Permaculture Technology Course--dehydrating, solar, rocket stove, woodchoppinh
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of podcasts, multiple DVDs, and written dozens of articles and a book. As the lead mad scientist at Wheaton Labs, he's conducted experiments resulting in rocket stoves and ovens, massive earthworks, solar
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of podcasts, multiple DVDs, and written dozens of articles and a book. As the lead mad scientist at Wheaton Labs, he's conducted experiments resulting in rocket stoves and ovens, massive earthworks, solar
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.  Focusing on some of the PEP stuff (Rocket week, Roundwood week, Greywater weekend, Foraging week, etc) might be a way to focus interest in an area that one instructor could support.

Managing
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An immediate way to mitigate the excessive draft would be to mostly cover the feed tube with bricks or a piece of cement board after loading, to a point where you still hear the rocket but not too
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://permies.com/t/58650/a/69636/dimensional-sand.png" alt="PEP Dimensional Lumber Woodworking"> <a href="https://permies.com/wiki/98989/PEP-Badge-<B>Rocket</B>">
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://permies.com/t/58650/a/69636/dimensional-sand.png" alt="PEP Dimensional Lumber Woodworking"> <a href="https://permies.com/wiki/98989/PEP-Badge-<B>Rocket</B>">
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Domination Gardening 3-DVD set
      - 100 hours of PDC
      - 77 hours of ATC
      - Rocket Ovens DVD
      - 6 decks of Permaculture Playing cards
      - 6 decks of Food Forest cards
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     - 77 hours of ATC
     - Rocket Ovens DVD
     - 6 decks of Permaculture Playing cards
     - 6 decks of Food Forest cards
     - The big podcast gob


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Domination Gardening 3-DVD set
      - 100 hours of PDC
      - 77 hours of ATC
      - Rocket Ovens DVD
      - 6 decks of Permaculture Playing cards
      - 6 decks of Food Forest cards
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[quote=thomas rubino]So Mart ; When are you firing it up? OR When is the big explosion???
No , Sorry Mart couldn't help myself!
Nothing wrong with your idea.  Are the heater hoses 3/4" ?

When are you going to try it?
[/quote]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP3bcPvgIG8



Boom Squish...


I have tried it,  water is too hot to shower with directly....  I guess for right now I could put the water to a 5 gal bucket and mix it with cold water till it is the right
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So Mart ; When are you firing it up? OR When is the big explosion???
No , Sorry Mart couldn't help myself!
Nothing wrong with your idea.  Are the heater hoses 3/4" ?

When are you going to try it?
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I have taken a stainless steel coil and put it in a pan in my rocket stove, so I have created a heat exchanger. I have found that this out put water comes out at a temp that would be a little too
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Hi Tim;
Welcome to Permies!  And Welcome to Rocket science!

Yes you could exit the building thru the window.
But at that point you would need/want insulated pipe up past the ridge line of your
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Hi all.  I'm really interested in rocket mass heaters and wondering if I build one in my basement can I exhaust the chimney out of an altered standard basement window which is just above grade?  I
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.

https://donkey32.proboards.com/thread/3503/double-shoebox-rocket-mark-ii
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Well, russian types of masonry heaters build less creosote, because they're run full blast, like a rocket.  But still, they're generating some, because their fire is not insulated, and these don't
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) which might be misleading(?).
I think that on the rocket stove and a PVDB batch box stove there is the Heat Raiser, which produces:
- High temperature - solving the creosote creation problem
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for an inch of ceramic fiber insulation around the bb exhaust, and that insulation should continue up to the minimum height according to the recommended riser length  for that size rocket stove, and from
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(this part is good with a toddler), and ‘see what came up’. Usually some combo of kale/ mitzuna/ silverbeet/ broccoli/ rocket /bok Choi / amaranth / other greens. All the free stuff the Diggers Club send
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- the berm shed (4 gift codes)
  cool public thanks

$5 CANDY
  full movie “Rocket Ovens”
  eBook "Building a Better World in Your Backyard" (gift code)
  9 PDC evening presentations (about 20 hours
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)
  cool public thanks

$5 CANDY
  full movie “Rocket Ovens”
  eBook "Building a Better World in Your Backyard" (gift code)
  9 PDC evening presentations (about 20 hours) (one gift code
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Great job
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Thanks very much for your answers! Is very helpfull. I will start now to read and process all this info.

If I have any questions I will let you know .
This is really interesting!!!
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Hi Oski;
Welcome to Permies!
So it sounds like you want to build a batch box rocket mass heater?
Do you know how to make one?    Have you been to Peter Bergs website ?   https://batchrocket.eu/en
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Hers a video of such a system:
https://youtu.be/MMVOC8-Vvk8

This was built over 6 years ago by Matt Walker,one of the top rocket stove innovators.
Since then he has created
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Hi!
I am planing to build a rocket stove. Is it posible to have the fire chamber with 3 glasses so you can see the fire from different angle?
I was trying to find some info about that but couldnt
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Hi Korrine; Welcome to Permies!

Well you might say I'm in the neighborhood, little over an hour away from you, in Trout Creek.
You might enjoy visiting here, to see three different RMH's in use . Two batchboxes and a J tube.

I might be able to consult for your build.
I have already been tentatively approached by a lady named Trudy from Hot Springs.
I suspect she could be a part of your group.

Check out my RMH webstore    https://dragontechrmh.com/

Send me a purple moosage thru
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Hello, we are looking for a person(s) with experience building rocket stoves to help us construct a rocket mass heater for a greenhouse gazebo, and potentially a cob sauna heated with a rocket mass
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Welcome Richard!  Its great to see people striving to integrate RMHs into current code restrictions - I think it really helps with their adoption and acceptability.

Do try some different wood - notably different widths of wood.  Its generally the case that the closer the wood is to kindling (the more surface area it has) the faster/hotter it burns.  There are also significant differences in the quality (density) of the wood and how well dried it is.  For instance although I love burning
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Hi Richard; Welcome to Permies!  And Welcome to the world of Rocket science!

Nice clean build you made there Rich looks good!
Is that a 6"or 8" rocket?
I think that wrapping ceramic blanket
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So one of my most anticipated projects has finally come to fruition. I built a rocket stove in my garage. My goal was to build it to code in Ontario Canada even though I'm pretty sure no inspector
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I just got the Cob style rocket mass Heater streaming from $10 to $7.  I rated it five stars!  
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[quote=Laura Rutherford]Hi Nicole,
I bought and rated Rocket Ovens streaming. Didn't see a way to leave a review - that would've been fun!
Hope the stars help anyway.
L[/quote]

They worked
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Hi Nicole,
I bought and rated Rocket Ovens streaming. Didn't see a way to leave a review - that would've been fun!
Hope the stars help anyway.
L
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]
Cob style rocket mass Heater streaming from $10 to $7
Rocket Oven, streaming[/url
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://permies.com/wiki/63855/Wood-Heat-DIY-Rocket-Mass#544902]4 DVD Better Wood Heat Streaming
8 DVD Better Wood Heat, Streaming
[url=https
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to try to get these set up on Gumroad today and tomorrow. Any preference on which I start on first:

Rocket Oven streaming
[url=https://permies.com
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The price for gift codes is different than for buying the item for yourself, so it could be that's why you were charged differently? I think both of you already owned Care and Feeding of a Rocket
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for the first time), chose all the squares with boats and, voila - one Care and Feeding of Rocket Mass Heaters video - thanks!

It didn't appear to charge any tax, but here in Canada we have G/HST, not VAT
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It worked great in Greece!  Now to learn how to feed my unborn Rocket Heater....

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the squares with boats and, voila - one Care and Feeding of Rocket Mass Heaters video - thanks!

It didn't appear to charge any tax, but here in Canada we have G/HST, not VAT, whatever that's worth. Out
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]

Care and Feeding of a Rocket Mass Heater $3 $1


Non-US peeps[/b
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-Rocket-Mass-Heaters#418269]Care and Feeding of a Rocket Mass Heater

Excellent Nicole thank you very much!!
I'm yet to find a forum as good as Permies for non-US residents so
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://permies.com/w/123014/Building-World-Backyard-audiobook-mp]Building a Better World - Audiobook (mp3/zip)
[url=https://permies.com/wiki/51811/Care-Feeding-Rocket-Mass-Heaters
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/Building-World-Backyard-audiobook-mp]Building a Better World - Audiobook (mp3/zip)
Care and Feeding
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]Building a Better World - Audiobook (mp3/zip)
Care and Feeding of a Rocket Mass Heater[/list
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I'd be concerned that the "warm butt" portion of the rocket mass heater would become a less tenable proposition.

But...
A bank of solar salts in the basement with an option to turn a fan
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That looks great!  I'm glad your oven is working so well.  
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Today I insulated the front door of the oven.    HUGE difference.     I will need to cut back on the wood as this burnt the edge of my pizza in short order.

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 this.

When I was done with the pizza I had all kinds of coals left.    I turned that into biochar.     Multiple functions from a rocket oven is superb thing.
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35 minutes is super fast!

I think your pizza would be tastier if you get the temperature up closer to 500 degrees, but the speed of your fire is impressive.
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I have found for me the perfect fuel for my rocket oven is bolivian sunflower stalks.     It burns like card board thus fast and hot when they are dry, and give me an even burn that keeps the temp
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If I were heating an IBC with an external hot air source, I would run the flue in horizontally near one corner and around the walls to maybe the opposite corner and then up. Maybe around three walls, if the exhaust after a two-side run was still quite hot. Holding the flue about a foot off the bottom would allow feet to stretch underneath for more roominess. A bench built a few inches above the flue would protect skin and give a needed function of seating. I would give the flue a slight
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[quote=Karl Harasyn]
What in hoping this would accomplish by having the top of the heat riser submerged, with a jacket around it before passing exhaust is to extract the maximum amount of heat from the fire while also keeping the burn chamber and heat riser hot (as opposed to the water pulling heat directly from an unjacketed heater such as a commercialy available hot tub snorkel stove).
[/quote]

I just want to revisit this  - its a perfectly understandable approach to put as much of the
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of the features of a rocket which is the wood gases encountering sharp bends which promote mixing and better combustion. If the wood is burning in the feed before it reaches the bottom, the flames will need
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Thanks for the reply and welcoming to the forum Eliot.

I've got a few questions, and some answers to what I'm thinking.

What is a "5 minute riser"?

What are your concerns about submerging the bell?



I would plan to make a gasket as you say, and bolt the flange up to the tank, I was leaning that way to be able to remove it if need be, and wasn't aware about the difficulty of having something like an RTV gasket stick to the tote.

And I was visualizing the top handle of the
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Also ...

I don't remember my propane tank sizes ... around here a 4" round cross section is generally considered the minimum size for an RMH.  So make sure that there is enough room for that diameter of pipe.  

If one tank isn't tall enough, just weld another one on?
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losing thickness under the assault of temperature and friction.  My observation is that steel rocket stoves that hold up are probably not working well and not getting hot enough... so a steel one
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https://permies.com/t/154112/Pocket-Rocket-snorkel-stove-pool

And I think having the heater inside a vessel will solve the problems in point 4 and 5  from Eliots response in the thread above
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.

It's from a thread in here: https://permies.com/t/18110/Welded-Garage-Rocket


Maybe the size of a 20# tank won't be large enough to get a proper height riser?
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Okay guys, I'll start with a quick introduction, I've been interested in rocket stoves/ rocket mass heaters for a number of years, and google yields a lot of results from this site, so I figured it's
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bring and prepare your own food on the rocket stoves, rocket oven, solar cookers, haybox cookers, etc.[/nestedlist]

This thread is for discussions that embrace Paul's crystal ball prediction. We
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bring and prepare your own food on the rocket stoves, rocket oven, solar cookers, haybox cookers, etc.[/nestedlist]

This thread is for discussions that embrace Paul's crystal ball prediction. We
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compete strangers at the craft fairs we used to frequent , with RMH lore...  
I'm hooked, Its a rocket scientists life for me!    
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Thanks Thomas! Do you do actual builds in your area? How much do they cost if so? I am really curious about whether they are viable for people who aren’t up to designing and building their own.
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Hi Lina;  
Excellent synopsis of your reasoning for your choice.
All of your concerns / questions are very valid points.
I believe you made the correct choice in your situation.

The structural strength of a floor is a big hurdle to overcome.  In your case you had asbestos to deal with as well.
As an experienced  builder and now a RMH parts supplier.  I completely understand about the uncertainty of "HOW DO I DO THIS???" "Where do I find This???" There are just not that many
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Agreed, J.O.!  I do wonder what a contractor/stove builder who knows how to do it would charge.  The materials are cheap, but take a lot of labor, at least for cob.  So how much would it cost to have a pro install a pebble style?  How would it compare in upfront cost to the conventional wood stove? Could you get a model where DIYers such as myself could pay a local company to consult, handle the paperwork, and do the "don't do this at home" bits - like ensuring the chimney and venting is
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I think a lot of people have a very similar story, myself included.
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and money to install a rocket mass heater. With everything else going on around here, the time component meant it would probably take years. The alternative was to get a fireplace insert that slotted
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I have finished the 3rd prototype, with two bells. The cooking surface directly over the riser (an old piece of fireplace flue, and yes I'm aware there are problems with that) got pretty darn hot. The cooking surface beyond got hot, but not hot enough to cook anything. The outside of the flue liner was still cool at the end of the test.

Nothing has been insulated yet, and it's not sealed.

I still need to work out the jtube feeder. Right now I'm feeding wood directly into the burn chamber
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Hm. :) Nope, I lit the candle so I could use it to start the fire rather than lighting more matches. I didn't even think of using it to start the draft.
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Tip for starting fire: As you found a candle works good for generating enough heat differential to start the draft. A much more economical answer is to ask for the waxed cartons that wet produce is delivered in to stores. These are unrecyclable problems in the waste stream but very repuposeable for fire starting. Strips of them will burn just like a candle. Start strips back in the burn chamber then strips with kindling in the feed chamber. This should provide good starting but as you observed
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reasons? Is there any way to prevent this?

I did hear the rocket for a while and it was venting a great deal of heat through the "chimney" without any smoke during that time.

Also, I am
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In your dry climate you will see any weathering effects much slower than in an average moist and cold environment. If you use firebrick for the structural elements (and any kind of brick outside the hot core), and protect the core area from most precipitation, your installation should last for decades. A metal cover that can quickly be set aside when fire is desired would be very effective. You might not even need that much - I don't know your climate well enough to be sure.
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[quote=Glenn Herbert]A second bell would only be useful for extracting more heat into a mass, which is irrelevant to your case. You would want to have the exhaust from the bell below the bottom of the oven so that the hot gases flow all around it, but much more does not seem to be useful for your purposes.

The temperature at the top of the second chamber would be less than the temperature at the bottom of the first chamber, and several hundred degrees lower than the temperature at the top of[/quote]
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I think building a second layer of brick and sand would be a bunch of work for mediocre results, and you would be much better off just wrapping a few inches of fiberglass around the firebrick riser and securing it with wire or chicken wire - most anything light and noncombustible.  

A second bell would only be useful for extracting more heat into a mass, which is irrelevant to your case. You would want to have the exhaust from the bell below the bottom of the oven so that the hot gases flow
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No, I'm not extending the heat into the bench. The bench will just be there, to be sat on. The rocket stove (NOT mass heater) will be set back into soil, with soil underneath and (theoretically
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So you are thinking of one bench with a J-tube rocket at each end? Each of these would need to be separate, one feeding each half of the bench, to work properly, so the design issues are basically
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I am considering an outdoor rocket stove which will be surrounded by soil on three sides, probably set into a cob bench on either end. Will that be sufficient insulation, or would I still need
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Thanks Glenn, I'll do some head scratching and see what I can come up with.  Got a nice scrapyard nearby so I might pay them a visit to see what materials they have laying around or an nearby HVAC boneyard.

I'll post up again when I start moving forward again
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Small systems might be trickier to start, that would depend on the details, but principally, you run into surface-to-volume effects. The smaller a system is, the more surface there is to create drag and take heat from the combustion stream, relative to the amount of heat generated. Volume is relative to the square of the surface, so combustion quantity is less and generates significantly less heat. At the same time a smaller system has less energy to flow, the surface drag increases. A smaller
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Hi Glenn & thanks for the replies and I have a few questions / clarifications

Regarding the size, I've read that smaller systems are difficult to make work, but what doesn't work?  Are they hard to get started, keeping them going or something else?

The flue piping will get covered with cob in the shape of a bench to sit on.

[quote=Glenn Herbert]
What kind of firebrick are you using? Heavy dense ones, or soft light ones?
[/quote]
Not sure, how do I know?  Some say Butter on them and
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Addressing your overall situation, I think you would be much better off, both in reliability of function and in warmth given, going to a 6" system. If you have some more firebricks, you can make a J-tube core that is not much larger externally than your 4" core. A 6" J-tube can be reachable for cleanout without special ports. For workshop heating, you probably want more instant radiator than storage mass.

A batch box core will give more heat with less frequent loading, but that is a
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Welcome to Permies, and to rocket science!

What you show is essentially a 4" diameter J-tube system, which is at the extreme small end of what can work for a rocket mass heater. Most who
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Got pretty cold this last weekend and had a rough time working in my 1,500 sf pole barn at 35 deg so I started on this project.  Idea is to put this in a corner or behind another workbench when not in use but roll out, attach a flexible tube or maybe a hard pipe and vent the flue gas out a window or a permanent spot in the wall somewhere.  After completion & a little testing, plan to make this into a bench - the seat maybe a bit high in which case I'll add a step, maybe with a hinge to keep it
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than a coffee table novelty, that scales, as I said, that's a winner.  I have just started reading and I get it, rocket stoves/masonry stoves are a better deal. that said such a Stirling engine could
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This is a system concept that I made up, not a finished design. It *should* work like this: rocket mass heater is fired, it heats the “hot” end of the Stirling engine, the Stirling engine generates
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[quote=paul wheaton]

I wish Greta would give a shout out about some of the stuff we are working on.  Maybe my book.  Or maybe even just rocket mass heaters.


[/quote]

To make that happen
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wish Greta would give a shout out about some of the stuff we are working on.  Maybe my book.  Or maybe even just rocket mass heaters.


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make pizza in my rocket.




So that's a black oven?

Yep, black oven. I love it.
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[quote=Satamax Antone]Modified the stove again. Laid some firebricks on the whole front of the "barrel" To cut a bit of direct heat.

And the final answer is, yes you can make pizza in my rocket[/quote]
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Modified the stove again. Laid some firebricks on the whole front of the "barrel" To cut a bit of direct heat.

And the final answer is, yes you can make pizza in my rocket.

https
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the firebox is not everywhere under, i can regulate the heat by moving the pot. You should make yourself one of those rocket. Perfect for cooking. But if you don't need the heat, forget it!
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Hi everybody!

Edit: Guys and gals, lots of pictures are at the bottom of this thread. It takes a long while to load. The thing has evolved into a 220mm batch rocket
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Thanks Chris.
In today's stove chat (episode 38), Matt Walker mentioned a lot of the same things about the 4" that you did while showcasing an example.
I've run a 6" J for many years and could not imagine going smaller unless a person was right next to it and dedicating themselves to feeding it very small wood quite often.
Appreciate your willingness to experiment though and mention your findings so that we all can learn and grow from as well.
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Greg,

The thermosiphon ventilation you speak of in the bench sounds like a good idea to keep the floor from overheating. Wonder though if it would also cool off the mass a lot quicker once the fire is out? Akin to not covering the feed tube once burning is complete and stopping draft from carrying the heat out of the mass.



The 4" is a PITA. Part of this experiment was to see if we wanted to go to 6" even in small spaces. With such a tall feed tube I would say probably. Eventually I
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Nice job Chris.  
The thermosiphon ventilation you speak of in the bench sounds like a good idea to keep the floor from overheating. Wonder though if it would also cool off the mass a lot quicker once the fire is out? Akin to not covering the feed tube once burning is complete and stopping draft from carrying the heat out of the mass.

Is the feed tube secured to the body or is it just resting there by its own weight?

The tall 4" feed tube opening seems like it would be hard to get the
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https://youtu.be/XNnoRbblEmQ

In September 2020 we had another opportunity to visit our friends at Permies.com and work on rocket mass heaters for their cabins. This one
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firewood racks
  - find quick and easy ways to upgrade rocket mass heaters
  - make improvements to the bun warmer space
  - evening with the bun warmer plus a tiny camp fire in the middle (with our
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Is there room in the winter camp? I love the idea of tinkering with fences and rocket mass heaters. How abiut a winter solstice celebration too?? I'm in the Pacific Northwest and looking a working
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[quote=Julia Winter]Rocket Sauna is an excellent winter project!  Combine with a polar plunge pool . . . . [/quote]

Yes, Love a polar plunge!!
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Rocket Sauna is an excellent winter project!  Combine with a polar plunge pool . . . .
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My impression is that once the greenhouse is done, josiah is gonna make his own rocket sauna.  Not one for everybody - just for josiah.  Like that?
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If there is still interest in the rocket sauna, my [url=https://permies.com/t/121573/permaculture
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fence at basecamp:   Winter is the perfect time to build junkpole fence at basecamp
  - equipment maintenance
  - we run rocket mass heaters and other rocket contraptions. Winter is the best time
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https://youtu.be/KDlHcRznfbg

A couple months ago we showed you the end results of our cob mass bench build that lets us put Rocket Heaters in tiny houses and rooms with raised
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I use the cast iron pipe flanges in those barrel stove kits to build my CottageRocket tiny house heaters so I have  lot of those cast iron legs left over.
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That is one beautiful bench, the form and function come together so well!
Did you have the legs left over from buying kits and just using the doors?
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These are half barrels connected in a 9' x 9' L shape filled with about 12 inches of cob with a 6 inch stove pipe running through it. No plate steel, no thin cob.
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So guess you had a lot of steel plate supporting that unknown cob plaster that is very thin.  Cute fan.  So just testing a model.
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https://youtu.be/3KILb7afTC4

We wanted to give you all a quick tour of our latest test bench with the wonderful Gamera Rocket Heater: Together they make a Rocket Mass Heater
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Hi Ann;    Big Welcome to Permies and another big Welcome to the Wonderful world of Rocket science!
I second John's suggestion.  
Come on over to the RMH forum and I'll fix you up with some
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Oh yes, welcome to Permies!
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Hi Anne,

You may want to post this question under Energy/ Rocket Stoves.  I am sure you will get some excellent replies.
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Thanks for making the videos downloadable - suits me much better.   Great stuff if you want to make the traditional RMHs.
However, the main reason I bought the videos was to find out exactly how to make the batch box version that is part of the 4th video, since after much research I came to realise that would suit me and my circumstances much better.  So I was very disappointed to find out that there are no specific details about how to make it.
The rest of the info is worth having but would
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=intl&topic_id=69260]$130 |
[/table]


Here are some of the benefits of rocket mass heaters:

• cheap to run. About a tenth the cost of natural gas
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I have plenty of space in my iPad, still 179 GB.  My iPhone Has 48 GB free. They are both updated to newish versions, I can find out numbers if that’s helpful. When I try to download any of the 4 files I just get the black screen with the play button crossed out and no downloading.

We tried downloading to my husbands laptop which uses Microsoft/windows and the first one worked so I guess it’s just an apple issue (or user error on apple?) if someone more techy than us has ideas on how to
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From my email:

[quote]I just bought the newer main 4 downloads for better wood heat but they won’t download to my iPad or my iPhone. Each time I try it just comes up with a black screen, with the play button crossed out in the center. I assume your download is compatible with Apple products or you would’ve mentioned it so any idea what am I doing wrong? We really want to watch these and hoped to have the version available on our phones for when we are building...? But if it won’t work maybe[/quote]
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About two minutes ago, I got word that the narration in the videos is garbled.  Specifically, if you go to the first video (cob style) and listen to the very beginning, at 0:00:08 I say "permies.com".  It sounds fine to me, but it sounds garbled to this other person.

I am using VLC on linux.   The other person is using the media player in windows.

So solve this, we first need to understand if the video has a problem, or if it is a fluke on the other computer.   So we need data.  
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=intl&topic_id=69260]$130 |
[/table]


Here are some of the benefits of rocket mass heaters:

• cheap to run. About a tenth the cost of natural gas
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[quote=Gerry Parent]Pictures would be very nice as well if you can.[/quote]

should be doable. I've got a couple months of studying ahead of me that may interfere for a while, but I'll certainly document it when the time comes.
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this type of information that is seriously lacking with a lot of those you-tube rocket stoves that everyone thinks are great, but then you never hear from again. So I for one am very interested in your
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have preferred to heat up. and I didn't like the mess from bringing firewood into the sauna. otherwise, it's been great. certainly not the most flawless rocket in the world, but I don't feel too bad
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wow.. that's a huge work. I watched the process because such things inspire me deeply. I don't have an opportunity to build my own real sauna now, but I made my dream (part of it, actually) come true by building a near infrared portable sauna, a few years ago. Now I use it in our bathroom, which is very small. I prop it up against the bathroom door once it’s closed. I then sit on my Squatty Potty and face the lamps. I rotate every 5 minutes or so in an effort to get my whole torso exposed. I
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Thanks Tel.

I am happy to hear it does the job well though.

Look forward to seeing what you come up with in the future.

Cheers,
Rob
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not much to report. it works pretty well, but there are certainly things I would do differently. it will probably be a year or so, but I'm planning a rebuild that should make it fit the space better. mostly, the heat exchanger needs more surface area, and some more mass would do it some good. it won't need near as much mass as a typical RMH installation, but it cools off in there more quickly than I would prefer after the fire goes out.

I never gave the cob any kind of finish, so it doesn't
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of pulling out our typical wood burning sauna and going Rocket Heater styles. I am a total newb with this stuff, but I would think a metal screen around the barrel filled with stones would look great and work
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went ahead and welded some fins onto the outer barrel. I think there are six at the moment. 1/8" gauge, 1.5" wide flat bar 30" long. they seem to be improving things.

previously, I've had some occasional smoke into the room. nothing serious, and probably more of an issue with the punky pine I was burning than with the stove. today, though, there was no smoke. it also seemed to heat up with less wood. I haven't measured, since my wood shed is full of many different species and I don't think a
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exchange pipe to increase surface area would improve the performance of the stove. having read Ernie's thread about add-ons
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haven't fired it up yet because it doesn't have a top on it yet.  haven't had much luck contacting the welder I'm hoping will make the top for me.  my working plan is to put the rocks on the top when I get it.  it'll be quarter-inch flat steel a little bit wider than the riser.  depending on what the welder says, I may have a little bit of a lip put around the perimeter to hold the rocks in.

if it isn't obvious yet, I started on this project
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Have you settled on a place for the stones yet?

I've been puzzling it over and I'm in about three different minds for my own project.

I thought about heating them in a metal oven style device which would sit in a second box between which the hot gases would flow (a bit like the 3 barrel baking oven at aprovecho).

Then I thought that perhaps an oven type box which had the gases fed in directly might work. These are both a bit like the Russian system banya.

The question is
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the benefits of smoke saun and I've been thinking that the rocket stove would lend itself well to that style.


I've thought about going the savusauna route, but this one puts
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the benefits of smoke saun and I've been thinking that the rocket stove would lend itself well to that style.
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did another course of clay brick yesterday.  might not be pretty, but it's progress.

http://firstchurchofdirt.org/pictures/kiuas/mess.jpg
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a little more progress today.  a couple of days ago I added perlite/clay insulation around the riser and capped it with some clay and sand that was on the sloppy side.  I hope that won't be a problem.

http://firstchurchofdirt.org/pictures/kiuas/freudian.jpg

today I added the top of the burn tunnel and another course of clay bricks.

http://firstchurchofdirt.org/pictures/kiuas/slowlyslowly.jpg

I also chickened out a few
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for three hours.  very nice.

I do think a rocket heater will do the job.  my design isn't really a rocket mass heater, because there isn't much mass.  there will be maybe one hundred
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you think a rocket mass heater can do the job?  I’ve not seen one in action. 
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[quote author=Mark Vander Meer link=topic=5766.msg56262#msg56262 date=1294634471]
I’ve attached a photo of a two-room sauna we built last year.  Took 12 days start to finish;  raw logs to fire-up.  Had a sawmill on site, one logsmith who knew what he was doing and 4 men who know how to move logs and pound nails.  Took about 8000 board feet of logs and lumber.  This is fired with a good-sized steel wood burning stove, buried in several hundred pounds of rock. It takes about 3 hours to get to
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I’ve attached a photo of a two-room sauna we built last year.  Took 12 days start to finish;  raw logs to fire-up.  Had a sawmill on site, one logsmith who knew what he was doing and 4 men who know how to move logs and pound nails.  Took about 8000 board feet of logs and lumber.  This is fired with a good-sized steel wood burning stove, buried in several hundred pounds of rock. It takes about 3 hours to get to somewhere around 200 F. 
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[quote author=ronie link=topic=5766.msg55406#msg55406 date=1293811159]
Tel, you present a problem that may not have a simple solution. You are making a connection of dissimilar materials at the same time you are changing the shape from cuboid to cylindrical. To compound the problem you are doing it at a place that will be changing temps from cool to very hot in a short period of time and be subjected to direct flame for long periods.

it's a good point, but I'm not sure it
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then more cob can be added later with out compressing the fiber.  I've never used this in a rocket stove as I've yet to build one, however I've used this in other application the fiber
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Tel, you present a problem that may not have a simple solution. You are making a connection of dissimilar materials at the same time you are changing the shape from cuboid to cylindrical. To compound the problem you are doing it at a place that will be changing temps from cool to very hot in a short period of time and be subjected to direct flame for long periods.

The steel will expand much faster than the firebrick and any high temp joint material that i can think of.

I suggest a design
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Yes, it was VERY interesting!  Thanks!  I especially liked it because the "how-to" I read was part of a series on making a forge.  If I'm understanding this right, the home-made firebrick could be used in making a kiln for making charcoal, but would be next to worthless in making a forge you could use to (for example) make a sword or a plowshare.
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Muzhik: from http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Firebrick

I bolded the stuff that I felt might lead to an answer for your question. nice catch, tho not quite the same use for the low fire (pourous) bricks.


The proportion ... depends on the nature of the clay and the purpose for which the material is required, but generally speaking the more plastic clays require a higher percentage of a plastic material than the less plastic clays, the object being to produce a clay mixture which shall dry and
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First post here.... I've been researching for a stove for our pottery studio, leaning toward some kind of rocket/bell configuration, probably all cob.

I just wanted to tell you though that even
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Question:  I remember reading a "how-to" on making your own firebrick.  The process involved mixing straw with the clay before firing.  The straw would burn, leaving air pockets in the brick.  It was these air pockets that both gives firebrick its insulating properties and also let it float.

Shouldn't you be mixing straw with your cob in order to create firebrick?
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MAybe. oyster shell wont burn, calcium carbonate has a higher  temp tolerance than cement. I tpicall get unscreened sand from a landscape supply in longview and screen it myself for that kind of grit. I pull about 1/5-1/6 of the volume per load that way. kept me chugging on stuff last summer. tsugawa's is probably spendy. you shouldnt pay more than $12 a load for unscreened. youll need some fiber free course cob (ffcc in the house!) for packing the burn chamber walls as well, eh? and
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[quote author=tel jetson link=topic=5766.msg55348#msg55348 date=1293746522]
right.  there is definitely straw in there, so I'll tear it out and try again.  sharp grit is the ticket, then.  check.


next question: where do I find sand like you're recommending?  hardware stores and contractor supply in town are no good.  rock/sand/bark place in town is no good.  ready mix plant has sharp sand, but it isn't very coarse and I don't need a ton.

I've
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right.  there is definitely straw in there, so I'll tear it out and try again.  sharp grit is the ticket, then.  check.
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it looks like you have straw in that mix? cant tell exactly from the photo, but I'd suggest no straw in contact with anything above @250f. itll just char out and leave voides and then you ll get crumbles. if it is straw, get rid of it and make a clay and jagged sand stiff mix- something that is so thick and gritty you dont want to mix it in bare feet. no fiber. the mix should be a stiff one. use that and it wont burn voids into the seal, it'll turn to brick.
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[quote author=Deston Lee link=topic=5766.msg55342#msg55342 date=1293745358]
The way you describe is pretty much what Ive done with the p/c mix in the past. I should be able to come the third of jan. after the turkey oven fun.


sounds good.  what do you think about cob for the junction of the pipe and bricks?  will that stand up to the heat there?
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The way you describe is pretty much what Ive done with the p/c mix in the past. I should be able to come the third of jan. after the turkey oven fun.
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coming right up is the insulation for the riser.  my plan is perlite and clay slip.  Ernie mentioned going light on the clay, which I'll try to do.  beyond that, is there a good technique for mixing up the perlite and clay?  previously, I've just dumped them all in a plastic basin and mixed it all up with my hands.  seemed to maintain a fairly light mix.  is that a satisfactory method?
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set the heat riser today.  there wasn't enough room to see a spirit level in there, so it's only as plumb as my eyeball.  cobbed around the base to seal the joint.

I imagine that's going to be a fairly hot part of the stove, so please let me know if there's a better material than cob before I bury it in insulation.

http://firstchurchofdirt.org/pictures/kiuas/mudbutt.jpg
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progress has been slow, but we finally cleared a major hurdle.  probably won't be the last problem before the project is over, but I'm feeling good for now at least.

finally went with the block and tackle to lift the pipes into place.  I climbed in a very small space to have a look at the stoutness of the ceiling, and determined that Erica's suggestion at the beginning of the project would work just fine.

climbed in
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I'm not absolutely sure, but chances are pretty good that I'll be around.  your help would be great.

working through some more ideas for setting up the pipes.  I'll repair today's damage in the morning before we get out of town, and see if what I'm thinking of makes any sense.
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im back in pdx the23. 9pm. prolly stay the night there. whats yer plan for the christmas eve? youd be a good one day or overnight layover on my weary wendt home. We could lift heavy stuff and grunt in archaic fashions.
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[quote author=Deston Lee link=topic=5766.msg54171#msg54171 date=1292534682]
Im assuming the 16" pipe is to big to simply lift over the top of the burn chamber? Or too heavy to lift, but you have enough height?

if you cant lift due to size constraints, an internal collar assembly- i think you could make it out of wood, and it would burn out.

mmrg. sorry my travel fairies are going rouge.   IM busing out post haste, I just got together a trip to see a friend of mine whose been moved
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Im assuming the 16" pipe is to big to simply lift over the top of the burn chamber? Or too heavy to lift, but you have enough height?

if you cant lift due to size constraints, an internal collar assembly- i think you could make it out of wood, and it would burn out.

mmrg. sorry my travel fairies are going rouge.   IM busing out post haste, I just got together a trip to see a friend of mine whose been moved into hospice. Ill be back after the fat man burns. 
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disaster!

well, maybe not disaster, but certainly the first major setback.

the walnut oil was taking far too long to cure, so I ended up using some high-temperature paint for the wall side of the big pipe and the two tile-backer heat shields.

today, my sister and I tried to set up the pipe assembly.  we got the 8-inch pipe inside the 16-inch pipe laying down next to the stove without too much trouble.  standing them up caused all sorts of problems.  the smaller pipe kept
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[quote author=ronie link=topic=5766.msg53071#msg53071 date=1291901906]
I wasn't thinking of using the duct tape to draw a line. I was thinking of the tape as being the line.
But maybe it won't stick to the pipe.


ah.  that could have worked.  duct tape wasn't sticking very well.  too much metal dust on the pipe, I think.
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I wasn't thinking of using the duct tape to draw a line. I was thinking of the tape as being the line.
But maybe it won't stick to the pipe.
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I thought of that, then didn't do it.  don't know why.  probably just needed one more hand than I have.

I've also got some aluminum tape hanging around that would probably work, too.  at this point, I'm satisfied with where the ends are.  I could change my mind, though, and these ideas will help.
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I suppose I should say, you wrap it around the pipe, pull it taught and then mark with a sharpie or similar.
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You can use a 25' metal tape measure to mark your cut line. I use that for marking PVC pipe when doing drain work. I've only gone to 8", but it should work.
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duct tape is too flexible.  wouldn't make a good line.  I ended up using some butcher paper.  probably wasn't perfect, but I think I got both ends to a place that was close enough.

did some other boring stove work today.  coated the big pipe with walnut oil.  mixed some ceramic stuff in with the oil for the side that will face the wall for some extra insulation.  painted that same mix on the wall side of the exhaust duct and the stove side of the heat
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duct tape?
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I'm still not sure I've got anything that will work for that, but I'll have a look around.  I'm a little embarrassed that I didn't think of such an easy solution.
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[quote author=tel jetson link=topic=5766.msg52928#msg52928 date=1291831902]
any other ideas?  I don't have a piece of sheet metal large enough.


perhaps a roll of paper or cardboard

most anything that could be made to lie flat on a cylinder might work
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[quote author=wardd link=topic=5766.msg52923#msg52923 date=1291831088]
take a piece of sheet metal that will fit around it and draw a line


any other ideas?  I don't have a piece of sheet metal large enough.
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[quote author=tel jetson link=topic=5766.msg52892#msg52892 date=1291826373]
I think that would work, but I would probably go through several of those blades getting it done.  this is .255-inch steel pipe.  I figure it would take me roughly the same amount of time as the angle grinder, and I've already got the grinding discs.

in case I do decide to go that route, though, how would I draw a good line to cut?


take a piece of sheet metal that will fit around it and draw a line
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[quote author=wardd link=topic=5766.msg52878#msg52878 date=1291819872]
get a metal cutting blade for a circular saw, any big box store should have them.


I think that would work, but I would probably go through several of those blades getting it done.  this is .255-inch steel pipe.  I figure it would take me roughly the same amount of time as the angle grinder, and I've already got the grinding discs.

in case I do decide to go that route, though, how would I draw a good
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[quote author=tel jetson link=topic=5766.msg52855#msg52855 date=1291791228]
any tips on how to face the ends of the 16-inch pipe?  the initial cut with a torch wasn't exactly precise, and I've already spent rather more time than I would have liked with an angle grinder.


get a metal cutting blade for a circular saw, any big box store should have
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reasonable ideas.

I don't have a cutting torch.  I could probably drag one over from across town, but I don't have the steadiest hands.  the welder who cut the thing is 200 miles away, so I don't think I'll be dragging it back to him.

the problem isn't just the burrs, though.  the cuts on both ends are pretty crooked.  between 1/4 and 1/2 inch between highest and lowest points.  I guess I'll spend some more time with the grinder to get it
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[quote author=tel jetson link=topic=5766.msg52855#msg52855 date=1291791228]
any tips on how to face the ends of the 16-inch pipe?  the initial cut with a torch wasn't exactly precise, and I've already spent rather more time than I would have liked with an angle grinder.


Um... I'm an infrequent metal-worker at best, it sounds like you've identified the main problem and tried the standard solution already. 

Is the 16" pipe the one that's substituting
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any tips on how to face the ends of the 16-inch pipe?  the initial cut with a torch wasn't exactly precise, and I've already spent rather more time than I would have liked with an angle grinder.
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[quote author=Deston Lee link=topic=5766.msg51918#msg51918 date=1291256273]
Tel, when I get back from my trip on the 14th or so can I come sauna? btw, I might have some chickens for ya if'n ya likes. loans or keeps. i have some travel to attend and cant keep them here....


if it's done, and I hope it will be by then, you'll be more than welcome to try it out.  and I hope you do.  may have to have a party to celebrate.
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Tel, when I get back from my trip on the 14th or so can I come sauna? btw, I might have some chickens for ya if'n ya likes. loans or keeps. i have some travel to attend and cant keep them here....
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[quote author=tel jetson link=topic=5766.msg51758#msg51758 date=1291171932]
nice.  I'm definitely going to try that.  any recommendations for the best oil?  I saw some expired walnut oil and grape seed oil and flax oil all for real cheap.


I'd grab both the walnut and the flax.  I don't know much about grape seed oil.
But the walnut oil is Ernie's preferred choice for the metal treatment. 
Flax oil = linseed oil without all the nasty additives, good for
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[quote author=Erica Wisner link=topic=5766.msg51711#msg51711 date=1291156462]
You can oil the metal like you would cast iron, with walnut or vegetable oil.  It does darken up a bit, but you get some of the metal sheen on the highlights, and it keeps it from rusting.


nice.  I'm definitely going to try that.  any recommendations for the best oil?  I saw some expired walnut oil and grape seed oil and flax oil all for real cheap.
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Expand View 59 more matching posts found in this thread
Welcome to Permies, Gil! You've come to the right place to learn about rocket mass heaters!
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Hi Gil;  Big Welcome to Permies!  And A big welcome to the world of rocket science!

An RMH is a Great way to heat your workshop!
Lots of information over in the rocket mass heater forum to read
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I have an unheated storage building/shop on my property that I can't use in the winter due to the inability to be warm. I'm looking forward to experimenting with a rocket stove to give me my
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same
Building rocket stove for use in a caravan
Building a simple living structure from locally sourced renewable materials - on a budget
Getting help for planting fast growing wood eg willow, hazel
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....if your son comes up with idea to make a rocket stove out of his magnet tile blocks, and fills it full of pencils for fuel and puts a potato fry from your garden in the "pot" on top to cook.
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You know you’re a Permie when …

It’s Spring here with +30C (95F) days, but all the ‘Northerners’ are experiencing Autumn and incessantly talking about Rocket Mass Heaters.

Rocket Mass Heater
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doesn't work, how are you going to heat the house?
M: rocket mass heater.
D: there is a hole in the wall, how are you gonna fix it if its rotted?
M: it's a timberframe building. The hole is not near
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You know you're a permie when--after a stressful evening--your way of calming down before bed is to dream and plan out a rocket mass heater for a project that won't happen for at least 5 years
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bird feeders nearby.

...the visual of a tree unloading it's snow reminds you of a Rocket Stove vortex.

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Expand View 4 more matching posts found in this thread
and replace with pex. Hopefully that will be a little extra insurance against frozen pipes. I have plans on a mass fireplace/rocket stove and have plumbing for that. The keg is just another extraheat
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I think your results were pretty impressive.  40* water, 40* sidewalls and 40* earth immediately around the pool.  YOu have a lot of water and a great deal of mass to heat and 28* increase over 3 days is pretty good results.

I use 1/2" black irrigation tubing as a solar heater for our 15'x4' swimming pool each spring.  Just during the day in 70* temps it raised the water from about 60* to 80* in about 3 days.  Just a wild guess but your results do not sound bad.

Suggestions:
1)  Keep
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that most of the heat is just going out the exhaust.

 We just had a similar thread here (https://permies.com/f/260/rocket-mass-heaters) where some similar issues are discussed - basically I'd like to see
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Welcome to Permies!  I am afraid I am not of much help, but I am sure there are many here who will be.
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Rocket/Snorkel Stove made from a beer keg with 6"x2' feeder tube and 4"x5' vent. I sunk the keg about 2/3. I thought the fire burned good, but it didnt heat up the pool like I thought it would. 3 days
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Expand View 4 more matching posts found in this thread
https://youtu.be/puZbXZBnqIg

People have been asking for a followup to our Unboxing videos. How do we like the Liberator from Rocketheater.com? we liked the Gen I enough to keep it for three years and buy two of them. We love the Gen II. Here's the #shorts. If you really want more details join us at https://patreon.com/unclemud where I go into more depth in my patron only videos. $1 per month supports our Fire and Mud fun.
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https://youtu.be/R0RWyij5MlM

FULL LONG BORING UNBOXING VIDEO!! We are excited to have the privilege of testing the new American made Gen II Liberator Rocket Mass Heater from
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https://youtu.be/XhCX0KWmJ6w

So how does the 2nd generation Liberator Rocket Heater from rocketheater.com fire? Nice and hot with a clean burn. Stay tuned for a full unboxing
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https://youtu.be/mGagCAYy0u4
What's inside the 2nd generation Liberator Rocket Heater from rocketheater.com? A heat riser and burn chamber lined with replaceable ceramic boards
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https://youtu.be/RCc6PQ8_Wxs

we are very excited to be testing the 2nd generation Liberator Rocket Heater from rocketheater.com. stay tuned for more shorts and a full unboxing
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with currently uses Peter’s batch box Double ShoeBox Rocket design, and harvests the heat indirectly (after it has gone through some cooling by dispersion — by warming a mass of basalt pebble and sand
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, so would be ideal to boil/heat two pots at same times...

i thought of J shaped rocket stove like the one in your diagram, and then making somehow a top skirt that envolves both pans, probably
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[quote=Glenn Herbert]Gap C between riser and pot needs to be at least 5 or 6 cm and gap D around the pot probably 2 or 3 cm; and you need a big transition area from the top of gap D to the chimney pipe - ideally a thick donut of airspace that the flue gases can flow easily around and reach the chimney. All of these are to avoid choking the draft. 8" is a pretty big system and I think as big as you want to get.

Depending on the consistency of the beer material you might have issues with[/quote]
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Gap C between riser and pot needs to be at least 5 or 6 cm and gap D around the pot probably 2 or 3 cm; and you need a big transition area from the top of gap D to the chimney pipe - ideally a thick donut of airspace that the flue gases can flow easily around and reach the chimney. All of these are to avoid choking the draft. 8" is a pretty big system and I think as big as you want to get.

Depending on the consistency of the beer material you might have issues with overheating and
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Hey Alan Loy (and others),

I took your advice and looked into designing a j-tube version of the Institutional Rocket Stove. I have looked around for something similar but can’t seem to find
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board

Mat Smith - So yes the plan is to have a 3 tier gravity system - no pumps - no HERMs just Hot Liquor Tank (HLT) - Mash Tun and Boil Kettle.
The plan was to use rocket stove heater 1
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the "rocket stove water heater 1" as the HLT, or setting it up to use as a hot water heater for other purposes in addition to the brewing?
Do you need the 200L all at once for 2 simultaneous batches
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Hi Dylan good luck with your brewery.  Beer is good!! (I'm from Oz so I'm biased)

The 1st rocket heater you listed is designed to heat water thats under pressure like in your water pipes at home
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direct fire on the pots. My plan is to add an electric immersion heater into the hot water tank to keep it at temp once I bring it up with the rocket, after that the pump will help keep the mash at my
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Hello!
I am pretty new to rocket stoves however in typical newbie fashion I have my sights set high for what I would like to achieve with one!
I am aiming to set up a brewery that is fired
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, at the bottom of a small hill, might be a microclimate a few degrees colder than Zone 6A.


Eventually I hope to grow citrus myself, but I'll likely need a hoop-house with geothermal *and* a rocket-mass heater
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goats, ducks, chickens, and horses when I was young.
- A wood stove. Or a rocket mass heater! I'd be willing to invest in a RMH in a long-term space.
- Shared property? If you welcome help with your
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-Shockey#370054
https://permies.com/wiki/44228/Mycelium-Running-Paul-Stamets
https://permies.com/t/44429/books/Rocket-Mass-Heaters-Ianto-Evans#370068
https://permies.com/t/19882/books
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-Shockey#370054
https://permies.com/wiki/44228/Mycelium-Running-Paul-Stamets
https://permies.com/t/44429/books/Rocket-Mass-Heaters-Ianto-Evans#370068
https://permies.com/t/19882/books
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Hi Collin,  Welcome to Permies! Nice to see a fellow Canuck interested in rocket mass heaters.

A clay flue liner or tube will not make for a very long lasting heat riser. It just can't handle
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Can a clay flu be used as the heat riser of the j tube in the barrel as long as it is cut to the right height? P.S. What is the correct clearance required between the inside of the barrel an the top of the heat riser?
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[quote=Joe Repella]I watch every video that I can find and have heated with wood for many years.  Want to build in my building have an auto shop and apartment all in one building so I am able to feed fires regularly, my biggest question is chimney draw in the fisher price house there must be a really good draw and you stated it was very hot.  Could you incorporate a damper in the system?    Thanks Joe[/quote]
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Hi Joe,

Welcome to Permies!
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I watch every video that I can find and have heated with wood for many years.  Want to build in my building have an auto shop and apartment all in one building so I am able to feed fires regularly, my biggest question is chimney draw in the fisher price house there must be a really good draw and you stated it was very hot.  Could you incorporate a damper in the system?    Thanks Joe
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A new video about the rocket cooktop at allerton abbey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJ1uZnDDu3A
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here is a list of all the rocket mass heaters and rocket stoves at wheaton labs.  there are links to their individual threads as well, some of them have great, super-detailed threads, some of them
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The allerton abbey

https://permies.com/t/99161/a/82667/thumb-BF97FC1F-3BE9-4274-A8FE-E7A72C3CC0B8.jpeg
Best before photo I have
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Adrien,
Cottage Rocket, Workshop Model
Here you go, thanks to Attilio.
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[quote=Adrien Lapointe]any more pictures of the cottage rocket mass heater? Some people are having difficulties to visualize it from the discussion in this [url=https://permies.com/t/74808/Uncle-Mud[/quote]
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any more pictures of the cottage rocket mass heater? Some people are having difficulties to visualize it from the discussion in this thread
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Tracy and I updated the first post a lot.   Anything we left out?  Any mistakes?

I'm gonna add this image to a few ...
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Every turn in the chimney is like adding feet to the length. After a few turns the chimney is in danger of not drawing. Thus the stove develops an airlock and the fire goes out (or smokes into the room). I don't know the formula for determining the maximum amount of chimney the stove could support, but in my early years of heating my home with a wood stove I made the mistake of putting too many bends in the stove pipe.
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kinda....but i was thinking with the duct work starting at the bottom and winding its way up to the top inside kinda like an old wooden marble machine toy, then filling in the wall with stone or something. instead of an giant open center.
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Brian - check this out - http://www.heatkit.com/research/2009/lopez-rocket.htm
(sorry for temporarily hijacking the thread.  back to your regularly scheduled RMH tour at Wheaton Labs)
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So I bought the dvd sets and Love the info off of them.
As I'm going through these i don't see something that I'm  curious if anyone has tried. Most of the piping runs on an incline then to the stack.
And all the pipes run in a mass for sitting on , etc. Has anyone tried to do a vertical mass against a wall?
My thinking is if someone had a basement like a dirt floor basement, running the pipes so they zig zag up the sides of the wall, then packed in with cob, masonary work or what have
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Wheaton Labs is in Montana, near Missoula.
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I've seen about 7 or 8 of these online already. I've been all over the highway, like horse tracks .

I really like the 8" batch box, near the top of your list.

Is your lab here in Canada?
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Evan is putting on some low cost workshops here - like $50 for a week - where you can try out heaps of rocket mass heaters:

https://permies.com/t/52318//PEA-Workshops-Permaculture-Experience
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here is a list of all the rocket mass heaters and rocket stoves at wheaton labs. there are links to their individual threads as well, some of them have great, super-detailed threads, some of them
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is an important source of heat in my design. The other is wood burning from a batch box rocket stove that would also heat water to go trough the concrete slab.

I agree with the idea of Roy Long
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tall sticks from falling out!  An open metal frame won't significantly alter the breathing of the rocket - I'm just thinking of four 1/8" rods with a horizontal rod wrapping around every 2" or so
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That sounds wonderful Luke! I wish you well on your new venture to make it easier for others to become rocket scientists.
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One great use for one of these would be to power a rocket barrel oven: https://permies.com/wiki/60370/Rocket-Powered-Oven-build-super
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several years back and was very impressed with the various rocket stove experiments. A year ago I built a rocket stove in a greenhouse from fire bricks. While building it I came across Walkerstoves.com
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mentioned pile of bricks and have rejected the rocket stove out of hand for various reasons, unsuitability to a traditional structure (weight/venting) and the need to feed the stove which could be a bad day
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[quote=Rob Lineberger]When you say wood burning stove... are you familiar with Rocket Mass Heaters?  If not I encourage you to read up on it.  This site is the perfect place to start.[/quote]

I
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When you say wood burning stove... are you familiar with Rocket Mass Heaters?  If not I encourage you to read up on it.  This site is the perfect place to start.
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