Michael James wrote:How much of a dent could I expect to put into a $2000 heat bill for a 4,000 sq/ft house with an 8' rmh? In other word's how close could I come to heating this space with just an 8' rmh if i kept it fueled? would a larger size be optimal? I'm leaning towards buying the 8' plans I am just hesitant because I'm not sure if it is adequate and if I should to be looking for different plans.
note: I could just scale it up but I hate messing with sizes since optimization is very touchy with things of this nature.
paul wheaton wrote:I know that just the fire sciences thing that happens on friday night would fill a full DVD.
Then all the rest of it would fill a dozen more DVDs.
Mass produced DVDs sell for $20 a pop. And limited production DVDs sell for $30 a pop. How many of you are willing to shell out $400 for the full DVD set of this workshop, when you can attend the real thing for much less and be able to actually ask questions?
I don’t like what I am seeing here.... I thought "this site" was to share information... not sell it?
I have the money, time & want to go to one of these seminars... But something feels amiss...
"share the love not the information" seems really wrong to me...
I am very disappointed in your direction you have chosen here....
Matt Martin wrote:I am new the this website but find a lot of these threads very interesting. I am about to embark on the trial and error method of converting a grain silo into a house. I saw this thread and got very interested when I saw the drawings of window cutouts. Will the 2" angle iron be able to support and keep the silo structurally sound? Would you do a similar cutout for the doors?
Yes I am currently working on the double door entry into the basemen level, the 2" seems to be supporting just fine, remember my bin is 36" in dia & 9 rings high. I wouldnt get to carried away on openings. The bigger the bin the heavier the support you should use. I am also tying in the structure with foam between the studded walls. This will greatly strenghthen it too.
I did not have good luck with the stove glass! Hold off on that until I get more testing? The piece I tested this weekend lasted 5 min. Then shattered? Might have been just tempered glass instead of high heat glass? I have a different piece to try a gain with in a couple of days!
Ernie Wisner wrote:Ahh i see; Dan where are you getting the glass? If its good rates i would like to get some myself. that vid is great by the way, will you do a full cycle (big wood ) for us? if you have enough glass that is
I recycled a real good piece of glass today out of an old stove. Should work a lot better than my homemade tempered glass!
The glass cut to size is 2 ft minimum 90$ so I could get 5 pieces cut, after replies from other forum post I think they should be smaller slightly smaller than the bricks so they can be framed to have room for expansion.
I am going to reset-up this weekend on leveler ground LOL, I will do some big wood test too, now that some of my slab wood has dried up.
I am not the ex-spert here but 7 x 7 I beleive would work on a smaller sized rocket! On the few I have played with my burn tunnel works best just under a 2/3rds ration. Meaning I would "try" my burn tunnel around 3.5" high around 4" wide? with that sized flue. it's a little smaller than standards that I have seen. you will have to insilate around the out side if you use ceramic in my under standing. Make it with what you got I always say!
I really don’t want a water tank? I have several reasons., one of my boilers I made had the water heats separate in as much as 100 degrees in 18" when uncirculated. A much larger very short long and wide tank would be needed, Steam would need to be vented outside, water levels monitored & I am going to pressurize my boiler with the goal of using as little antifreeze/water as possible. I will only be bringing mass up to heat once maybe twice a day. Unoxidized stagnant water gets nasty pretty quick. The water would need to be cured & piped every were. I am thinking mass is much better for me?
Ok here the dillieo… Looking for aditional Ideas and or advice :
I am in the middle (ok 1/3) of my round house build.
I really want a rocket stove mass heater in it but no way of getting it approved!
So
I am going to make the most efficient rocket stove boiler the world has ever seen! well maybe just my county anyways? Ha!
It will be self circulating, tankless/thermo mass, multi fueled & or chip feed & it can be manual fed normally when powers not available!
I have my detailed plans for boiler all figured out! I’ll have time next winter to build it,
I am getting close to putting in the hydronic heated basement floor, Soon! Spring is near!
I want to install a “massive” boiler heated Mass put in the center of my 36’ round floor! My ideas so far;
Dig say a 5’ deep and 10 x 10 ft hole, Would that be big enough? or even bigger maybe? 3 storey, 3k sq ft
Insulate with ?? heavy straw cob or Styrofoam or ? Not sure what could handle that much weight? Any suggestions?
Then maybe the bottom (if needed) and all sides with an additional insulation of 4” perlite mix that I’v read you guys talk about! Would that be good enough for a slow drain off a mass of that size, ideally @ 200 degrees?
My biggest question is what would be the best & cheapest materials to “pack” in the mass around the Pex tubing? I’m thinking crushed concrete (not next to pex), river rocks and & sand maybe? I need typical materials form a gravel pit! My land is mostly sand…
Ok here the dillieo… Looking for aditional Ideas and or advice :
I am in the middle (ok 1/3) of my round house build.
I really want a rocket stove mass heater in it but no way of getting it approved!
So
I am going to make the most efficient rocket stove boiler the world has ever seen! well maybe just my county anyways? Ha!
It will be self circulating, tankless/thermo mass, multi fueled & or chip feed & it can be manual fed normally when powers not available!
I have my detailed plans for boiler all figured out! I’ll have time next winter to build it,
I am getting close to putting in the hydronic heated basement floor, Soon! Spring is near!
I want to install a “massive” boiler heated Mass put in the center of my 36’ round floor! My ideas so far;
Dig say a 5’ deep and 10 x 10 ft hole, Would that be big enough? or even bigger maybe? 3 storey, 3k sq ft
Insulate with ?? heavy straw cob or Styrofoam or ? Not sure what could handle that much weight? Any suggestions?
Then maybe the bottom (if needed) and all sides with an additional insulation of 4” perlite mix that I’v read you guys talk about! Would that be good enough for a slow drain off a mass of that size, ideally @ 200 degrees?
My biggest question is what would be the best & cheapest materials to “pack” in the mass around the Pex tubing? I’m thinking crushed concrete (not next to pex), river rocks and & sand maybe? I need typical materials form a gravel pit! My land is mostly sand…
I just recently bought some cheap Firebrick. I could easily tell because of the weight of them. I think it was half that of a normal brick. The lighter the brick the higher the heat they can handle but more fradgle they become.
Murf
night burn,
just started it! You need "high Heat Resistant" glass. Temper will not do! I had my glass cut to size of fire brick! 9" x 4.5" x 3/16" did not last long, I temper it my self.. well kindof.. It was just so I could see if it worked! I am ordering High Heat ceramic glass. there is a 90$ min. charge!
[quote=Monte Hines
Dan, I like your side window...[/b]
Hey Monte, I had seen that 2nd video on tube, but i wasn't 100% sure of what I waz lookin at!
The 1st video explained it all! Sweet job! That oven is awsume!
I think you can put at much viewing area of "the burn" as you want. "tempered glass" is not rated high enough! you need "high heat" resistance glass, so I have some ceramic glass on order 9" x 4-1/2" 3/16 for 90$ minimum WOW! It seems to me that the venturey is not effected at all. It still gives plenty of heat to thoroughly burn all gases'.
I made a rocket with some fire bricks i have, just to playing around. I have put a tempered piece of glass in the side of the burn tunnel. In place of one of the bricks! Man it looks & works awsume! And I did not notice a difference in the performance, I was worried that some of the heat would be radiant and it would smoke more. It did not seem to effect the performance at all!
I will try to post a video tonight! Have had probs posting vids from my phone...
I wonder? is'nt a keg (beer) made out of aluminum? Would it be affected by the exhaust gasses? Might be an issue?
That would work better, than steel & way cheaper than copper or silver?
You Alzo would have to use a heat sink on top of it if it gets to 1000 degrees.
Sounds super efficient if it pass' the exhuast gas test!
If you have 12v water heating elemits in your water tank alread?
I would make a windmill, if you know how to its the cheapest answer for you, I bet!
simply find a bad 12v car battery. (voltage regualtor) wire it in line between the windmill to the water heater.
Make sure you wire through the over temp relay switch that you should aready have, it turns off?opens contacts to keep you from over heating.
You simple reset after using your hot water.
John Abacene wrote:What? - Nothing? - no comments, replies, etc.?
It looks like nobody has even viewed this....
C'mon... there has got to be some ideas or something out there......
Thank you in advance.
Ok Here my spiel, Human Power
Take 4 wheels off a old lawn mower, You will need a 5th wheel eventually
Make a tilt frame, or mount wheels on a 2 wheel dolly (set-up dolly on a 45 degree angle) 5th wheel will need to be installed on the bottom
weld mixing paddles on the inside of a 55 gl drum (or smaller if you perfer) remember 145lbs per square foot for footing cement.
Take the rubber tire off the rear tire of a 10 speed bike. Reinstall rim on bike. Preinstall belt (see notes below)
Make a bike stand that hold the rear rim of the ground
Get a large belt, like the steamers use, the old leather ones would work and figure 8 belt around rim and the barrel.
I actually made a barrel set-up like this, minus the bike. Used a gas engine to drive one of the tire to spin the drum.
We didn’t use it much because it spun too fast, kept flinging cement to the outside of the drum and not mixing.
I though then a manual slower speed would have worked better! but it was a fun easy project.
What is being done to get this heater being expectable UL ratting. I just spoke with a ex-spert today. At a fire brick & call fire clay distrubuture here in west Michigan. He said you would have pay a grand & take your stove to Ohio(I think, will check notes) to get rated. Then you would have build ita exactly to those specifications... is anyone working on this. Can I help them on this in anyway?
Murf.
Yes spot welds. Actually you'd be surprised what we are going to weld with a "pontiac fiero" (laugh out loud.) My uncle has converted the car to electric! 12 6volt batteries. Way more power Needed to DC stick weld with.... we are working on that set-up now!
Yes for sure you should not breathe the galvanizing coding. And primer all welds on both sides of the metal!
Kari Gunnlaugsson wrote:
You are lucky to have access to all the metalworking tools...i think i would find weather tight and structurally sound window and door detailing difficult with the radius to deal with.
Not realy dificult, i'll show play by play when I get to that piont!
I have already found 1/2 my windows on Graigslist. A guy had intallers in while he was not home. Came home and found out he had all the wrong windows installed, they came back and reinstalled the correct ones, they could not sell the New Installed windows as New Product, they sold all of these New preinstalled windows to me for $ 100.00 smacks..
Kari Gunnlaugsson wrote:
If the bottom ring is locked solidly into place are you able to have openings that span the height of an entire ring, or is it better to center them so you only remove portions of two consecutive rings??...that's awkward, i don't know how else to say it...You must not have five foot doorways...
I will take a pic for you tonight if i get home before dark? The bin has metal brackets that lag to the cement. On the basement level, remember its a 4 foot poured wall. the opening are already poured in the exposed side of the basement. I will weld the opening frame to the bin and lag the vertical pieces to the top of the cement wall.
Heres a pic a quick pic of a window frame that I plan on using. When welded to the bin wall you will be able to cut the opening out no matter where or how many rings it spans. Of course if its a real big opening you would need bigger than 2” L angle steel.
I’ll work on a good frame drawling tonight of a door way that is bottom have half cement wall and top half bin wall. K?
Chad Ellis wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_EKTLnKjfs
Umm.. no ex-spert here? But I believe it is about “No Smoke & No Heat” out of the exhaust?
That Video doesn’t show enough about what is going on in it?
Kari Gunnlaugsson wrote:Nice project. I have some questions...
On the windows and doors, what I’m getting ready to do soon is, Frame welding 2”x2” 3/16 L channels around the openings, I have a roll bender at work so I can make the horizontal 18’ radius pieces easily enough. Then barrow works plasma cutter to cut the openings in. Then I’m thinkin of lag/bolt wood frames to channel & attach windows to the wooden frames. For the outside, I will need a good sheet metal guy to fab the radius horizontal drip edges that will cover from the window seals to the curved metal siding. The windows will be vertically flush mounted to the exterior walls windows. (meaning the middle of doors and windows will be recess a bit?) I am working on this currently with my architect that I "had" to pay the big $$$$ to, This is considered faze 2, see I have to get all drawings’ approved by the township first. But thankfully they are working with me & we are following as many metal building codes as possible!
As for an earth bag foundation? I am “Know ex-spert” (well, we all were at the start.. sorry if you don’t get my off humor, one of my fav comments when I am around so called experts in my travels, as a part time consultant) , but I would say no, maybe look into the packing the recycled tires, but “sand” I’m think in any form would not make a firm enough foundation for supporting a grain bin or any kind of weight other than a roof? see the top rings of a grain bin can’t support much, the bottom rings are much thicker & need the complete circle for its sturdiness. If you buy a big enough (tall) grain bin just use the bottom rings, but dont cut out complete rings for doors or windows or you will ose your ridegness, then it might work? With a poured cement foundation, then you can cover outside & or inside walls with earth bags, I thought about this in my initial plans but because of the height I knew it waz not feasible for me.
Thanks. Yea I read about it in mother earth. As luck would have it, it was perfect timing. I was getting married and we were planning a new house. I actually had an idea of building an earth ship, but that was harder sale to talk the wife in to lol. I searched craigslist And found the grain bin for sale.. no regrets yet,
Dale Hodgins wrote:Am I correct in assuming that the height of the concrete wall made it impossible to find the right jacks that are made for slab mounted buildings ? Did you ever consider using a scizzor lift or buying an old crane ? Old Hi-Ab trucks are often available for $5000 or so and would be worth just as much at the end of the build.
There is a spray on cellulose product that might work to insulate. What do you have in mind for that ? Will a wooden interior stud wall be built around the peremiter ?
Yes the poured walls made it very dangerous! I will attach some more picks. Maybe a more experienced installer would have been fine with it but I sure waz not. after i got 5 rings up with Jacks, I had to crane pick it from the upper level and over the septic. We waz about 40ft off center. Apox weight waz 15,000lbs. Boomed up the full 100ft. I also have pics of this.
I picked up some massive I beams from the scrap yard. They will make the full span in the middle, mounted on 6” square tube legs. The floor joist will span from I beam to metal bracket hangers welded on the steel walls & have the studded walls under them to support them as well.
I plane on studing the inside walls 1 inch off the metal walls. This way I can get the thermo barrier between. I am going to use a closed cell spay foam. Only on the basement level. It will help being a moisture barrier. The main floor & upper level will be open cellulose spray foam.
Fred Morgan wrote:Perhaps some kind of hybrid. I can see wanting a feeder, but you want to be able to get it out of the way so you can do it yourself, in the case of a power outage that goes on for a few days, like happens with ice storms.
Yes exactly Fred, I was thinking of (could be small geared 12v battery powered) Large Diameter auger feeding chips/pellets? like 4" to 5" light duty corn augers (like the ones I have laying around here at work) I have not seen any chips being combusted in this way. I ass,u,me they would get sucked in to the fire chamber before complete ignition? Has anyone on here tried burning chips or pellets before? I have this “grand idea” lol that you could make a ceramic baffle, a venturey shape, at the entry of the fire chamber, right at the point of the combustion. & yes if power goings out simple slid bad out of the way & you got manual feed all day..
