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nancy sutton
Post     Subject: Re: Education in this matter

What about Twin Oaks?  and The Farm?  I think they've been around since the 70's.  However they make decisions, they are sizeable and have survived.

Re: decision making, Thom Hartmann ('Threshhold') has pointed out science's discovery that herd/flock etc. species (deer, birds, insects) choose a direction when 51% of the group has indicated their preference.  There is the alpha male for reproductive purposes, but the many day-to-day decisions seem to be made via inherent 'democracy'.  And there is 'Wisdom of the Crowd' by Suroweki (sp?)..... but maybe this only 'works' with groups much larger than a typical IC house. 
Jurassic Hatfield
Post     Subject: Re: Education in this matter

H Ludi Tyler wrote:
My very heartfelt recommendation is to read Diana Leafe Christian's book "Creating a Life Together."




cheers
Tyler Ludens
Post     Subject: Re: Education in this matter

South Carolina wrote:

In my opinion human beings are no different than any other animal – there are no equals.  If we are to be different than any other animal then we would overcome this inequality but if you look at any relationship, of any kind, there is a hierarchy of power; leaders and followers.



My opinion, and experience, is exactly opposite!   

If one is raised up in a hierarchical society, one probably expects "human nature" to be hierarchical.  Anthropology shows this isn't necessarily the case.

More about humans and hierarchy:  http://theanarchistlibrary.org/HTML/Jason_Godesky__Thirty_Theses.html#toc1
Tyler Ludens
Post     Subject: Re: Education in this matter

My very heartfelt recommendation is to read Diana Leafe Christian's book "Creating a Life Together."

Jeanine Gurley Jacildone
Post     Subject: Re: Education in this matter

This is just my humble opinion:

At 29 you probably want to be in a happy live and let live - let's work together type community; recipe for failure.

Even Paul's happy experience with the Permaculture course would have headed into conflict eventually.   Two weeks is still into the ‘infatuation’ stage of the relationship.  The real test comes later when conflict arises, how individuals deal with conflict and then the latter stage when you discover whether or not you can accept each others faults and shortcomings.

Here at Permies, Paul is the dictator; those that stay here like him as the dictator so it works for those who stay.  My husband is the superintendant at his job and it is really no different; someone has to be the bad guy.  I'm not good at being a bad guy so I have elected to stay in a position where I work alone and do not have to supervise anyone.

In my opinion human beings are no different than any other animal – there are no equals.  If we are to be different than any other animal then we would overcome this inequality but if you look at any relationship, of any kind, there is a hierarchy of power; leaders and followers.

If you are to be successful my recommendation would be to accept that you are the leader, the dictator, the owner, right from the start.  If the peeps want to come along fine, if not, then you are on your own.  No one wants to be the bad guy but someone has to be leader of the pack, to keep order, direction and purpose on track.

If I were interested in starting such a community I would study the Amish structure of power, leadership, and rules for being part of the community.  They have been doing this for a fairly long time - some successes and some failures but all in all they do alright.
Jurassic Hatfield
Post     Subject: Re: Education in this matter

I thoroughly enjoyed podcast 37 as i do with all of paul's podcasts.  podcast 37 gave me the strength to come forward and start asking questions. i'm not sure what parts i should listen to again in regards to what direction to take.
Jeanine Gurley Jacildone
Post     Subject: Re: Education in this matter

Listen to Paul's podcast 37.  That should be your first stop. 

Every single communal endeavor I have ever been involved with turns out the same way as what he experienced in the podcast.  No exceptions.
Jurassic Hatfield
Post     Subject: Education in this matter

be fantastic if someone could point me in the right direction.  it is my dream to build an intentional community some way or another and i was wondering if studying property economics would help achieve greater dreams or should i continue down the permaculture path saving for my own land and developing it over a lifetime.  reading books and visiting places is great short term but i feel i need to build business if it's going to be sustainable.  i'm 29 and booked into a permaculture internship at PRI.
I'm not rushing into anything, be great to hear all the options.