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bearing. To insulate earth-filled bags it is best to add a separate layer on the outside, which could be commercial foam, papercrete, light straw/clay or even strawbales or more bags filled with insulation.
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the ground for these kinds of structures? Earth mixed with cement? Proportion of clay? Papercrete? I'm needing a bit of forward movement on this. Can I use the same plaster for both projects?
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&search_keywords=papercrete&match_type=all&search_in=ALL&forum=79&groupByTopic=true&sort_by=time&sort_dir=DESC&search_date=ALL&member_number=&member_first_name=&member_last_name=&member_match_type=memberPosted
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I remember seeing a section on this forum where papercrete - especially a variation using clay - fit in, but can't find it.  Can someone point me in the right direction please?  I am especially
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Just a quick update to this thread.  We are currently working on a two-room round house that has a small dome (mechanical room) attached.  We did find a good clay/sand mixture that we purchase by the truck load.  We're hoping to get the great room and bedroom completed enough to move into by late October and then next Spring we'll be adding on a master bedroom.
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[quote=Elisa Breland]

I really wish we could use our "dirt" locally we call it "moon dust" it's actually very fine granite dust. [/quote]
You also mentioned finding a replacement for Portland cement..
So just a little shout out for geopolymer: I have played with geopolymers a few different ways, and I was impressed with it. you may find a desirable use for it, using your granite sand and limestone aggregates-- if you can come up with cheap waste pozzolan. Something to consider while you
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Christopher,

Thanks for your thoughtful replies. I am planning a meeting with the manager of the local limestone quarry here. Scoria is just not available within any driving distance that we can afford or, afford to have delivered. We can purchase small amounts at the building store an hour away but that won't be economical for building the entire dome complex. We are using Owen Geiger's Eco-Dome II plans. I do already have near 1,000 poly bags so if I decide to go that route we have
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(no belly dump and nothing smaller than 18 wheels--unless you're going small dome), balance that cost by the hidden material costs of papercrete, the vast time saved in efficiency by using dry
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Here's my take on this Elisa,
A papercrete dome is a recipe for mold in all but the driest of deserts. A lime ingredient in papercrete doesn't waterproof, though at high enough ratios it raises pH
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haven't made a decision yet about water-proofing. I am working on exploring the idea that adding lime instead of/or in addition to Portland Cement in the Papercrete may help to make it water
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As long as the papercrete has enough strength to support the loads, and durability against decomposition or softening in damp, it should have enough mass surrounding you to be useful. I expect its
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Hello, I have no clay available where I live and am planning a hyperadobe, or earthbag dome home. So, in exploring other options I came up with the idea of using papercrete in the earthbags
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. I just get nervous from seeing and hearing about failed bale domes and papercrete domes and leaking geodesics and saturated bale walls. Organic bag fill in domes is unsettling to me but I live next
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fill more mold resistant. is a vermiculite-crete without cellulose fill to expensive? I like lightweight cretes, scoriacrete And pumicecrete and epscrete and papercrete have all found appropriate uses
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more mold resistant. is a vermiculite-crete without cellulose fill to expensive? I like lightweight cretes, scoriacrete And pumicecrete and epscrete and papercrete have all found appropriate uses in my
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. is a vermiculite-crete without cellulose fill to expensive? I like lightweight cretes, scoriacrete And pumicecrete and epscrete and papercrete have all found appropriate uses in my work but I have never
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[quote=Dale Hodgins]I would favor straw bale, cordwood, and standard stick frame from recycled materials, over any bag system.

Check out papercrete. Seems like you may be reinventing[/quote]
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I would favor straw bale, cordwood, and standard stick frame from recycled materials, over any bag system.

Check out papercrete. Seems like you may be reinventing that.
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(note: there are links to blue underline text and Kanji)

Hi Jeremy, et al,

"Vernacular" can address both a specific region, historical time period, and/or biome type. It is neither fixed towards a single cultural type, yet more specific to what works "historical" in a region and/or biome. One could just follow a "native" tradition and adapt that to their needs or look to other cultures and forms from similar regions and/or time periods. New England has
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[quote=Dillon Nichols]Jeremy, I would have said that the foundation, drainage, load-bearing frame, rafters and roof are probably the most demanding aspect of a timber frame build. [/quote]

Yes. Of course you're right. I've been through several permutations of the build in my mind and must have blended a couple.
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As Jeremy points out, the vernacular architecture of an area was shaped by the lifestyle, living standards, and available resources/skills. There is absolutely a lot to be learned, but in many cases some or all of these things have drastically changed, and improvements can be made. I think a west-coast cedar longhouse is an excellent structure, but if I was building one, I suspect I would be planning on substantially updated foundations along with insulation, and passive/active HVAC options.
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Hi Jay,

Thanks for weighing in. I've read your responses to other similar posts on this forum and have seen this suggestion from you a few times. I might be misunderstanding, but as I recall from my high school history class, the "historical vernacular" of the native peoples of this region were green poles lashed together with layers of animal skins draped over them and open fire pits under a central skylight. As they were primarily nomadic people, this made sense for them, but doesn't
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Hi Jeremy, et al,

I have been following along, and thought perhaps now would be a good time to through in my "2 cents," for what it's worth.

[quote]Am I just running into the unsolvable problem, or am I letting my personal preferences override my common sense and refusing to do what just works?[/quote]

No...these are not "unsolvable problems." I do not even see any real challenges per se...

Yes...like many...our "mindset" (psychology) gets in the way of our "goal set," often
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I have considered timber framing. In fact, that's one option I'm thinking of for a self-supporting roof, with posts either inside or outside the earth bag wall. I think a lot of the strength of the earth bags would be lost by interrupting it with posts, so I want to keep that EB wall continuous and just work around the post and beam construction to support the roof.

I think the soil is pretty heavy in clay. I haven't tested it fully yet because I don't yet own it. I'm in the process of
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Dale: Interesting, wouldn't have occurred to me that this would be too northerly for earthbag construction. Having followed the http://canadiandirtbags.com/ blog, they seemed satisfied with a singlewalled! earthbag setup in Alberta. Is this purely an insulation thing, or are you thinking about some other shortfall?


Jeremy:

Sites that might help you find a better source of perlite/vermiculite:
http://www.vermiculite.com/
https://perlite.org/

I agree that bags with different
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Check out the work of Rob Roy. He uses cord wood.

You are hundreds of miles north of where I would ever consider using earth bags. Wood chip clay might work.
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I've looked into perlite and vermiculite, but I might not be looking in the right place. All I've seen is bags at gardening centers, etc. for about $.75/cubic foot. That would obviously get pretty expensive to fill a wall with. I do have plenty of wood, though. The entire lot is wooded, and we'll have to clear a bunch just to have a place to build, so maybe with a decent wood chipper, I could use that mixed with clay, which I also have plenty of. Or, there's a sawmill down the road where
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But the stage in strawbale where the bugs come out of the walls looks so fun!


So, no scoria, no rice hulls, no pumice. What else can you put in an bag to insulate?

Have you looked for perlite or vemiculite already, as well?

Beyond those, my first thought was wood. Perhaps lightclay, or in a pinch maybe sawdust mixed with lime? Looks like this is on Owen Geiger's mind too: http://www.naturalbuildingblog.com/woodchiplight-clay-earthbags/

Some more mentions of these options here:
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So I've read a lot on this forum and abroad about the dangers of papercrete in regards to moisture retention, but I'm unclear on a couple of points and was hoping some of you might help shed some
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Tom: I've sprayed earthen plaster, Papercrete, epscrete, lime, pumice/Portland and mixtures of these binders/aggregates. Just plaster prep as needed for the pitch and stickiness of the plaster
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for Papercrete--I use one eb stuffed full.per mix.
Watch your correction for movement. Maybe spike that spot down, likely a fellow Scoria traveler. I like Scoria bags, but their shifty-ness requires
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of paint and water onto the oldest bags and will tarp it all in a couple of weeks until spring. I would like to do a papercrete exterior for maximum insulative value a la Kelly and Zana Hart's house
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You may be able to use bags of cinders.

cheap , light, and easy to manipulate.

a few websites out there talk about it
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While PC is fun, lightweight, fire-retardant (it dissolves rather than inflames), it is also very absorbant, loves to drink up the moisture. Unless the permies/builders have come up with an affordable, 100% guaranteed against absorbancy mixture, I would not use it for your support walls, especially not underground.
But, it does make for a nice insulating plaster to finish out your home.

I hope someone with deeper research with newest technology (resins, etc) will correct me and give
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Wonder if anyone has any experience with or thoughts on using a partial or full paracrete or papercrete variation in the bags?
I am planning to build a small, round emergency shelter underground. I
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the total r-value is poor...at least on paper. Kelly's walls, however, are covered in papercrete (rather than the standard earthen plaster) which brings the total wall r-value up to around r-25
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