joe pacelli

John Wolfram wrote:Based on Esther's description of herself, and my own personal interactions with those dealing with mental health issues, nothing seems particularly out of place in this story. I hope they find a place where they can thrive despite their disabilities.

http://estheremery.com/sarah-bessey-bears/:

I'm still a kitchen-phobe with a long history of bulimia and anxiety,

Nice lit review, John

Jami Gaither wrote:

paul wheaton wrote:
And I'm betting me and Esther's Mom would likely find synergy too.  My assessment, for what it's worth, is that Paul triggered Ester (being just like her mom) and the rest was justification for bad behavior.  I've had that with people and have even just simply asked, "Do I remind you of someone?" when I find an unexplained over-reaction in an encounter.  Mostly people can be really unaware of this human tendency.  

I love everything you've written, and, with regard to the topic of this thread I just wanted to add something here (and I think you will agree with my addition):

Esther actually triggered Esther    

K Putnam wrote:Everyone here has lost due to thankless arguing on the internet.  What a disservice to the instructors for your course and the people who participated in your Kickstarter.  And the comments both on this thread and the YouTube thread just make everything worse for everyone.  

What's probably the most sad is whether this will affect how people view in the information from your instructors because they are now affected by this brouhaha.  What a waste.

Paul, I've unsubscribed from Patreon not because of the video but because of how it was handled here.  I am 100% sure neither party is blameless in this meltdown and I don't find interpersonal train wrecks educational nor entertaining.

I'm sorry to observe your expressions of degrees of sadness, your sense of loss, a lack of fulfilling education, and feelings associated with not being thanked on the internet. I want to thank you for trying to make things better for everyone.

As a kickstarter supporter, I feel more like a winner and much better off today, knowledge-wise, than I did before the PDC & ATC. I don't feel like the PDC & ATC were a disservice.

I actually experienced more reward,excitement, and entertainment than I was promised when I initially supported the Kickstarter. There was at least a 45 minute, erudite analysis and mature discussion of how to handle human excrement which has not been discussed in detail in any other Lawton or Mollison PDC that I've previously completed.

In terms of the instructors you reference as being disserved, what an amazing experience. Finally, a PDC that included a gaggle of instructors with experience- all respectfully sharing their experiences and expert knowledge every single day!  The first day, the lead instructor (trained by Geoff Lawton) actually deferred topics involving temperate climate permaculture to members of the course.  

I respect that you feel your support of the kickstarter and PDC was a waste, and personally it wasn't sad or a waste for me.

paul wheaton wrote:

joe pacelli wrote:  I was watching the feeds during the talent show debates and saw it forming (versions 1.0, 1.1, and 1.3-- i missed the off-camera ones).  I would humbly suggest that they do not represent all eco level 2-3 folks.  

Oh, speaking of red flags, when 1 non-leader, non-teacher person in a group makes statements that they are speaking for everyone, that's a red flag.  It is a boundary violation of the course norm.  Maybe there could be a "big red flag" award

I think I handled myself extremely well in face of ...   a poorly presented "suggestion"?    How did it look from your professional perspective?

I think you were quite patient and provided more than ample time for the talent show exemption 'suggestion' to be repeatedly expressed.  Any sane student with an axe to grind would have left those discussions feeling like they had been "heard" and not insulted.   Despite the difference of opinion, you held true to permaculture tradition for your certificate.  I think that's quite honorable.  

paul wheaton wrote:

joe pacelli wrote:That video they posted says more about their judgment than anything else.  Some people just have to play the victim role in order to justify their own irrational and contradictory behavior.

I would speculate, and I am no psychologist, that they:

1)  hornswaggled me and felt some shame about that.  In the end, they did come up with a solution that goes back to being fair, but it did leave me screwed because it was presented during the pdc instead of months earlier.  I think they felt some shame about not being good communicators earlier.

2)  that lead to them showing up a day late and not videoing the tour.  Compounding shame.

3)  Then there was the big blow up.  The volume knob was a few notches past "too crazy."  All in the face of me that did not respond in kind.   More shame.

4)  Shame leads to resentments and now everything that they see about me and my place is through shit colored glasses.  Which lead to weird demands.  Which lead to their powerful need of activating "might makes right" to the best of their ability.

Again - just some speculation on my part.

I like your speculation and description of shit colored glasses.  Spot on!  I share space in the world of psychology.  Shame and unexpressed resentments can lead to many fucked up demands, misbehaviors, AVOIDANCE OF RESPONSIBILITY, and dramatic displays.  Unless someone is hacking one's head off with an axe, big blow ups are unproductive.  These anger explosions give more insight into the mentality of the person throwing the temper tantrum, rather than their target.  

Remember that this is your land, your vision, and your community.  People deify Bill Mollison, but even the great Bill Mollison said that the reason he put permaculture into motion is because he was royally fucking pissed.

Keep being you.  

The Fouches just posted an video example of what happens when eco level 2-3 folks come to an eco level 8 learning event.   They apparently bring their righteous judgment with them.  I was watching the feeds during the talent show debates and saw it forming (versions 1.0, 1.1, and 1.3-- i missed the off-camera ones).  I would humbly suggest that they do not represent all eco level 2-3 folks.  

Oh, speaking of red flags, when 1 non-leader, non-teacher person in a group makes statements that they are speaking for everyone, that's a red flag.  It is a boundary violation of the course norm.  Maybe there could be a "big red flag" award

Let me get this straight- In their video, the story in their heads is that 2 parents brought their kids into an allegedly "unsanitary" environment with "emotional abuse" and "red flags", and yet they kept their kids in this environment so they could keep YouTube content flowing??? Sounds pretty sane to me.

That video they posted says more about their judgment than anything else.  Some people just have to play the victim role in order to justify their own irrational and contradictory behavior.

I recall very early in the permies podcasts, before the acquisition of the labs, these points were established:

A) not really grooving on the whole 'bring your kids to work' situation
B) the lab will be a fiefdom
C) he reserves the right to make whatever rules he wants

Seems crystal clear to me.

Nice job on Day 2.  Some issues with the portable rig with lots of moving parts, but a work-in-progress.

Currently getting the stream offline message, really looking forward to tomorrow/later this AM  !

paul wheaton wrote:

Nicole Alderman wrote:Tee-hee, it looks like you're going to have to make more stretch goals. You're only $217 away from $80,000!    

EDIT: Never mind, you made it to $80,000 before I was even done posting!!!

The funny thing is that I would have days where I would try all sorts of stuff to draw attention to the kickstarter and it would bring in $1000 in day.   So if you set a stretch goal, you would think "If I work hard, we might hit that in four or five days!"   So yesterday I got the stretch goals announced at about 1 in the afternoon and then we blew past both of them before I had a chance to look and see how we were doing!

Congratulations Paul !  Isn't behavior amazing when it surpasses expectations?  "Build it, and they will come".  I'm pretty sure you've also made permaculture history (again!)  There's a whole lot of stacking functions going on with this kickstarter as well.  

paul wheaton wrote:Idea for a $75,000 stretch:   make a drone video of basecamp before the pdc starts.  This will be an edited video and made available to all supporters at $75 and higher.  But since all designs will be about basecamp, this will help with people trying to understand how to make a design as well as people trying to understand the designs they see.  This will be of especially great value to the people that will be doing designs online after the PDC ($250 reward level)

Idea for a $80,000 stretch:   For the people that support at the $250 level, they make a design and it gets reviewed in a conference call with other students.   I will arrange for two other permaculture instructors to be part of those conference calls.

Go for it.  These are awesome.