Mike Haych wrote:I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has some first hand experience. I can google as well as anyone but it hasn't been productive - I've not come across anyone who clearly states that they've done what they say works.
listed in order of effectiveness and cost;
1. traps -
First pic works well on voles - second pic works very well on voles and pocket gophers. #1 because they work every minute they're in the ground.
2. momma cat - NOTHING hunts (and harvests) better than a mother with kittens to feed. Coyotes ate my last female cat and the remaining male only likes to eat birds. Seriously, I killed a vole and tossed it in the cat food dish.... picky prick ate around it. I finally removed it after three nights.
If cost is an concern, I'd suggest traps. Buy once, zero upkeep unless you send one through the lawn mower. Cats require food and some form of security, so the neighbors dogs (and coyotes, owls, hawks) don't eat your vole killers.
- L. Daniels
Edit to add -
Trap in the second pic works better than these Victor #0610's
Ease of removal. It is my understanding that "fly ash" (the light gray floating stuff) needs to be cleaned out periodically. Removing the barrel makes it much easier to vacuum out that section. Plus you can inspect for creosote.
BUT - I do not have a RMH, so I'm just regurgitating info I've read here.
If you have freezer space, fold the hides in half - skin to skin. You can stack them but make sure they're frozen before you pile too many on at once. The hair will insulate and prevent the inner skins from freezing, rotting the hides.
I'd say remove the salt. Since you haven't fleshed yet, you're only dehydrating the fat/meat that you want to remove. Not the skin.
If you can't freeze them they have to be fleshed, stretched, and dried. The hides can be re-hydrated when ready to tan.
You can tell if it is too late by hair slippage. Try to pull the hair from the hide. It should stay put.
I'm guessing you have a barn yard mutt of the breed Ameraucana (crossed with a barred rock) Easter Egger is another common term for green/blue egg layers. I have a few and I like them. My oldest is 6 years old and laid 2/3's of the days during peak laying season.
I also suggest waiting until the younger chicks are physically big enough to defend themselves, or safely escape.... have as much coup and run space as possible. There will be some rearranging of the pecking order. It could get ugly. I watch mine for a few days after combining, making sure the lower birds aren't being harassed to much.
Lee Daniels wrote:....I'm thinking these dogs should be looked at like community members/assets rather than My or their dog...
Let me clarify, these would be my dogs. I would be responsible for feeding and care of the dogs. I would be responsible for the damages causes by my dogs. I mean community assets or tools more than members.
Michael Cox wrote:Also - what have you got against having a few treats for the dog on you when you are out? It is so simple yet so powerful from a training perspective.
I was envisioning a dog skills/agility course handler, or Westminster dog show handler, running around with a bag constantly feeding the dog to get it to perform.... an example to me that the dog doesn't work without treats. I also thought of "treat" as something special, not the same old dog food they eat everyday. I since have been informed that "treats" work very well and can be weened down, so I'll most likely try it to start. I'd like to get to where I feed the dogs when I eat. They'd get fed when the job is done, or during a break.
Thank you EVERYONE for the very detailed replies. As you can tell, I'm new to this. It has been 20+ years since Rex and Ginger and they are still the best dogs I've seen. I hear stories of other great dogs, so I know they exist. They are just rare.
Here's a thread specifically about Wheaton Lab/Ant Village dogs. http://www.permies.com/t/26860/labs/dogs Paul lists some of his requirements also. At the bottom of this link, in the "Similar Threads" is Dog training I found very helpful.
paul wheaton wrote:I guess most dog owners have a fenced in yard at home. So they can leave their dogs in the yard, go do stuff and the dogs are fine. Maybe we need a bunch of dog people to come visit and build a dog fence. An area for dogs to romp and play and people can go and do stuff knowing that their dog is in the dog play area.
Is my idea of having Ant Village dogs that stay with me not a possibility then? The dogs would work (herd or guard) or hang out with me while I'm working. I dislike the idea of having them penned up while I'm working around the Lab. - if that is the final solution - I would agree to any zero tolerance policy concerning livestock killing or harassing.
Please add any other info or qualities you think an Ant Village dog must - or can not - have. I'm thinking these dogs should be looked at like community members/assets rather than My or their dog... so usefulness and the non-killing of chickens and ducks are a must. I know my description sounds like "superdog" but that is what I want. I know it will take a few years, and I may go through a few. If I can't train it correctly, then I won't keep one. I will not own a problem dog.
I was thinking, get a pup now and train it not to kill my chickens at home. Teach it basic obedience, then take it to the Lab and see. Another suggestion was get set up at the Lab, then get a pup... a real working dog farm pup.
Realistically I can't be an Ant until next summer, but I can come over as a gapper, for a week or so each time, this summer, fall, and maybe winter.
Su Ba wrote:The dog shelters and rescues constantly have to deal with people's poor choices
I do not want to be a contributor to that problem. I want to be trained and confident before I even get any dogs.
- I also have ordered the suggested book and viewed a few youtube videos. Thank you. I have a few more questions now, hahaha.
Here would be the scenario. Ant Village, the dogs would help moving livestock around, never hurting or harassing other livestock, does not (unless told to) chase deer, - running them off is ok but not taking off through the woods like a fox hound. - but will alert to and defend against livestock eating predators. Ideally would take directions from others when working, not just me... instead of, or without me. I am including duck and chicken with livestock... all farm critters you'd like to keep alive. Another thing would be willingness to work with other dogs, good dogs, not useless dogs. Useless dogs eat chickens... 2-3 dogs total (for me) I would assume others would have dogs also.
In the field reward? I won't walk around with treats, so that is out. I'd rather not stop to play tug of war or fetch, until we're finished. So no toys either. By then, the reward may be to late..?.. If trained to treats, would the dogs keep working without their treats? Also the reward has to be something others have to reward them with..... I can only think of large/dramatic/playful amounts of praise. Are these questions answered in the suggested book?
Breeds? Given the above criteria, which breeds should I start my search with? Low "personal" dog upkeep would be nice. Not a breed that needs haircuts, yet WINTER hardy.
Training? Once I'm trained, should I get one dog at a time or raise/train them all together. After reading the above suggested blog again, I'm leaning toward one at a time. The first one trained can show the others what I'm trying to say.
In another thread I made a statement about being "anti dog" I'd like to change that to "anti useless dog"
In my teenage years, I had neighbor who had two very well behaved dogs. His dogs would heel, stay, hold things in their mouth, they would stop immediately if told so, they would guard when needed.... they did anything you would ask......... these dogs were not dogs. They were Fur Persons. The male, Rex, was 3/4 black lab and 1/4 german shepard. The female, Ginger, was all german shepard. I one time watched Jim, the owner, take Ginger out and herd and load cows. Rex would go hiking with us - even had his own doggy side pack bags. Rex was also an excellent bird dog - grouse in the timber and pheasants in the stubble fields. Other bird dogs were always spaztic crack feinds looking for a fix, snorting all over. ol'Rex just sat there, looking up, waiting for Jim to say "work" Rex knew we wanted birds. His dogs never needed yelled at or tied up for misbehaving. I grew up in mono crop farm land, wheat, pea, and barley fields, not cattle farm land. So a dog that worked was a rare thing. Just no need for them.
One thing I believe is its more the trainer/handler than the dog. Jim's dogs weren't anything special. He just worked with them. Is there a class/course/book available that excels at instructing handlers in proper techniques? Verbal control would be a must. I don't want an animal I can't trust, and I won't be drug around by a dog on a leash. I'm out in the country, so city leash laws aren't an issue.
I'd want a dog that knows what I'm thinking. I know that will only come with time working the dog. practice makes perfect. I'd want it to help me more than hinder. A livestock dog, a guard dog... a Fur Person.
Lee Daniels wrote:
yep - donkeys work well too - and donkey manure is more useful than dog poo.
- L. Daniels
Donkeys only protect against the canine family. They aren't helpful against feline predators or bears or give warnings against birds of prey.
That was supposed to be funny. Guess I should have added a smiley face, BUT (hahaha) I partially disagree and offer this local story as proof of donkey, maybe it was a mule, usefulness controlling feline depredation.
One HOT August night, about 2 am, old farmer/rancher is awaken by the sound of this donkey (maybe a mule) kicking the shit out of his metal sided barn/lean to shelter. Old boy heads out buck naked with his flash light and gun. Because that is how we respond to bumps in the night on the farm lol. So old boy heads out with his flash light. Sees the donkey/mule kicking away and hears and/or sees something in the barn. Side steps and shines in to see a huge pair of eyes in the barn rafters. End result is a dead cougar. Every year cougars are killed around here stalking peoples pet horses. Donkey/Mule was very good alarm I'd say. :)
It depends on how long the podcast is, and how much you want to write. But ideally it is at least 4-5 paragraphs.
Is there any interest in short and sweet descriptions? Like the daily email. Just the highlights... like a movie trailer. I have listened to about 40 podcast and only read a few of the summaries. The few I have read are very detailed, as in why listen to the podcast detailed. So I quit reading them. I didn't listen very well because I knew the out come. Lost its entertainment value lol
One sentence for each different main topic discussed.
My suggestion then, a dog and coyote proof duck coop and enclosure. I have a 8 chickens left, in a 6x8 coop with one length of Premier electric chicken fencing, but not electrified. Never had a dog or coyote issue at night. I know they sniff around. I see them on my game cameras. My smaller chicken yard exit door is always open. Yes anything could get in. I don't have racoon, opossum, or snakes locally. There are skunks around, but they haven't become an issue.
One dog will alert you and your kids to another dog's presence. I'm thinking day time, but even when your family is out running around at night, your dog will smell the other and respond. Giving you and kids time to run away before a coyote attacks - very, very, rare I'd like to add, but possible, I guess.
Hope you solve your problem. I know the first time I lost chickens to an owl... (I left the man door open and was late getting home, the owl flew right in and started biting of my hens heads off. I pulled in to see the owl flying out of my coop, I knew it would be bad. Lost 7 of 12) I was on an info search to prevent it from ever happening again.
Thank you Dale (and other reviewers) for these tool reviews. Due to lack of others posting, it may seem like you're talking to yourself? Not true. We're listening, you just can't see us, or we have nothing useful to add.
I will be buying an EGO 56v chainsaw because of your other review.
I do realize my statement may not be popular here, BUT traps work every second they are in the ground. Traps have far less up keep than a dog. And as you know, dogs sleeping inside are not protecting your critters.
Disclaimer, I'm pretty much anti dog. I have lost more chickens to domestic dogs than all my area's wild predators combined -birds of prey included. If you're not holding the leash... then its a coyote.
One option is see how much a live, raised to your specs, pig costs - then start subtracting costs..... piglet, feed, time, a vet bill when something goes wrong. With only one pig, those costs per animal will be pretty significant.
Do you bury your worm food or just lay it on top? I had a worm bin a few years ago and I seem to remember I buried, or lightly covered, the food. Mine was outside in the shade. Never had any bug issues. I also only fed half at a time, one side then switch to the other.
Beetles - the shiny black one inch or so long version - are not worm friendly. If a worm is caught on the surface, out of its hole, it is beetle dinner.
No worm juice - Is the drain plugged? You don't want to drown them.... yet
But, thank you for clarifying for others--I just realized....
I only said something because of the "bug" talk lately. Correct, they are not as many bugs out west, but we have rattlesnakes, cougar/mt. lions, wolves, bears,..... BIGFOOT... hahahaha... but serious shit that will kill you. Apex predators. Top of the food chain. You won't have to worry about the bee stings and bug bites. You'll be cougar poo, or a big bloated poisoned corpse. 911 doesn't matter. When seconds matter, help is minutes away.
on a side note, I read today that a cougar catches its prey 80% of the time..... wanna race one?
Any recent game cam pics? I remember a dead kid (baby goat not child) and a cougar game cam pic. Tim or his wife posted the pics. Without livestock I doubt they'd have a reason to be around, or at least noticeable. But without the dogs, there is nothing to chase them out.
Be safe, they'll sneak up on you. They're hunting.
Butchering Poultry, Rabbit, Lamb, Goat, and Pork: The Comprehensive Photographic Guide to Humane Slaughtering and Butchering
I looked through this book today at the library. I will be buying my own copy.
Here is the description from amazon;
Using detailed, step-by-step photography of every stage of the process, Adam Danforth shows you exactly how to humanely slaughter and butcher chickens and other poultry, rabbits, sheep, pigs, and goats. From creating the right pre-slaughter conditions to killing, skinning, keeping cold, breaking the meat down, and creating cuts of meat you’ll recognize from the market, Danforth walks you through every step, leaving nothing to chance. He also covers food safety, freezing and packaging, and tools and equipment. This comprehensive reference is the only guide you need to successfully, safely, and humanely slaughter and butcher your own animals.
Joel Salatin wrote the foreward.
Link to Adam Danforth's Beef butchering book - I haven't read this book, but it is whats missing.
My question is what tools would you recommend for a round log type jointery for the structure? Furniture and bowls/utensils also? My search found everything from 3"wide timber framing chisels to small hand carving gouges. Any other hand tool suggestions?
My "everything I can think of" list.
small stuff - pencils, scratch awl, squares, chalk line, levels
Rip saw - Suggested saw size? length?
Crosscut saw - same
Bow saw - same
Chisels and Gouges - length, width, straight and bent. Corner chisel?
Draw knife - sizes?
axe heads - maybe a special offset, weight, style?
Hole drilling - ?
Anything to avoid?
One would make mallets and any tool handles on site. (Paul, are there any hardwoods at the Lab?)
I thought there was a post already about a suggested tool kit list, but I didn't find it. Maybe the professionals can shed some light. I hate buying the wrong tools. Buy once, cry once.
I'd suggest trapping them. Traps work much better than hunting when its dark. Foot holds would be the non-lethal piece of gear to use. If your dog was caught in a foot hold, it would sit down and wait for you to release it. Use a trap with a 1/4" offset (gap when the jaws are closed) That will greatly reduce the chance of injury to the animal... and YOUR dog.
Another option is to ask around. Maybe a local trapper/hunter can help you out. Also know that it is past trapping season, you will need to check with WY game department and see what permit you need to trap them.