Scott Weinberg

Peter van den Berg wrote:

Leonardo Bevilacqua wrote:Where can I find the formulas to calculate the dimensions of the sidewinder core?

At the moment, there isn't a central place where the figures of a Shorty core are summed up, yet. By the way, the numbers for the sidewinder version aren't any different. I don't know which sketchup file you used for upscaling, so I am unable to check whether it is correct.

But here are the numbers for the calculation, all mentioned numbers are internal.
Start with the base figure, written down as B. This is 72.34% of the diameter of the chimney pipe, equal to system size.
Width of the firebox: 2B.
Height of the firebox: 3B.
Depth of the firebox: 4B, upto 5B.
Height of the port: 2.1B.
Width of the port: 0.5B.
Position of the port in a sidewinder: centered in the port 1B from the rear wall, left or right.
Width and depth of the riser: 2B.
Heigth of the riser: 5B upto 5.5B.
Liner in the bottom half of the riser: left and right equal, seen from the port, double that thickness at the port side.
Height of the liner: 2.4B, also crossing over the port.
Resulting floor of the riser: square, each side equal to system size.
Exhaust opening of the riser: in the same wall as the port, width 2B, total square mm of the opening 100% of the chimney pipe's csa.
Heigth of the opening: follows from the calculation of the sentence above.
Piece of wall above the exhaust opening: same height as the opening.

 See https://batchrocket.eu/ontwerpen#shorty

Peter I have applied and cross checked to some of the sketch up drawings, and I think I have this correct or at least pretty close.
could you verify if I have the port depth  correct for the system size, I will do this in MM's so you don't have to convert.

130mm  size     58mm port depth
150mm             67mm
180mm             80.5mm
200mm             89mm

thank you, if these are wrong, I will reapply some math.
thank you.

Nina Surya wrote:Hi Scott, I believe the photo is an example of a traditional Japanese heating system called Irōri.

Alex, as R Scott has said, if you insulate base and sides of the rocket mass heater under the floor, it should be an option.

I think I can imagine how you want the design to look like, but could you perhaps provide us with a drawing?

The riser and the bell would be higher that the floor level.

You would have your ash clean outs under the floor... or maybe you could make little hidden lids that you can open in the floor, and an ash clean-out access from above?

I'm just musing here, based on an imaginary image of your project...but if you can dream it, you can do it!

Actually I was just wondering if this Irori thing had a flue that I was not seeing?
And I also wondered what the term "pebbles" pertains to,  but perhaps you were meaning R Scott?  The rest of your musings I did not comment on, so maybe this was directed to some other Scott      Not sure.

take care all.

Scott Weinberg

No one has mentioned, but I just can't see a exit flue in the photo?  is there one in this photo?

Where does the term " pebbles" come from for this design?  

Just pondering!

thomas rubino wrote:Hi Ben,  how about some measurements of the space?
I assume the current stone work is hollow to allow the current chimney access to the roof.

Off the  top of my head)  There is no rule that the core and bench must be 90 degrees; perhaps placing the core at a sharper angle to the bench, leaving room for the doorway.

Ben, I am sure you will get some excellent input from the group, and with that added benefit, input from other sucessful units used in similar fashion. My first thought was when you mentioned a J tube, was don't rule out the possible iteration of the "shorty 6" Which has proved it can have a "side winder" right angle production of heat, that might blend super well to your corner situation.  Again, proven.

The only reason I bring this up, is the little extra work in building, can produce 1/2 the times to add wood, ( twice or better capacity )  at the same effciency. year after year, this will be even more appreciated.  A really big plus in my mind, is sitting in a chair, you can visually see ( if you have made a window in your door ) the status of the fire, NO getting up. It's just there for your observation. A wonderful plus.

These are just thoughts, or suggestions, I am sure you will get some good advice for your project!

Best of success
Scott

Robert Ray,

it has been about a week, but don't know if you started any part of the experiment, if so, any hot sand showing up? Enough to heat a room?

Scott

Von Xiong wrote:Scott I don’t even know what all that means!! Why do I need to know fire brick size? I’m gonna do a little research what you given me though, best if I can talk to someone. I will have a 110 feet of bench and in the ground. For the bell I want to make a chamber for ceramic. What’s left right rear exit? My main concern is how do I insulate the pipe under my ground in the greenhouse. Like what materials should I use and how much. Thanks Scott for your time.

Scott Weinberg wrote:

Von Xiong wrote:Hey all! In the next week or so I need to build a 8 inch batch box and I need the design template. Where can I get it?

Von, Looks like you started two different threads searching for the "answers", with Dragon Tech already giving you the dimension basic page.  Depending on the details, you would have much to do, before NEXT WEEK, depending on what you have available.  Along this line would be some questions to be answered only by you.

- fire brick size
- bell brick size, single layer bell or double, with bench or not
- extended batch chamber or not
-  standard batch with riser, sidewinder, or perhaps the latest, the shorty
- right, left or rear exit flue
-raised burning unit or base level
-size of glass on the door or no glass at all

This is not to discourage you, but rather helping you to formulate your game plan as these stoves are rather perminate in nature, and certainly can't be moved once done.  Best of success.

Von, I will touch just a few of the basic's on the "need to know and reasons for them"

1) You stated you wanted to know the layout of a 8" system, But you did not say where you intend to have your flue? So I am trying to figure out, how you interput any layout suggestions to match what you want to do? That was why I said that.  or rather bluntly, have you ever heard of anyone that has done what you intend to do?

2) If you don't know any of the answers, to the various options you can have for a 8" unit, I refer back to number 1, everything is so important, and depending on how you intend to experiment, None are super easy to simply change to something else, if things don't work for you. again, not to discourage you, but have you seen this work? ( what you intend to do ) and to jump in "next week "

3) 110 foot of bench?  Do you understand the basic's of ISA (internal surface area)  and how it relates to the overall operation of the unit? Lets say you really do attempt to have at minimum this 110 of bench, Do you understand what happens to the flow of the hot gases, when cooled beyond 140 degree's?

4) you mention you would like to talk to someone,  if you were to do that, and everyone was honest about it, I am thinking 1 to 3 items would all need to be discussed, thus the reason for my statements in the first place    Just trying to be helpful, in saying there is a lot more to what you want to do than simply understanding how to insulate what I presume is below the 110 foot bench.

5) lastly you mention, a chamber in the bell for ceramic?  Again, I mention, the need to understand  how the forces of hot gases make the system work, ( extraction of BTU's)  while a 8" system can be mighty powerful, if you defy phyics, you will likely come out on the short end.

So where would I start?    The very first thing I would do, is find someone that has even remotely done what you intend to do? There is no shame in replicating  a known system that works. VS having a system that simply will not function.   I hope someone steps forward that has such.

Best of success.

Von Xiong wrote:Hey all! In the next week or so I need to build a 8 inch batch box and I need the design template. Where can I get it?

Von, Looks like you started two different threads searching for the "answers", with Dragon Tech already giving you the dimension basic page.  Depending on the details, you would have much to do, before NEXT WEEK, depending on what you have available.  Along this line would be some questions to be answered only by you.

- fire brick size
- bell brick size, single layer bell or double, with bench or not
- extended batch chamber or not
-  standard batch with riser, sidewinder, or perhaps the latest, the shorty
- right, left or rear exit flue
-raised burning unit or base level
-size of glass on the door or no glass at all

This is not to discourage you, but rather helping you to formulate your game plan as these stoves are rather perminate in nature, and certainly can't be moved once done.  Best of success.

Robert Ray wrote:I don't have a RMH, but I do want to try a sand battery heater in the green house.
My test will be creating a sand battery 2ft x 2ft x 12 ft corrugated sides, to simulate the mass of a RMH Two courses of bricks at the base, the remainder will be filled with sand.
I picked up the bed materials today from Home Depot. Spent some time with Jeff Besos ordering heating elements from Amazon today.
My experiment will be placing the different elements within the central 4 feet of the bed.
The heating elements I ordered consist of a broiler element, a water heating element, an industrial immersion heater, a clothes dryer heating element, an eight inch stove top element, 6 PTC elements. So about 150.00 dollars worth of different heat sources that will be placed within that central 4 feet of the 12 ft bed. .

That is fantastic and sounds like you will have a excellent systematic way of testing the results.  I am sure there are many that will await your results. Please do keep us informed.  Best of success!

I know it has only been a few days, but did anyone decided to heat up their sandbank with excess wattage from there solar panels?

Is your typical panel around 350 Watt with a  typical excess planned for about 3 hours per day?   or about 1050 watts per panel if you have that much excess.

So this is about 3500 btu's gained per panel if you have that much excess or about 3/4 of a pound of wood for heat production per panel

 My engergy coop does not allow for us to install EXCESS production, unless we are off grid.   So we have NO excess that could be harvested per say.   But it sounded like a lot of you, had excess wattage, and figured it would be easyily accebbible,   So I was wondering how the sand was warming, and how warm the sand was getting.  

Would like to see the results.