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[quote=Glenn Herbert]I think if you want to get more heat to the workshop side, filling the tile cores all the way to the floor would be helpful, so there would be no more air spaces to insulate the wall.
If you only want to prevent heat rising in the cores, you could stuff the cores with rags or something... umm, maybe something noncombustible :)... and only need a small amount of grout above the level of the heater top.[/quote]  Yes Glen, that's another option. I guess, full concrete blocks
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[quote=Satamax Antone]Modified the stove again. Laid some firebricks on the whole front of the "barrel" To cut a bit of direct heat.

And the final answer is, yes you can make pizza in my rocket.


[/quote]

So that's a black oven?
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I think if you want to get more heat to the workshop side, filling the tile cores all the way to the floor would be helpful, so there would be no more air spaces to insulate the wall.
If you only want to prevent heat rising in the cores, you could stuff the cores with rags or something... umm, maybe something noncombustible ... and only need a small amount of grout above the level of the heater top.
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[quote=Glenn Herbert]I think it would be fairly easy to cut into the tops of those hollow tiles and pour thin grout into the cavities to fill them. The question is whether that would prevent the wall from getting hot above the heater level. I am not sure of the answer.[/quote]

Yes Glen, it would. Since, here convection is the problem. I have may be 50/60 cm between the stove top and the beam, the wall is only 20. So heat would travel faster to the other side, than up. I ran it today, without
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I think it would be fairly easy to cut into the tops of those hollow tiles and pour thin grout into the cavities to fill them. The question is whether that would prevent the wall from getting hot above the heater level. I am not sure of the answer.
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[quote=Glenn Herbert]I have figured out the second IR photo, with the dark silhouettes of pipes running across the top. The 146.9C reading is on the surface of the wall just below the beam. The exposed beam is considerably cooler, but the back of the beam in contact with the wall would be as hot as the wall. I think quick action is advisable.[/quote]

Yes, exactly. The beam is at risk. I have asked a mate of mine,; how much it  would cost to make that wall, with full concrete blocks. I guess
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I have figured out the second IR photo, with the dark silhouettes of pipes running across the top. The 146.9C reading is on the surface of the wall just below the beam. The exposed beam is considerably cooler, but the back of the beam in contact with the wall would be as hot as the wall. I think quick action is advisable.
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By the way, I'm sure you know this, but hollow tiles I have seen have multiple rows of chambers, and you would need to drill through all of the partitions to allow the closest chamber to the heater to be vented, along with the rest of them.

Rereading, you did specify "nearly all the way through", so you and anyone following the thread for advice will be good to go.
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I think your idea of drilling holes at top and bottom of the hollow tile wall on the workshop side to vent excess heat is a good one for quick relief.

The infrared photos are not clear as to where they fit in the regular photo. Is it the beam at the back touching the tile wall that is overheating? Other beams? It would really help if you could add numbers on the regular photo to show where the hot temperatures were recorded.

I would also add a heat shield above the heater with lots of
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I have a metal heat shield on my ceiling, and asbestos-lined walls around the fireplace.
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Metal heat shields are entirely effective, and install quickly.

Added: think steel or aluminum roofing, in ribbed sheets. Make sure there is a good space from the wall, and a gap below for upward convection flow and cooling.
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[quote=Graham Chiu]Can't you just cover the rafters with the ceramic fibre blanket as a temporary fix?[/quote]

Nope, this is the wall overheating.

Have you seen the thermometer?

That's about 700c°
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Can't you just cover the rafters with the ceramic fibre blanket as a temporary fix?
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I know Douglas. It is not too close. But the bricks behind are hollow bricks. And the heat from the "barell's" back, which is in contact with those; rises up in the bricks.

The first step, I think, would be to drill holes in every  cell of the bricks,  nearly all the way through. On the backside. So the heat escapes on the cold workshop side.

And may be in spring, I will shutter and pour concrete in there. If the temporary fix doesn't work.

But if anybody has some other ideas.
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Hmm. Some reworking is in order. Way too close to the ceiling for my comfort. Heat shields needed!

The thing about wood is that every time it is heated past a certain temperature, it starts to carbonize a little. And over time, its ignition temperature decreases, and then one day ...

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Yeeehhh hhhhaaaaa!!!

But i admit i have a problem.

700C° or so in the oven, that's a first. -19C° this morning only -10C° at the time of the pic.


But my beams above the stove are cooking. It is said that wood can auto ignite at around 68C°, when well cooked.


But my beams and floor above are, on the edge, at about 130/150C°

The smell of cooking wood is present too. That is shit scary.

Anybody has an idea?

Sorry to other staff, but i'll start another thread about
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Well  everybody.

I have to admit, i have made a mistake. The first hit of proper winter has come, the last few days. Snow is falling outside.

https://permies.com/i/1034209/80629200_10206799567265178_7788405067916247040_o.jpg

If you look at this photo, you can see a very hot stripe next to the oven door on the right, going down to the cooking plate. I wanted to get rid of that "direct heat" feature, to stop overheating the flat.
So i piled firebricks in the  "barrel"
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Modified the stove again. Laid some firebricks on the whole front of the "barrel" To cut a bit of direct heat.

And the final answer is, yes you can make pizza in my rocket.

https://youtu.be/M21PCAoZD1A

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https://permies.com/i/1169630/121533992_10208017395230116_2212850780087693515_o.jpg

New thermometer between snorkel heat riser, and oven.
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Well, idin't clean up in spring. Firebox full of ashes, pipes most certainly caked with fly ash.

10C° outside, 17/18C° inside. Real dry ofcuts of my work.

It started without a glitch. No smokeback nothing.
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So, about a month ago or so, I did an experiment.

I have a metal lathe. And sometimes do heat and shrink assemblies. I had just discovered that the thermal camera on my phone goes up to 400c°.

So I shrunk the splined sleeve in the freezer.  Heated the sprocket in the oven.  And here is what it looks like.

The sprocket came out of the oven with a nice blued finish. Which is nice too.
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[quote=ronald bush]Cool image!  

Makes me wonder about a port on the left to even out the oven temps.very nice monster you have created! [/quote]

I find the oven  way too hot sometimes. So i don't know.
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Cool image!  

Makes me wonder about a port on the left to even out the oven temps.very nice monster you have created!
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https://permies.com/i/1034209/80629200_10206799567265178_7788405067916247040_o.jpg
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[quote=Graham Chiu]Isn't the top of the riser made of steel, and the pizza stone is sitting on top of that?[/quote]

The top of the riser (snorkel) is a gas bottle(or canister) lined with superwool. The refractory slab sits on that and on a ledge i've welded  at the door frame.  And is free between the tangent an,d the bell's walls.


I would have loved to have the riser to the right, and as tall as it was before.


But i didn't think at all about making a oven this way, till 3 or 4
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Isn't the top of the riser made of steel, and the pizza stone is sitting on top of that?
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[quote=Graham Chiu]That's a pretty thick pizza stone. How long does it take to transfer the heat from the underside to the cooking side?[/quote]

Don't know yet. And the heat riser doesn't exit under the stone.

I received my new thermometer yesterday. So i thought i would give it a try.  But i bet i can't cook until temps drop. I still had 20C° something in the sun today!

But by the time i do two or three fires a day. You bet that it will be pizza land!
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That's a pretty thick pizza stone. How long does it take to transfer the heat from the underside to the cooking side?
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Delving into pizza oven territory.

First burn ember stage. No flzmes

And reloading a forearm size branch. And a siding plank.

Flammes.

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in a few years time?

Yes Graham, but when you have no choice!

I had tried a metal cooktop on the firebox of previous batch prototypes, and that survived. So i thought my square "barrel
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And another batch!

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riser. With a weird shape uninsulated batch box, and V bottom secondary air. Running a 8.21 ISA all metal double bell?

Here it is!

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/703512WP001513.jpg?jfc
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Hey Max, your new shop batch-box prototype looks like it should throw some serious heat. Nice looking build.

That is an interesting heat riser made of double-wall Class-A? insulated metal chimney
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Hi everybody!

Edit: Guys and gals, lots of pictures are at the bottom of this thread. It takes a long while to load. The thing has evolved into a 220mm batch rocket
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with currently uses Peter’s batch box Double ShoeBox Rocket design, and harvests the heat indirectly (after it has gone through some cooling by dispersion — by warming a mass of basalt pebble and sand
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anything; most J-tubes and batch boxes seem to be for Mass Heaters not cooking.
See my design here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fvuidnz9cxe547i/diagram%2001.jpg?dl=0

As I mentioned I need to boil beer
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to California

Alan Loy - Thanks man really useful, good to hear from an Ozzie on the subject of beer!  ok I get you, I am familiar with the j-tube but will do some research on the batch burner...do you
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a batch burner.  The batch burner is more complicated to build but generates more heat for a given size.  If these terms are new to you then more reading on Permies and http://donkey32.proboards.com
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might try using your heat exchanger to pre-heat batch two while cooling down batch one. Then you can heat one batch of hot water and after you use that up you can refill it with the waste heat heated
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How about a build of a batch box with the new "off the shelf" components available from Dragontech?
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existing?
2. J tube with a bell - tiny house viable with lower weight? Have any leftover old red bricks for making the bell?
3. Batch box design -would solarium build be good for this, where a larger
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Glenn,  I am currently using rockwool insulation around my hard firebrick batch box core and it is holding up really well with a season of use. Don't think I would ever use regular fiberglass
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Hi Matt;  Looking good!    
Yes, it is normal in a closed batchbox for the entire pile of logs to be burning at the same time.
So I would guess that a properly vented open batch would do the same
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. Once the burn got going, it traveled down the wood toward the front of the box until all of the wood was burning at once (instead of the typical back-to-front burn.)
Is that normal in a batch box
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deflector to encourage the smoke to go thru the system rather than around it.

I can tell you from my  batch stoves, that indeed they really get going with the door open... they are also over fueling
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Mass Heaters with Ernie and Erica Wisner Part 2
podcast 413 - The Problem with Batch Box Rocket Mass Heaters - Part 1
[url
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Mass Heaters with Ernie and Erica Wisner Part 2
podcast 413 - The Problem with Batch Box Rocket Mass Heaters - Part 1
[url
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Got the stand made up and got the bottom firebrick bedded in sand!
Now I mix up a batch of mortar and start stacking brick!
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heater for 1 hour
start and operate a batch box rocket mass heater for 1 hour
[url=https://permies.com/wiki/106972/PEP-BB
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Howdy!

I reckon' I got me a Rocket badge:

- J #1: https://permies.com/p/998686
- Batch #1: https://permies.com/p/1081197
- J #2: https://permies.com/p/1081216
- Batch #2: http
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heater for 1 hour
start and operate a batch box rocket mass heater for 1 hour
[url=https://permies.com/wiki/106972/PEP-BB
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Would have liked to see the temp of water rise faster.

Did I guess at too large a gap between top of riser and water tank? The bottom of the water tank is curved inward, so higher in the middle. See pix
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Latest update - built a surround for the combustion chamber, filled it with ash for insulation. Outside temp of box while firing is ambient.

Frame made to support tank above. Heat goes between that filled tank and another cylinder inside a tank and a half 55 gallon drum, perlite between the last two, except some kaowool wrapped at top. Like a giant insulated pot skirt. Half drum on top of 55 gallon drum has hole for 8" stovepipe.

Water filled tank has a loose fitting lid, so not
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I replaced the brick heat riser with a cast clay/perlite one (molded in a peep hole for the thermocouple of the pyrometer, wrapped the casting with metal to protect it),
brought the port opening back down to the floor,
used a clay slip to stick everything together,
found a kiln shelf for the roof of the combustion chamber (height and fit issues made it better than using bricks in trying to solidly seat the riser, but concerned it might crack),
removed the P-tube and went back to a floor
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In the sketchup file, Peters floor channel stub measures 4 3/4" tall. The angled wing helps to direct the hot air into the top half of the port. I don't think its a super important figure to get exactly right just as long as its close. I think its the same for the distance away from the port - Enough room for air to flow freely around the stub but not too close to cause a restriction.
If Peter knows otherwise, I'm sure he'll chime in with corrections to my madness.



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Will have to check out the online sketchup program. Haven't been able to pull in skp files.
Have seen what's on batchrocket.eu - Designs. Didn't find a measure for optimum height of stub. Are you saying that the top of the stub goes half way up the port?

Distance from the end of the floor channel to the port at 1.5"? I was trying it at about 1", so perhaps not optimum. Combustion chamber was cleaner after a burn with the p-channel than the floor channel, but optimizing the floor channel
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To quote the person you want to address, just click the "quote" button. This will bring up a reply window with everything (words, links, pictures etc) in that post.
If you only want a part of the information, just delete what is not wanted, just be sure to keep the computer code "[quote  /quote]" there. Use the "preview" button to verify how your post will look before submitting.

Peter talks about where to introduce secondary air on his site using his floor channel: "The air flow is
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So my current thinking is to replace the brick riser with a cast clay/perlite one that will fire (harden, anyway, even if not vitrified) through use.
I have scrap clay from the pottery studio that fires at cone 6 to mix with the perlite.
ID will be 5".
10" or 12" OD?
Should this bring riser temps to where they should be?

If I go back to using a floor channel, what height should the stub be in relationship to the port size (one brick high)? And how far away from the port?

Should I
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Thanks for such a quick response!

"1) I see 3 great reasons why the floor channel is better than the original P-channel. The secondary air positioned on the floor of the firebox makes it easier to replace, the stub acts as way to prevent wood from clogging up the port and also to help super heat the secondary air. "
We tried a floor channel first, dimensioned like that in PVDB batchrocket.eu build, but missing the info on how high to make the vertical bit and how close to the port it should
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Hi Joan,  

Lots of things to consider with your build. Here are some suggestions.

1) I see 3 great reasons why the floor channel is better than the original P-channel. The secondary air positioned on the floor of the firebox makes it easier to replace, the stub acts as way to prevent wood from clogging up the port and also to help super heat the secondary air.

2) The small threshold just before the port modification you made. Was that to help keep ash from getting into the port? I
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to the hydronic system, so no Legionella concern. The intention is to fill the batch box a few times a day, depending on the temperature outside (central Kentucky), to keep the water warm. The water heating
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Hi Justin;
I do know a few things about Matt's stoves.  They are not a J tube design.  Nor are they a Peter Berg batch box design. Although closer to a batch than a J tube.
Matt's stoves are built
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.
It was completely safe when I installed it and I'm sure it still is. I'm moving it from an 8" J tube to a 6" batch
I would use one in smoker anytime.

I used 1" blanket from Walmart. I wore
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when I installed it and I'm sure it still is. I'm moving it from an 8" J tube to a 6" batch
I would use one in smoker anytime.
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approved. We are working on an ASTM standard for non-batch wood fired heaters that the EPA will accept as a burn protocol so we can get rocket heaters EPA tested so it is economically viable to produce
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Well, i have lived for four winters with a batch in my workshop. The flat being above.

It's perfectly doable. Mind you, it is not that simple. I have no door between the workshop and the lounge
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) with no fire. Only the basement would gain from the radiant heat.

There are options)  To start, in your location I would suggest building a batch box design RMH.  
You will not find much info
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Hey all,
Time for a new project. I used left over firebrick from my indoor batch rocket heater to build a 4" core.
I was thinking I could build a nice little efficient outdoor stove or oven
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bricks as everything else I tried was just too soft or tended to crumble way to easily.
Right now those bricks are installed into the back end of my batch box acting as a base for my heat riser [url
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an expensive and time consuming fiddly bit of work to make a batch rocket door. Sculpt a slanted cob lip to set the lid in, let it dry, and you have a closed fire chamber with a bit of a flame view.
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diameter with no real issues.
That makes for an 8" batch box with a 24" tall riser,  as measured from the base of the box, so fitting  it under an oven should be a non-issue.

Flip and John Anderson
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...  
I remember that feeling well on my first mass heater, and I have it now being on the verge of building my first two batch box's.
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and long mass is just a bit more than any insurance company is likely to cover. Unless the agent & the fire chief are also your drinking buddy's! :)    

Now, the newer style RMH (Batch Box) utilizes
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Thanks for that Erica,

BTW, when are you and hubby gong to write a step by step how to book on building batch box rocket stove(s).  Your J tube book was great, i'd certainly by a copy of one
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Thanks for sharing! This looks amazing!
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Did you know that Lasse Holmes' Sidewinder (a type of batch box) can also be used as an oven?

Not the "warming oven" over the firebox, though that does work as described.  (To re-heat, pre-heat
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I’m thinking about using some large soapstone tile to build up a small batch feed RMH. It will have a regular firebrick firebox and a ceramic riser, but I was thinking of using soapstone to enclose
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-stove-diy-build-feasible  
Here is a link to the formost batch building site ) http://batchrocket.eu/en/
Lots of red brick available over there and existing chimneys... You could have one as well
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Jason;  Build size on a 6" J tube is actually 5.5" x 5.5" square.    
8" pipe with 1" cf blanket is perfect as your riser.

There are different styles of rmh , J tube or batch box.  
A standard
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In the link that William provided, the fourth post by the user Shilo said: "after a lot of work and dozens of tests, the simple bottom line is you can do a batch box with just 40-50cm riser
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Hi William, do you think that applies to a standard j tube design, it seem that thread applies to batch box designs and that has since developed  onto the shoebox design?
It would be fantastic
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[quote=Fox James]That does not sound ideal to me, most rocket stoves need to be fed wood on a regular basis unless you up your game and build a batch rocket but that would be a bit extreme to heat[/quote]
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That does not sound ideal to me, most rocket stoves need to be fed wood on a regular basis unless you up your game and build a batch rocket but that would be a bit extreme to heat a little workshop
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: "the ring of fire" - a rocket mass heater shaped in a circle with glass to show the burn; an outdoor rocket mass heater/cooker/smoker; A "batch box style" rocket mass heater with measured output cleaner
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: "the ring of fire" - a rocket mass heater shaped in a circle with glass to show the burn; an outdoor rocket mass heater/cooker/smoker; A "batch box style" rocket mass heater with measured output cleaner than
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on top, 10 ft. x 10 ft. sections at a time. I thought about a cob floor but I think it will need to be more durable, I'll be doing some work shopping out there. Then I plan to build a batch box rocket
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extra insulation.  I'll use the rigidized fiber blanket for the ceiling of the batch box.

doing some searches today I came up with this thread which talks about several other approaches. Which may
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Remember those guys are into forges, which can go way beyond the temps rocket stoves and batch burners play with.  I think 1500 (F) is a nice high end mid range for us, while they run to 3000
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insulation.  I'll use the rigidized fiber blanket for the ceiling of the batch box.

doing some searches today I came up with this thread which talks about several other approaches. Which may give a harder
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part Quick Set, but I only used it in a test batch I made.
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My hi-bred  j tube can get well over 600c on top of the barrel, but I think a full batch box can get quite a bit higher still!
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Well Jeremy;
My 8" J tube , built old school with heavy firebrick can create an 8" glowing orange circle on the barrel top. Reads 1100F
That's pretty  hot.  
Mid riser temps on Batch box's run
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mass heaters.  Peter Bergs Batch box design would produce the hottest temperatures. Here is a link to his site http://batchrocket.eu/en/
Ceramic boards and ceramic fiber blanket in your core and riser
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Sometimes these mental tangents can yield new fertile ground for thought.  I have a fireplace on my first floor, directly above the fireplace in my basement that will one day become a batch box
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/40007/rocket-stoves/Results-batch-box-thingy-Innovators]8" batch box rocket mass heater in the shop/classroom

https://youtu.be/VL7O8qLXz24
[table]
|[url=https
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I've seen about 7 or 8 of these online already. I've been all over the highway, like horse tracks .

I really like the 8" batch box, near the top of your list.

Is your lab here in Canada?
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/40007/rocket-stoves/Results-batch-box-thingy-Innovators]8" batch box rocket mass heater in the shop/classroom

https://youtu.be/VL7O8qLXz24
[table]
|[url=https
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is the first stage to the bottom of the barrel. There are many batch box RMH designs these days and that seems to be the direction things are going. But both RMH and the masonry wood heater have the next
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http://donkey32.proboards.com/thread/1316/20cm-batch-rocket-stove-monster



http://donkey32.proboards.com/thread/848/18cm-inch-double-batch-system
http://s22315
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batch of biochar.

However the cans significantly aged after only a few cooks.  I get that I am producing heat well in excess of what they were designed for.  My question is how does a 55 gallon barrel
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This seems the things are going. Batch rocket stoves. Perfect the technology. Then get the codes. Questions...what is wanted in an appliance. Considering the doemestic application. Cooking. Hot water
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I think that technically, this would not meet code either because it is installed in a way that is different from standard. But it does feature a manufactured central element which might make a code official more comfortable in granting a variance. It really depends on the officials in your particular location and how knowledgeable, comfortable and helpful they are.
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What about the woodstove-rocket mass heater- hybrid idea? is there any benefit to it and would it bypass insurance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMUES-34Ioc
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ughhh. I thought I read that people were getting away with them. How do people do it then? or is it only in other countries?

I am in Maine, so yes it gets cold for a long period of time. I really really would like a radiant heater of some sort, there's got to be a way to make it happen. Just those masonry heaters are so darn expensive! Are those even covered too?

As for the concept of my house, this is how it is planned out.
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I don't think a batch box rocket will necessarily be anymore insurance friendly than a J tube rocket.
In the USA insurance companies like mass produced products with underwriter testing or handmade
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A batch box rocket can connect to a normal chimney, preferably just above floor level.
The best chimney is in the middle of the house, straight up, smooth and circular inside, insulated and ending 2
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stoves, but insurance won't cover them. So then I saw that one can sort of do a hybrid between the two and it is the batch box, if I am understanding correctly. I could just do a wood stove, but I
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Gerry, was that link the one you intended to have in your post?  It's a link to Erica and Ernie's book.  I thought you were linking to a cyclone batch system?
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Take a look at this stove and see if it is what your looking for. Its a batch box with some mass. Cyclone batch box
[url=https
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guess) around 50-100kg /m2 maximum.
- yes the old fireplace has a chimney and that's what we want to utilize as exhaust.
- I am confident So I'd like to know more about the batch box RMH.
- I
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a proper chimney that your going to utilize for your exhaust.
- In order to get a window to see the fire, a batch box RMH is the most common way to go. Depending upon your skills, it is harder
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water by the batch and let it drain into a old water heater, or even into the ground of the greenhouse.

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not be good or safe at all. Kind of like putting a VW beetle engine in a ferrari.
There have been others that have modified a conventional stove to make a batch box heater which I think is about
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Hi Dan, welcome to Permies!  Have you seen the Batch Box RMH's?  They sound a bit like what you're proposing.  Maybe there's some things in those designs that could guide your design.  
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results with a batch box core feeding your rocket. This is distinctly more complex and exacting, though, and will not work decently unless you follow exactly the dimensions and setup shown at [url=http
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://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkHOwmKyL7A

The cyclone batch style rocket mass heater might also work well in a tiny house
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We have a similar masonry cookstove here where I'm visiting at Wheaton Labs, originally designed by Lasse Holmes, using Batch Box dimensions.  
I have been baking bread, cornbread, yams, potato
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barrels for the bench and was planning to build a Batch Box Rocket / Stove Heater. As an amateur builder and DIY’er I quickly became confused and frustrated of how to make Peter’s design work for my home
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layout with low ceilings, 1400sq.ft. is a lot to ask of any mass heater.  The power output of this stove is roughly equivalent to a 6" batch rocket.  It may be enough, but I wouldn't want to say
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think they've already been answered.  My other half has been resisting an RMH for years, and I couldn't even talk him into a batch box because he still wanted something that was better for cooking
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Thanks for clearing that up for me
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The entire combustion core, firebox and riser, needs to be insulated. Not only do you want to keep heat inside until it has finished burning, but you need to protect the steel enclosure from exposure to the intense heat.
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If the firebox was left uninsulated the high temperatures needed to help promote clean combustion would be hard to achieve.

Additionally, the firebox (if made from steel) would degrade very quickly under the prolonged exposure to high heat. There are quite a few threads on the forums showing catastrophic failure of metal components in rocket stoves.
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Thanks
Mind why does the box get insulated?  I had thought riser was insulated
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Here's a photo upload test - fingers crossed...
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Ah right - thanks Thomas.

I thought I would have to link to some photo sharing site or similar on the web. When I return to base I'll give it a go

Thanks again.
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Hi John;
When creating a new post,  to add photo's you click on the box that says attachments.  Then click on the new box that's says upload a file.   That should take you to your photos
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I have a few Nick and once I've worked out how to share them on here(!) I will...
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Do you have any pics    This seems it would be easier  for me to modify a heater like this that has a nice door and latch setup   Vs starting from scratch as I want a nice door latch setup and want bigger then just using a 6 “ design and I want to turn it into rocket stove  like the first one in this post
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[quote=Nick Kendall]I am new to this but really like the idea you have using old stove as batch box had anyone else done this?  I would like to try this but would insulate the riser as well   [/quote[/quote]
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I am new to this but really like the idea you have using old stove as batch box had anyone else done this?  I would like to try this but would insulate the riser as well  
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Hello Jeff, do you have any pictures of the stove without the barrel so i can see how you configured it? I currently heat my split level ranch with an old fisher woodstove and am contemplating building a RMH but not sure what route i want to go. I figure if my old Fisher can keep the house cozy by giving off 250 to 300 degree temps, certainly a RMH could do that and much more at less the cost - and no creosote worries. More pictures the better...thanks!
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Insulating the riser would allow reaching operation temperature sooner, but that's not all. Insulation has also the effect of getting higher temps so more volatiles will combust almost spontaniously.
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[quote=Peter van den Berg]Hi Jeff,
Looks nice, I'll give you that. The top of the firebox is restricted/lined with firebricks but the sides of the firebox are still steel as I see it. Lining this also with firebrick, full or split ones, would help a lot in burning temperatures and through that, cleaner burning. I fully expect insulating the riser as well would raise efficiency again, gaining more heat out of the same fuel.
All that done, you would be able to add a second barrel to extract[/quote]
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[quote=thomas rubino]Hi Jeff ;
Neat little rocket stove you built.   I see one major problem.  Your barrel is still painted!!!  When that heats up, it is going to give off vast amounts of noxious smoke, really nasty stuff!!! I know its in a shop but still...

If that barrel is not getting  hot enough to burn off the paint then your not reaching rocket temps.

Its still a neat stove and if its doing the job of heating your area then it will do. Considering its  mid winter any working stove[/quote]
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Hm, neat. Now I'm trying to remember how big these Fishers got while retaining the handy 'more deep than wide' style.

Peter, if it's like the old Fishers I've seen, the bottom and sides already had firebrick, and that steel bit at the bottom of the 'roof' bricks is what held the side bricks in place.
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Hi Jeff,
Looks nice, I'll give you that. The top of the firebox is restricted/lined with firebricks but the sides of the firebox are still steel as I see it. Lining this also with firebrick, full or split ones, would help a lot in burning temperatures and through that, cleaner burning. I fully expect insulating the riser as well would raise efficiency again, gaining more heat out of the same fuel.
All that done, you would be able to add a second barrel to extract more heat. And burn the paint
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Hi Jeff ;
Neat little rocket stove you built.   I see one major problem.  Your barrel is still painted!!!  When that heats up, it is going to give off vast amounts of noxious smoke, really nasty stuff!!! I know its in a shop but still...

If that barrel is not getting  hot enough to burn off the paint then your not reaching rocket temps.

Its still a neat stove and if its doing the job of heating your area then it will do. Considering its  mid winter any working stove is better than none.
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Just finished my batch box rocket heater.  It is not a mass heater though, just designed to heat up garage.  Used a mama bear fisher stove, easier for our skill level and has the advantage of a well
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Thanks for the direction.  I started reading THE BOOK and understand a little bit more the issue.  The batch system might be a little more my speed.  I have a wood frame house that will need
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found where people have taken a wood stove and converted it into a batch rocket:

batch box conversion

[url=https://permies.com/t/92120
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[quote=William Bronson]Exploring possibilities on paper or pixels seems like a 100% good to me.
I have built a TLUD, bucket rocket, pocket rocket, batch rocket, and a J, none of them[/quote]
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tube verses an L design and see is there  more heat with either design?     Or say Peter's batch box, is it more or less efficient  than a J tube?

I just have questions like any 2 year old, I ask why
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The J-tube has been measured by those with the expensive professional equipment as being as or more efficient than a batch box, and is easy to build, even without exotic materials. Insulating
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Exploring possibilities on paper or pixels seems like a 100% good to me.
I have built a TLUD, bucket rocket, pocket rocket, batch rocket, and a J, none of them to specifications, all of them
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be the advantages / disadvantages.


I am considering mixing a batch of cement with sodium slicate and cast myself a  chimney to test with, probably best to make a small test sample to see if my idea
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Expand View 4 more matching posts found in this thread
://batchrocket.eu/en/]batch box instead of a J-tube core can put out a lot more heat for a given system size, though that is a much more technical build which has to be done exactly right to work
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.

Yes a square pipe on the bottom heating the air and feeding heated oxygen  the fury of the chimney just like Peter Van's design with a batch box.  


The same could be done
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a square pipe on the bottom heating the air and feeding heated oxygen  the fury of the chimney just like Peter Van's design with a batch box.  
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.
Perhaps I will add in from the other side a pipe like Peter has for bringing in more heated air as in a batch box design.


I see coals as an advantage in my case as I am looking to make charcoal
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This stove is for sale.  Make offer.  #1 what’s a fair offer?
#2 could I modify this to make a rocket stove?  Alternatively, a batch boxstove? If so, what approach would I use?  Brick burn chamber
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The batch box is definitely more technical and exacting to build, so your choice would partly depend on how handy you are and how good you are at interpreting and following precise directions. A 6
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for a batch box-so we might go that route-we'll have to do some measuring and see what will fit better.
The house is not really that well insulated, so we'd have plenty of airflow for a draft
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the newer design Batch box.  J tube is easy to build , Batch box is harder to build  but burns hotter and uses wood laid horizontal rather than vertical like a J tube.  


Myself, I have 2 RMH's I
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is the house?

I would say for 1000sqft, a 8  inch batch could do the job well. May be 6", if insulated to RT2012 standards. (if you can find that in english!)
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Trying to shorten the 1.5 - 2 hours of preheating to get oven to pizza temperatures

https://youtu.be/7wkN2pcmh2s
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Max, I was thinking we had hijacked the thread and was going to stop!
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I merged your stuff with the following thread. I hope that is okay by you.
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Hi Fox, in case you're not familiar with endocrine disruption, you can read this

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/854291

The problem with these things is that they form again as the temperature of the gases cool so you want the top of the riser hot as.

Regarding flat bottom woks vs round ones, I have to ask if you have ever built a flat roofed pizza oven for your customers?

And of course you get to see the flame so it may be easier to regulate the heat.

As for the apparent
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Ok well I guess we are all trying to learn on this forum but I was under the impression that the high temperatures required, were achieved at the end of the tunnel and the bottom of the riser, not at the top of the riser?

Anyway, anything that I can cook in a wok I can cook on my hot plate. 530c is extreamly hot to directly cook on! In fact i avoid the centre hot spot and cook on the 200-300c area.
It is crazy hot, so hot it frazzles virtually anything that touches it, I think that even the
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Hi Fox, that's correct.  You're okay as you're cooking on a steel plate, and the gases are being vented out a chimney away from you.

But if you want to cook on a wok, you need a raw fire stream so that the flame hits as much of the wok as possible.  So, I want as high as temperature as I can get at the bottom of the riser to destroy these compounds, and preferably a temperature over 800 deg C at the top of the riser.  I'm currently only hitting 700 deg C but I haven't sealed my combustion
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Ok so I am a bit confused now!
So you want to cook over the exposed top of the riser and that temperature at the top of the riser needs to be over 800c?
Or am I missing something?
Like I say on my fire a can get just over 500c on top of the plate but I have no idea what the temps is at the bottom of the riser or mid riser or even under the plate or at the top of the riser?
In any case I won’t be breathing in any fumes... will I ?
Sorry if I am being a bit thick but I still don’t quite get
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Hi Fox, I want all those things but I want much higher temperatures than that video shows because at 200-400, and 500-800 deg C you get de novo synthesis of dioxins and furans in the riser from the chlorine atoms in the wood. And since I'm standing at the top of the riser cooking, I'd rather not be exposed to endocrine disrupters!

Peter has temperature probes in his riser so he can measure the temperature accurately. I don't believe those IR guns can accurately read what's happening at the
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Hi Graham, getting 400c while gasifing small amounts of wood is pretty good in my books!

I don’t know what you want to see from your stove?
A top loading compact stove that has a big fire box, good cooking hight and economical wood consumption all appeal to me.
Like I have said Potty’s videos are well documented and there are lots of them but if you want gas analyser results with more technical  evidence, then stick to Peters designs.
There are other videos where his has his stove at max
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[quote=Graham Chiu]His temperatures aren't that high either; 400 deg C at the top of his riser when I believe Peter was getting 1300 deg C.[/quote]
Not entirely true: 900º C (1650º F) at the top of the riser and very, very close to 1200º C (2190º F) 25 mm in front of the wall opposite the top end of the port. Difference is still huge, though.
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[quote=Fox James]This 2015 vid talks a bit about secondary air and also shows it working but not until right at the end...
[/quote]

I started watching near the end as it's 30 mins long.  I didn't really see the secondary air - he needs a big arrow pointing to what he means!  His temperatures aren't that high either; 400 deg C at the top of his riser when I believe Peter was getting 1300 deg C.  And his explanations were also a bit inaccurate I believe on what happens in the riser.  But that
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Thomas, now you have your P plate fitted, you could easily play around with gasification just by fitting a lid.
In my case I just have a piece of glass that fits up to the plate.
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This 2015 vid talks a bit about secondary air and also shows it working but not until right at the end...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Un84EZ7XpFg&index=16&list=PLt8pPbBqBmRgCT8hPGMqnoDpBPVR9R6Vj
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, and have a black oven inside. I'm not enamoured with the way a batch box has to be fed, and I'm wondering why I can't seal the front leaving only primary air open, remove the roof, refill with wood
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Graham, you want a cooking rocket. Build one like mine.
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He has lots of videos including one with all the dimensions, the riser is only 29” from the base to the top so it would fit in a barrel just fine.
However he does use quite a high chimney but even then he says it will still work fine with a much shorted one.
Anyway that format suits me and it has been tried and tested for 5-6 years now!
My new fire will be based around that design and as I don’t weld, I won’t be useing much sheet metal, more ceramic board and bricks.
I have been useing my
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Fox, I watched that video but looks like a lot of metal work involved.  So, it seems he has a primary insulated combustion chamber which he uses to gassify the wood, and then he burns the gases in the riser using secondary air from somewhere.   My home's commercial wood burner is also a gassifier and that much wood would certainly not last all night let alone a hour!
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Graham, you just need a bigger fire box with a lid!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5afOmOaFyKM
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After spending a lot of my time on my hands and knees tending a batch box, there are definite advantages to having a top loading rocket stove!  But the constant tending to for a J tube is a pain
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As an additional data point, I fired up my electric oven today, and put in two pizza stones.  I could get the stone up to 200 deg C and the pizza, although it rose, was doughy in the middle, and the base was not browned after 15 minutes.  I had my pizza sandwiched between the two stones.  The cheese did brown though.  My electric oven maxes out at 250 deg C and I waited 25 minutes before putting the pizza on the stone.  So, in that respect the rocket stove is looking much better!
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I'm still just trying to figure out what's possible. I think I'll reduce the size of the oven again and keep it like that. I can roast duck on its side.

The issue facing me at present is that I'm using what is really the secondary combustion chamber of a DSR2 for cooking. So that causes smoke. But if I insulate the really short riser with ceramic fibre blanket will I then lose the benefit of mass, and gain very little?

I recall you mentioned something like using CFB means there's no
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Good effort Graham, I do find your vids a little stressful though, I end up wishing you had a nice rocket stove and a nice wood fired oven!
How much longer before you can make a more permanent version?
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Well, I'd never roasted any bird in my life before let alone Peking duck and in a rocket oven.  But here's the video warts and all.  I learned that

1. The oven is too small even though I enlarged the height by 50%
2. Two meat hooks can't substitute for a proper poultry hook
3. There's too much temperature differential between the top and bottom of the oven

So, I ended up taking the bird off the hooks and roasting it lying at various angles in a small flat roasting dish as I kept turning
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Just more data points.  I made a wooden door from hard wood ( sustainably harvested left overs from the deck construction ), and lined the hot face with a used aluminium tray.  That has seemed to stop the top part of the door from burning from the heat but it's early days. I found that soaking the door in water didn't stop it burning.

After 1 hour I'm hitting 220 degrees on the brick floor of the oven, and at 1.5 hours I'm reaching 290 deg C.  The burn chamber gets to about 800 deg C.
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" batch rocket.  After 3 kg of wood, and 50 minutes of burn, I was only getting 220 deg C on the roof of the oven, and 120 deg C on the floor.  Maybe I need to line the oven with some insulated steel?
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Sadly I don't have access to virtually free hardwood. I've seen this neat tool to rip pallets apart but until I get one of those I'll just keep using my battery powered hand saw.

Phil, I roasted some potatoes tonight just for you! I wasn't able to weigh the wood consumed but it was just under a shopping bag full of pallet wood. See the video for details.

[YouTube]https://youtu.be/rfVuwWsUclc[/YouTube]
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If I have to cut up a pallet, I use an electric jigsaw to break it down and a chopper to finish it off.
Luckily my own workshop produces quite a bit of hardwood off cuts and my local joinery shop sells bags of hardwood for £1.50 a bag.
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I was in town yesterday and grabbed a couple of HT treated pallets from Bunnings. I forgot how long it takes to pull these apart!  I burn them with the nails.  And even one pallet has a decent amount of fire wood but it all has to be cut to size.  And split finely otherwise it tends to smoke.  I guess that's because these pallets are often left out in the rain.
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I'd expect formaldehyde to be fully combusted in a rocket setting. Probably the most environmentally responsible thing to do with ply and MDF.
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Phil, no sorry I didn't weigh the wood but can do this next time. I'm really only using pallet Wood except for kindling that I bought. And I doubt I would have used more than half of a pallet.  The home stores, as you know, no longer sell firewood since it's the middle of our summer.  One has to go to a specialist retailer to find it.   So, I'll be scouring the city today for free pallets.  But I've noticed a trend. Many pallets are now made of plywood which I presume we can't burn because the
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Graham, just curious...do you know about how much wood you burned for the video where you baked the chicken, the potatoes, pizza, and boiled your kettle? That would be a nice data point.
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I decided to remove the steel from the firebox roof and replace with standard firebrick. As expected it took several hours to get the brick up to 230 deg - 300 deg C for cooking pizza.  But then it takes 15 minutes to cook as opposed to when I had the metal over the firebox and pizza stone on top.  Then it took 5 minutes.    But now the floor of the brick oven remains at 220 deg C for the next couple of hours even though no more fuel has been added.  It's the heat from the residual coals which
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=237hMBBPI_8

I bought a couple of balls of pizza dough from an Italian restaurant and split them into 4 balls to make pizza.  Although I had a lot of difficulty getting that dough into a round shape it still worked well enough.  The sides puffed up nicely.

But the "pizzza stone" cracked again so it's now in 3 pie-ces.  I guess I really need cordierite.  The cast iron griddle being used for the roof of the firebox is buckling under the heat
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It's interesting that cooking in or over the riser seems to be much faster than over a hot gas grill. The temperatures must be much hotter
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Duck legs un the rocket oven. 4 minutes each sise, approximately.
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It’s all good fun ah...
I cook tandoori style down my riser (cement riser) it is probably the most appreciated dish I do.
I use marinated chicken breast, works best when the fire is gasifieing and the riser top sides are around 400c.
I made a little grid to hang 4 skewers on and drop them down the riser, takes about 3 minutes to colour up and cook.
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Today I fired her up using Peter's start up method ( kindling near the Venturi, then more wood, and then fully load when everything is burning well ) and I think with the addition of some hard wood the fire was much better.
I had flames shooting up the riser across the top of the oven for a lot of the pizza cooking time and it wasn't hard to brown the edges.  I did burn the bases a few times but I was trying to juggle too many things at once as well as be the cook.  I'm very encouraged by
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That's the plan.  Get the best working model with leaks, and then seal her up.
I have the fire clay, the sand, the ceramic fiber board, ceramic fiber blanket, the glass fire door, and the matrikote just arrived .. I just need to get access to the site once the builders leave.
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[quote=Satamax Antone]Graham.  Don't yiu think it's about time to build something  mortared and a bit more on the normal troden path? [/quote]

If you aren't using mortar and your plaything is almost working, it will haul ass with mortar.
Have you ever seen how much of a negative effect a vacuum leak has on a gasoline engine?

The clay slip & sand come off neatly with a short bristled wire brush if you need to rearrange.
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Max, I have a house for the daughter being built at the rear of my section.  When it's finished we will build something that is permanent.
I even have Matt Walker's stove plans as a fall back.
In the meantime I get to play crazy fire scientist and cook!


https://i.imgur.com/0MSY6d1.jpg

I envision the final stove will go at the base of the hugelkultur to the right .. so approximately in the middle of the image where they're digging up some clay to move to under the deck.
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Graham.  Don't yiu think it's about time to build something  mortared and a bit more on the normal troden path?

A batch box with the cooking plate above the firebox, and  an oven on top
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Yes, a rocket stove has not yet been shown to be able to heat up a fire brick to 500 deg C which is why I switched to using a plate of cast iron with a terracotta tile instead.
The final problem I'm having is that the top edges are not browning but the bottom is.  This shows that there is sufficient heat to toast the bread but the edges are not getting close to that heat source.
When I open up the oven door the draft is broken and the fire shoots up to the top.  I want to draw the fire closer
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Good on you for preserving but if you think about the size of fire needed to heat a full on pizza oven and the amount of BTUs required to saturate 250kg of solid mass to 500c, i think your little 4” rocket is doing ok!
Perhaps if you built a 6” air tight model it would be a lot closer to your goal.
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The oven top is reading 300 deg on the brick but I guess it's possible the air is hotter.  I've seen people lift their pizzas using the peel to the roof of the oven but I didn't realize that it was to burn the cheese!

I've got a stainless steel rack with 3 legs that I am going to use to raise it up a bit.  At present the pizza base is cooking in about 4 minutes.
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Good effort!
Perhaps you could pre heat a pizza stone and surport it in the chamber and slide in the pizza between the base and the stone.
Even with a full on pizza over you need to raise the cooked pizza base to just under the dome top to get the real burnt melted cheese effect.

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As I comment, you'd think this would work!

https://youtu.be/MddpEJHDOfM
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I made my own dough this morning following  perfect pizza dough recipe

and then used the residual heat from the rocket stove in the secondary burn chamber.

https://i.imgur.com/lifn43M.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/7A0jki1.jpg

I'm burning or toasting the bottom before I can get the sides to crisp up still so I had to pull these pizzas out at 5 minutes of cooking time.

I just used a
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Never been to Tekapo but I'll watch out for the pizza oven if I ever do

My pizza stone is primarily being heated from below as it's sitting on the firebox top. I didn't think it would survive without intervening steel to disperse the heat more evenly. I don't know what the differences are in thermal lag between these substances so loss of heat is a concern. The two in combination are not as thick as a brick but hopefully the fire below will keep up with the heat loss.

I've not yet seen
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It is recommended to get the pizza oven brick surface to around 500c but that is a guide to show you have saturated the brick mass to around 350-400c.
So the brick is not 500 all the way through, it has been heated to around 350c on the cold side, about 400 in the middle and 500 on the hot face.
At that stage you can push the fire away from the cooking spot and allow the brick temperature to equalise and stabilise to around 400c
However the dome itself will be saturated right through with
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I think I've seen those diagrams before.  The obstacle that was facing all rocket stove based pizza ovens was reaching a floor temperature of 500 deg C.  Most I've seen are only hitting about half that.
So, now I've hit 380 deg C for the floor, I just now need to get the top hot enough, which I think means lowering the height of the oven.  380 deg is not 500 but it's getting very usable.

Now I didn't know that store pizzas are only supposed to be cooked at 250 deg C   But my pizza base
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I think I may of explained this before but the principle of a wood burning pizza oven is very basic
The oven needs to retain heat to create optimum cooking temperatures long after the fire has gone out. A well designed oven will retain its heat evenly between the temperatures of  300-400 C for long periods.
To heat the oven quickly you need a good air flow in and out of the oven and use really good dry hardwood.
The larger the oven the longer it will take to heat and stop smoking, lots of
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Well, I cobbled something together along these lines.  And I hit 380 deg C on the pizza stone!
But the top of the oven, since I was using a metal plate, wasn't hot enough and I didn't get any browning of the pizza bread on the edges.
But the bottom crust burned in patches.  When I took it out, I managed to drop the thing topping sides down on the ground
Oh well, we still ate the experiment.
So, it seems I need to lower the height of the oven and use bricks instead of cast iron.
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From posts here and elsewhere it's clear that the only way you get stone or brick hot enough to cook pizza rapidly is to have the fire in camera you're going to cook the pizza. Sure you can vent heat in or around a metal container but those contraptions only reach 250 deg C so your pizza isn't going to cook in 30 seconds.

But the issue with a traditional pizza oven is that you have a dirty burn which you need to keep going for over an hour to get the mass to heat up sufficiently.

I wonder
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https://i.imgur.com/58SMYvD.jpg

Not quite as good as my first try as I didn't quite have enough fuel to get the oven hot enough.
I had to use the grill to get the skin to crackle, and you can see from the cuts that the skin could use a bit longer cooking.
Still I guess it means it's not a fluke, and it's semi-reproduceable - smoked as well using Manuka firewood.
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Having a black oven is a god send when you've left your firewood out in the rain

I'm doing another roast pork belly today and left my kiln dried firewood outside overnight, and it's pouring down right now.
I can't leave the meat till tomorrow as the recipe says don't marinate for more than 24 hours.  Yes, I could just stick it in the electric oven but that's defeatism.
So, the wet firewood goes into the black oven until I'm ready to burn it.  And any soot that gets deposited on the
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More successes today. Roasted belly pork with totally crisp skin, and juicy meat. I covered the pizza stone with tin foil to protect it from the oils being released from the pork. And then I cooked 4 pizzas to perfection.

Several times my oven started to smoke when I overloaded the burn chamber, so I just lifted the brick capping the riser so it vented straight up and not into the oven. And when I managed to stop the smoke, I then covered it again.

Who needs an electric oven?
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So, a question for the experts.  Is it better for a black oven to be closed ended, or, to have the gases flow over the food instead of under?
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Rather than resizing the pizza "stone" which is 30 x 30 cm, I think I'm going to try an aluminium sheet under it to try and spread the heat more evenly to prevent cracking.
And I'm going to try enlarging the oven so I can get a whole ( 30 cm ) pizza in there rather than only cooking 1/4s at a time.

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cook top type stove, since  the after burner (heat riser) needs to maintain a very high temperature, but the top starts to dissipate heat immediately.  The DSR2 on the other hand exits the batch box
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.

note the new visions fry pan  “door” to the batch box, The lid I was using had broken into two pieces possibly from rough handling, possibly the lids are not as thermally  robust as the pans
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I put my copper pipe on the floor of my batch box and it was fine.
Then I elevated the end that was in the mouth of the Venturi - rested it on a bit of fire brick.
At the end of the build the pipe
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[quote=Graham Chiu]Is 40 minutes cooking time long enough?  That's about what you get with a batch box.[/quote]

One of the ideas I have of doing this is heating  a chunk of steel till
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[quote=Graham Chiu]Is 40 minutes cooking time long enough?  That's about what you get with a batch box.[/quote]


I think so if....    

You combine the batch box with a cob oven.      If one
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Is 40 minutes cooking time long enough?  That's about what you get with a batch box.
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I'm using a batch box, and the dimensions from Peter's spreadsheet.  As far as I know, if you shorten the riser, you need a longer chimney to compensate.
If you just want to cook over a short riser
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I dry stacked a 5" batch box with fire brick and lined the floor and roof as well as manifold with ceramic fiber blanket.  I also built the riser using CFB to a height of 920 mm.  It's very clean
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briefly looked at propane wok stoves which say that they provide 10,000 to 100,000 BTUs so I suspect a non batch style rocket stove is going to have trouble creating wok hei.

Edit: I just found
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a standard wood stove top with the pot lid removed. Huge firebox,and seemingly no worries about grease fire...  
You could cook over a riser like that . Batch box or J tube ' Just need to be up at the riser
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bricks, and with L, J, mag and batch rocket stoves I got the most rising flame out of the latter.  I might have been overfueling it, but I got a fountain of fire coming up the riser which is what you
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That's why the latest iteration of the batch box has the secondary air routed in a steel tube in the floor of the firebox; it gives preheating without disturbing the coals. Also, in this location
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by the coals that fall through the grate.  But in the batch box, a grate under the wood causes smoke.  I guess it's because in some situations the incoming air cools the fuel so lowering the combustion
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be closer to 400 deg C.

And this is still a dry stack fire brick oven using a 5 inch batch box with a very short riser, like a double shoe box 2.

I'm wondering if I could start a charcoal fire
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metal drum designs ( and I presume the kickstarter).

I'm still only hitting 250 deg C in my dry stacked 4" batch box oven which is perfectly adequate for pizza I think as long as you're prepared
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I'm quite pleased with my rocket stove oven.  And now I'm thinking of scaling it up so that I can cook multiple pizzas at the same time like a true pizza oven.
Maybe I'd have to go to a 6" batch
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and higher. Using the batch stove as the design basis.

Because I have two 90 degree angles for the heat to hit the pizza there's no ash on the food.

If I were renting I'd use clay sand mortar
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 a low mass heatriser?
However I am steering towards a batch box design in which case I  don’t know how I would build one as I, like yourself, have not quite got my head around all the options
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Wow Fox James you the one who built that hot plate, I've seen your post a while ago, great job mate!!  

If batch ovens create more ash like you say, it's no good. It's nice to be able to use
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I am not the right person to try and explain but a batch rocket has a much larger fire box and burns a lot more wood in the same time as a J tube rocket would.
There is a lot more emphasis
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Yeah I've been on that donkey 32 forum. Plenty of batch ovens and info there, but no specific explanation.

All I gather is, that there is a fire box between the riser and the batch.. I'm sure
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I have never built a batch rocket but I do understand how they work, my own rocket stove was a learning curve to build and I possibly built it before I had done enough revision.
I assume this forum
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how does the batch oven works, I can google lot's of photos and videos but no instructions on how to build one up.
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You could look at batch rocket stoves, they Can be made to work with a short heat riser.
I don’t see how you can make a really good pizza oven without a brick cooking base, it is all about getting
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I have plotted similar schemes for the same reasons.
Combining the clean burn of the rocket stove with the infrastructure of the outdoor wood burning  boiler is the goal.
The BTUs that a batch
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[quote=thomas rubino]Guys I'm sure it can be done but...  in that scenario you would want to build a batch box rmh over a J tube. AND it will be badly inefficient.
A rmh mass should be in the room[/quote]
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Guys I'm sure it can be done but...  in that scenario you would want to build a batch box rmh over a J tube. AND it will be badly inefficient.
A rmh mass should be in the room with you to enjoy
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day sun is on the roof but I don't plan on cooking there.

Smoke can be an issue if the fire dies down and you put more wood in the batch box.  That's quickly fixed by using a fan to get the fire up
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For the temperatures you are looking at, a solar oven make work for you as well.
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When I think of an oven I think 350F (250f - 450) for 1hr (0.5hr to 3hrs).
I might put a pot of boiling water for moisture/humidity and to keep the temp stable.
I can do the same with a lid/foil paper.

Temporal Control (feeding pattern- frequent breaks possible by small diameter)
Conductivity Control. (Thermal Mass - makes it slow for temp to go up/down)
Moisture Control (seems like a type of thermal mass, but also affects "crusting/searing/flavor" and internal food moisture
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A lot of the stuff I have cooked in an oven is of the "slow roast" variety.  The typical example is where you put a whole chicken or other sizable hunk of meat in a covered roasting pan, with mushrooms, vegetables and maybe a cup or two of water, then roast it at 250 or 275 for 3 or 4 hours.  This is usually started just before going out for the afternoon sit in a blind or treestand.  

Most of the cooking I have done on my rocket stove is grilling meats, the way one would in a Weber grill,
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Jason, what sort of food are you cooking?  And what temperatures do you want to reach?

Earth/brick based ovens are used somewhat differently from your electric oven.  Once you reach the hottest temperatures you can cook pizza.  As it cools down, you can roast, and then when it cools down further you can bake.  So, you normally time your cooking with the natural firing and cooling temperatures of the mass of the oven.

If you want precise temperature control then that's going to be harder
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Thanks for all of the replies.  I'll read through them and watch the videos to see what steps are needed to use the heat from a rocket stove to provide the heat needed for oven style cooking.
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in my oven which meant maintaining a temperature of 230 deg C for 1.5 hours.

https://permies.com/t/93105/Cooking-inch-batch-rocket-stove

Though this is now a 5 inch batch box.
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Yup! Earlier this year Paul came out with a DVD that walks you through the steps to build your own rocket oven - this rocket oven is a white oven. I highly recommend checking it out if you want to learn how to make one.

The DVD literally goes through each step and if you are already familiar with a j-tube you should have no issues building one. There is no welding needed for this build unless you want to use it when building your j-tube.

As a
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These are not batch box or J tubes, just simple L rockets, but they seem to get the job done:
Jon and Flip
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I think you might be looking for a rocket oven.
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Admittedly, my understanding of the various "rocket" technologies is lacking, but it seems to me that each solution (rocket stove and rocket mass heater) is designed for a very specific application, and neither is ideal for use as an oven.

I have build several rocket stoves, of varying effectiveness.  (To my way of thinking) The design and purpose of a rocket stove is to produce a substantial amount of heat in a very small area, specifically for cooking food by frying or boiling.  The
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[quote=Graham Chiu]It's hard to beat the entertainment value of watching a fountain of fire hitting a cooking plate in the double shoe batch box rocket stove![/quote]
Ha Ha well maybe I will find
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It's hard to beat the entertainment value of watching a fountain of fire hitting a cooking plate in the double shoe batch box rocket stove!
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For cooking, i like the speed of a small 6 J in the summer

And absolutely love my workshop batch. With the added oven and range top.
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I'm not sure that's the case. What the batch box does is deliver heat for a defined period if you don't keep feeding the fire.  So you control the heat by the amount of fuel. The duration of the burn
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Wow 900c is amazing!
Although I am interested in the batch box design, I don’t see it has much use for my purposes.
They have been designed to heat mass very quickly with short intense burns, I
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Peter says he sees 900 deg C at the top of his batch box riser - see https://permies.com/t/93424/Needing-Feedback-design-sidewind-batchbox#798102
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going much higher than 500c  on the barrel top.
I would think that a batch box with its much bigger load of wood should go up higher inside the riser but they normally have a large gap above the riser
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There is a way, i think, which is proven.

An horizontal batch, with a side window, and a top load.

http://donkey32.proboards.com/post/16159/thread  http://www.ecologieforum.eu/viewtopic.php?f
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don’t know if the retained heat is a good or bad thing but it is must be a factor.

I like your idea of a vertical batch rocket feed, this is most definitely a direction I will be taking, I have never
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If you notice, it's all metal rockets. Yellow, or red flames.  Traces of soot in the risers etc.

Really, you don't need more than a batch or J tube for anything. It's a matter of KISS. All
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://permies.com/forums/imageCache/image/3b8122d86c579158c030e742cade94e8/SANY0980.jpg

For a higher firebox, i'm trying to develop a vertical batch. http://donkey32.proboards.com/thread/1803/peter
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riser gets red not (2hours) it requires very little fuel to maintain the heat and offers very easy total combustion with the aid of secondary air?
I have been studying batch rockets but I don’t think
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1400, plenty good enough, as long as you don't go batch.
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Most cooking is incidental to the heating of a house in which batch boxes excel. For a mass oven like a pizza oven you can also use a batch box. For a massless oven like the Kickstarter pizza oven
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[quote=Graham Chiu]Hi Jason

Batch box rocket stoves are loaded with wood much bigger than matchsticks! [/quote]

Are folks using batch boxes for rocket stoves, meaning those used
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Hi Jason

Batch box rocket stoves are loaded with wood much bigger than matchsticks!
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I tried lighting my batch box with a method I saw on this board .. stack dry wood inside, pack with wood shavings at the front, and then light the wood shavings.  Excellent result.
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I know what you are saying, most batch rockets seem to use a cast top that is not 3” thick though.
I do agree that it would take a long time to heat up a full size brick even covered in insulation!
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You are baseing your observations on your own design, perhaps a sealed batch rocket with a door and cement between the bricks and an insulated heat riser would heat up more?
Maybe it would be worth
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I just stumbled upon this link from JUCA stoves http://mb-soft.com/juca/print/315.html

Can someone confirm how valid this analysis is, and its application to batch boxes which operate in an air
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on line.
   

Thanks for the recommendation - I'm wondering - does the Wisner book include information on Peter's batch boxes and its evolution?  

thanks!
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