Who would be interested in having PEP/PEX done on their land?
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People Who Want Full PEP/PEX on Their Land: Paul Wheaton - Missoula MT
JT Lamb - BonCarbo, CO (see comments below for details)
Michael Chicoine II - New Hampshire (see comments below for details)
Jonathan Leonard - WV Leaf Bailey - Southern Oregon, USA
Tranqvillium, Sustainable Living Educational and Research Community, Tecopa, CA - email@example.com Amanda Wright- Dawsonville, GA firstname.lastname@example.org
People Who Want PEP/PEX on Their Land BUT Are Currently Full: To Be Announced
People Who Think Some Badges Could Possibly Be Done at Their Place: Mike Haasl - Northern WI, USA
Lina J - Annapolis, Md, USA
Skandi Rogers - Northern Denmark
Ash Jackson - Denver, CO, USA
Trish Beebe - Gabrovo, Bulgaria
Bonnie Farrell - Upstate, NY
Lex Eastwood - Rural NV
Hans Quistorff - near Pierce, Mason, Kitsap counties WA Swale improvement.
James Sullivan - north of Toronto CA
Sondee Grande - Southern WI, USA Raphael Blais - Qc, Canada
Nautilus Guild Jennifer Markestad in Tacoma WA
Chris Vee - Upstate South Carolina
Liam Hession - Missouri Ozarks (near Alton, MO)
Jarrett Hadorn - Etowah, TN (SE TN) - I think most of the full PEP projects are probably doable here
Lynne McIntyre - South East MI Carmen Carrion (Pierce County, WA state)
People Who Are Just Thinking About PEP/PEX on Their Land: Joshua Myrvaagnes (non-profit I've been involved in, I don't make the decisions myself) -- Capital District, NY State, USA
Carmen Carrion (Pierce County, WA state)
People Who Might Be Open to PEP/PEX On Their Land Given Some Time: Shawn Klassen-Koop - Somewhere in a flat part of Canada
Michael Holtman - Tennessippi
Matrim Schmidt - Central WI, USA
I would very much appreciate input into how to live without refrigeration. I've been off grid for a year and without the ability to keep food cool. During warmer weather I just don't have milk or fresh meat unless I'm going to consume it almost immediately. A couple of times I got frozen meat and used it the next day. But I'd really like a better system. I enclosed my typical, cheap ice chest in an extra 3 or 4 inches of styrofoam (recycled, of course) and it improved efficiency by about 100 percent but I would still like to do better. TIA to anyone who can give me great pointers.
So very many things to be thankful for! 1) My friend, Jesus. 2) Living off grid on 8 acres of wildland. 3) The rain today. 4) Family 5) Permies.com 6) 2 good dogs 7) Healthy food and progress in raising my own Vehicles that are - currently - reliable 9) Friends 10) my church 11 to infinity - There are just so many things to be thankful for. There isn't enough room here to list them all.
I tried to import purslane to my property twice without success. Then I got a load of rabbit manure from a friend and voila! purslane sprouted. It's still in the bucket. I'm afraid to move it lest I kill it again. But I do love it.
I've attached photos below as an idea of what is involved. Your load will be a whole lot smaller, but plan for it in advance anyway. I hope this additional information is helpful. Good Luck!!
Thank you VERY MUCH! for this information!! I would never have thought about it and, although they should be able to drive directly to the site, unloading will probably be a challenge. And, sadly, with the thievery in my area, I have already planned to have someone on site 24/7 until we can put it up. I think I'm about ready to sign the order but would sure feel more confident if anyone in the surrounding area has done one of these and wanted to be involved ... just suggesting ... hoping ...
Thank you so much for the helpful, experienced input. It's just what I needed. I've been dealing with a company called Mayflower and am about to sign the paperwork - unless someone warns me not to, anyway. About $18,000 for a 25'x30'x18' building to be delivered in June, but they'll hold it for up to another year if I'm not ready then. Any and all input still welcome. That's a lot of money to commit, not being able to see the future clearly.
John Indaburgh wrote:I bought an acre and a half with a Quonset Hut on it very cheaply. There was an addition built on to it with a masonry fireplace. The home was insulated and had an air conditioner and an oil furnace. The Quonset Hut was built on top of a 12+ course high concrete block basement. The QH was a 16 1/2' X 37.5' WWII military surplus unit erected in about 1950 as "temporary housing". There were rough cut 2x8's spanning across and into the top course of blocks. On top of this was a metal grid which the QH sat on. The side walls were about 4' high and then began arcing up. There were no windows along the side walls and you couldn't mount kitchen cabinets. There was a double width window on one end and a door and a small window on the other end. The steps to the basement were along the middle of one side wall and the addition was built along most the other side wall.
The addition added two rooms also built on a matching height foundation. The addition made it much more livable. It added two rooms with windows which complemented the 3 rooms of the QH. Because of the addition and the basement steps there were no windows in the middle room of the QH so we referred to that room as the "useless room". After 62 years we removed the "temporary house" and built a small real house. We framed out a bathroom and the necessary hallway in what was the useless room. We hadn't planned to remove much of the addition. The roof needed to go because the roof trusses sat on top of the QH. The walls weren't the correct height and then the builder found that they had used half the addition for a porch for a number of years and when they framed that in they laid 2x4's over the roofing and the floor under that was "soft".
Before I made my offer for this property there was an offer awaiting mortgage approval which failed because of the only bathroom being in the basement. I think that was a mistake as I can't believe anyone would put a mortgage on a Quonset hut and then on top of that the basement bathroom. That offer was for 15% more than mine.
We hired an Amish crew to frame the new house in 2012. They charged us $7800 to remove the old and frame out the new including the tar paper on the roof. They took 3 days for demolition and framing. That didn't include the framing kit; the lumber, windows. doors, etc. We did this in a county with a larger city with tough zoning. There was and is a septic tank which wouldn't have happen except that we used part of the old house; the foundation. There was a matching QH about 30 feet away on another lot which was torn down shortly after our project. They're now building an oversized 2 story house about a 100 feet away on that acre lot.
Wish I had an Amish community nearby. They have such a great reputation for building!
Indeed, many experts but how do I know who has good theories they want to try out and who has actual tried and true experience (especially when it comes to dealing with the county)? I will contact those people you have named. Thank you. I hadn't found any actual local people with experience yet. It will be worth the cost to have confidence in the advice. Thanks again.
Amy Gardener wrote:This housing solution is temporary, correct Carmen? If so, these temporary ideas probably exclude pouring concrete at this time while you settle on your permaculture design and long term plan, correct? Since you posted under “Tiny House,” do you want the ideas that we generate to be portable / moveable options? If you are dedicated to the quonset hut, please confirm.
However, if you are open to other ideas or brainstorming give us specific requirements (such as mobility, money, temperature, sunlight, time needed, cooking needs, available power, building skills and so forth).
I’m sure that experienced permies members are full of ideas if you free us up a bit!
For example, I (a true amateur working alone) built a cozy standalone “tiny bedroom” on stilts for under $1000 in the equivalent of a week of full-time work. Would you consider a tiny bedroom for your dad, a tiny outhouse and a tiny cooking shelter while you continue living in the truck camper for the winter? These tiny shelters could be repurposed later. Because they’re small (~5’ x 8’), heat is passive solar (no panels).
Thank you for your answer. My Dad will definitely not be open to anything tiny. He thinks 520 sf is way too small, wants his grid-supplied electricity, plumbing, etc. He is not of a permies mindset. He's found someone to live with him for now so that buys me some time, but probably not a lot. He is willing to live in a quonset if it has those things so that's what I'm pursuing.
thomas rubino wrote:Hi Lina;
This is an old thread. I know that Sandy/Cindy were trying to sell dragon heaters several years ago.
I do not know if they have or not.
I have not seen any recent posts from her nor a new owner of Dragon stoves.
You may not get a reply.
Have you seen the Liberator RMH stoves?
They are UL listed and insurable. They burn wood or pellets.
They can push 12' of horizontal pipe; a trusted source recently said they can push 18'!
Here is a link https://rocketheater.com/
Of course, As the RMH guy, I say build your own with our guidance.
That's all well and good if you know what you're doing but I'm all new to this stuff and can't afford to build something the county will not accept and, thus, would need to be removed. I'm willing to pay a fair price for the advice and assistance to do it right the first time. If I were just building an outdoor experiment it would be different but I'm not.
Is there anyone in or near Washington state that can put me in touch with people who know about rocket mass heaters and could help me present the idea to the county and eventually build one? I'm planning to put in a quonset hut next summer and would really like a RMH in it. The only mason I could find had no experience with them and would only order a kit from Britain - to the tune of about $10,000. Any help from anyone here, for considerably less, would be most appreciated.
Thank you to the voices of experience. That input is beyond value! I found a couple of companies that build quonset huts and they're very helpful but I'm having a hard time trusting them. They sound very much like used car salesmen - "There's just this one that the person didn't pick up. If you buy it today it's $10,000 off" and "Let me go talk to my supervisor - 5 minutes later - They'll approve it but someone's coming tomorrow to look at it and if you haven't bought it they probably will." and "How much can you afford? If you get this bigger one..."
From y'all's experience, is this normal or might they be legit? It is the end of the year and some companies like to reduce their stock. There is the odd person who really does put down a deposit and then not follow through. I don't want to lose out on a great deal because I'm being cynical but I don't want to be duped either.
Does anyone know whether the county will require plumbing and electrical to be included in the proposed plans? The quonset people provide engineered plans that are drawn up for each state's specific requirements, which is a huge plus for me! I'm finding the searching for workmen to be most daunting. But, of course, they can't know where my plumbing and electricity comes in and goes out. Am I going to have to hire an engineer or architect to fill in those details? This is being a whole lot harder than I expected.
Manufactured homes are accepted as are tiny homes but apparently they don't think ready made 'sheds' are sturdy enough. I'll check out Jim Walters. I would love to find someone near me that even is interested in what I'm trying to do. Most businesses don't even call me back. Thanks for the contact.
Forgot to explain why I'd build a wood structure inside the metal one - The metal would be the official (to satisfy the county) house. The inside would be smaller, wood, quieter and hopefully protected from the elements more so it would require less upkeep. Plus, we could live in the metal while building the inside, taking as much time as we'd need instead of trying to live elsewhere and using that cash for rent instead of building materials. Does that make sense? In fact, I was thinking if the quonset was a bit longer than the house and one end (of windows) was on the south side it would be almost like living in a greenhouse.
Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. My county will not consider any ready made or 'tuff' sheds as homes. I don't know yet if they will consider a quonset hut. I am looking at this as permanent. I was amazed how expensive it has become to live in the Pacific North 'Wet'. I work at a school job 6.75 hours a day and still can't afford even a room in someone else's house. In fact, living in the camper, I'm not saving very much. It seems like every month something comes up to either use all my extra income or even a bit of savings - dental, something breaks, etc.
When I have more time at the computer I will follow up on some of those links. I can't afford to be picky or spend a lot of time saving or building. I can keep working and make mortgage payments if I can find a lender. Does anyone in my area know of anyone who lives in a quonset hut or has built one? I would really like to have experienced help when/if the time comes.
Hey, everyone, I need some input from people with experience and know-how. I have a piece of raw land and need to build something livable on it as soon as possible. My elderly Dad needs to move in with me and I don't think off grid living in an old truck camper is going to cut it for him at the age of 83.
Quonset huts seem to be the most feasible and affordable. I hear they're rather noisy but was thinking that if I build, essentially, a wood structure inside the metal one it might work. I also hear that condensation can be a problem. Was thinking that if the quonset was a little bigger than the inside wood and it had great ventilation that might be mitigated.
I really wanted a rocket mass heater but realize that may be a pipe dream now. I can't even find anyone around here (Pierce County, WA state) who knows anything about them. I'm living off grid now so I only get to a computer when I get to the public library. Please be patient with me if I'm slow to respond.
On a secondary note - anyone know how to minimize condensation in the camper? My solution right now is to heat as little as possible, as rarely as possible but still the walls get quite wet just from my and one dog's breath.
Josh JohnsonKp wrote:Hello all, I'm new here but this thread came up in my search about using composting toilets in WA. I did confirm with my local county health dept (Pierce county) that public domain toilets are allowed but I'm having trouble determining who actually make such a beast. They of course gave me a list of their approved mfgrs like Sunmar and Clivus Multrum but I'm wondering what other manufacturers would fall into this Public Domain category?
Thanks for any help/advice in advance!
Wondering how your journey is progressing? Any success in getting a composting toilet approved in Pierce county? That's my county too.
Miguel Solis wrote:Thanks so much for the thorough post! It was a great place to start my composting toilet legal rabbit hole. I went ahead and read through all of the RS&G. It looks like to me (for the record, someone with no legal background) that the classic Jenkins composting method (in regular three-bin composter) would not be permitted since it's open-air and isn't sealed against disease vectors, but the Omick barrel-in-the-ground system would. I didn't find any leads for what rules, if any, regulate an 'excrement storage unit'... If your system gets permitted, please let me know!
So, how's it going? Did you get permitted? If so, how is it working and which kind did they accept? What county are you in?
Thanks so much!! I'm getting ready to build in Pierce County and would really like to use a composting toilet but didn't think they'd consider it so I wasn't even going to ask. Now I have at least a starting point. Thanks again - apples to you!
Barbara Kochan wrote:Hello Carmen. I am not clear whether you want rocket stove/oven cooking help, or open flame cooking help. I live in SW Washington near Cathlamet. I would be delighted to have you come by and see my various cooking methods and we can make a meal or more together. I have a solar oven, a small pot belly stove, a propane burner from a discarded BBQ, and occasionally I cook over open fire. All are outside. I have been cooking/eating this way most of the time for a few years. If you are interested reply here and we can figure out how to share particulars
I would love to get together with you! I'm exploring all options to see what I can be successful at and what's most doable for me. I have a very small rocket stove sitting outside, 4 or 5 bricks high, not sure. It works well. Then I was at a yard sale and the old guy was selling all the equipment he had used for a long time for a sizeable hunting camp. I told him what I was doing and he took a liking to me so he sold me the turkey fryer burner and a sturdy BBQ grill that fit on it very nicely. Also a round cast iron thing that's grill on one half and flat on the other. That's what I've been using mostly, just frying right on it over the rocket stove. He also had 2 huge cast iron skillets that he gave me for $10 (for both!). See, I told you he'd taken a liking to me. He also had a 5 gallon aluminum pot with a spicket near the bottom. I didn't take it because it was aluminum but now that I have to bathe there I wish I would have. It would sure be more pleasant with more warm water and the weather isn't exactly conducive to the solar camping shower bag.
My computer bit the dust so please be patient with me. Besides the move and figuring everything out I started a new job and now I have to drive in to the library to get online. I joined an exercise place so I can take showers more easily. Maybe by next winter I'll have a workable plan for home showers in cold weather.
Thanks again, everyone for the help and emcouragment. I'm lovin' it!
Thank you all for the quick and helpful replies! I didn't expect so much support, or so quickly.
I have a camp stove but I don't know how to use it, to be honest, and I'm too cheap to want to buy those small canisters all the time. Also, I read somewhere that using propane indoors doesn't take too long to really affect the oxygen level in a small space. In as pinch I will figure it out but outdoors will work for now.
Again, thank you very much!! You all are very encouraging. Everyone in my family thinks I'm crazy and my coworkers just raise their eyebrows when I mention it.
Julia Winter wrote:My rocket oven gets quite hot and it is a white oven. The heat riser dumps white-hot fire directly onto the oven. I typically put the pizza in when the thermometer is at 600 degrees Fahrenheit (315 Celsius) and that works very well.
So, I will dispute the claim that you have to have a stinky smoky "fire in the cooking space" oven to make excellent pizza.
Hi. I'm just getting ready to move off grid in about 10 days and have essentially no experience cooking over either a campfire or a propane burner (turkey fryer burner). You last notation says ask me about cooking so I'm asking - what beginner foods can I try?
Also - are there any rocket mass heaters or cooks in western Washington who would meet up with me and/or give me some pointers as I prepare to build my home here?
Thank you for your thoughts. I don't currently have electricity at the property and, to be honest, I can't stand the stench and deafening noise of generators (besides the fact that the last 2 were stolen). I do quite like the spiral pump. I'll have to read up on those and see if one will do the job for me.
I was on chip drop lists for years and never had so much as a communication, let alone a single chip, from anywhere. I have contacted multiple tree companies with no success either. If anyone has any suggestions to get results, please forward them.
Aimee Hall wrote:
5. T-shirts/clothes that require retiring often wind up as bags or aprons (sometimes if I score a particularly nice deal on clothes that do not fit but have a nice pattern and are part of a lot at the garage sales, they get turned into bags/aprons as gifts!)
This is what I do with old T-shirts, sweatshirts and sweatpants:
I was looking to see if anyone else does this before adding my 2 cents' worth. Using a rotary cutter, I slice them into about 1/2 " thick circles. Then connect them by looping through each other and back out. Pull tight and, voila, you have all cotton (if you're careful) yarn for knitting or crotcheting. Especially nice if you find a large lot all the same, of misprints or left overs at a yard sale or thrift store or wherever. Jersey knit sheets can be used too, for bigger projects, but connecting them isn't so quick and easy.
Another reuse, which you can either use or sell, is taking old denim, cutting out the useful bits of course - zippers, pockets, etc., and then cutting into quilt squares. At craft fairs the unsewn squares sell far better than the made quilts and since the raw materials are usually free it's a good thing.
Michelle Bradley wrote:Loving this post- and your/our common attention paid to reusing stuff. My recent idea to reuse the soft plastic ring from a Quaker oatmeal cardboard tube: pull off the two rings from the lid and the top of the canister, pull one ring through the other a-la how I would double the length of a rubber band by looping two together, and continue this looping until a large net is woven together. What use for the net? Maybe a soccer goal for my son...? A trellis for climbing vines...? Meanwhile the remaining cardboard is fire starter, etc.
My next large bit of plastic waste to find re-use purpose for is the darn heavy bags our dog food comes in. I keep saving them... one a month. Why can’t they come in burlap like coffee bags? Maybe I can cut in strips and weave into a produce basket-?? I did that with brown butcher paper one year- from packaging padding- and the brown flex baskets were well received by my family.👍❤️ Although I confess to using a hot glue gun to adhere /secure the ends.
If they're synthetic, (we don't always get to decide what our feed comes in), collect enough of them, sew together and you can use as a tarp.
John C Daley wrote:Here are some bicycle water pump systems, cancel the Gym membership!
One from England
Another from India
Another from Ireland
Oh, yeah. This looks very doable. I think I'll still keep the gym membership. I'm rather fond of WARM showers... But can use this for both practical water movement and exercise. Thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread.
Maybe not a tip on spending less but maybe, if motivation counts. When I have a hard time telling myself 'no' to some unnecessary item that I really want, I set the saved money aside in an envelope and when there's enough I spend it on something beneficial, but not truly necessary. So I save more and eventually get a beneficial 'luxury.'
Sheila Mleziva wrote:I am currently wearing out my panties which are made of some fake man-made fabric like polyester that is washing into our waterways and polluting the environment and killing the marine life.
I refuse to buy any more until I can find something that is 100% natural and compostable (is that a word?). The need is somewhat urgent as the current pairs of panties I have are getting threadbare but I will wear them until they are g-strings, if necessary.
Going commando is not an option. Or is it?
Any ideas? Options?
I made myself some boxer-style briefs. I used elastic but one could easily use buttons. They work great and feel so much better than elastic running across my tender parts.
Eric Hammond wrote:Depending on what handpump you have, you might just need a hose connected to it and while your pumping it out, you yourself are pumping it up the hill and far away. My handpump would easily do that
Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Seems like it would be a whole lot of weight to be pushing by the time it finally got to the trailer though. I'll look into it. Thanks for the thought.
a good 100 USD solar powered well pump is what you want before you spend for the wrong solution and end up with a bottomless barrel.
How much it cost you to refurbish the bath tub?
You can get rainwater 65 gal barrels cheap for 19.99 USD in the builder's depot when they are in the promo week.
In my humble opinion: For me it looks you save at the wrong end.
Hi. I have not seen rain barrels for 19.99 but I will look. I won't refurbish the bath tub, just plug it or attach a hose to the outlet. The tub will be a temporary receptacle to catch the water when it comes out of the first hand pump. I will look into a solar pump. It wasn't really feasible for the permanent well pump. There is a whole lot of thievery in my area and it would surely disappear almost immediately. Unfortunately, because that would have been my first choice. Thank you
John C Daley wrote:What volume of water are you trying to move?
The 25' elevation may be the problem.
A solar pump can push it 25 feet.
I need enough water to live on. I can get a local gym membership and take showers on my way to work every morning so just other uses. I have 2 RV tanks. One is 15 gallons and the one installed in the trailer I haven't found yet so I'm not sure how big it is.
Liv Smith wrote:Maybe not what you’re looking for, but there are 12v water pumps available.
Before we had water at the barn, I used one of those successfully to fill big tanks from which I’d then fill water throughs for cows and other critters. They’re slow, but it sure beats carrying water several hundred feet with buckets. I’ve done that…
Ours was fed from a battery that we would charge at the house periodically. I assume one could make a small solar system if electricity is not available at all.
I hadn't thought about battery operated. I wonder if something could be rigged up to attach to my car battery. I would think it wouldn't need to be used more than a few times a week, unless I get a bigger tank, which would mean less often. Yes, I've moved a lot of water in buckets too. At my age it's time to start working smarter, rather than harder.