Thanks again for the replies.

I'm officially in the 2nd trimester! People say things should get better now. I do feel like I'm slowly turning a corner.

One thing I wanted to mention in the realm of nutrition is Susun Weeds Nourishing herbal infusions. I believe they are an excellent way to get vitamins and minerals into your body. I did them before I got pregnant and now that I'm starting to feel better, I'm going to start it up again. She suggests rotating through a few herbs during the week. The ones she uses are nettle, linden, red clover, comfrey LEAF, and red raspberry leaf. They are easy to make: a quart mason jar filled with one ounce by weight of the dried herb, then filled to th top with boiling water. Cap the jar and leave for at least 4 hours, I usually do overnight. Then strain out plant material and drink throughout the day. Only use one herb at a time.

In my opinion, if you can stomach it during morning sickness, these can replace prenatals vitamins because they contain so many vitamins and minerals in usable form. Nettle is probably the most nutritious of them all and I usually do it 2-3 times a week. I dislike comfrey the most so I rarely do it, it's a little slimy to me.

The only downside is I think it's a lot of plant material to go through if you are doing these everyday. You should of course compost the left over plant material, but still, it can be costly. You COULD harvest your own plants and dry them, but it would take a lot of work and you'd have to have access to a large amounts of the plants.

What I really love about Susun Weed is she emphasizes using the plants in your area for healing and nutrition. I think this is really important. I know Ayurvedic and Chinese healing are really popular right now in America, but I'm not Asian or Indian so my body will not respond in the same way to those herbs as they would to traditional European and American herbs.

Thank you everyone for all your kind and uplifting words.

Amazingly enough, even without folate pills, the vast majority of kids all over the world and throughout history come out fine. I'm sure it pisses off the pill companies, but that's the facts.

My husband keeps telling me this. I think that folate does reduce the risk of it happening for a pregnancy that is susceptible to it, but not taking it doesn't mean it's going to happen. I've heard plenty of stories of women who religiously took folic acid before and during pregnancy and baby was still born with neural tube problems so it is not a panacea, although I acknowledge its important. I also think there is probably more to it, like deficiencies in other things that blocks absorption of folate.

Pregnancy is so exhausting, I couldn't believe how tired I was, especially during that first trimester.

I am certainly very tired. I feel like I could take a nap at any given moment during the day. And sometimes I do. I sleep like a rock at night as well which has been really nice.

I chose to take prenatals because my diet was absurdly lacking in nutrients much of the time, and I just ate whatever didn't make me want to puke, which was usually just crackers and cupcakes up until I was around 4 or 5 months pregnant.

Well, that makes me feel a little bit better. After going through the things I have been eating, I realize its not all that terrible. I have kept a steady intake of pastured eggs, grass fed meats, chicken, grass fed butter, grass fed yogurt, watermelon, sourdough bread, grass fed cheese, and I have eaten some tuna here & there. I get really bad heartburn and reflux on top of the nausea so I have to stay away from most fruit and all juice. And anything that contains sugar (besides watermelon) seems to bother me. I have tried to eat green things and they always come back up so there isn't a whole lot I can do about that. I am trying to listen to my body and it doesn't seem to want uncooked veggies. I also have to stay totally away from tomatoes, which has been hard. We have a meat and veggie CSA and access to raw milk & yogurt from a really great farm so at least I have been able to consistently keep that coming.

And, it barely lessened in my second and third trimester.

Oh please don't tell me that!!! Everyone I talk to says "Oh, yea I remember having morning sickness. It last for like 4 weeks. I never threw up, but I had some nausea" or "Oh no, I never had any sickness with my pregnancy". I am like the worse case scenario I've ever known, which annoys me. Even my mom said "Oh I wasn't sick like that with you". It has eased a bit which I hope is a good sign that it will wear off. Instead of throwing up 8 times a day, I am down to about twice a day. I don't know how I would survive if this lasted another 6 months. I haven't lost any weight luckily but haven't even gained a pound yet.

Another suggestion for the nausea is rice toast/crackers and ginger. Those really helped with my more nauseous moments and helped prevent me from barfing. I also second not going long without food. Keep snacking, on whatever is healthy that you can keep down. It really helps a lot!

For some reason, ginger gives me heartburn so I haven't been able to use that as a remedy, though I heard it helps a lot. And yes, I finally learned that I must eat like every 2 hours or I get sick. It took me awhile to get to that realization and I wish I would have figured it out sooner. I noticed I need more protein than normal and if I don't have a protein rich snack, I will get sick and need to eat 20 mins later.

never did eat the placenta, though (maybe it would have helped!).

I do plan on getting my placenta encapsulated. My naturopath and midwife highly suggested it since I have a history of anxiety. My best friend is one month ahead of me in her pregnancy and we plan on going to acupuncture together after we give birth to ward some of that off as well.

A month or more before you give birth, start making and freezing dinners and get as many easy, healthy meals as you can ready. Get people to help you, even if you have to beg (I would have had to beg, because every time I called my parents about what was going on, they just said my Mom did it by herself, and therefore so could I). Get your husband to take time off if he can, and don't let him work overtime unless it's absolutely necessary!

I am sorry your mom said that to you! What a hard thing to hear when you are asking for help. Luckily, everyone in my family is already being very helpful. I am already running into disputes with my mother though about what kinds of clothes she is buying for the baby. I gave her some guidelines of what I think it appropriate and she is deliberately going against it and I can already tell this is going to be an ongoing issue. But, as far as help, I don't think that will be a problem, but who knows. My husband plans on taking 4 weeks off after the birth so that will be very helpful.

Just a little nutrition note. When we lived in Alaska a friend of ours was pregnant and severely anemic. Her doctor told her she was going to need iron shots, which I hear are really painful. She asked if there was anything she could do to avoid it and he said, "Yes, if you eat moose a couple of times a week you'll be fine". I mention this because all meat isn't the same (Capt. Obvious strikes again). Moose are browsers and really like willows, which are incredibly mineral rich (They grow a huge rack of mostly calcium in a few months). Since deer are also browsers I would guess their meat would be similar (except here in Indiana with our corn fed deer population. We aren't what we eat, we are what we eat eats. Better soil = better vegies, better graze or browse = better meat.

At my last blood test, my iron was good so hopefully that won't be an issue. I am eating lots of beef so hopefully that's keeping my stores up. I have never actually tried venison and I don't think I can try it now for the first time, though I don't doubt that it would be beneficial to me.

Thank you everyone again for your support, kind words, and advice. I really do appreciate it! It always nice to hear this kind of stuff from experienced people

Mick Fisch wrote:Stephanie,

Each person is different, so what I suggest may not work for you. My wife dealt with this through 9 pregnancies. What we found worked for her was that she had to nibble on a little bit of cheese before she raised her head off the pillow in the morning headed it off. If she raised her head up first, it was too late and she was making offerings to the porcelain god. If cheese doesn't work for you, then try something else. You need something on your stomach before you get up.

My wife would kick me out of bed to get her whatever she felt like she needed to eat an hour or so before she had to get up. I found with practice I could hold onto the sleep mode enough to get her what she needed and drop right back to sleep. This served me well when I was the baby burper in the middle of the night later on.

We did both standard hospital deliveries and midwife. My wife quickly decided that midwife was the only way to go and after that we only used midwives. We opted for a midwife in the hospital.

Don't beat yourself up about your activity level, etc. Your body is busy just growing a baby.

Oh I might try the cheese thing, thanks! My hubby has been IN REDIBLE through this whole thing and is basically waiting on me hand and foot. He's awesome and I love him and I'm grateful we are on this journey together.

Going to buy some cheese

Steven Kovacs wrote:Stephanie,

Congratulations on your pregnancy! "Morning" (ha ha) sickness can be terrible, though there is apparently some evidence that it is one indicator of a healthy pregnancy. Don't beat yourself up for your diet - the hit to your energy, plus the weird effects you may be seeing in terms of what food you crave or are repulsed from, will screw up even the best intentions for a diet plan. My wife found that keeping bland starches (saltines, etc.) by the bedside table helped a lot with the nausea.

Congratulations too on finding a midwife and managing to reduce your hours at work. Don't expect to get much done in the first 3 months after the baby is born, though. Some people do, and certainly the baby in the "fourth trimester" is very portable and sleeps a lot, but it can be a particularly exhausting period for everyone in the family.

Thank you!

I have heard about the saltines thing, but they repulse me so I haven't tried them. I notice if I don't throw up in the morning, I have a much harder day. Like I'll be sick all day until I go to sleep. But if I do throw up in the morning, it seems to be an easier day. So that's been a weird thing. I do plan on spending the 3 months post-birth basically in hibernation, which is a perk of a December baby I suppose.

Im quite upset that I haven't been able to eat liver and minimal veggies. I chose not to take prenatal vitamins or folic acid before I got pregnant and even now. And I'm always a little nervous about that decision. I know the window for neural tube defects is very early on, like first month of pregnancy. I ate lots of healthy greens, beets, and liver in the time period. But at 6 weeks when the sickness hit, all that went away. I'm bad at remember pills so I didn't take the folate. so I'm feeling very paranoid about my choices. And people haven't been shy about telling me about how stupid my decision was.

Haven't visited this thread in awhile.

I am currently 13 weeks pregnant and having a really difficult time. First curveball of many I assume. Morning (all day) sickness has hit me HARD and my diet and activity level is terrible. I've been a couch potato the last 6 weeks, my garden has gone to crap, and I haven't been eating a terribly nutritious diet. I'm not sure if morning sickness was something that our ancestors faced or not but I can't imagine having to deal with gathering my food whilst vomitting all day long. I've heard magnesium plays a role in morning sickness but my body doesn't react well the magnesium supplements and my magnesium levels were decent last I had them checked. And I still got hit hard with it. So I don't know.

But I did find a great midwife and plan on a homebirth. I'm having a great time finding used wool baby clothes for my December baby and I've reduced my hours at work in preparation for being a stay at home mom. And hoping that next year, even with a baby, it will be a little easier to garden and forage.

Thanks. I suppose I feel a little better now. Soil does build from the top down, so thanks for pointing that out.

I think I'm just a little frustrated because the first year we had our garden beds, we had a crazy successful garden. I suppose brand new clean organic soil and compost had something to do with it. Every year since (this will be our 4th year) the weeds have gotten worse and our yield has also gotten worse. I planted a lot of beet seeds last year and only got about 10 grown beets. And the greens were all scabby. Our onions did terrible and the tomatoes didnt redden before the first frosts came. We also gardened in a community garden lot which was a total flop due to the pretty much dead soil. I'm now finding out that gardening takes actual work. This is our first year doing no till so I'm out of my comfort zone, though I am certain it's the right way to go.

Peter Ellis wrote:Stephanie, on the burlap bags, my first question is whether the bags you have are natural fiber burlap or some synthetic. One quick and easy way to check is a burn test. Snip a little piece and light it on fire. If it leaves a blob, not powdery ash, it is definitely synthetic and likely will not decompose. I ask because a natural burlap in contact with soil for a year should definitely be breaking down.

If you plant through natural burlap, I would leave it year after year, trusting that tells soil organisms will eat it like all the other organic matter. I also would not worry about roots getting through.

Ok I'll check it out. I'm pretty sure they are natural. They have some kind of coloring or dye on them because they were green coffee bags.

I guess I will try the burlap thing in a bed or two. That way of it doesn't work, I won't be out of a garden. My husband is not fond of the idea so maybe this will be a compromise.

Casie Becker wrote:Actually, I do most of my mulching with a combination of cardboard (for starting most new beds) and ramial wood chips. I was actually wondering if there was something that I was misunderstanding.

I was curious what made burlap such a different experience than chipped mulch. Particularly since you say they didn't do well in your community garden. I find I learn as much about how to care for my garden by what goes wrong as I do by getting it right the first time.

To be honest, everything you say you did this fall sounds exactly like how I (and my mother for 30+ years) garden. We just keep piling different layers of organic material on the soil. Worms and other soil creatures pull it down to the plants. We only dig enough to fit seeds or seedlings into the ground.

After the initial mulch buries the seed bank it is just a matter of keeping ahead of new seeds blowing in. Weeds are very easy to pull from out of organic mulches.

So I'm my mind, the difference between wood mulch (which I have on the beds right now) and burlap is root penetration. Roots can penetrate old layers on wood mulch, I'm worried about roots penetrating burlap, which is basically landscaping fabric. Once my seeds sprout, I have plenty of options for mulching. I have access to wood chips and straw. But right now I cannot do any of those and I'm worried about the top layer of compost dying.

Casie Becker wrote:

Stephanie Ladd wrote:Thanks! I began setting up the burlap mulching yesterday and as I thought about it, I don't think it's going to work. It's not going to break down in one year and I don't want to have to pull it up at the end of the season/early next season and disturb all the buggies.

(

I'm a little confused about why you would need pull up the burlap at all. My wood chips mulches don't completely degrade in the course of one year, but I just push it aside as needed to plant and add more mulch on top. Is there a reason why you wouldn't just cut new holes for planting through the old burlap next year? That's assuming that it won't biodegrade in a year. I think people who are used to chemical agriculture tend to underestimate how much a healthy soil can digest in a year. My wood mulches are applied up to six inches thick and yet, if I don't refresh it, they will be down to and inch or less by the end of the year. If I'm trying to kill grass I might go as high as twelve inches, and even that is down to four inches or less after a year. It's only that very top layer that is exposed to sun, wind and weather extremes that will be slow to break down.

Well, last year I did burlap mulching in a community garden and it didn't turn out well and certainly didn't decompose. But my beds are much healthier than the other garden. Cutting holes in the burlap is labor intensive, but that doesn't mean I won't do it. I'm just worried I'll have layers and layers of burlap that will just build up and the roots won't be able to through. Is that not correct? How would I cut holes in last years burlap if I am sowing rows of radish on the top in compost? Would it be broken down enough for the roots to penetrate without be going in and shredding the whole thing? How'd that be any different from tilling.

Maybe I am missing something.

Thanks! I began setting up the burlap mulching yesterday and as I thought about it, I don't think it's going to work. It's not going to break down in one year and I don't want to have to pull it up at the end of the season/early next season and disturb all the buggies.

So what i did was just put compost on top and I'll layer lightly with straw and maybe on sunny days I'll cover it up with the burlap lightly until I see my sprouts. Then I'll mulch heavier around them. We have a big stretch of cooler and cloudy days coming so I don't think the soil is going to get too damaged.

The problem is I totally screwed up last year. Next year, when I put the gardens to bed, I will just put a layer of compost on top, then mulch. Then in spring I can plant directly into that. I don't know what I was thinking last fall

5. Permanent mulches attract vast numbers of earthworms. Undisturbed soils covered by permanent mulches over 4 seasons can have earthworm populations exceeding 1 million earthworms per acre = 23 worms per cubic foot. 1 million worms produce 1 ton = 2,000 pounds of earthworm casts = earthworm manure per acre per day during the growing season. That is a vast amount of free organic fertilizer.

If I grab a handful of soil, there is probably about 5-10 worms in that handful. We've been careful in the past not to disturb soil, so I think the worm population is a testament to no till= healthy. Thank you for the advice, it was very helpful.

Or you could lay your burlap bags down over the bed, and cut little X's into the fabric with a sharp knife. Then add a small bit of planting mix inside the X and plant into those holes.

See, this is why Permies.com is so great. I totally had a lightbulb moment when I read this. I have used burlap before but always as a mulch after the plants were big. I never thought to use it in that way before, and that it exactly what I am going to today!!! Thank you!

For my other beds, I am going to just do what the other have said above. Although, I never put compost into my beds last year, how should I go about getting the compost amendment in there without disturbing the soil?

Ben Johansen wrote:Loose straw mulch. Shake out flakes of strawbale, as a light layer over the top of your rootcrops. I've been doing this for years, and had little to no problem with germination. Grass clippings would be ideal, but loose straw mulch works wonders.

Awesome! I have access to lots of rotting straw from last years straw bale gardens at my place of employment. I will take some of those home and cover everything up.

Thank you!

What do you think about spreading compost on the beds that I haven't planted yet and covering them with the burlap and then planting into those? The only problem with burlap is that when you pull it up at the end of the season you pull up lots of goodies and you disturb lots of crawlies.

Late on this one but I still want to share.

At the childcare center we did some felted eggs with rocks in the middle. Then one day those eggs "hatched" and little felted chickies were inside. We made coconut chocolate "birds nests" and the children put 3 jelly beans inside. We also dyed eggs using beets, turmeric, and red onion skins. The turmeric and onions skins turned out really pretty, the beets not so much. And then we grow wheat grass on paper plates and that turns out to be the Easter grass. Then each kiddo goes home with a basket of one wooly chick, one chocolate nest, an egg, and a piece of sidewalk chalk. They were very cute

Hey guys, I need a little guidance here. Today I planted radishes and beets. It's gorgeous out today (50 something) but we still are having lows in the 30s at night and possibly snow next week.

Wait, first I'm going to start with last year. Last year when we put the garden to bed, we decided to add mulch on top of the soil to protect from the cold a little bit. It was stump grinding mulch from street trees. It probably wasn't the wisest choice but whatever. It was what we had.

So today I turned the very top layer (tried to minimally disturb)over in the garden with a fork and piled on some compost. And now I'm questioning if that was a good choice. I didn't want to till in the compost because I have sooooooooo many worms and spiders and milipedes living in there that I didn't want to disturb them too much. So now I just have a layer of compost on top which I directly planted the beet and radish seeds into. Do you think it will all dry out? Kill the good stuff in there? I have coffee bean burlap bags that I could put on top to protect the soil a bit, but then my seeds won't germinate.

Any ideas about what to do?

[quote=John Master]The food system in Wisconsin is a mess if you ask me, in general nobody seems to care very much, I'm always trying to eat well in spite of my surroundings and the selection at the stores and restaurants. Seems you can have anything you want to eat as long as it's junk food like corn flakes, Cheetos, pringles or highly processed meats. I can count 10 mcdonalds restaurants, at least 1 in every nearby town. I drive an hour each way past maybe 50 farms to the one that has figured out how to sell pastured raw milk in a legit way if that tells you anything about the situation (instead of having 5 local farmers fighting for my 6+ gallon per week business the way I envision it should be in Americas so called dairyland). [/quote]

That's an interesting perspective. I'm in Milwaukee and I notice some of what you talk about, but also notice a huge boom in healthier eating. I supposed it's different in rural areas, but here we have many many farmers markets during the summer and a winter farmers market that's pretty much sold out if you get their after 10:00 am. We have several micro green and aquaponic companies in the area that sell to local health food stores. We have a health food store chain that is booming as well. There are a lot of urban community farms popping up and last year I was involved in a urban farming program put on by the UW Extension system.

Where are you located?

You can even do it in the dead of winter:

http://104homestead.com/line-dry-clothes-winter/

Good question!

I'm extremely laid back with this kind of stuff. When I'm working with kids, I'm very lax on hand washing and dirt eating. After all the research I've done about soil organisms and how healthy they can be for our gut (I even take a soil organism probiotic), I'm more worried about children not getting enough exposure to those kinds of things.

That being said, I'd still be cautious around poop. I've had kids pick up rabbit poop before or touch bird poop and I usually just have them wipe their hands on the grass. And then I'd be sure to wash hands before coming inside to eat anything. Growing up, I never washed my hands. And I played outside a lot. So, maybe I was just lucky to never get sick.

Mick Fisch wrote:

We can't be sure what arrangements mama neanderthal had, since multi-generational seem pretty universal as far back as you can go.

Actually, my problem is less with babies than with toddlers. We always had the baby in a crib, basinet or padded drawer next to us for our own convenience. We both wanted the baby asleep when we had sex, (I can vouch that nothing destroys the mood more than a crying baby, especially for a new momma) but other than that we didn't worry about it. I'm sure the baby woke up once or twice to see the blankets bouncing. Didn't seem to scar them too much that I can see.

There comes a time though when children need to be out of the bed. I've known a few women who insisted on their baby sleeping with them every night when the 'baby' was three, which I have a problem with. At that point it seems to me they are trying to avoid their husband.

This brings up two other issues though.

1) I'm sure everyone has heard of someone falling asleep and accidentally smothering the baby. This apparently happened with one of my wife's aunts (or maybe great aunt). She was evidently a busty woman and fell asleep nursing the baby and rolled over a little and smothered the baby with her boob. This is everyone's nightmare. It can't be a common thing, since the race survived, but once is too much if it happens to be your child. Some might say it's an old wives tale, but a lot of old wives tales turn out to have an element of truth. I think maybe the calculated placement of pillows would help, but we rarely slept with the baby in bed for fear of this happening.

2) Keeping the baby warm. Baby's are small and can get cool off easily. and in a winter cabin you need to really pay attention to making sure they don't get too cold, or too hot. For their size, they are little heat generators, but when they are really small, you need to be careful.

I live in a city where a lot of co-sleeping deaths occur. And as a daycare directer, I am well versed in that whole subject. However, these deaths almost always occur when there are 2 factors present: Obesity and being under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

To address the warmth thing, I can't think of a better way to keep a baby thermoregulated than having her next to your skin.

I also like to not just consider the "what I want" factor and consider the psychological effects of sleeping alone in a dark room by yourself when you are 2. Could there be some? Probably. I can say for certain toddler neanderthals weren't sleeping in there own dark caves at 2 years old. There would be too much risk of them wandering off and getting eaten by a big thing with teeth.

And in terms of women avoiding there husbands.... I am not sure that argument stands with every family. Maybe a few, but I think we need to be careful about generalizing.

Anyways, I think the conversation should return to the original question, however, maybe a moderator could move this to it's own separate thread because I think there is some useful info in this discussion.

As a husband, I am against having children sleep with us on a regular basis. Unless there is a really pressing reason, that is my time. Pillow talk is important, as well as a love life. Kids in bed inhibit both

This is an interesting perspective I hadn't considered. However, co-sleeping has been a part of our evolution since before fire. Mama neanderthals didn't have a nursery for baby neanderthals. And you can bet a lot of nookie took place depsite baby being around. I wonder if this is one of the reasons for such a poorly developed sexual soul in woman and men these days? No pictures of healthy sexual relationships in children's lives sure can make room for some really unhealthy sexual pictures to form once they start learning more from a peer group. Of course, in our society, having sex with your mate in bed where your child is sleeping is grounds for Child Protective Services to come and take your children away, so I am not necessarily saying we should do that but just opening the discussion up for it and wonder, traditionally, what that looked like.

I agree with the others and say do it now. But I have some other thoughts to consider....

Not many people think about healthy child spacing. In other cultures, child spacing is very important to the health of mama and baby. I think 2-3 years is considered healthy. Some men can't even live with a women with a young child so that accidents don't happen.

Also, although I know many people aren't comfortable with this, midwives can be considerably less money than a hospital birth even after insurance. In my area, a midwife costs $4,000 with checkups, blood work, delivery, and post natal checkups. I haven't even given much thought to my insurance at this point, only in case of having to be transferred.

But I agree, fertility is something to be taken advantage of now. A good portion of my girlfriends that are my age (28 )are unable to have children due to fertility issues.

I also just now realized there is a homeschooling section so if the moderators want to move this thread there, please do.

R Scott wrote:There are tons of things to learn in the city, in fact you will end up making field trips back to the city if you move out

I am glad we waited to move out until the boys were a little older, they were able to be an integral part of the planning and building and are much more experienced because of it.

Those are really good points. I think finding land eventually will be something we want to do and having the whole process be a big part of the kids lives will be really good.

And yes, that's very true about the city. I didn't think of it that way.

The Big Snow is an accurate description of what the native animals to North America do when the snow comes and in the end there is 2 little old people that feed the animals when they are hungry. One of my faves to read to the kiddos.

There's a lot of really good stories in Waldorf education that are nature related. I've found a lot of the old ones have a lot of European ecology in them, but some don't. And I always like mixing up verbal stories without pictures as well and with them. I also alway like to tell stories that I make up as I go. A story about what bees do, a story about the returning birds after a long winter.... Kids will listen to whatever you have to say at 2.

First of all... So very happy to see a kids and parenting section here. Yay!

My hubby and I are planning to start trying to conceive this summer. I plan to homeschool (or unschool). My concern is that I won't be able to effectively teach my child about natural systems and permaculture in the city. And we really don't have the money to move to a homestead right now and even if we did, I hesitate to move myself and my kids away from all our family here. I really really really want to help my kids grow up knowing what the real world is. That nature is really what sustains us. A few things I do plan on doing here at home in the city:

- chickens!!! We will be getting chickens eventually
- bees!!! Those too.
- ample outside time (which means we will not have a television set so no excuses)
-wood chopping! We heat mostly with wood so there's always wood to chop and stack
-cooking, canning, and fermenting
- gardening. We have 3 raised beds and we have already worked with a permaculture planner to outline plans to turn the rest of our tiny lot into food
-nature arts and crafts
- primitive skills
- we live right near a river ( 5 minute walk) and a wooded area so lots of trees to climb

I'm sure there is more I can come up with.

Any other ideas? Can it be done? Thoughts?

(Yes, breast fed babies too. Breast feeding is hugely helpful, but it's not a guarantee of perfect health.)

I totally agree. Breast milk is only as healthy as mama. And working with families for 12 years, I know how some people define "healthy eating". Organic boxed macaroni & cheese is not health food, no matter how much you've convinced yourself of that.

I have been focusing on my health for the last 6 months or so. I try to only put nutrient dense food in my mouth, though this has proven to be expensive. We buy all our meat from Mastodon Valley Farm, a wonderful permaculture farm really doing all the good things. Organic, local veggies, wild caught fish, offal etc. But I have also been tracking individual nutrients because I am determined not to take a pre-natal or multi-vitamins. Through this process, I have lost 20 lbs and have moved myself into a healthier BMI.

I think one thing that helps if you do end up with a fall or winter baby (mine was October) is to limit their exposure to germs. Don't take them shopping or to daycare/babygroups, and make sure to change your clothes when you come home from work where people have been coughing (my husband is a phlebotomist in a big hospital, so we had to do a lot of quarantining).

I worked in preschool for six years before I had my little one, and was only took a sick day once a year. I think this really helped keep my son healthy. He only had one actual sickness in his whole first year. He actually got sick LESS two years ago when he was 4 months old, than he does now at 2 years! Now he isn't getting nearly as much breast milk as he did back then, and so is more reliant on his immune system than mine. My husband has also been more lax about changing out of his work clothes, and our son plays with other kids. These things really do play a big role!

Interesting. I don't see myself doing those things, though I see how it would be helpful. I will be going back to work at the daycare part-time, so baby will enter the germ-zone for sure. And I've never really been a huge germaphobe (although maybe my psyche will change once I have a sick kid!). Maybe I should lean towards having a spring/summer baby then. I've been working in daycare for 12 years so my body sure has been exposed to A LOT of germs. I don't get sick very often and my husband never gets sick. So, hopefully our kiddos will inherit a tough immune system.

Yea, I didn't get that part either. Springtime babies are conceived in Summer. I also don't see why the author automatically assumes that a winter birth isn't optimal. Some human cultures live in basically perpetual winter (intuit) and they still have babies. And, to me, winter does seem like the perfect time to merge. Cooped up and cuddled together, seems like it's a no brainer. Which would produce fall babies. I personally think fall would be the worse time to give birth. It's a longer time to wait until spring as opposed to a winter birth. And, in reality. At some point, no matter when you have a baby, you will have to go through a winter with a baby human. Maybe it's 2 months old or 10 months old, but you gotta do it. So again, does it really matter?

They definitely did have that problem sometimes, too, probably the same as us for individual hiccups and difficult starts. But definitely in extreme situations: starving mothers generally lose their milk, and often lose the baby. Our ancestors did endure that at many times. February is sometimes called "the hungry month."

This brings up another thing I am (kinda) obsessing about. As my partner and I plan out this parenting thing, a "birth season" keeps popping into my head. What is the best time to give birth? Of course, every season has it's pro's and cons of course. But, was there a birthing season for humans? Squirrels have breeding seasons, do humans? Being a woman, I know I am fertile for a small period of time every month. But it's every month and all seasons. So, does that mean humans don't have a specific breeding/birthing season? Or was it more like a baby that was born in June would be more likely to survive as opposed to one being born in February? But, I also think, if I got pregnant in, say, March, I would have all summer/fall to soak up the vitamin d and eat all the yummy green veggies and fruits and abundant animals to create a healthy baby inside of me and then give birth in December and nurse and cuddle and stay warm all winter. Does that scenario seem to make more sense? I have no idea. I'm sure this varied in different climates. I tried to look up "birthing seasons" online in Native American cultures and couldn't find anything. I searched "best birth month" and all I got was some mamas talking about how awesome it is to be pregnant in Winter because they get to pig out at Christmas and wear their UGG boots, omg!!! I did find some scientific studies saying that being born in certain seasons can increase risks for various diseases (ie if you are born in winter, you have 10% more chance of having schizophrenia), but they are such tiny correlations and seeing that most people are eating the Standard American Diet, I don't put a whole lot of weight on big studies like that. My husband thinks I am overthinking everything and that I just have to let things happen the way they will happen. We could start trying next month and it could take months or years to conceive a baby, so I suppose you can only plan so much.

My milk didn't come in until day 4, and when it did, my breasts were so engorged my son couldn't even latch. It was painful, and we just cried and cried. My husband had to help. We ended up expressing a small amount into a cup, and my husband fed him with a syringe at my breast to encourage him to latch. When he finally did, the pain was excruciating, but after a week or so, it subsided.

I have a dream at least once a week that I have a baby and I can't breastfeed. They are very vivid dreams and it's always me trying to nurse and nothing is coming out and I just keep saying to myself "keep trying, don't give up".

Holy posts!

Ok in the off chance Paul (or anyone) reads what I have to say...

"8 steps to a pain-free back" by ester gokhale is a must. It's a really cool book with lots of pictures of people in parts of the world that have this whole "posture" thing down. I really love looking at the pictures of straight backed Brazillian men. Also really love the ancestral spin she puts on it. Healthy posture=healthy back. She shows you how to sit in a chair on the computer with proper posture. As well as standing and sleeping and even walking. It's a pretty cool book.

Anywho, really hope you feel better Paul!

I try and remember the seasonality of foods. Living in Wisconsin, eggs are produced from chickens under artificial light at this time of year, which doesn't jive with my ethics. So, I've been trying to eat less but it is super hard! Otherwise, when eggs are in season, I have no limit on how many eat.

I agree with those above talking about fat. I used to eat a vegan diet and I was always always hungry. After a huge plate of pasta at dinner (like seriously huge), I'd be hungry to a dessert an hour later. Now I eat a highly nutritious, diet full of good fats and moderate carbs. I can go several hours without eating and no longer need a dessert. Although, cheese and chocolate can be very healthy foods, so either way, I think you're good!

I see a lot of people commenting that odor is caused by diet. I personally do not think that is true, but who knows. I eat a very very clean diet and my pits still stink.

The only natural one I found was Schmidts deodorant in the jars. I bought 3 jars when I was in Portland in April and recently ran out. It does have baking soda in it, but I haven't had any problems. I made deodorant for myself last year and I had bad rashes from that recipe. The Schmidts doesn't give me any issues.

One thing no one has mentioned yet is nutrient density of grains. From all the books I've read on the subject, grains contain minute amounts of nutrients and minerals. I noticed after eliminating grains from my diet, I eat about half the amount of food I used to because I'm just not very hungry. I read a book by Chris Kresser "Your personal paleo code". In it, Chris rates food from most nutrient dense to least. I think this was the order: organ meats, fish, red meat, chocolate, chicken, legumes, grains. Even if gluten wasn't poison, is it really in our best interest to fill out diets with empty calories?

Also, I chose to not eat grains for ecological reasons. Wheat cultivation destroys soil (Unless it's grown permaculturally, in which case it would eventually want to success to forest in my region). I also read Wheat desertified the Fertile Crescent. How many little animals and insects get pulverized during the cultivation of wheat?

Whether we are "designed" to eat it or not (for the record I believe we have not yet evolved to thrive on grains) I think there are many reasons to avoid them completely. And I think we should be careful what we wish for. We could "evolve" to thrive on grains, but we might become more bird-like. Although, wings would be cool.

Interesting question. From what I've read, sugar is sugar, whether in the form of raw, forest raised, pristine bee honeycomb, or grocery store shelf white sugar, it makes no difference. Now the ADDED benefits of both are probably vastly different.

Sugar does not so great things to your teeth and your body. And unless you are very active, consuming straight sugar on a regular basis may not be super great for you.

Our ancestors rarely had access to honey. It was a big
treat in Paleolithic time so they didn't consume too much. They also had to battle the bees for it without the gear modern bee keepers have.

With that being said, honey is my biggest weakness and I probably have at least a tablespoon a day. But I am working on weaning myself off of it and trying to only consume in summer months when I am more active.

It says page not found?

Thank you for your story, I really enjoyed reading it.

What an inspiration! At Thanksgiving with my very mainstream family, home birth came up. Man, people come up with horror stories! I mean, I know bad things can happen. It's the way of the world. But our culture is so so so fear based, it's a wonder we are able to make any decisions at all!

I agree with the above.

I completely 100% understand people eating vegan for ethical reasons. But when people start expousing the health benefits of veganism, I think that can be a bit misleading. If you have been abusing your body for many many many years, I think a vegan diet can help with initial blood sugar control and weight loss. But long term.... I personally think is dangerous (unless you are heavily supplementing). When I started feeling yucky on my vegan diet I said "I'm just not being vegan enough!" So i tried the raw vegan 80/10/10 thing where you just eat a bunch of fruit. I could only do that for about
2 days, it did a number on my body.

And I think you have to figure in genetics. Some people are really good at pulling out every last nutrient from a vegan diet and convert them well. Some people, not so much. Just because there is a few people who have been vegan (or raw) vegan for 40 years doesn't mean there aren't 20 people for every one of those people that got sick from a vegan diet.

As a permaculturist, I look to nature. The thing that got me eating meat again is that there weren't ever any long term vegan cultures in history. That tells me something.

In conclusion, and these are purely my opinions, I could be wrong, I think a vegan diet is great for ethical reasons, but pushing one for health reasons is misleading and can be dangerous.

Yea, I agree. Healthy fats don't make you fat, carbs do.

I like to use things local to my region. I use butter for pretty much everything (live in WI) .But, if you are allergic to certain things in dairy I'd use lard, tallow, duck fat, or bacon drippings.

I too have trouble with vinegar, it gives me heartburn. Unfortunately, I have no advice in regards to salads because I tend to avoid them.

Has anyone read "Our Babies, Ourselves"?

How is it compared to "The Continuum Concept"?

I'm in the middle of read TCC, and I'm enjoying it, although, it kinda makes me feel bad. I feel like I was raised wrong (I was born in the 80's, so there is probably some truth to it) and also like unless we all move to the jungle, we will never be happy. I know she doesn't actually say these things, but that's kinda what she's implying.

Thoughts?

I was vegan for nearly 2 years. I got real fat as a vegan, gained 25 lbs. And I wasn't a junk food vegan. I prepared all my meals from scratch. And I didn't move more or less than I did before I became a vegan. I also developed severe b-12 deficiency. I started eating animals again this January. My b-12 deficiency resolved itself immediately. But the weight stuck. I started a paleo/primal diet in September of this year and as of today I am down 20 lbs.

A caveat, my husband seemed to do well on the vegan diet. Although, I'd argue he wasn't healthy. He has and always will be a thin person. But he became... Um... Non-muscly on a vegan diet. He also switched to a paleo diet with me and he leaned up immediately. It was like someone took a vacuum and sucked all his skin closer to his body. His muscles reappeared and he toned up dramatically.

thats my "vegans and weight" story.

Some other common ones are please (tummy tub) and milk (fist squeeze like milking a cow.

I think if used correctly, they are probably useful. Baby signs were something I was required to do with the infants in my care at other daycare centers I worked at. Which is probably why I developed a distaste for it. The ones who did do it, the parents were also doing it, but like I said, it was right when they started talking. And then it actually delayed their speech because they could just sign it. If it's truly possible to get a 4 month old to ask for more (more what?) then I'd be amazed and wouldn't be so critical of it. But in my 12 years experience working with infants and toddlers, I haven't. Perhaps I should look up some YouTube videos.