to keep Ryobi batteries charged.
There are Ryobi chargers that use wall warts.
I think I might be able to chop off the wart and wire the charger to the charge controller.

I have been switching to batteries for quite a while. I like not dealing with the noise, fumes and mess of gas powered tools. I also like using power cords. However my dad was using my electric powered Sawzall and ended up cutting the power cord insulation. Now the tool feels completely unsafe and I am thinking of replacing it with a battery version. I was first skeptic about buying and using a battery operated jobsite miter saw. But man it really did the job it was designed to do. Same with the circular saw. I was impressed. Then I took a leap and bought a battery operated lawn mower/weed eater/blower kit. I have about 18000 sq ft of grassy area. The lawn mower could mow about 1/3 of the lawn before dying. And this was overgrown grass in the height of the growing season. It cut right through like butter. So, technically I could probably manage with a couple extra batteries. I have not had a battery operated tool fail me yet. My oldest one is an old compact driver that used the small batteries. It still works. They seem to be safer and more portable than electric. Though they are heavier and more expensive. But the rotary hammer I recently bought is electric. I wanted the cheaper price tag and reliable electricity. Also, I did not fear cutting the power cable. And this was immediately to demo the bathroom tile. I have electricity in that room. I can see some other uses for this tool. But I can use an extension cord.

William,

What voltage are your Ryobi batteries?  If they are 18 volts, then a solar panel has some potential, but charging a Lithium Ion battery is not so simple as charging a Lead Acid battery.  Very likely you would want some type of charge controller between the solar panel and the battery, but that means that you would need to rig up something besides a regular charger.  I see two possible options:

1)  Get a solar panel plus a small inverter to give your battery charger access to 120 volts.  This is the easiest, cheapest approach, but there are losses in stepping up the voltage just to step it back down again.

2)  The other option would be to get ahold of an old, non-functional/very cheap charger left over from ebay, strip out the electronics and just use the contact points as a base.  From there wire in the appropriate charge controller (it would need to be compatible with the output voltage of your solar panel).  To me this sounds like a fun, awesome project!  But it is more complicated and doubtless more expensive--how expensive I can't tell as I have not even started a parts list yet.  

So overall I like your idea and I am thinking that I may at some point conjure up a project like this for myself.

Good luck,

Eric

I have a couple of cheap chargers that I have been using that can charge a bunch of different battery types. I have so far only used it to charge 12V lead acid and single ~3.7V Li-Ion cells, but it is capable of charging larger packs up to 6S. The charger is a cheap knock-off. The original model is the SkyRC iMax B6, and there are cheap versions on Amazon. I had bought one a few years ago and it worked out well for my use case. The battery discharge load tester didn't appear to apply any load, and there is a slight difference (a few hundredths of a volt) between the voltage it reads and the voltage at the battery, but it works well enough for my needs. I'd imagine the SkyRC brand of charger might be a bit more reliable. If someone has a particular tool brand that makes a dedicated car charger, that would be a more reliable way to charge from 12V solar as well.

It has a wide input voltage of 11-18V. I have used old 12V wall wart adapters, a car battery, an old wheelchair battery connected to PV solar, and a 4S Li-Ion battery to charge other batteries with no issues. It also says it charges NiCad and NiMH cells up to 15S, but I'm not quite sure how that part works. It doesn't seem to have a setting for choosing how many cells are in series like you can for Li-ion/LiPo.

The main purpose is for RC LiPo batteries that are made to be high power and low weight, so they don't come with a balancing circuit and rely on the charger. More than a few reviews claim that this charger caused damage. I don't know if this would matter for tool batteries with their own BMS, as that should have all the protections in place and take care of things like balancing and over voltage. I know the charger has functioning reverse polarity protection. If the right type of battery isn't recognized due to it being too low in voltage or a disconnected wire, it won't attempt to charge. It also sets off a loud alarm if the battery disconnects or finishes charging.

I will have to look in to trying to charge tool batteries with it and see how it goes. One issue with telling other people to replicate what I am doing is all of the flat out lying with tools, specifically when it comes to power. Generally when I see 5S Li-Ion power tools they are advertised as 20V. But looking at various tools you can find multiple voltages listed when they all are using the same cell technology and number of cells in series. Compound this with older tools using different chemistries, and who knows what might become popular in the future, and it's a giant mess. I was under the impression that most 18V rated tools used NiCad/NiMH, but apparently not all. I can't give a blanket statement of 'this should work' when I don't know what someone else is working with and the advertising is purposely confusing.

I'm currently busy using my chargers to build much larger ebike battery packs, but hopefully next week I can try it out on other tool battery packs and report back on how well it goes.

Eric, your post inspired me to look deeper into this.
I didn't realize how capable a good charge controler actually is.
With the controler doing the hard work, a simple Power Wheels adapter can handle  making the connections to the battery.

I wonder, would an old  refrigerator be a good cabinet for the batteries and charger?
The insulation alone might be enough keep them warm, but come summer time they would need ventilation, (which could also be solar powered.)

William Bronson wrote:I use Ryobi tools, especially over at my yarden.
I have wondered if a small solar panel and charge controler could be used to keep Ryobi batteries charged.
There are Ryobi chargers that use wall warts.
I think I might be able to chop off the wart and wire the charger to the charge controller.

William, with all respect, I do not think this is a good idea. I think you run the (expensive) risk of trashing your battery packs.

I have done lots of experiments, successfully, with individual sub-18650 lithium-ion cells and direct charging from a 15W solar panel. I harvest them out of "dead" battery packs (usually only one or two cells are actually dead; the rest have lots of life left). The cool part is they play nice with LEDs.

But a lithium ion battery (made up of cells ganged together) is a factory balanced system that requires a specific charging profile to monitor the state of the battery and provide the right voltage at the right time. With a yo-yo input, they may undercharge, overcharge, or overheat and one cell will "pop" -- and boom it's a dead battery.

As Eric suggested above, solar charging a "forgiving" battery chemistry and then floating the solar input to charging your battery packs with the official charger is the way to go. This will work. I would bet that 12VDC options (which means 12-16VDC input) are available so maybe you can dodge the inverter losses. My 2c.

EDIT: You posted while I was ruminating. My mistake -- my comments refer only to the quote included. Cheers!

William, everyone,

I just found this component that is a dedicated charge controller that goes between a solar panel and an 18v battery.  If this is what it says it is than this is exactly what you are looking for!

But a part of me says that I found this far too easily/quickly and the price ($10) is just so minimal that I would have to do more investigating before I buy.

Still, this might point you in the right direction.

Eric

https://www.amazon.com/Lithium-Battery-Charging-Controller-Protection/dp/B082939ZXX/ref=asc_df_B082939ZXX/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=632083107333&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11915269881412725858&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9022725&hvtargid=pla-1378884841873&psc=1&mcid=1c2bdc82471a341595d9abb27305993d&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwMqvBhCtARIsAIXsZpZui5z9tZ2Zqca8joANoARmJD8gJB1yofz0ROQFJvZN9j7fw1YA2vIaApwhEALw_wcB

Eric Hanson wrote:William, everyone,

I just found this component that is a dedicated charge controller that goes between a solar panel and an 18v battery.  If this is what it says it is than this is exactly what you are looking for!

Just looked at the specs. This has possibilities!

I have been doing a bit more digging around to figure out exactly how I want to move forward with solar and charging various size battery packs. I keep finding various tidbits of information that are changing my mind on how I can go about my solar aspirations.

I dug through my YouTube subscriptions and found an old video using a Turnigy charger that is almost exactly the same as my current chargers. The layout, screen, and beeping sounds are identical. I will have to fuss around a bit more with the ones I have, as I remember having an issue where the discharge option for a single cell wasn't working. I also see this Turnigy model has a tiny fan built in that kicks on while discharging, so it may be that my cheaper model doesn't have the parts for this option installed. In any event, the video goes over much more than I could reasonably write in one post, so here it is:

After watching the latest sixtyfiveford video I figured I would give an update here. Apparently he got a pre-release model of a battery adapter system for power tools. The batteries use high quality Molicel cells, and the adapters are much smaller than others, only requiring about an extra ~1/4" or 6-7mm. He does a full review and it looks really good. The most important part to me is what he says at the end. He says products like these force the tool manufacturers to just make better tools, instead of locking you in to 'their' batteries, charging a premium.

It makes sense to me. People generally don't buy cars or electronics from the makers of batteries. Let the car, electronics, and tool companies make their stuff and let the battery people do their thing. Especially since most things are already standardized, and many factories are coming online to pump out cells whether anyone likes it or not, I like the idea of battery experts doing their thing and reducing waste, eliminating vendor lock-in, and forcing the tool companies to make good tools. Not just 1 or 2 flagship products and then a bunch of poorly made stuff to fill gaps because people are stuck on a proprietary connector.

The product hasn't come out, so I can't personally say if it is good or not, but it seems really decent and I love the idea. Maybe one day we will just have one connector for each voltage, and perhaps keying so low amperage batteries won't slide in to high current tools. Anyway, here is the video: