First Year Seeds on Order

I order my seeds, for my first go here west of the cascadia's in Aberdeen,WA Zone 8b/9
I got lazy adding some of the image URLs so not everyplant has a picture, if you care let me know and I can add them.


Black Hungarian Pepper
Item No: HPP101


Carnevale Di Venezia - Morning Glory
Item No: FL496


Brocade Mix Marigold
Item No: FL471


Mary Helen Marigold
Item No: FL467


Short Stuff - Sunflower
Item No: FL739


Tall Double Mix - Strawflower
Item No: FL640


Basil - Lemon
Item No: HB107


Basil - Genovese
Item No: HB101


Chives Common
Item No: HB135


Cilantro
Item No: HB125


Dill Bouquet
Item No: HB126


Echinacea Purpurea
Item No: HB119


Marjoram
Item No: HB137

Oregano Vulgare
Item No: HB131

Parsley Giant Of Italy
Item No: HB133

Rosemary
Item No: HB218

Sage - Broad Leaf
Item No: HB147

Tansy
Item No: HB220

Jubilee Bush Watermelon
Item No: WM194


Orangeglo
Item No: WM127


Golden Giant Amaranth
Item No: AM117

Calima Beans
Item No: BN144

Cylindra or Formanova Beet
Item No: BT111

Calabrese Green Sprouting Broccoli
Item No: BR101

Tendercrisp Celery
Item No: CE101


Quinoa, Brightest Brilliant
Item No: GS112

Rocky Top Lettuce Mix
Item No: SB103


Charentais Melon
Item No: ML114

Sugar Ann Snap Pea
Item No: SN107

Orange Bell Pepper
Item No: PP137

Golden Cal Wonder Pepper
Item No: PP108

Tomatillo Purple
Item No: TL101

Gold Medal Tomato
Item No: TS112

Dad's Sunset Tomato
Item No: TO103

Amish Paste Tomato
Item No: TM126

Large Barred Boar Tomato
Item No: TX102

Purple of Romagna Artichoke
Item No: AR105

Green Globe Artichoke
Item No: AR101

Tete Noire Cabbage
Item No: CB113

Cosmic Purple Carrot
Item No: CR112

Amarillo Carrot
Item No: CR114

Snowball Self-Blanching Cauliflower
Item No: CA101

Dragon's Egg Cucumber
Item No: CU147

Muncher Cucumber
Item No: CU174

Edirne Purple Striped Eggplant
Item No: EG160

Giant Musselburgh Leek
Item No: LK102

Big Max Pumpkin
Item No: SQ123

Winter Luxury Pie Pumpkin
Item No: SQ167

Butternut-Waltham Squash
Item No: SQ112

Zucchino Rampicante Squash
Item No: SSQ103

Fordhook Zucchini
Item No: SSQ139

Hssiao His Hung Shih Tomato
Item No: TY135

Amsterdam Prickly Seeded Spinach
Item No: SP108

Ailsa Craig Onion
Item No: ON122

He Shi Ko Bunching Onion
Item No: ON111

Flat of Italy Onion
Item No: ON104

Tom Thumb Lettuce
Item No: LT102

Lemongrass
Item No: HB162

Yarrow
Item No: HB114

Dwarf Queeny Mixed - Hollyhock
Item No: FL429

Queeny Lilac - Rose - Hollyhock
Item No: FL425


Parker's Variety - Yarrow
Item No: FL795

Canterbury Bells Mixed
Item No: FL150

Wow, and I thought I was the Imelda Marcos of seeds.

I just ordered a few from Baker Creek too and got them yesterday. I'm glad I got them before you swamped 'em with that order. I hope you have a great year!

Thanks John and Bill.
My last garden was eaten my a happy pregnant marmot half way through she had 2 kits that both grew heavy off the garden for the winter.
My family and I really enjoyed watching those marmots.

This time around, I will be sharing my story real time on permies and since I own the land now and growing food is a major goal, I'll be more then willing to invest time and capital, that I just wasn't willing to do back in Virginia. Such as maybe a small games license or what have you.

Tansy. Is not legal in this state.

C Lamson wrote:Tansy. Is not legal in this state.

Thanks C Lamson for the heads up, Are Tansy Seeds Legal?
Do you have a URL or other reference handy?

I would like to see in what applications Tansy are not legal.

See the washington state noxious weed control board.

Every summer its in the news to look out for it and be rid of it.

Tansy is Class C, so "Not Legal" I feel is an over reaching statement unless it is a Class A, and I thank you for pointing me to this path,
I have a call setup Tuesday with the Noxious Weed Control Board for my county of Garys Harbor.

Weed Classes: A, B, and C
Class A Weeds: Non-native species whose
distribution in Washington is still limited.
Preventing new infestations and eradicating
existing infestations are the highest priority.
Eradication of Class A plants is required by law.

Class B Weeds: Non-native species presently
limited to portions of the State. Species are
designated for control in regions where they are
not yet widespread. Preventing new infestations
in these areas is a high priority. In regions where
a Class B species is already abundant, control is
decided at the local level, with containment as
the primary goal. Please contact your County
Noxious Weed Control Coordinator to learn which
species are designated in your area.

Class C Weeds: Noxious weeds that are typically
widespread in WA or are of special interest to
the state’s agricultural industry. The Class C
status allows counties to require control if locally
desired. Other counties may choose to provide
education or technical consultation.

If it is not already in your plans, you are probably going to need some protection for a lot of those. Not much summer heat in these parts. It is very difficult to grow a pepper outside of a tunnel and only a little easier to get a ripe tomato. Melons probably won't work without supplemental heat. Amaranth, quinoa, and sunflowers need to be planted very early to get them to finish before the late summer rains start and there may not be enough heat to get mature seed from amaranth. Winter squash also tough (start early and transplant) but summer squash is usually OK. On the upside, all the greens and brassicas and root vegetables should be easy and can be grown year-round. A high tunnel should help with everything except perhaps the melons.

You have it a little better than we do at the coast, but temps dip into the low 40s every month of the year and rarely exceed 70. It is hard to grow anything that needs to be warm and dry because, although we do dry out through the summer, the low temperatures mean slow growth, so many things don't mature before they get soaked.

Bill Dubiya wrote:If it is not already in your plans, you are probably going to need some protection for a lot of those. Not much summer heat in these parts. It is very difficult to grow a pepper outside of a tunnel and only a little easier to get a ripe tomato. Melons probably won't work without supplemental heat. Amaranth, quinoa, and sunflowers need to be planted very early to get them to finish before the late summer rains start and there may not be enough heat to get mature seed from amaranth. Winter squash also tough (start early and transplant) but summer squash is usually OK. On the upside, all the greens and brassicas and root vegetables should be easy and can be grown year-round. A high tunnel should help with everything except perhaps the melons.

You have it a little better than we do at the coast, but temps dip into the low 40s every month of the year and rarely exceed 70. It is hard to grow anything that needs to be warm and dry because, although we do dry out through the summer, the low temperatures mean slow growth, so many things don't mature before they get soaked.

Thanks Bill, I think allot of my seeds wont make it. I'll be learning allot as I go and posting updates,
What Seeds do you like to buy? What species of tomatoes have you had success with?
I would love to do a high tunnel project one day, I am really thinking about doing a rocket mass heater connected to under soil water pipes with a blow off value of water intake reservoir, but that is going to be a while.

What you grow will depend largely on what you like to eat, but in terms of things that are easy and productive in the maritime NW, think about:

Peas (grow almost year round, start them Feb-Oct)

Runner beans and broad beans

Brassicas:
Kale and Cabbage (year round)
Broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts (yep, year round)
Mustard greens (Late summer - spring)
B. carinata (Texsel greens / highland kale)
Kohlrabi
Tree collards
Sea kale

Greens:
Spinach (sow Sep-May)
Lettuce / arugula / chicory, endive & escarole / mache / chard / cress / orach (basically year-round)

Alliums:
Leeks (year round)
Onions
Garlic

Roots and tubers: (almost all can be stored in the ground in this climate)
Potatoes
Carrots / parsnips / root parsley / skirret
Salsify / scorzonera
Beets
Turnips and Rutabagas (year round)
Radishes
Other Andean tubers: Oca / Mashua / Yacon / Ulluco

You’ll find it more useful to think about heat units than climate zone. We’re in the same climate zone as much of Texas, for example, even though they get far more heat and sun than we do. What you can grow in Texas and what you can grow in SW WA are very different.

http://www.ahs.org/gardening-resources/gardening-maps/heat-zone-map

Most seed companies don't use the heat zone map, so it isn't as useful as USDA zones in that regard, but it will help you to think about what sort of things grow well in regions that have the same number of heat units.

I don’t bother trying to grow tomatoes outside anymore, but we had the best luck with Aurora, transplanting out around June 1.

This is also a great climate for a lot of small fruit: raspberries, blueberries, gooseberries, kiwis, sea buckthorn, etc.

C Lamson wrote:Tansy. Is not legal in this state.

I ordered Tansy (Tanacetum vulgare) and not Tansy ragwort (Jacobaea vulgaris).
So I think I should be fine, but I will check with the weed controllers.

The tansy you ordered is in the class C list.

C Lamson wrote:The tansy you ordered is in the class C list.

"Ragwort, Tansy, Senecio jacobaea" is what is listed.
http://graysharbor.wsu.edu/Weeds/documents/2013ghlistdraft.pdf

For my County.

Tanacetum Vulgare is what I ordered.

Your not using the correct site. Yours is a wsu site. That is a university. You need to go to the state government site. Do not bring in tansy. They keep a look out for it and will fine you.

C Lamson wrote:Your not using the correct site. Yours is a wsu site. That is a university. You need to go to the state government site. Do not bring in tansy. They keep a look out for it and will fine you.

Class C means the State leaves it up to the county.

Andrew, I would consider getting Growing West of the Cascades by Steve Solomon (if you haven't already). Ideas like having a low tunnel hoop house for the first month of setting out tomatoes and peppers pretty much made my garden last year. Tomatoes I grew outside the low tunnel survived, but were well behind the rest and did not produce as much.

Dennis Lanigan wrote:Andrew, I would consider getting Growing West of the Cascades by Steve Solomon (if you haven't already). Ideas like having a low tunnel hoop house for the first month of setting out tomatoes and peppers pretty much made my garden last year. Tomatoes I grew outside the low tunnel survived, but were well behind the rest and did not produce as much.

I ordered it!!! can't wait to crack that one open.
Amazon recommended to me that I also buy this one http://www.amazon.com/Perennials-Pacific-Northwest-Plants-Gardens/dp/1570618933/ref=pd_sim_b_3
Not sure if I want to, I'm putting it on my wishlist for now, Maybe it will be my reward for reading Steve Solomon book.

Andrew, another thing to consider--if you have the time--is making small Hugelkultur beds. The rainy NW, especially Aberdeen, is a perfect place for Hugelkultur because of the lack of rain during the Summer and all of the biomass lying around (fallen red alders and oregon ash) to soak it up. I made a few hugel beds last year in Olympia, WA and they worked really well. Everything I planted in them survived (until deer took them out) the entire dry Summer, which was almost nine weeks without rain. No regular garden can do that.

What is Hugelkultur? There's a page about it on this website http://www.richsoil.com/hugelkultur/

Here's Sepp Holzer books, originator of the Hugelkultur idea, available at your local library system (Aberdeen Timberland Library) http://cat.trl.org/uhtbin/cgisirsi.exe/?ps=B5yGNKmocd/AM/301440632/9

Edit: I wanted to add: if you want any proof of this idea look at the forests all around Aberdeen! They are able to survive without water for weeks and create some of the most biomass per sq ft--and largest trees--in the world. Why is this? Hugelkultur is a great introduction as to why.

Dennis Lanigan wrote:Andrew, another thing to consider--if you have the time--is making small Hugelkultur beds.

I am making 4 Hugelkultur bed with cottonwood, 38 ft long by 6 feet wide, 1 foot deep and 2 feet high. (3 feet)
Let me know what you think.

Dennis Lanigan wrote:Andrew, I would consider getting Growing West of the Cascades by Steve Solomon (if you haven't already). Ideas like having a low tunnel hoop house for the first month of setting out tomatoes and peppers pretty much made my garden last year. Tomatoes I grew outside the low tunnel survived, but were well behind the rest and did not produce as much.

Hi Dennis I have been going through the "Growing West of the Cascades by Steve Solomon", Allot of the book I am disliking, it seems like allot of on going work many of the suggestions in the book, like fertilizing, tilling the soil.

I do understand that almost any book is going to have the good and the bad, I see that you like the low tunnel hoop house, what else am I trying to pull out of this book? what are some of your favorite parts?
I've read only 1/4 of the book so far.

Hi Andrew,

I agree. Tilling is not a good idea. But it is used selectively even by permaculturists. I recommended his book based on the seeds you have bought and seeing that it's your first year I thought tilling and Steve Solomon's strategy might be the way to start. I really don't think tomatoes and peppers are going to make it coming out of a first year huglekultur bed in Aberdeen. Potatoes and kale definitely. But not heat loving, water needing plants like tomatoes, eggplant, peppers, melons...Even Lasagna/mulch style gardening doesn't work in the Northwest because the slugs love to breed and hide in it during the last part of the rainy season, which is the crucial part of the growing season for tomatoes, kale, etc. Steve Solomon's book has nothing to do with Permaculture, but everything to do with serious backyard gardening in the NW so you have food this season. And yes, ignore his obsession with fertilizers. But do get a soil test! (the county extension can recommend where). I can almost guarantee your soil is low in Calcium.

Solomon's book is also helpful for when to sow and plant things. Another great book is the Maritime Northwest Garden Guide. For some reason it's really expensive on Amazon. But it is normally priced at Orca Books in Olympia.

Take slugs in the Northwest. Permaculturists don't call slugs a problem, they call it a "lack of ducks" problem. The problem is the solution, right? Well that's nice if you thought ahead of time and have ducks. Until then I would get some Sluggo--as all NW garden books recommend--for all the slugs that will appear all over your tomatoes, carrots, and brassicas come May/June. But ideally you would get some ducks, like Ancona ducks.

My favorite parts of Steve's book are the chapters explaining when and how to plant almost everything. Each vegetable is a challenge unto itself and having a guide to each one is so helpful. For example, Steve's trick of putting compost or peat moss over carrot and beet seed rows is crucial for mid-June planting, because otherwise they will dry out and not germinate. Little tricks like that make or break a season. Have you grown starts inside before? If not, that's another favorite part, as Steve explains it all step by step.

(As an aside, and for inspiration in the future, if you want to meet some hardcore permies doing amazing stuff I would look up Matt at Feral Farm and the Bullock Brothers on Orcas. Matt specifically is anti-greenhouses and agriculture and may be up your alley if you want to avoid tilling altogether in the NW)

One more suggestion: I would really consider transplanting that Quinoa.

GVWotC has a lot of great information, but is tailored to some degree for Willamette Valley conditions. Just keep in mind that you will have less summer heat, more and earlier rain than his advice sometimes expects. You really can't beat it for regionally focused advice, although Carol Deppe's The Resilient Gardener is also good.

As noted, pay careful attention to his advice against excessive mulch. While one solution to slugs is ducks, you then need the solution to ducks, which is paddocks, and the solution to raccoons, which is guns and sleepless nights. Unfortunately, there is no magic solution that takes the work out of growing a vegetable garden.

Dennis Lanigan wrote:Hi Andrew, really don't think tomatoes and peppers are going to make it coming out of a first year huglekultur bed in Aberdeen. Potatoes and kale definitely. But not heat loving, water needing plants like tomatoes, eggplant, peppers, melons...Even Lasagna/mulch style gardening doesn't work in the Northwest because the slugs love to breed and hide in it during the last part of the rainy season, which is the crucial part of the growing season for tomatoes, kale, etc.

I am hoping my chickens will help with the slugs they will be selectively let into the garden huglekultur bed. (some of the huglekultur beds)
The other huglekultur I am doing next to my barn, so I am hoping there will be some heat gain. I know there will be a huge water gain for that bed, as it will get half the run off of the barn on to it.
I am also hoping that the Fungi Allies I bought will also do some additional "magic", and I am totally willing to do something with plastic tunnels and or glass (but maybe next year).

Dennis Lanigan wrote:
Steve Solomon's book has nothing to do with Permaculture, but everything to do with serious backyard gardening in the NW so you have food this season. And yes, ignore his obsession with fertilizers. But do get a soil test! (the county extension can recommend where). I can almost guarantee your soil is low in Calcium.

What should you suggest as a single application of soil augmentation for Calcium, I was thinking medium size volcanic rocks with fungi allies, and this should help with anything the soil is lacking. I was hoping the cottonwood and fungi allies alone would be enough, but if as Steve Solomon says, the whole area has been growing without any calcium for hundreds of years... Maybe there won't be any in the 50 year old cottonwood I am putting into the ground.

I'm ok if my seeds don't work out that will be ok, I will try some different things next year, and I will have lots of failures, and I am on these forums to try and get some guidance but I don't like Where this Solomons guy is coming from "Baby your Garden Plants that why they taste good, spread them out, give them lots of space, have them want for nothing". It all seems very scientific, allot of on going work, and not allot of trusting in nature and letting things self select, I also understand that we can't throw out all of traditional gardening, I'm going to weed a little, and space my plants out a bit and use allot of fungi, rocks and woodchips.

Dennis Lanigan wrote:
Solomon's book is also helpful for when to sow and plant things. Another great book is the Maritime Northwest Garden Guide. For some reason it's really expensive on Amazon. But it is normally priced at Orca Books in Olympia.

I will add orca and this book to my wishlist.

Dennis Lanigan wrote:
Take slugs in the Northwest. Permaculturists don't call slugs a problem, they call it a "lack of ducks" problem. The problem is the solution, right? Well that's nice if you thought ahead of time and have ducks. Until then I would get some Sluggo--as all NW garden books recommend--for all the slugs that will appear all over your tomatoes, carrots, and brassicas come May/June. But ideally you would get some ducks, like Ancona ducks.

I would like to do ducks, but i need to create a duck pond, which is something I can do, later, I love duck meat.

Dennis Lanigan wrote:
My favorite parts of Steve's book are the chapters explaining when and how to plant almost everything. Each vegetable is a challenge unto itself and having a guide to each one is so helpful. For example, Steve's trick of putting compost or peat moss over carrot and beet seed rows is crucial for mid-June planting, because otherwise they will dry out and not germinate. Little tricks like that make or break a season. Have you grown starts inside before? If not, that's another favorite part, as Steve explains it all step by step.

I haven't got to that section yet, but I am using garden calendar at www.smartgardener.com , and that carrot trick sounds great.
I have not grown starts inside before, I am going to this year, and I will read that section of Steve book next!

Dennis Lanigan wrote:
(As an aside, and for inspiration in the future, if you want to meet some hardcore permies doing amazing stuff I would look up Matt at Feral Farm and the Bullock Brothers on Orcas. Matt specifically is anti-greenhouses and agriculture and may be up your alley if you want to avoid tilling altogether in the NW)

Thanks.

Bill Dubiya wrote:As noted, pay careful attention to his advice against excessive mulch. While one solution to slugs is ducks, you then need the solution to ducks, which is paddocks, and the solution to raccoons, which is guns and sleepless nights. Unfortunately, there is no magic solution that takes the work out of growing a vegetable garden.

Bill your killing the dream with your logic.

Bill Dubiya wrote:If it is not already in your plans, you are probably going to need some protection for a lot of those. Not much summer heat in these parts. It is very difficult to grow a pepper outside of a tunnel and only a little easier to get a ripe tomato. Melons probably won't work without supplemental heat. Amaranth, quinoa, and sunflowers need to be planted very early to get them to finish before the late summer rains start and there may not be enough heat to get mature seed from amaranth. Winter squash also tough (start early and transplant) but summer squash is usually OK. On the upside, all the greens and brassicas and root vegetables should be easy and can be grown year-round. A high tunnel should help with everything except perhaps the melons.

You have it a little better than we do at the coast, but temps dip into the low 40s every month of the year and rarely exceed 70. It is hard to grow anything that needs to be warm and dry because, although we do dry out through the summer, the low temperatures mean slow growth, so many things don't mature before they get soaked.

If given enough water, mini melons will do well in a hoop house.