Horse poo will be fine, just make sure that it is not totally saturated. And that its dried out before you use it, that is you need to rehydrate it. I ran into problems because I over hydrated it and the mycelium could not breathe. Oh, and this may be the most delicious mushroom Ever!
Depends on what you grow and where you are. Blue oysters will fruit pretty much year round. But obviously nothing much grows in the dead of winter. you really need an insulated and climate controlled space if you want to grow year round. And you might need to switch from cool loving to warm loving species to keep costs down.
dan long wrote:I have a fish tank with a submersed heater to keep the humidity high, the light out.and the tempature at 26. The weather, however is 20 during the day. If i moved the basket outside with a clear bag over the top.and.misted 3x per day and the tempature (maybe) drops below 15, is the basket likely to pin? Is therea anrother way to initiate pinning?
it's pretty strain dependent, but if the temp dips down to 15 then yeah it should pin, all other things being OK.
Derick Greenly wrote:It'll be a J-tube, certainly. I'll be working closely on the cooktop most times it's in use and be happy to feed to suit my needs.
As for Drake's caution, I do thank you. But my thought for a little while now has been: grain bags in anyplace but a filtered, clean incubation room? A touchy nuisance! Who needs it? My work will consist of:
-Grain spawn in jars (I can hold enough grain spawn in both arms to spawn enough substrate to half-fill this space and then spawn a mess of logs. Half gallon and quart jars will do fine, and reliably.
-Sawdust substrate bags, straw substrate bags and sawdust spawn bags for logs and rafts outdoors (this is where my use of "spawn" maybe threw you off).
I have previously and successfully grown many jars of Liquid culture and grain spawn in a drafty area with a nice fat spore load. Please let me know if you'd still worry about sawdust in bags in an environment like this. I suppose my observation of (other people's) Stropharia, Shiitake, Oyster and Elm on pasteurized substrate in (essentially) humidified semi-outdoor conditions has instilled quite a confidence in me in this regard.
no it's really just spawn that's the problem since it's so nutritious, and you're expanding it, and the membrane seperating it from the outside world is a micron or two thick. Your sawdust bags should be fine as long as you don't plan on expanding them in sterile cultivation. what happens is a few spores can get sucked in the bag, and start growing, even though you can't see it the mold can be there.
For the combined purposes of: (1) spawn production beyond what a bedroom closet can handle; and (2) season-extending indoor production of select species of fungi (in reusable containers-don't you worry!), I intend to repurpose our defunct silo foundation room and adjoining "feed room" as a growroom and mycological lycaeum. Pooling from E&E's annex plan and the BIG BOOK, I'd like to install a rocket mass heater which spans both rooms, thus heating the growing area and running spawn-heating vessels using the readily available wood fuel of our Great Lakes biome. As shown in this picture, my intend is to have the feed tube and barrel just inside the work room, passing the ducting through into the spawn house, around one of the 2 monolithic walls, back into the work room, up and away! The bench will look like a flattened quarter-round tucked against the wall. I accept that I'll have to step over the thing repeatedly. I intend to use the warmer (inner) area for spawn run, the 2nd warmest area (RH outside) for fruiting (this means it should be closed off to contain a humidity spike, yes?) and the barely-heated area for either finished-spawn holding or to become my clean-room/lab.
I would put my lab and flow hood out in the workroom, but its ability to be kept clean and still is a distant second to the spawnhouse. Thoughts on this matter are welcome.
The old silo above will be sealed off by means of silicone applied over the edges of the steel door which opens through the ceiling.
Thoughts? Glaring flaws? Where will the concrete room fall in the thermal mass/heat sink/heat robber spectrum? 8 inches thick on all sides, I believe. Any cleaning concerns with cob at ~100% RH for several months? Will the residual old corn, of which I'll probably never scour away all traces, present an insurmountable contamination spore load?
Thanks in advance!
if you plan on using filter patch bags for spawn then you should probably just save a lot of heartache and quit now. you will more than likely become very frustrated, quickly, with throwing out all of your hard work. I would know as I used a straw insulated room as an incubation chamber. Jars might work fine. Substrate bags might work fine. But grain spawn in filter patch bags will probably not. A high spore load and temperature swings is going to push spores into your bags. Even if you can't see them at the time of spawning, they will germinate and ruin your substrate. Since jar filters are thicker, you can probably get away with them. Or, if you can keep the temperatures +/- 5-10 degrees, you would probably be OK.
or you could spend the big bucks and use mycelia/saco2 bags. if anything nasty shows up in them, you put it there
I too got different varieties. I enjoyed the small berries but the large ones never ripened. The small ones fall off when ripe and have super delicate skin that bursts very easily. I thought it was because I was playing with gibberellic acid in the kitchen since the giant ones looked like mutants but I guess not.
I know a Dutch mushroom farmer that uses a modified Jean pain mound that I hope to implement on my farm. He uses hot compost, chicken manure added to wood chips and sawdust. 300ft pex in compost in an IBC tote. He uses several of these in series, with false bottoms for aeration. Water or glycol is circulated thru the system to radiator coils and panels in his grow rooms. Hope that helps.
I'm surprised you permies haven't gotten on the hydrated lime or detergent bath. It will save you a lot of energy, maybe irrelevant on the home scale, but if you start doing more it will save a lot! Heating water is quite expensive. Just soak shredded straw in a saturated hydrated lime (calcium hydroxide) solution or detergent solution (all free + oxy)(1-2Cups per 55gal) for 12-24 hrs. Drain for 4+ hrs since it won't be steaming off.
I don't have a yeast book but maybe you should get a syllabus for a university fermentation class. University of California is the leader in that field me thinks. If not you should be able to find a suitable book with google. I think strain maintainence is different for yeast than multicellular mycelium. Like I think it's more prone to just dying for no apparent reason. But I have a FOAF that works for wyeast labs, they do all the hard work for the brewers! Along with white labs. If you've ever been in a brew store those names should ring a bell.
Speaking of stuff that will drive you up the wall. As a recent college grad who did a lot of Eco/bio study. Naming habitats is boring enough to make me cry! To walk into a forest, describe it as an upland woodland mixed mesophytic oak/hickory/pine habitat, and then collect data to back up that description. Well, then you've passed advanced ecology and biodiversity.
Joshua Myrvaagnes wrote: But is there a form of phosphoric acid available that's not in a soft drink? Thanks!
Two possibilities: 1) If you make your own biochar, put bones in with the biomass that you are charring. By having bone char in with your biochar, you have a source of phosphate ion that can leach into the soil and bind up any soluble lead.
2) If you think that is too slow, because leaching the phosphate out of the bone char is a slow process, you can get the phosphate into solution as phosphoric acid by soaking the bones in vinegar:
niki carpenter wrote:Hey everyone! I'm new here, a friend sent me over to see if I could spread the word about my new mushroom project. I would like to find a way to grow culinary mushrooms on local waste materials to sell at farmers markets and to restaurants in my area, in addition to feeding myself and my family. In exchange for your financial support, I can send you yummy mushrooms when I harvest them.
Nikki, I don't have cash but I am a mushroom farmer. I would be happy to send you as much stuff as I can spare. I upgraded to a 3000sqft grow space and have some left over equipment that sounds like you could use! My biggest question is; do you have a flow hood or still air box to do sterile tissue work, like petri dishes in? It is a big investment for a beginner but if you're serious about cultivation it will pay for itself very quickly. Otherwise I'm not sure how much good sending you cultures would do...
Angelika Maier wrote:I tried once to grow shop bought stem butts on cardboard in the cupboard and failed. About half of them developed a mycelium, but then it didn't grow further.
I want to try that once again, some questions:
1. The picture in mycellium running sows stem butts sliced across, I did sections lengthwise as shown in youtube, what is better?
not sure about this one
2. How much moisture is right?
for the cardboard it should be damp but not soaking wet
3. Do I transfer when everything is full of mycellium or earlier?
never used this method but in sterile tissue culture you just transfer the leading edge of growth. If you don't see any mold you could wait till it's grown over and break it up into pieces, then innoculate more substrate.
4. Stamets then puts it on a bigger cardboard does this happen still in the cupboard in a box or outside?
it just needs about room temperature and high humidity
5. When do I transfer this outside? Is it always on a bed of woodchips?
You can use more cardboard, newspaper, woodchips, etc in a plastic bag with holes poked in it for fresh air.
I will start with shop bought mushrooms because I know only two edible mushrooms here which grow under pine trees. I would love to attend a mushroom hunting class but this is not available.
My second question is how to grow reishi mushroom. I have some dried reishi mushrooms and I wonder if I could use the spores. Stamets describe a method extracting them in water. But I am not sure weather my spores are viable, to get into Australia they are irradiated. Worth a try?? And then can cardboard be used together with the spore slurry?
I am very much interested in the non sterile method, because I know that the sterile method is not for me (it is the same issue that I don't make plans about crop rotation).
You're wasting your time with button mushrooms, shiitake too. They ususally don't have much life in them by the time you see them in the store. If you have a farmer's market try to find some oyster mushrooms, since they will be fresher, you have pretty good odds of success.
if you want to grow reishi, I don't think spores are a very reliable method for propogating them outside. see if you can get a culture from inside australia. Reishi should do well in non-sterile cultivation- it grows quite fast!
it probably depends on what species you're trying to grow.
I think you'd be well served researching 'properly prepared button mushroom compost'. Often it is derived from manure and straw. You can pretty much mix anything rich in cellulose and nitrogen together in the right ratio, water and turn, and get good stuff. The spent compost is what you buy as 'mushroom compost' in garden stores.
dan long wrote:I vaguely remember seeing a documentary on button mushroom cultivation where they were adding chicken manure to the substrate for added nitrogen. That being said, most of what i've read regarding substrate focuses on adding carbohydrates through flours, grains, sugar, etc.
I'm playing around, in my head, with the idea of combining straw bale gardening with saprotrophic mushroom cultivation. Inoculating in fall, i can get fresh bales and put them out in October after the slugs have gone into hibernation so as not to provide extra habitat. Then I have 5 months of cold incubation for the mycelium to colonize and start to break down the bales before growing season starts in February, which with the heat coming off the bales, and a hoop on top i can get started early. I might have to fertilize (urine) the bales in February, though so that plants can grow healthy. Will the fertilizer be bad for the mycelium?
That chicken manure was added to make proper button mushroom compost. Phase 1, it gets hot, gets turned a few times. Phase 2 they try to steam all of the excess nitrogen off, leaving about 1% or so N content before inoculation. So no, you don't want too much N or you will likely get more contamination.
I guess you could call it selectivity. People just use nutrient poor substrate to give the desired myc a leg up over competitors. Straw, cardboard, straight sawdust...My favorite low-tech method is wood pellets + boiling water in filter patch bags. Wood pellets are basically 'pre-sterilized' when they go thru the pelletizing machine. With agressive myc like oyster or reishi you can expect a pretty low contamination rate. That's another technique- more spawn equals less time colonizing equals less contamination. Enoki seems quite prone to green mold IME.
I don't think the idea in the OP is really viable since plants need more nutrients than wood chips or straw can provide. You could try planting them in the soil below the bed though. Mushroom farmer here. My spent straw logs ended up being mulch for our vegtable garden this year. It works quite well keeping weeds down and moisture in. When it rained we got some mushrooms. Also, a lot of frogs started showing up when we mulched. Oyster mushrooms eat nematodes. I plan on sheet mulching with spent sawdust blocks this fall, along with wood chips and spent straw logs. Though, I've heard straw logs can be fed to cattle and sawdust blocks to chickens.
Joshua Parke wrote:I came upon this reishi in the woods. It's in a pine forest, so from the small amount of research I did, it's probably Ganoderma tsugae. I didn't pick it because I wasn't aware if there were any poisonous look alikes.........apparently there isn't.
I've been seeing people on facebook talking about inoculating edible mushrooms into their woodchip piles by blending mushrooms into sugar water. Does anyone have experience with this? Would this work for reishi? I don't have any decaying pine on my property, so I was merely curious about spreading it around the forest if I did decide to go back and harvest it.
I'm going to have to do some research on this, but I was excited to share. Any idea on the age of a reishi this size? Do they become more potent as they grow larger, or are the smaller ones more potent?
hey Josh- while I haven't seen reishi fruiting from wood chip beds, that doesn't mean it's impossible. Logs and sawdust blocks are just a more sure-fire method. If you can find wood pellets in your area you could make a bunch of blocks for cheap.
Dave Redvalley wrote:I'm having a helluva time sourcing hardwood chips to cultivate my garden giant spawn. I've noticed quite a few local shops with hardwood pellets for smoking your food along with other types of hardwood chips and chunks. My idea is to use a combination of the pellets, chips, chunks, and pine shavings as a substrate for cultivating the king stratopharia spawn I have. Anybody have any thoughts or experience with this.
if you're considering buying wood pellets for smoking, they are quite expensive. wood pellets for heating and usually pretty cheap, but you're in Idaho and it's the summer. So I think your best option may be to get some wood mulch. Stropharia loves the stuff and you can probably source it from a nursery or landscaping company. That's if you can't get in touch with a tree trimming company. I got them for free that way.
I have never seen them on real logs before. kind of wierd because they for sure can fruit on sawdust, though they can be tricky. The mycelium is aggressive but needs a significant consolidation or incubation period like shiitake. Strains that fruit vigorously without induction (like cold shocking) are desirable. That's why a local strain might not be the best. There are only a couple floating around that are supposed to be good fruiters. I would contact the people at mushroom mountain and see if they have ever fruited it on logs, since they did send you dowel spawn. Reishi will totally fruit on logs though. Very aggressive.
John Saltveit wrote:Even his company admits that a lot of the info is outdated. Some of the protocols on sterilization are outdated, and some of his best recommendations on how to cultivate forms of mushrooms are outdated. He doesn't mention putting the gills of the mushrooms in sunlight for example, because it had not yet been invented. His section on blewits is not very carefully described.
Oh, ok. I was thinking his more recent book I gourmet and medicinal mushrooms was reprinted less than 10 years ago. The mushrooms cultivator is from the 80's I believe. I have heard people doubt that Paul ever fruited Blewits indoors.
Dan Tutor wrote:Good to know! I haven't read that one, just heard great things. Does it go into specific growth parameters for different species?
Not that it needs to, Paul covers that thoroughly in the other two, just curious.
been a while since I read it, but if it does it's not as many species as Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms. That's my bible. But I'm a mush farmer full time
"Yes, some of the practices in the mushroom cultivator are outdated. Mycelium Running isn't just a how to cultivation book. It has a lot of that, but it also has a lot on how mycology can benefit our society in many different ways. It's the newest book, so it has the newest research and techniques."
What's outdated? You also have to keep in mind that some of the ways that 'mushrooms can save the world', Mr. Stamets holds a patent on. He has a crack team of lawyers on payroll, I know someone who has been served a cease and desist order by them. Some of the science, specificially the mycofiltration and oil spill clean up is shaky. Neither were peer reviewed. Mycelium WILL degrade oil and bacteria, but not nearly to the extent which he claims. His numbers for % degredation are quite a bit higher than anything I've seen in a peer reviewed journal. If it was actually going to save the world, the bio-remediation industry would be on board. Something that may have a larger impact is the start-up building insulation panels and packaging materials out of sawdust colonized with reishi mycelium. That is something we need more of.
mick mclaughlin wrote:Someone asked about false morels. i found these in a yard where i am builfing a shop. the cap is not attatched to the stock. once you see both, there is no comparrison.
some of those could well be morels. can't tell since they're in the mud. half free morels are not choice, but none of those are 'false morels' which are Gyromitra esculenta. Half free morels are indeed not attached to the stalk at the base of the cap, hence the latin name Morchella semilibera .
M.K. Dorje Jr. wrote:I inoculate my compost piles, wood chip piles, sawdust mulch and potting soil piles all the time with spore emulsion/slurry made from various species of mushrooms including Black Morels, Blonde Morels, Shaggy Mane, King Stropharia, Prince Agaricus, Almond Agaricus, etc. I just take old mushrooms (or wash water), toss them in a bucket. add warm water, a tablespoon molasses and a pinch of salt. I stir it up and a few days later I spray or dump or sprinkle this stuff all over the appropriate substrates. I just inoculated a bunch of newly potted and grafted baby apple and pear trees this way with Blonde Morel spores. But to really heat up a compost pile fast, just pour a bucket of fresh urine on it- that will get it going faster than any mushroom- this is really cheap and easy inoculation! Hope this helps!
where do you find fresh almond agaricus? I think there is only one commercial grower in the whole USA! You certainly are not finding them wild if you live in Oregon as they are a tropical species. I going to give their cultivation a go this summer but don't have high hopes.
I think oysters would fare better in a cellulose rich environment rather than kitchen scraps that the OP was talking about.
@William, take what you can get that's free, but I don't know how effective rotten oyster mushrooms would be. They are almost always rotten by the time they hit the shelves here, since they are trucked in 2000 miles from cali and weeks old. Except for the Hokto brand, they always stay fresh some how.
Florian Kogseder wrote: Making liquid cultures is just as easy as making spawn jars, you just use a different growing medium. This year I got a success rate of over 98% (4 contaminations on 236 spawn jars) with just a pressure cooker for substrate sterilisation an a spraying bottle filled with water to make a cleanroom out of my bathroom.
More dedication to the art of mycoculture than I have!
yes that is very impressive! I would like to see what all you grew with that amount of spawn! The problem I ran into was growing yeast, probably because of brewing beer and kombucha in the same room. Mycelium will run it over but it's still not good. You cannot see it in LC but you can smell it. I agar petri dishes because you can see the contamination most of the time. I blend them up with sterile water and pour that into big bags of sterile grain, much the same way you would start a liquid culture. It's called liquid inoculation instead.
To keep things on topic I will share a video of a variation on spore slurry and stem butts;
I'm curious about the blewits because I have 25 pounds of blewit grain spawn ready, yikes! it's totally the wrong season for them by the time the substrate will be colonized....
Rusty Shackleford wrote:A few weeks ago I was reading Slow Death by Rubber Duck by Rick Smith, Bruce Lourie
One troubling point they bring up is the prevalence of BPA in non-plastics. Given the popularity of cardboard mulching, and the essential nature of 'brown material' in vemicomposting, I thought I would share:
that is a very eye opening book! However, I'd be more worried about avoiding the receipt paper itself. I'm just remembering being a sandwich shop cashier in high school here, and all of that paper I handled.
Who even knows if plants uptake BPA? Or if it's bio-magnified up the food chain?
The single biggest thing you can do to avoid it is avoid caned food and drink, as it lines almost every aluminum/tin can out there.
Landon Sunrich wrote:Cutting out the gills with a pen knife seems like less of a pain in the ass than spore printing on know varieties
really? hmm. FWIW, ports are notoriusly difficult from spore, rather ironically for how pervasive they are in the grocery. Oysters and reishi would be way easier. Stropharia and shaggy mane could be easy from spore to straw or compost, as well.
You are going from one extreme end of the scale to the other extreme end of the scale. Blowing spores into the wind is almost guaranteed to fail. But you don't need a "cat 100 clean room" to give yourself a reasonable chance of success. A glove box isn't hard to make. A pressure cooker, hepa air cleaner and a little knowledge of sterile technique bring this within the abilities of most people without breaking the bank. Pick up a copy of The Mushroom Cultivator by Stamets and Chilton."
I was talking about liquid culture, which may have been a little off topic. I am a mushroom farmer and I started out with that book, a still air box, a pressure cooker, a wing and a prayer.