Benjamin Dees wrote:A 50 gpm pump may be overkill unless you have a fairly substantial creek and/or pond.
I went with Tsurumi, and now, a year later, can't be happier with it.
Yes, I do need 50 nominal gpm. Flow rate quickly degrades as you add head; even in a long horizontal hose, flow rate decreases substantially, and I often use 300, sometimes 400 feet of it.
For that reason, I decommissioned all my 5/8 hoses in favor of 3/4.
With 200 feet of the hose and 30 feet head, I fill 50-gallon barrel in 8 minutes.
Thank you for another valuable podcast. Wanted to share some notes.
I do not think that the conspiracy to artificially shorten the incandescent bulb life is real: it only makes sense in capitalist world; I grew up in Soviet Union, and incandescent bulbs there still had to be replaced rather regularly.
It is correct that DC LED circuitry is much simpler than AC; in fact, you can connect the light emitting diode directly to the battery, provided it's rated for the voltage. I think that's what actually takes place in most flashlights: the only other electric component there is the switch. Take one apart and see for yourself!
After experimenting with LED lights for several years, I have been disappointed with the spectrum, price, and longevity; recently I have discovered GE Reveal LED, and they suit me so far (well, longevity is still being tested). They are not natural spectrum, but produce pleasant looking light (that is the big deal about Reveal trademark.) I suppose they are still subsidized, yet I haven't seen until recently many 570 lumen LEDs retailing at $6 a piece, and those that came close had terrible spectrum, or didn't last, or both.
One advantage of LEDs you missed is that they are not fragile; no filament, no glass.
It would be helpful if someone provided a link explaining the mentioned benefits of near infrared light for vision in particular (something I was totally unaware of); surprises me since I thought infrared is filtered out by cornea, and overexposure to it causes cornea clouding. I take it back, this is the case with 1400 nm and further infrared; looks like near infrared is mostly absorbed in retina but remains invisible since it does not trigger the receptor. Yet the only information I can find on this is about the dangers of overexposure.
I have considered LED as a grow light, but settled on an HPS.
You point on benefits of incandescent lighting during the cold months compels me to maintain two sets of bulbs, incandescent for the winter and LED for the rest of the year.
My greatest concern is the amount of heat you would need. Exposed area of your greenhouse would be 1000 sq. ft. Presuming U-factor of those recycled windows to be 0.4, at 80 degrees F temperature difference, it gives 32k BTU per hour, or about 10kW. You would be burning a cord of wood a month just for the greenhouse.
Hi Sune! Welcome to permies.com, and welcome to dome building!
I have build two domes recently, small one as a proof of concept and more sizable as a greenhouse.
The concept of a dome is fascinating, but there were a few things I learned the hard way.
In my experience, domes are particularly prone to leaking, because they are all roof.
Top of the dome does not have steep enough slope, so snow will accumulate there.
Besides the wooden frame, there are hubs that connect the beams (I can see them in your picture,) and set of them can cost as much as the wood. My design is hubless (requires twice as many beams cut lengthwise at various angles, and lots of screws,) and I am not sure if I like it more than the one with the hubs.
Standard windows and doors will be difficult to fit, and will cause deviation from the hemisphere shape. (Dome in your picture does not appear to have doors or windows.)
Small house I am planning to build will not be a dome.
Devin Lavign wrote:
Yes I am referring to the dacha, and no I don't remember the source of the 80% figure as I had learned and researched it several years ago back in 2010. In a quick search I found more than 50% of total agriculture comes from the dacha from a 2004 source, but that does not count in that much of that total agriculture is produced for export not domestic use. But certain dacha crops are in the 80-90% of domestic supply.
Thanks for triggering my curiosity; after some research I found official statistics. Looks like overall share of "household production" is now at 40%, only honey and potatoes (according to this table being at 94% and 80%, accordingly.
Even now, Russia is still net importer of agricultural products ($24B import vs $18B export, as this article suggests; compared to $60B produced); so, your "right now...feeding 80% of its population with small scale farming" is even further from being accurate. It's more like 35%, still significant. Also, I don't think "dacha" necessarily implies "organic".
I agree with your point, just the numbers looked a little exaggerated.
Devin Lavign wrote:
Right now, Russia is feeding 80+% of it's population with small scale organic farming.
Sorry about going OT, but do you mind pointing to the source? Being Russian, I am genuinely interested. I think you refer to dacha phenomenon and 80% is a stretch, even in 1990s, when commercial agriculture all but ceased to exist.
To me, the forum became much more usable without all those threads which are popular to many but not me. Thanks a lot!
I just need to make sure I do not run out of pies.
Thanks for the apple and the pie, too!
The creek adjoining my parcel opens to a 0.2-acre shallow (1ft or 2ft deep, perhaps) backwater.
More than once, a thought came to me to separate that backwater from the creek and introduce fish there;
but I don't have any idea how do do that other than dumping boulders and then gravel and then earth.
I looked up an article on Mother Earth News about creating pools, and it suggests laying timbers across the creek and filling in between them to make a dam;
but that's not exactly my case as I don't want to interfere with the main flow.
Could anyone give me an idea how it is done? Recommend a book, perhaps? I have zero background.
Or, perhaps, I don't even need to fully separate it to introduce fish?
Attached is the map; white and red thin lines are 2-feet contours; thick red is the parcel boundary; thick red segment between the promontory and the larger island labeled "26.61" is the distance in feet.
In the NW corner (note the interesting shape of the red contour line,) there is a trickling spring that I think kept the puddle from freezing at -20°F in 2014-2015 (and the last winter was too mild to tell.)
Interestingly, aerial pictures from 2005 (rather blurry) shows the present backwater area covered with vegetation, and the land I think was washed away after a fire (I keep finding charred pieces of wood in the ground.)
I just read a book on the subject, "Do-it-yourself sustainable water projects" by Paul Dempsey. The author goes into great details about water conservation, storage, collection and reusing, providing little hints along the way that only come from years of practice.
There is a chapter on well drilling, suggesting several techniques for doing it yourself as well as recommendation for when hiring a professional.
The last chapter discusses powering the well by wind, solar, and muscle power.
Mel Green wrote:
How big is your grow bed?
How much room have you got?
There are no grow beds yet, was considering a number of 26x20x8 inch trays (roughly 60 liters).
I have read that one should start with 1:1 ratio of bed to tank volume ratio and move towards 2:1.
"The room," quite a bit of it, is still being built; I am building a 700 square feet greenhouse.
At this point, I am just planning layout of the greenhouse, how can I arrange what.
Will try to use it without fish and see how it survives the winter.
Keeping fish outside is totally not an option, water will freeze solid and remain that way for several months.
Besides, I want the fish tank inside the greenhouse as thermal mass.
About trout I have heard that it's difficult to grow because it not only requires cold water (in the heat of the summer, too), but also running water, which is another level of complexity.
Definitely I am interested in trout, but not as the first thing I try to grow.
Hi Mel! Thanks for giving me that idea; I will research whether not needed professional water tanks are so plentiful in our parts as are in yours. I agree that it's better to start small, but I need to do proper planning while erecting the greenhouse; looks like I already limited myself by the dimensions of the door, though that still allows through a sizable inflexible object.
How small do you suggest to start with? What should be my constraints at this stage?
Mike Jay wrote:
You may want to consider some extra snow load supports across the middle at the low point between the domes. It's a bit hard to visualize the load paths but I think it may squat down in the middle and push the long sides out. Vertical supports should counter that situation though.
I agree, and building a support pillar in the center. There are also support struts in the middle section which will distribute some load.
The low midpoint, where the pillar goes, concerns me the most. I will follow your advise and stick a few 2x4 in the ground for the first winter.
Mike Jay wrote:It's a beautiful and creative design!
All praise, and some of the blame, goes to Paul Robinson. I might be the first person building to this design though, with a few variations.
Mike Jay wrote:Where's the door?
For a moment I panicked
See the attached picture. Another deviation: the door was supposed to be wider and recessed, but I realized I am better off resting it on the foundation beams.
I am a half-time "vegan" for religious (Orthodox Christian) reasons. There are four major lents totaling between 16 and 21 weeks a year, and most Wednesdays and Fridays; roughly 180 days a year or more when diet excludes animal products, including diary and eggs, and most of the time fish (at other times, also vegetable oil and wine; and on a few occasions, there is complete abstinence from food.) Orthodox monks never eat meat.
The reason for fasting is, however, far from the idea that humans and animals have equal right. On the contrary, the humans are considered caregivers of the rest of creation, "a righteous man regardeth life of his beast". Originally, humans were supposed to eat vegetable food (Genesis 2:16), but after the catastrophe that was the Flood, "every moving thing that liveth" was allowed to Noah and his descendants.
Tyler Ludens wrote:Maybe someone can explain how the robots fit into the design and ethical system of permaculture? How DO robots work in permaculture?
Computers do fit in, at least for communications, otherwise we wouldn't be participating in this forum. What is a robot if not a computer with specialized software and peripheral devices?
I dream about building an automated aquaponic system; not exactly robotics, but there would be microcontrollers monitoring things like ammonia levels and turning pumps on and off.
Robots are better at doing routine things than humans; the simpler the better though, from my prospective.
I am planning to experiment with aquaponics once my greenhouse is finished and tested by the elements (that is, next spring.)
All my encounter with aquaponics so far was Silvia Bernstein's book and this forum.
I do not think I have seen a sizable tank design discussed anywhere yet. Let's brainstorm?
Since I don't know any better, I am considering a smaller (1000 gallons) metal frame above ground pool not unlike this or this; what are the other options?
Shape: I expect round to be more practical than rectangular or oblong.
In-ground vs above-ground: the former should be more mechanically sound, but I am not sure how the temperatures will distribute in the winter. Need to experiment.
Material: plastic lining; what else?
Frame: could build my own, wooden or metal, but that will take a lot of effort and resources; I would rather go with prefabricated.
Further progress. About 50% glazed. Covering with 35-feet long bands did not work as I could not tighten it over individual triangles, so I resorted to rhombus-shaped pieces covering two triangles at a time. On a few occasions, I did tree- and for-triangle pieces.
Note how the plastic is pressed to the frame with wooden lath (I should have painted those too, just for looks.)
Question about number of vents is resolved: I will have about seven of them in the upper part, otherwise I can't reach from below to tighten the plastic.
There were couple of relatively severe storms, and unfinished greenhouse withstood without pooling of water in the flatter parts of the roof; so far so good.
Thanks for replies. Lake filter looks like a useful simple improvement, even though the pump is supposed to handle some filth.
I have seen pumps like 1.5 HP-ish Flotec and Wayne, but I think they were marketed as shallow well pumps, which is a different situation; I was leaning towards one of them, but submersible looked more appealing. Tsurumi pump I referred to has 2 inch outlet; I will try to fill a basin of some sort and, when water settles, irrigate with a lesser pump using garden hose, so that the more powerful pump does the lifting, and the lesser one just moves water horizontally; or just use watering can; or I can attach a converter to 3/4 inch and attach a garden hose directly and see how well it works.
Speaking of 3/4 inch, let me praise thick 3/4 inch diameter garden hoses as opposed to more common 5/8.
Did not have previously much luck with sprinklers due to intermittent pressure (the old pump was, as I said, whimsy,) and that other pump was 7 HP as opposed to 0.5 in the new pump (though I have a suspicion that gas engine HPs do not translate directly to electric motor's.)
PTO driven pump is an interesting idea, but not very relevant to my situation; I don't have a tractor and I do have electricity nearby.
Looks like my noisy whimsy cheap gasoline water pump went caput after just one year; I put in fresh nonoxigenated gasoline, changed oil and checked air filter, but it still barely moves any water and does not sound like it's working full speed. Didn't I know it's more expensive to buy cheap stuff?
Now that I got electricity I would much rather get an electric one; but I don't have a good idea what to look for.
Most of the pumps I see at stores are for clear water; I need to pump water from a muddy sandy creek overgrown with algae (because the water is rather stagnant;) but the water coming out of the hose looks to me relatively clear.
There is about 15 ft head, and I would attach 200 ft of 3/4 in garden hose to it.
Have you considered "unrecognized states" like Transnistria (between Moldova and Ukraine) and Abkhazia (between Russia and Georgia)?
Not on the top of "safe and stable" list (both have seceded after violent conflicts, but that ended about 1993, more than 20 years ago,) but otherwise I think meet your criteria.
You loose some, you gain some.
(I don't know if it will work for you - please do your own research; it might be not the best idea altogether; but these names are not even on the map and maybe that's why you never thought of it.)
In Transnistria, 0.5% of its half-million population are German, according to Demographics of Moldova; 0.08% are Gypsies, compared to 1.5% in Bulgaria. I wonder what is the best way of getting there though, as it land locked (except via Dniestr river,) and civil aviation does not fly there anymore; I imagine with EU passport the easiest way is through Moldova. Have never been there myself.
Abkhazia lost 60% of its population in the 1990s (for one thing, Georgians, who used to be the majority, fled in large numbers,) so I imagine land is available. From what I hear, is a very nice place to visit (but I only have been there twice as a child in 1980s.) Wide variety of climate zones there. Has ports on Black Sea. Ancient tradition (Germany is young compared to it,) which you definitely need to take in consideration; I would double check with the locals about wearing tank tops (though hospitality there, and in the region, is fabulous.)
I think it would be very useful to be able to ignore topics, rather than users. For example, to ignore the topic about growing lemons in zone 7 (since I am in zone 4 and can only possibly grow lemons indoors.)
It has to do with one's area of interest, rather than being nice, and I can't see any disadvantages other than having an ever growing extra table in the database.
Also, in preferences I can switch off certain forums (e.g., ulcer factory,) but that setting has no effect on recent posts view.
Rebecca Norman wrote:our vent simply consists of an open door, which is much larger than your proposed two 3-foot triangles, but lacks cross-ventilation. It would be a great help to have much more area of operable vents than we do.
I mentioned that I plan to have windows in the lower part, with the total area of tens of square feet, can be up to 100 ft², for cold air intake and general heat exchange; the smaller two vents in the roof would be just for hot air exhaust.
Last year I used cheap metal frame greenhouse (its deformed frame can be seen in background,) which was 200 ft² and had some windows for ventilation; results were satisfactory, the plants did not overheat, but the thing was torn apart by the wind by October (and we rarely get strong winds,) so it did not last a single season. In particular, poly cover deteriorated in the sun (and our UV index is rather low). Here I solemnly swear never to buy a cheap substandard tool just because I can't afford the proper one.
Also I use 8x6 Shelter Logic greenhouse (also seen in background,) which has two small vents on its opposite sides, and was happy with it, though its reinforced poly started giving way after two years, the zipper door being the weak link.
I expects the foundation and roof vents combination to work satisfactory; as the last resort, I may install two electric fans with temperature sensor to force the hot air out.
Ultimate goal is, yes, to use the greenhouse year round, but according to my calculations I can't go passive solar in December and January; I am planning to add a thin film on the inside and see how effective does that get.
You didn't write in which county you land is. For Duval county, I found map viewer; if you zoom in close enough, filter in the lower right lets you show contour lines, which will help figure out elevation and its gradient.
Paul appears to know his stuff well, but I didn't get much luck getting a response from him; there were a few ambiguities in this experimental design (it's my understanding that Paul hasn't built this particular model himself yet,)
and I probably did more that a few things wrong, cutting corners figuratively and literally. In particular, what was supposed to be a high point in the middle somehow turned to be a low point, and I will probably need to support it with a pillar before it collapses under snow.
If I started the whole thing now, I would probably resort to spherical design with hubs, and check all dimensions with my own calculations.
Timeline. Last October and November, while concrete was still workable, foundation was put (twenty 6-ft treated 4x4s with twenty "landscape timbers" laid on top.)
During the winter, cut 82 or so triangles, which took about 350 2x2 "furring strips". In March, when the snow was mostly gone, and early April, attached those triangles to the foundation and to each other.
Since the rest of April (two weeks were lost to family affairs,) was sanding the sharp corners, fixing sticking out screws so they don't rip poly film, and painting the whole think white or pink (because there were two gallons of discounted outdoor pink paint.)
Next step is covering with 12-mil reinforced poly film when the temperature rises a bit (if I do it now at 55°F, I am afraid it might sag in 90°F in July and flap in the wind.)
What I am not sure about is the number of vents; I am planning to do two 3-by-3-by-3 ft triangular vents near the two peaks, and several rectangular ones near the base. Any suggestions?
Also not sure about the best way to cover. Usually, if I get it right, the domes are covered with pieces big enough to cover of 2 or 3 triangles at a time; I will try to use 6-ft wide 35-ft long bands for the tunnel section and see if I can reach far enough to attach is all the way.
Express.co.uk does not list a source; in the official document (in Russian) I found only (Russian) citizens mentioned, curious why "disillusioned Brits" would be candidates.
It's definitely colder climate than most of the US, but not necessarily Canada; for example, in Habarovsk temperatures are similar to Ottawa.
Some of the listed regions actually constitute southmost Russia.
Kamchatka is not unlike mid-to-southern Alaska. Magadan may be in subarctic climate zone, but its latitude is a bit to the South of St Petersburg and Helsinki, and the climate is mild and only a little cooler.
None of these is Siberia, except Saha (that's where, in its capital Yakutsk, -40 is the average low temperature in December and January)
There have been other centralized efforts to stimulate development of Russian Far East; in Amur region, there has been recently a spaceport built, and the first rocket was launched just last month.
My county soil and water conservation district sells, once a year, young (18 inches tall or so) trees and shrubs for $1.10 a piece. Mostly large shade trees, in a reforestation effort, but also fruit and nut trees. I learned about the event by a sheer accident, searching for permit information.
City does the same, this year they had $17 Zestar apples (5-6 foot tall) which were sold out while I still was deliberating, and I wouldn't have learned about it if I didn't get on the city forester's mailing list.
Kyrt Ryder wrote:Don't choose a breed that needs to be confined in a building in the winter. Sure they'll come back to their mobile coup at night, but that coup moves throughout the property distributing the manure, and they're only in it overnight.
Hmm, in our parts, subzero daily high temperatures can last for days, -30°F is not out of the question, and the property may be covered with a foot or two of snow for months.
I definitely need to learn much more about chicken and their breeds before I try keeping them.
The idea of letting the chicken out for the entire winter had never occurred to me.
John Weiland wrote:
Seva, could you please point me to that clause in the county code? Thanks.
As for the rest of it, and in addition to what Bernard W. indicated, do you have your 3 acres fenced? Are you in a subdivision or is your property a 3 acre parcel surrounded by field/prairie/forest (in addition to the stream)? It's not a sure thing, but maybe investigate something called a "conditional use permit" as a work-around...(?) Bernard's observations are the ones I would use as argument for your ventures.
Bernard already quoted it, it's section 714.2 of the Zoning Ordinance, "livestock, poultry and farm animals".
About 1/4 to 1/3 acre (the vegetable garden) is being fenced, put the posts but not yet the wire.
It's a former hay field, recently subdivided into 2- to 4-acre parcels, most of which now have dwellings on them.
No fields immediately adjacent to me, but plenty withing half mile. Township hall is across the road.
Speaking with county clerk over the phone, she advised me that "you can apply for conditional use permit, but it will likely be rejected".
Looks to me that some Wright county rules are stricter than the mostly urban Hennepin's.
Bernard Welm wrote:
1) what zone is your property? at 3 acres I am guessing it will be Agriculture or Rural Residential.
It's A/R, but performance standards require minimal 10 acre lot size; so it's a PUD, and the rules for similarly sized R2 apply, as you correctly suggested.
Bernard Welm wrote:
2) Check what Animal Units you are allowed to have in that zone.
Per 714.2 you quoted, it's 1/2 animal unit per acre, so 1.5 AU in all.
Bernard Welm wrote:
3) Check what the requirements are for those animal units.
The only think I can find right now is this Summary, which has chicken at 0.03-0.05 AU, sheep at 0.1 AU, and goat not listed.
I recall seeing something about unlisted animals rated at 1 AU for 1000 pounds.
Bernard Welm wrote:
As long as you are not doing CONFINED housing (bringing all the food to the animals) you are not doing a feed lot.
What concerns me is that they always speak of the animals, even pets, in the context of a feedlot, as if one implied the other.
And in the winter, aren't those chicken confined in a building, and doesn't that mean feedlot by their definition?