Scott Weinberg

Gary Throop wrote:Oh, wow!  I just found this guy on YouTube!  A total inspiration!  He looks as old as I am and look what he did!  If he can do this, so can I!

Has anyone seen this?  Any comments?  Suggestions?  Criticisms?

Gary

While we will probably never know, I would like to know what the ISA is/was and size of stove itself  5"-6" or 7" and this would give a correlation number that we know today because of Peters work, that really works well.  Who knows, this build might have been spot on.  

On a side note, those kinds of bricks with the holes, can be or should be filled, as that is a mass gain of very little cost, and I am not talking about a sand filling, sand simply insulates far to much!

Over the years, I have changed my thoughts on good working stove and that is simply- "It should work for years and years with little maintenance"  Probably one of the biggest reasons that the simple bell, single or double has really took hold the world over.  It is a grand design, that is easy to predict, easy to build, and works well for years.

Annie Hope wrote:I am trying to make this set-up (in picture) that has the primary purpose of heating water.  We are wondering if the best thing to do is to wrap the fire box in rockwool batts and then a metal shell like the rocketovens on this website, (make the shell purely insulative) or to build up bricks around and top of it (so there is also some thermal mass - but would this reduce the burning efficiency).  We are 7km from the beach with very sandy soil. so cob is not an easy option.

I think general consensus for the great efficiency of RMH's is the fact that they burn so hot in the burn chamber and recover so much heat with the mass. Yet still letting enough warmth move through the flue as to NOT STALL.  So your question about reducing efficiency by the addition of mass would not be valid, but also, if I am reading this right, your wanting as much heat collected for your water as possible? A worthy goal.

Annie Hope wrote:
It is a purpose built water jacket we bought, and it has the chimney heat going through the middle of it, and water pumped in the bottom and back off the top.  We did a trial in an open 140L metal tub of water, with no attempt at insulation.   In the first 15min of burn it took the water from 9C to 19C, by the end of a 1 hour burn it was at 38C.   So I reckon it will give 5-10KWH of heated water with proper insulation of the water pipes and storage container.
This stove is not meant to be our main heating source.  It is meant to be the back-up after passive solar heating and thermal mass and solar water panels storing heat in water and pumping it under the floorboards are not adequate.

Tom as always had some really good thoughts and questions, and one of mine, that was not mentioned, would be the need to keep the flue gases from getting too cold (thus potentially causing a chimney stall or a lot of condensation)   but it sounds like you have been playing with it and getting along. But something to keep in mind, is the possibility if you perfect the collection of heat to much, you could rob the flue of necessary flow direction (up)  of flue gasses.  This is perhaps a minor thing, and easily monitored by a chimney prob.   I does sound like a great project!

Best of success.
Scott

Gary Throop wrote:

The problem is the rest of the house.  Everything in the literature here and elsewhere emphasizes that RMHs heat by radiation!  The only place I can put one of these things -- no matter how good looking it is -- is in the cellar!  We have a big woodstove there now, with insulated stainless steel chimney up past the roof peak.  It's an old stone cellar that I'm almost finished repointing to stop the leaks when it rains.  And then I plan to build a wall to hold insulation and reflective metal between the stove heat and the 50 degree stone work -- heat moves to the largest temp difference - I'd rather have the heat go up!

Gary you have tossed out several thoughts and that is good, and I will try to tackle a few as we have similarities
I have a very large house with NO options for stove on any of the main floors in any location, thus am in the basement as you describe and most likely for the same reasons. So with that in mind, exactly as you were thinking if you have this huge base within 20 foot of your stove that is 50 degrees (basement walls) that is a obstical for sure. and your insulated walls in my opinion would be the correct way to go. Thus the heat will work its way up?  But you are getting around this now by simply burning a lot of wood?

Gary Throop wrote:
But that still leaves the amount of wood!  We burn about 20 face cords a season; some I cut from the woodlot, but I had a quad bypass 5 years ago and most of those years we had to buy.  The price is now over $85/FC and this is getting ridiculous!  This year I'm cutting more of my own, but I'm clear about the effects of aging.  Who knows how long I'll be able to take down treea and cut them up.  So one of the solutions is to coppice black locust.  I've got the land to do that, and in 3-5 years, I should no long need to split wood; just wait for the locust to dry in 4-5" billets and burn that.  Less work and more heat from the wood!

So yes, it would appear that shear volume of wood burning has been in order?  While your going to get more heat for same volume of wood, that does not mean it is going to work better, just less wood used.  How you get the wood, I think in this case does not answer anything about what to do with the wood heat from your stove and how to handle it.

Gary Throop wrote:

What's stopping me is the lack of attention to how to move heat for PEOPLE WHO DO NOT LIVE IN OPEN SPACE LIVING ARRANGEMENTS.  Many warnings not to try to use a heat exchanger because the water with explode!  But that's not always true.  There must be ways to arrange the pipes where the heat will stay safely below 200 degrees...  Or how about an air exchanger ported into my existing ductwork?   I have to think of these things myself..

My hunch is that the reason most people aren't building these is because most people live in "conventional" housing and all the experts are telling us this won't work there.  

 A lot of things going on with some of your thinking, and in various locations on the forum, much has been discussed, but if you can indulge me a bit
1) Almost all warnings about steam explosions have to do with those that are wanting to build a closed system without all of the required pop off valves or system shutdown devices.  You wouldn't build a boiler/steam set up with out those safety things, yet almost always when the warning flyout if is for this very reason.
2) And yes you can certainly go bigger or more volume of water to where it simply can't get over 200 degrees, but ..............if we are trying to heat with the wood (the water) and have the water heat us?   you can see where I am going with this. Pretty soon our simple RMH is no longer simple and I have to give this forum credit,  ( The basic RMH is relatively simple )
3)  So you have ductwork? with a fan?  I have for years warmed my Bell and circulated the heat. Not ideal radiation methode but the basement does become a nice place to be.

Gary Throop wrote:
Wood is the cheapest dense form of heat there is.  I've been considering solar electric or parabolic trough collector with sand batteries (heat up to 500 degrees in the sand!) and taking hot water off the top of that (and building a Stirling engine to make electricity when the sun isn't shining...)  But wood around me is still easy to get or grow.  And the BTUs per cord are astonishing!  Most of that goes up the chimney now.  But to be able to keep that heat in the house and distribute it somehow to the upstairs rooms (drain back thermosyphon or pump to floor radiators or old radiators?  from a hot water tank in the cellar?) -- that would be like heaven!  And to have that with two loads a day!  

I am afraid that shotgun full of ideas makes it hard to advise on a direction you want to go.  But I will comment on a few
1) would love to know of anyone that has built a sand battery for a house that has even obtained 250 degrees let alone 500, if such temps were hit? HOW?
2) you started with a RMH idea, but are tossing in parabolic troughs, sand batteries, ( and by the way, if you truly thinking you can control water through a 500 degree sand battery, you will get a onslaught of WARNINGS from everyone and for good reason. This is not brick and mortor stuff.
3) well you can see where I am going with this,  are you wanting simple or complicated? Looks like you have all in mind.
4) Please don't get me wrong, I am not against any of your ideas, but feel it is all obtainable with enough money and skill through at it, that does not mean it is economical.

Gary Throop wrote:
So, a little more on the "back end" as Peter van den Berg calls it would help.  Is there anyone else out there trying to deal with this issue?

Thanks for any help or advice you can offer!
Gary

If you had to pick one thing, with your questions and statements, that you would most like advice on? what would it be?  Or simply my advice would be to choose simple or complex as there is not to much middle ground.   Best of success.

Not sure if this is the correct slot on the forum but we often get folks that drop in wondering how the garden grows-

And this year it grows about the best ever. but thought after reading how some make trellis, I would share just a few thoughts.

Almost all farms with any type of livestock have used or bent up livestock pannels, often discared. These make a great trelis support for all kinds of plants. I used to make 12" wide by 5-6' long and make a triangle, but now only two 16" wide with zip ties hold the top T-Pee style and base ends stuck in the ground. Work well.  

attached are a few photos, but have 96 pots all on concrete so even after 2" of rain, we can be out there. (even in the rain)  Another thing we are finding and much to our surprise, is if we take good care of the perineals we are having about 95% survival rates from year to year.  This year adding Raspberries to the mix, if this works, it will be great.  New plantings this year have doubled in size, so looking good.

Also fertilization also is extra nice as we can zero on any particular pot.

Any way FOOD for thought  

Hi everyone,

As I still think this is one of the best threads on this forum, I want to add one more resource to the conversation.

Every once in a while, a video comes along that provides an excellent overview of rocket mass heaters from all angles. The video below focuses on the general concept rather than the exact details of a single type. Since everyone has to start somewhere, understanding the ultimate goal is a great first step if you are considering building one.



Although this video is older, the information remains highly relevant. It lays out many important facts that can be difficult to explain in writing.

I highly recommend taking a look. The only major hurdle the video doesn't have an answer for is navigating local regulations and bureaucratic restrictions if you live in an area that strictly enforces them.

Best regards,

Scott Weinberg

--
Scott- Iron Design L.L.C.
Scott Weinberg

Oh-- to be a pig!

YOU can eat like a pig, act like a pig, and just be an overal PIG and everyone is happy!

Got to like that.

Scott

Antony Brush wrote:Hi folks, I've an apple tree in a pot.  For several years it's been leaning over more and more.  I've moved it to a lamp-post and strapped the trunk to it to keep the tree from falling, but most of the fruit is on the leaning-over part, and every year the weight of the fruit makes it worse.  

I can see that this year we're going to have a large crop of apples.  Can anything be done to fix the leaning?  If I chop off those branches, that's most of the fruit-bearing capacity, but on the course it's going, at some point it'll break under its own weight.

Any ideas?

if the Tree is in a pot, "leaning"  Why not prop the pot, until the tree is going UP?   Must be in a really big pot, if it bears fruit, but you did say you have moved it?

The wooden stake support thing works well and the large apple tree orchards have done that for years, so it is certainly a proved system.  often after the fruit has been picked the supports removed.

Apple trees can take a huge amount of pruning, so over time you could "direct" it the direction you want ( 2-3 years) but that goes back to the POT thing, tipping the pot can get you there right off.

cheers

Aeron, you wrote this,

"Multiple people recommending bypass, which sounds good, only i've never done any of this, and am trying to keep it simple. Adding a bypass sounds like a lot more work than adding a tee piece at the base of the flue. Plus won't i need a clean out down there anyway? "

When all the folks that have built RMH's of nearly all designs, suggest this "bypass" thing, there is a good reason.  All are wishing you to have good success with your build.   By the way, a T-piece at the base of the flue, in no way, would be considered a  easy work around bypass.  I am not saying this to be rude, but rather stating it is simply not the same thing.

I think your letting the "idea of doing it" causing thoughts of a great obstical.  It is not.

Let me simplify this, by saying, on the build And this includes all of the designs!  you have a exit for the exhaust flue.   No getting around that. And the flue will always go UP.  if you feel you can do this, your only a few steps away from adding one more exit hole and slide gate and having this connect to your rising flue pipe.   if you feel you can do the bottom one, you certainly can do the upper bypass one.  I don't know about others in exact detail but this bypass does not have to be huge, mine is only 4"  so about 1oo mm or so--  it is simply to get things going the right direction easily and for maybe 10 minutes.  When you need it, you need it. This won't be often if  your stove is warm, as things are primed to get things going in the right direction.

Don't let this little thing stop you from building.

While your at it, you mention that you "will need a clean out anyway"  Not sure what your envisioning here, but a simple inspection hole across from the exit hole for the flue will be fine.  If your in any kind of Grain harvest country, there are very simple auger tubing rings that work extremely well. Build in, plug and your good to go. Again a very minor thing in the sckeme of things.  If you wnat pictures of the clean out, just post a note, and I or someone will post a few phots of this.

cheers
Scott

Robert Ray wrote:The final heating elements (PTC) were delivered today. So I will begin this weekend on the assembly.

Just wondering, it has now been 3-4 months, and was wondering if any recorded experiments got completed? It sounded like you got all the recording items and possible heating elements lined up a few months back----  I know threads fizzal out over time, but this one did have a lot of interest a while ago,   with perhaps a few comments on both sides of the fence for this to work well.  

 Maybe not cut and dried, but it seems like there should be a "yes it worked" or
" no, it didn't work"  or a comment on where it is going from here.

Am interested.