Hey gang, just a quick update. I moved this system out to my pond and doubled up the pumps to put almost twice as much water down the intake. Ive reversed it so the larger opening is the intake and the exit is the smaller diameter. I let it run for 30 minutes and it still wont get any higher than 1 PSI. Im not sure if its just not enough volume of water (size of tubes) or something else. Very frustrating since this seems like it should be more simple. Any thoughts? Im happy to answer any questions or try things. Thanks.
I need to put a secondary chamber with a one valve on it, and I think that might help with the actual compression storage but it wont address the initial low PSI. From what I understand from the research the inlet pipe has to be smaller than the outlet, can someone correct if Im wrong? I believe Mr. Teslonian stated that in his follow up video as well.
Thanks Katherine, the larger air introduction was my next step and I just bought some parts to reduce the air chamber. Its all welded now so I have to cut and splice Those are great ideas and I will post my results. For those of you that are way smarter than me I need to be able to take whatever air comes out of there and then do a secondary compression but I can't seem to find any resources on manual compression in DIY context. Get gaskets etc to hold that much pressure may not be available on a smalls scale.
Oh and I have seen that video from Mr. Teslonian, he and Mollison both inspired me to do it. I want to experiment with small scale refrigeration and pond aeration all off grid. Stay tuned, and keep the comments/criticism coming!
I recently built a small scale trompe, here are the specs:
Closed system using a bucket of water being pumped to the top of the inlet and then returning to the bucket. Im doing this only to test out the dynamics of it, this will be used on a natural water way.
3/4 inch inlet with one straw for air introduction, this is about 8 feet tall
transition to 1 1/2 transfer pipe then to a vertical 3" air entrapment with 1/4 air compression gauge and valve. The air chamber is about 2 feet tall.
The outlet part of the transfer pipe then goes to 1 ". The outlet pipe is about 5 feet tall. I experimented with a one way valve to try and create back pressure. Youtube Mr. Teslonians Trompe Hammer for the gist of this.
No matter what I do I cannot seem to generate more than 1 PSI and of course once the pressure is releases the water level comes up and spills out of the top. I want to test this on actual falling water because I think it has to do with the volume of water going into the inlet pipe, it doesn't seem to be enough since im pumping through a 1/2 tube into a 3/4 inlet pipe.
If anyone has any further ideas/thoughts I would appreciate it and I can post more details if desired. I tried to contact Mr. Telonian but I can't find his contact info anywhere, he would certainly know the answer.
Got it! I actually went and bought coated 2x4 galvanized/welded wire. A little pricing but another guy near me used it and its very sturdy. I havent had any major problems with digging yet but if I do I will have to add something to the bottom for sure. thanks everyone for your input.
Already have the chickens, actually got some buffs this time as well.
Im actually plannning on putting wire mesh over the ground where the grapes are to prevent digging around the base, I ahve done this with my trees along with small rocks and it helps quite a bit. Still allows them to do pest control without the destruction. Im actually counting on them to eat pests from the grapes...we will see Thanks for the input.
This wont work with a programmable feature based on voltage, the idea is to have the loads run off panels and batteries until the batteries get drained below a certain voltage, in my case probably 25.4v.
As for the storage idea, Im basically trying to do that with freezers, the problem is that even if I have them set to run during the day it wont work if its cloudy.
Ive attached a pic to show the idea. The CC that is run off of AC/Grid would need to be programmable so that its only charging when the voltage drops below a certain point and the array cant charge the batteries. Make sense? Is there such a CC?
Right, so you got the panels going to a CC, then wiring from the CC to the batteries. Then a grid powered CC hooked directly onto the battery terminals at the same spot where the solar CC is connected. Although I think my inverter would then technically be hooked up to the grid CC as well and you are saying that wont work? Thanks!
I wonder if I could hook up a programmable trickle charger to the battery bank so that when the panels arent charging the batteries the trickle charger will keep it above and below a certain voltage? Im only asking because the grid tie may not be an option with my provider. IM still waiting to hear from them. Besides, with only 720 watts I really wouldnt be putting too much into the grid.
Sounds like an option, does anyone have any recommendations on brands etc? I assume the inverter can also be used as a standard inverter without grid tie? IM asking because it would be a good back up and would allow me to use my current inverter for other applicaitons too.
Posted this on the TSP forums, looking for some solutions.
Hi guys, skip to the second paragraph if you arent interested in the backstory
My system has been running really well. I have 3 240 watt panels in series, a 60amp TSMPPT CC, 4 105 Ah batteries, 24 volts. I keep a small radon fan on a timer to run during the day since it is tied into my battery ventilation. I generally don't draw down past 90% DOD/SOC even without a day or so of sun, but when I dont have sun and I want to run more loads like my freezers it obviously drains too far. Now I can just keep the system as is for emergencies and basic ventilation which was my primary goal, but I would really like to put it to work everyday instead of just emergencies.
Is there anyway to connect my larger loads to my solar system and the grid so that when there is enough voltage and power the loads will use the solar system and when there isnt enough it will switch back to grid tie? I think there are relay options, but are there any other DIY type options? Thanks!
To date I havent experienced that since I have some temporary fencing up. I do have them clipped and give them over 1/8 of an acre to roam on including grass and food forest. But to your point I was going to put wires in the top area between the top of the "solid" area and the cap that sits on top, im hoping that will discourage them if it becomes a problem. I will need that wire anyway for the grapes. Thank you for the feedback.
Thanks for the reply, I had planned on stapling it to the inside of the frame for a few reasons. First I thought it would look better for outsiders not to have to look at staples/fasteners and secondly Im planning on growing grape vines all along the fence and was going to train them on the wire. I guess I could bend the excess underneath it might just be a bit more tricky.
I forgot to mention that this is designed to keep dogs, foxes etc out and my chickens and ducks in. I may get small livestock down the road like a small pig, sheep or goat as well. Our neighbors dogs have already chewed through my electric poulty fencing...its not energized righ now because of little kids.
Im almost done with the framing on my new fence for my yard. Ive included a pic. My plan is to put wire mesh on 48" x 96" panel frames to form the "solid" portion of the fence in between the posts. I will staple the mesh onto the frame, but Im not sure what kind of mesh to use.
I do know that I want a coated mesh so it will last longer and look a bit nicer. I dont know if 14 or 16 gauge will be best and if it needs to be welded, looped or hardware cloth. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this? thanks!
That is exactly my thinking. 5 years vs 25 years. ROI is achievable for wind. Right now my system is perfect for emergencies as a base unit, but I would like to put it to good use everyday as well. Im trying to find a way to hook it up to solar while there is sun and grid when there is no sun. I think relays might be the answer but its above my electrical knowledge. Another issue is whether or not wind will work well enough in my area to keep batteries charged, without an aenometer I wont know for sure.
Thank you for the reply. I came to the same conclusion. Ive looked into a small wind generator to just charge batteries, but it would require alot more investment than I can afford right now. That cost would be well over $1,000; more batteries to double my current capacity would less than $550. They both have pros and cons, so Im still doing research. For now Ive removed the loads and Im waiting til spring to see how it goes.
So sitting it on the floor was bad? I should have elevated? Please explain. Im familiar with spring houses, I live in Amish country and all of my neighbors are either Mennonite or Amish, some have pumps but in this area alot of them are turning to solar.
Chickens for sure!
Ive done some research on the goats/sheep thing. I think an icelandic ewe and dwarf nigerian goat would be a good combo for both meat and milk, their food requirements overlap but dont overly compete. Bees seem like a good choice too, getting some myself.
Ive only tinkered with this so please take what I have to say with a grain of salt. My understanding is that you will be much better off having a lower temp air 90F blowing out in a larger volume than 180F in a smaller volume. Depending on the space size you are heating this will really come into play. I put my pc fan at the exhaust and I had 120F heat coming out. It did ok in a 10 x 12 room that already had alot of solar gain due to windows. The idea is to get as much warm air out of the unit to make room for cooler air like a radiator, thus putting on the exit point. I hooked my pc fan up to an old power supply box from a pc that converts the ac to dc, you could also use a 12 v battery Id imagine. If you can design it so your intake and outflow are able to be tweaked that owuld be best for experimenting. My 2 cents.
Marcos, Ive been putting more thought into the salt water idea. Wouldnt we want to have a higher melt point so the water would stay colder longer? I new to this concept, so sorry to be stupid about it!
Regarding your discussion point. I pretty much did what you suggested with running my freezer only during peak times. At the time I didnt have enough thermal mass in the freezer to keep it all the way through the night to the next day without the temps going too close to 32, I was getting alot of moisture build up as a result, which made a mess. Id like to mess with this more once I get more thermal mass. Its a tricky experiment since I have over $500 worth of meat in the freezer and dont want to risk ruining it!
I think I got it now. You are storing energy in ice instead of batteries? I like your approach, but the reason Im getting more batteries is because I dont have any more room for panels currently. My goal is to not discharge the batteries much lower than 80% on a daily basis and get them to absorption most of the time.
I have insulated my freezer, but I do like your comment on keeping the condenser as cool as possible. Im going to look at mine more closely because I agree standard chest freezers can be made more efficient. At what point does adding more insulation lose its ability to prevent heat into the cooled area? Is it based on thickness/r value or something else?
How do you get the right salinity level with common kitchen tools?
I thought about buying a used compressor for a fridge and just building a larger insulated chamber. I dont need 35F, so 45F would probably work just fine. Im experimenting with frozen soda bottles atm as well.
BTW does anyone know how often the batteries should go into absorption stage? I typically drain them down to 50% daily and get to absorption daily as long as there is sun. When there is a cloudy day my batteries drop to 22 volts(24 V system) and my inverter will shut it self down at 21 volts. IM just wondering how long I can stay between 21 and 24 volts before I start to damage my batteries long term. More of a worse case scenario planning than a day to day use question.
OK I figured it out. The incoming air was not warm or dry enough so I was getting minimal impact. Too bad, I need some form of no electricity or low electricity cooling in my basement for food storage. A root cellar would be awesome, but I dont have the ability to do that.
You were right on both counts I want them to go to apsorption every day if possible since im discharging them down to 40-50% daily. The timer makes sure there is a nice balance since the longest runs are during the max sun time as you pointed out. Ive found that my freezers can go 10-12 hours easily with no power as long as they are full, I have all meat in it now which helps with thermal mass. I try to leave it off in the early morning and late afternoon to help the process. Right now Ive been loading it up slowly to see just how far I can push it. I have 105 amp hour batteries, so 210 total Ah. I could leave the freezers off more, but for now Im leaving as is until I have time for more experimenting. My radon fan is plugged into it as well because that is how I vent my battery fumes too.
I have a PowerBright 2300 24 volt inverter. Its not top of the line, but it works great for what I want, at least for now. IM looking to get another 4 batteries so I can plug my second freezer into it. I have it set up so that I can easily go to grid power by plugging into outlets if my batteries need a break, or I can disconnect everything and trickle charge from the A/C.
Rob Sigg wrote:Yeah I was confused as to why my voltage was so high but my amps werent. I forgot that since they are in series the amps dont add up just the voltage. That was why I started the whole post, but in the process I learned alot of new things thanks to you guys. So thanks!
I was right. I did have some studying to do.
I was not aware that the MPPT controller involves the use of a DC to DC converter.
Your panels put out about 72 volts and 8 amps, but the MPPT controller can turn that into lower voltage and higher current.
Then I take it the current you measured was between the panels and the controller. If you were getting 8 amps at that point, then the current between the controller and the batteries was much higher.
Yup you are correct. This controller is really cool, Ive been very pleased with it to date.
Marcos, Id be happy to share any data or things that Ive found out so please dont hesitate to ask questions. Right now I have one 5 amp freezer, one 1.5 amp fridge, a radon fan, 2 ballest flourescent light...not sure total watts. I have everything on a timer so its 2-4 hours on, 4-6 hours off etc throuhout the day so it can get fully charged. Provided I have enough sun every day it goes into absorption mode easily within 2 hours. Ive been draining to about 50% DOD.
Yeah I was confused as to why my voltage was so high but my amps werent. I forgot that since they are in series the amps dont add up just the voltage. That was why I started the whole post, but in the process I learned alot of new things thanks to you guys. So thanks!