paul wheaton wrote:For those of you that upped your backer level but fell into the pit of kickstarter not properly recording your wishes ...
- you WILL get your candy
- you will NOT get the proper kickstarter survey (kickstarter does not give us a way to fix this)
o this will make things extra challenging for some things like getting your name into the book
- please help us double check to make sure that we processed the "odd ducks" at the proper time
We will do our best, but this is a powerful breeding ground for human error. Further, we offer the prices as super cheap because we will be processing people en masse. Now you know why during the kickstarter we pushed shawns video so hard. :)
At the very worst, some people won't get their name in where they want it. But everything else, we can fix.
I'm one of the people who upped their backing from 60 to 100$. Kickstarter still lists me at 60, but that's not a big problem (I think?). What's bugging me is I can't get access to the Cleaning book and am very much interested in it. Could you look into this, please?
Also, I am not sure whether anything else is missing. Where is a good place to check what I ought to have by now?
Thank you so much for awesomeness all around!
We only have small predators, the largest being foxes. The area the goats were in is out of reach of stray dogs and is fenced ca 1.5m high. Since there are plenty of rabbits around, a fox wouldn't reasonably attack a 6 month old kid: at two months they're already big enough not to be on a fox's menu.
The kid was castrated at 2 months of age in July by a qualified vet (operation).
No change in diet that I'm aware of. The kid was in perfect health, cheerful as always, no symptoms of any kind that I could detect.
The blood coming from the tear duct leads me to believe the death was due to head injury. There are no predator marks on either the kid or the mother, in fact no marks of any kind.
Neck, head, eyes, all intact. No blood in the mouth or nose.
I asked the vet about possible causes of death. Based on my description she also excluded death by predator or disease. She said she had had a billy goat dying from a skull fracture following excessive head-butting with another billy goat.
My son and I buried the carcass together this morning, a painful but necessary ritual to allow him to say his goodbyes.
Necropsy is out I'm afraid.
I found our castrated 6 month old kid dead near his stable this morning. I could find no injuries on his body, bite marks or anything. A little blood was seeping from his eye (where the tear duct is located), but his eye was intact. No other traces of blood. He has always been in good health and was happily following and prancing around his mother all day every day. Just the two of them (The billy goat is stationed somewhere else because he is too rough with either of them).
Now I'm a little freaked because I don't really know what killed it, and we are all obviously very sorry over the loss of the kid (he was as sweet as they get).
There are no predator signs, no heavy objects lying around that he might have gotten on his head. He and his mum never headbutted.
We DID have a big storm last night. Is it possible he fractured his own skull against a wall because he panicked or something?
Has anyone ever had an experience even remotely like this?
I was/am totally new to kidding... Our dwarf nanny gave birth this afternoon to a cute little kid baptised Brownie by my sons. I was quite worried during the whole process and had the vet on the phone three times to make sure everything was proceeding as normal. Everything went well. They're secure for the night, and I can relax now...
I do have a question for the community, though: I'm wondering if it's possible there's a second bun in the oven. How can I be sure? There were no more contractions after the delivery of the afterbirth, but her belly still seems fairly big. How far can two kids be apart?
Matt Powers has written two books called the permaculture student 1 and 2. Book 1 targets primary school audience. 2 would be more for middle school students. Imho worth checking out...
edited: sorry, thought middle school was 14+. For kids of 12 book one would do splendidly...
I finally realized the copyright issue is not sitting right with me. I thought about it some more... I first assumed the wiki hosted would operate under a GNU or at least GNU-like license. I thought that is how wikis operated generally. I see I was wrong about this. Fair enough, I can acknowledge my assumption being off and I should have checked and all that.
But even so, now that I am wiser, I'm still not ok with putting up my pictures and even text on the wiki if another person then gets the copyright of them (What copyright? Could you specify? Can't I use my own pictures or the text I contributed anywhere else?) and there is no kind of GNU-like guarantee in place prohibiting commercial reuse and stuff...
Thx for asking! The goat went back to its previous owner for the time being: She wasn't used to being alone, so cried incessantly. We got her a mate, and then she was alright, but then they both pretty much immediately discovered a kind of circus jump which made their chain ring fly off the pickets. And after a whole morning of trying all kinds of things to keep the ring down, weighing it down and lots of goat chasing (once pulling one of them off the kitchen table where she was gorging herself on dried garbanzo beans ) I sent them both back.
Meantime I have had the pickets modified by a welder, so the ring still turns freely (they can't strangle themselves) but it can not come off any more. I'll have them back end of the month probably, after my permaculture course.
Yeah, raised beds, I'm going to try one. Not much pine around here (waterlogging in winter probably). Some conifers.
How is your garden doing? I'm going to have a good pumpkin and Jerusalem artichoke harvest, but not much else!
Hugh H. wrote: If you directly quote anyone from these forums or anywhere else, you need to attribute it to them. That is just for direct quotes (in quotation marks) only. If you are paraphrasing their idea then it is a good idea to add a reference to the forum post or webpage. I've added these points to an 'Editing Guidelines' page on the wiki. We can add any other contribution guidelines here.
Hugh, I understand where you are coming from, but I'm not convinced about either the need or the usefulness of this, since quotes are all from the forum, that is a public space. You don't even need an account to view the forum pages, so who knows what we write here will and will not be used for? There is certainly no copyright issue, and by contrast, people writing on the wiki pages directly are NOT identified as authors, so there is a consistency issue if you start doing that. (Of course it is different if we start quoting other sources, then we do need the references!)
A second point against referencing forum talk is I think it is not advisable to "over organize" stuff, in order to keep contributing as easy for people as possible. If the administrative overhead is too big, and people need to first wade through pages of guidelines you are very quickly going to end up with just one or two extremely dedicated people, and everyone else (including myself) will have given up because it becomes too time consuming to put anything up at the wiki... Most people are willing to devote a couple of minutes to the wiki to help it along, not necessarily more... Since we would very much like to keep the wiki growing, taking advantage of the wealth of knowledge of all the people on the forum, I think we should do everything in our power to keep things simple...
Oh, and I couldn't find the wishlist you talk of, Hugh, from which page do you link to it? I moved the editing guidelines to the Survival Section And I added some gruesome slug pictures ( https://permies.com/Permaculture/Slugs )
auntythelma wrote: If your comfrey has purple/pink/lavender flowers and the leaves have ribs that continue down the stalk of the plants stem, This is a safe edible and medicinal plant. The comfrey that grows wild and has yellow flowers is a more potent version.
But i have read many herbalists accounts confirming that comfrey is safe for regular use. The tea is so delicious and sweet...like sweet cucumber.
Yes, mine has purple or pink flowers, so I'm safe... How do you make the tea? Just steep the leaves in boiling water? Dried leaves?
Thx pignut for the feedback. You think the trees will be able to stand the manure come transplanting time (november)? In fact you're saying I could have done this without manure? It's true brambles are a huge success here , and nettles in some patches, another nitrogen lover... The donkey solution would be good if I had donkeys: my terrain is really too small to keep them. And I don't want to buy in extra straw and hay... I might try a couple of pygmy goats...
Brenda Groth wrote: my garden has a fence around it and some arbors, I'm growing 8 varieties of raspberry, blackberries, morning glories (annual), melons, squash, cucumbers, kiwi, grapes, cl roses, clematis, currants etc ON the fence and using it to provide a windbreak to my garden..there are some areas that the fence protects things like wild plums, hazelnuts, blueberries, juneberries, serviceberries, gooseberries, honeyberries, etc.
I think I can grow most of these once there is some shade from the trees. Any berries and currants in full sun die here, except the darn brambles, of course . The annual cucurbits should do well even without protection. Heat loving climbing beans also... I think pignut is right and I should make trees and shrubs the first priority...
saskia wrote: OK, I got it. I will look into it and report back here when I'm done...
Re: categories The automatic listing of related pages in the footer has not been activated for this wiki, so it's not going to be as easy as we thought.
I set up a page "categories" that can be linked to from the sidebar ( https://permies.com/Permaculture/Categories ). Maybe we need some brainstorming on it because as it is I don't find it much clearer than what we had before (Neither is it easier to maintain, with every page needing the correct tags inserted manually.)
That might change if Paul could be persuaded to change the footer setting. But I'm already bugging him for several other things, so I'm not taking this one on. Feel free though...
I'm also experiencing continuous time-outs when I try to save pages, so I'm calling it a day for me and will try again when the permaculture gods look more favorably upon my connection to this site...
Hugh H. wrote: Just to clarify on categories, I think permaguy is suggesting using a type of tag which then connects pages into groups that are all relating to the same type of thing. For example we might make a category Plants, and all plants go in that category. This allows all the plant pages to be automatically listed without manually creating a separate page of links to each plant.
OK, I got it. I will look into it and report back here when I'm done...
gani et se wrote: I could do some searching the forums for juicy quotes about things that catch my interest since I'm a newbie without a lot of my own stuff to write about yet, if that seems appropriate. Which leads me to a question. If I am searching the forum for quotes, should I link to the forum post from which I quote? Can I figure that someone posting info on the forum would be okay with it going on the wiki? Do I need to get permission from each person being quoted? Let me know what you think. Maybe Paul has an opinion on my plan? Gani
Gani, that would be very helpful indeed, if you find a subject that interests you and then condense what you read on the forum into the wikipages!
Given the fact that the forum is open to the public (anyone can read), I don't think it is necessary to quote people. I do think we need to ask people permission to reuse their photos on the wiki, no? Or would quoting their forum name ("by Johnny Appleseed"), thereby identifying them as the source of the picture be sufficient?
you should try to add categories to the wiki (e.g. poultry, gardening, etc), with some sub categories, it should be better to handle and maintain than the current system of manual linking
You mean in the sidebar permaguy?
The disadvantage of the sidebar is that it only takes titles of 20 characters wide, and no subcategories are possible (at least I haven't found a way to add subs)
I think you're right but we're still feeling our way around the structure the wiki needs to take.
I think the best way about this is to add the desired subjects and subcategories to the main page in the reference section ( https://permies.com/Permaculture/Reference-Section ) for the time being. There are already quite a few up there... But WITHOUT necessarily creating new pages for each of them, just play around with the text/titles until we have something pleasing.
I say that because it is way too easy to create a bunch of pages (every link title starting and ending with double square brackets will create a new page if that exact name doesn't exist yet, regardless of whether you meant to link to an existing page but made a typo or if you really wanted to create a new page) but we have no one except Paul Wheaton to clean up the mess we make. I asked Paul for a superuser account so we can clean up surplus pages ourselves, but no reply so far. He might understandably not be keen on doling out delete rights on his site. I don't think Paul will be overjoyed either with hundreds of dead blank pages, or requests to clean up for our mistakes or changes of plan. (Note that for instance "Chicken Food" in a hyperlink title is different from "Chicken-Food" and two pages will (actually have) been created. So we all need to take extreme care when creating pages that we get the title perfect the first time AND ALSO when linking to them from other pages to make sure we use the EXACT existing page names.) So I'd rather we did it right the first time around, or as right as we can manage, anyway. That means think about the structure we want, edit it on the main page as just text, discuss here if necessary, and only THEN create the pages on the wiki...
I'm using the (abundant) comfrey in my garden as a compost activator, and I know it's excellent for setting bones and healing wounds also (salve from it), but I was wondering if there might be recipes for it. Or possibly other uses I don't know of... I sampled a leaf raw, but it's really very slimy inside, so I'm not sure if it would work well in salads. Green smoothies? Pancakes? Anybody ever try anything that turned out tasty?
auntythelma wrote: I consider my garden organic, and I tolerate a certain amount of bugs on my food. But I find myself a bit ashamed of my veggies. when I give people any of my produce I naturally give them the visually perfect specimens and keep the wierdos for myself. wierdos being bug chewed, lopsided or over grown etc.
I think it's natural to want to give good looking and pleasing presents, and I do the same.
I'm like you auntie. Actually I might be way worse, I'm even too lazy to remove pests that I could easily remove. Right now the caterpillars are decimating my broccoli and I'm letting them, because I'm thinking they're being destroyed everywhere else, at least my garden is a safe haven for them. Doesn't make a brilliant crop for cabbages and lettuces though...
I was watching Back to Eden yesterday ( http://www.backtoedenfilm.com/ ) and was totally amazed: This guy is using woodchips and a rake in his garden and nothing else. He easily controls the weeds in the woodchips with his rake, but there are few, and he doesn't get pests. He says because the decomposing woodchips keep so much moisture, his plants are so gorged on water the bugs - who are after fiber - don't like them much (too juicy!!!). It was a revelation to me that a plant having bugs is like a person having a disease: health is sub-optimal, that's why the bugs come, NOT the other way around. It's worth watching, to say the least...
And by the way, this communication about the wiki page is not just from me to you. It should (and does) function two ways: if you have requests, errors to point out, things to address, questions, complaints, etc., you can post them on here as well to get feedback on them from me and others (and please note I'm not the "boss" of the wiki, I just enjoy structuring stuff )
TheDirtSurgeon wrote: If no one else pops up to write about earthworks and construction, I could be bribed with cookies.
Virtual cookies? Pictures of cookies? Or will you pop over to my farm to get the real stuff???
John Polk wrote:
To many of us, the Wiki format is rather strange. Is there a "sandbox" to play in? My only experience on Wikipedia was correcting a blatant error, and I did that through the 'comments' section (with cites to collaborate my info).
Well, that makes you more of an expert than me : I've been doing all my (numerous) edits on the actual wikipages . There is a sandbox for PmWiki, the environment our permieswiki runs on at http://www.pmwiki.org/wiki/Main/WikiSandbox
But I find that just typing in the text goes rather nicely. You need to force linebreaks with an extra blank line or use a double backslash every time you want a linebreak, but apart from that, it's not so different from typing here...
Wikipedia has become very formalized in recent years, it's a far cry off the "everyone can contribute" original idea, with lots of procedures to read and to stick to. It put me off from contributing.
Maybe we'll get to that point one day, but hopefully not soon. I would like to keep this wiki growing organically and informally, starting from the premise that the people contributing are well intentioned and talk about what they know.
There's room to post in the comments section at the bottom of every page for people who don't feel comfortable editing the text directly or if you want to discuss items that have no immediate place ON the page.
Rob S. aka Blitz wrote: I resisted at first as well because of time and to be honest, I feel very inadequate about information since IM new to this. Secondly, at first I thought it was pointless because I have alot of this information on my HD already and most of it is scattetred throughout this site and the internet. BUT, then I remembered that not everyone has what I have, and the more I thought about it, this website is by far the best permaculture resource out there. I think what makes it so valuable are the real life examples of what permaculture can do, apart from those examples, information is just fiction to me. So I value the one stop shop for experience in the wiki since im a visual learner, rather than what are the basics of permaculture. my 2 cents
Totally agree! Although there is a lot of information out there, even for free, it is scattered, and that means it's a pain to find everything you need in one spot. This forum probably has more info on it than any other permaculture site, but it is still hard to find things back because of the format. That's where the reference wiki would come in...
Rob S. aka Blitz wrote: I am interested. Im slowly trying to do pictures right now. Since Im still learning myself I can't write too much factual info. Thanks for leading this!
Hiya Rob! Thanks for joining our (at the moment) very small club . Does it look to you like people are having resistance to putting their name on a list? Does to me. There were a lot more people joining in the discussion when it was non committal. Or maybe I didn't make my presentation sexy enough?
OK, I'll rephrase, for the people on the fence: YOU decide at all times how much time you want to put in this. If it is 5 minutes in two years or even zero minutes, that's fine! No one's going to twist your arm, All you're saying by replying is - I'm interested in the project - I want to keep up to date with what is going on in the project
[s]Put differently: two people, however enthusiastic, are not going to build a whole permaculture database by themselves, so if this resource is going to be of any use to us, it will need to be a group effort.[/s] Strike that out you dumb-ass, you're certain to scare them away like this. Uh? OK...
Definitely not sexy I guess I suck at that. Sam, you marketing guru, where are you when we need you???
We recently got the idea of developing a permaculture wiki out of this forum (see link in my signature). We have set up a basic structure for a permaculture reference (and nothing yet for an also planned online PDC ) and are now looking for people interested in helping out with the project. The involvement can be as large or as small as you like.
- We are looking for people who can help in concisely defining the permaculture elements (Each page has a WHAT section. For an elaborate example, see the Ducks page ( https://permies.com/Permaculture/Ducks ), for a more basic example, see the chickens page ( https://permies.com/Permaculture/Chickens )) - We are always looking for examples of new and creative ways in which the principles are applied: explain what you are doing in a few words, with or without illustrations - We are mostly looking for people wanting to upload their pictures to the new pages to illustrate the text (these go into the EXAMPLES and CREATIVE COMBINATION sections), with a small accompanying text (for an example, see the Chicken Shelter Needs page under EXAMPLES ( https://permies.com/Permaculture/Chicken-Shelter )). - We are looking for knowledgeable enthusiasts about any given subject who will supply comments or improvements to the existing text (there is normally a COMMENTS section under every page, to which you can add by clicking the EDIT button) - We are looking for people who have an interest in cooperatively developing the PDC. The emphasis would be on teaching permaculture thinking, using the Reference section of the website as uh, reference
My proposal is as follows: - Anyone interested in collaborating replies at least once to this thread, with what you would like to do or just to express interest. The important thing is to reply so that you get notified of follow ups on the thread. - We will post here any new page we put up where we could use input on, with a link so you can check it out easily. If the page is not your cup of tea, you do nothing. If it is you check it out and modify or upload according to your fancy (and good sense ) - We will also post here any particular piece of info that we are missing (text or pic or input of various kind), to which the peope who hold this info could reply (and hopefully will! )
The username needed to edit the wiki is: permaculture The password is: hugelkultur There is a page template available for those who want to create new pages (but go easy on that one, at least try to stay within the existing structure, so all info is logically linked and accessible with a few clicks). There is also an instruction page on how to upload images for those unfamiliar with the process.
Thank you all for reading this, and I hope to see many names appear...
Wiki status: We are currently populating our first subsection Birds, more particularly the Ducks and Chickens pages have some minimal info on it. Ducks needs more pictures. If anyone is partial to other birds, the pages for turkeys, quail, geese and guinea fowl also exist but have nothing in them at the moment...
Suggestion: For those who - like me - want to promote the idea of the wiki forum wide, consider changing your signature into something similar to mine so that with every reply you make, you spread the word...
permaguy wrote: is there a way to stop jerusalem artichoke that is easier than for the brambles ? (a line of confrey for example ?)
I haven't found any plant that can stop them yet. But you can pull them each time an unwanted shoot comes up until the tuber is exhausted (unless if you think digging them up is better ). The young leaves and stems are great composting material.
Paleo Gardener wrote: If you bake pumpkin seeds you can just eat them without husking.
Yeah I can confirm this, at least for Butternut Waltham, which I grew last year. It had loads of really small seeds. I roasted them with a little olive oil and a salt-herbal mix, you've never tasted such a delicacy!
hvala wrote: maybe better idea is to replant garlic from biggest tubers, like this you will not go to negative sellection.....
Nah, if they're anything like shallots planting big bulbs will give lots of small ones the next year and planting small ones will give a few fat bulbs (or one in the case of Cholcombe one ), so it will alternate. Or if you want both big and small plant a little of both...
Well, this is interesting to say the least! I've got brambles all over the place and they grow in the most inaccessible places (of course) where I can't easily keep them under control. I also have a very tasty & productive Jerusalem artichoke that grows to 3 meters high and has a tendency to spread (just a little ). Never thought of putting them together, but it's a great idea. I'll give it a shot. Don't mind having the chokes spread a bit more. Edible tubers as from november, great compost material, beautiful flowers through september, and best of all NO flipping THORNS!!! Thanks for the tip!
One width high of chickenwire? In Europe that translate as about 90 cm (3 feet). I hope you have a roof on your enclosure, because adult rabbits can sure jump that high (and so can foxes)!
I'm hesitating giving you advise about the climbers: You're looking for something that the rabbits would leave alone but that would not poison them? Or are you looking to provide them with extra munchies, planting on the outside and letting them nibble off the excess? I think they might quickly kill off most vegetation. Is your fence pretty sturdy? Can it take some weight?
Rob S. aka Blitz wrote: OK I added some things to the shelter portion. Is that what you are a looking for, formatting ok?
Yeah, beautiful! Thanks! I did a minor text edit (please verify info is still correct?) and added some double backslashes at the end of your lines to force linebreaks (the editor doesn't automatically add them) because the caption and rest of the text all appeared as one paragraph.
I'm having an issue with unviewable pictures: can't see attached/uploaded images apparently, nor save them, so I can't do much at the moment with the jpgs. Sorry about that, permaguy. If they were uploaded to the wiki I would be able to have a look at them though, there everything seems to work as it should for me... I took it up with Paul, hope a solution is forthcoming, because this problem is starting to impact me severely. Strange thing is, I could view Burra Maluca's purple chicken photo on the wikipage:Chickens thread without issues, maybe because it's an inline image, not an attached one?
Kathleen, when you have time, of course. With the possible exception of Paul Wheaton, this forum and the wiki are not life and death priorities for any of us, so it will take you, me, others, the time it takes, and that's fine... No stress, there's enough of it around already
I had this problem since the beginning and thought it was a bug, but now it's starting to impact my functionality as wiki facilitator and I no longer think it's a bug...
I'm using Vista prof. with SP1. I use Chrome and Firefox 3.6.21 with identical symptoms. Some pictures display correctly, I think these are inline pictures but I'm not sure. All others (I assume attached or uploaded pictures), they're typically under the post body, will show up initially as an empty frame but when the page has loaded only as a paperclip symbol with the filename as a hyperlink. Clicking on the link causes a error: "the connection to the server was reset". I can't save the images for offline viewing either because the extension is a php file...
I'm quite at a loss what the cause of this might be. I disabled my firewall as a test and restarted Firefox, but there's no change. Since I can see that the images have been viewed a number of times the problem must be on my end, but am I alone having this problem?
paul wheaton wrote: So .... I'm paying the bills ... I've worked for years and years on this joint ... it's really mine .... there are infinite flavors of community that can be formed here, but there are just a few flavors I am comfortable with. ... I guess I am saying all of this because I think it would be wise for me to ban five or six more people. To help set the pace for what I think is healthy. I want to say this out loud so that those five or six first have the opportunity to consider my position and decide if they can be comfortable with my communication style.
I think some of the communication styles I have allowed have scared off what would otherwise be people that would be a good fit for my style. That was my mistake.
I think there is nothing wrong with the owner of a site to decide on policy and enforce it. You would do the same in your home. Even if you have invited people over, if they start trashing your china or being rude to other guests, you would (normally ) very quickly put an end to that and show them the door...
But having said that, I am also in favor of lots of good communication, before, during and after. But when it fails, the other party can not or will not hear your message, I think it is only right to "invite" them to go find a favorite spot elsewhere...