Jolene Csakany

wild ginger, currents, gooseberry, pawpaw, fig, cornelian cherry, and hazelnut trees can grow under oaks- or so I have read as I have some big oaks on my property that I  hope to plant some guilds under someday.  Miners lettuce and regular lettuce and other leafy greens supposedly do ok.  From my research, oaks are not considered strongly allelopathic like black walnut, locust and some others.  There is often more a problem with getting things planted among the roots or competition for resources than allelopathic issues so it's about providing a deep layer of compost and fertilizing- or so I have read.   I haven't actually planted them all together and am pretty new to stuff so I don't know.  Some native plants even do better under oaks and have symbiotic relationships with them.    
Check out this previous thread for ideas from people who know more than me-
https://permies.com/t/11894/White-Oak-Guild-Emphasis-Edibles#:~:text=Jordan%20Lowery%20%2C%20pollinator,does%20well%20in%20open%20shade.
here's one from reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Permaculture/comments/16tmr4u/looking_for_tips_to_start_a_mini_food_forest/#:~:text=If%20the%20oak%20is%20leafed,is%20your%20mini%20food%20forest.

If you do want to raise goats, and have poison ivy growing under the oaks they love to eat poison ivy and it's very nutritious for them.  I was caring for a sick goat at a meat goat farm I worked at that the owners had given up on.  I brought her all the poison ivy I was clearing out for the farm and she made a full recovery and astonished the owners who had been raising goats for decades.  

What about forest botanicals like ginseng, blue cohosh and goldenseal and many others.  You would have to do some research to see if you have the right land for them.  Maybe they won't feed you the way a sun loving veggie garden will, but if you have an interest in herbal remedies and making tinctures and teas, you may be able to have some fun and satisfaction from this.   There are also some flowers that like partial shade, both native and possibly some expensive ones like tree peonies and hellebores.  

Matt McSpadden wrote:If you are not a vegetarian, what about animals? Deer and turkey would certainly love acorns and wouldn't take any work other than hunting :)

Acorn finished pigs are considered a delicacy. Chickens, goats, geese, cows, and sheep would all be fine in the shade.

As someone with a mostly partial shade property and not a vegetarian I want to say that other than the hunting, which can have inconsistent results and depends on whether the game is coming onto their land  and your marksman skill, this suggestion has way more upfront cost than growing most plants or fungus and involves a much bigger commitment and effects everyone around you.  
It's not just about being or not being a vegetarian!  Do you have the money for fencing and housing, are you zoned for animals, are you competent with their slaughter or is this a skill you would like to learn, are you competent with butchering animals or is this a skill you would like to learn or is there a facility for this near you?  

I garden for an older woman who has neighbors that got started with cows, horses and yaks that were not properly fenced, housed or fed and she had to deal with animals trashing her gardens, seeing dead animals in the road, seeing undernourished and sickly animals wandering around in search of food... and it just being a huge, chaotic and very sad mess for all the surrounding neighbors and most especially for the animals.  Her gardens that she built over many years and lovingly tended were trashed and it was hard for her to see the suffering and dead animals.  Animal control got involved and so those neighbors now have some barely adequate fencing so she just sees the poorly cared for animals at a distance now.

I've known of other people starting with animals and then not having it in them to kill what they raised and regretting the decision and eventually keeping a few for pets and sending everything  else to auction and feeling like they wasted a lot of money.  Someone I work with just sent their goats to the auction. After bringing in pictures and videos for weeks, full of delight about their new charges clearing the brush on their land- and I was kind of jealous because I love goats and want them so much, but over a few weeks the stories changed to what a pain in the ass the animals were and the goats kept escaping and trashed their gardens and got them in trouble with neighbors they previously had a good relationship with for many years so they were all packed up and sent to auction after 3 or 4 months.  

This is not a suggestion to just toss out there like starting mushrooms.  Even animals you intend to eat are a big commitment.  Will you be there daily for their care?  or have the money to set up something automated or pay someone to do it?  Do you go on vacations, visit family or get busy with work- can you find help and pay someone to help if you do this?  Can you protect them from predators?  I know someone who raises pheasants for hunting and he just lost over 70 birds to a weasel.  

I think I burned just under 3 cords last year, but it was sold to me in 2.5 face cord truck loads, and I think the last load was significantly less than the first two loads so I'm not really sure.  I have some wood left over from last year.  

That wood seemed to be a mixed lot as far as being dry, and it seems that when there is too much moisture you end up burning more wood because you need to have a hotter fire to get it burning.  
For this year, I have 3 cords- regular cords, and I think it will be more than I need.  I got two 2 cords in July and they are already stacked and one in August which is still in a pile.  

My home is just over 1100 square feet, and it has cathedral ceilings in the kitchen and living area.  It's on a concrete slab, and it's  just subfloors in the kitchen living area, and the master bedroom is just the concrete slab, no sub floor and it's not well insulated.  I have an old wood stove, it was my neighbor's mother's and the neighbor isn't young.  

The house gets too hot, and it's hard to keep the fire small enough to avoid this.  I have a thermometer on the stove pipe and my fires are generally in the "too low, creosote" zone.  Chimney cleaning is scheduled and I'm not having any fires this year till it's done because seeing that all last winter has me worried.  If I get the fire to where it's in the good zone, the house would be way too warm except for on the coldest days which are just a few degrees below 0 Fahrenheit.  So, I trickle the logs in one at a time during the day, and try to fill it with the largest logs at night before bed.

I have electric baseboard heat, but using that is expensive and they get so hot that I worry about fire when leaving the house and relying on them to keep the pipes from freezing.  I hope to buy a new wood stove in the next few years and would love a rocket mass heater, but am under the impression it is challenging to get these to comply with code in New York State.  

Using the wood stove seems like a huge pain in the ass, and I'm not even splitting my own wood.  Stacking it, and then constantly bringing it inside, and the wood is dirty and the fire makes everything dusty.  This year, I am using a little brush to brush off the dirt as I stack the wood which makes stacking take even longer.  
Keeping the fire going all night wasn't a big deal last year when I wasn't working, but I'm dreading it this year.  I got a lot better at making the fires last longer and learned to ask for larger pieces of wood which seem to burn slower/cooler and last longer.  The person I bought wood from last year once brought me smaller pieces she cut for someone else that cancelled their order instead of the length I requested and I think the last load was less than the previous loads, so feel she might have taken advantage of my ignorance.  If I fill the stove up with smaller pieces of wood it burns so hot the house is way too warm.  I'm looking forward to upgrading the heating system to something different someday.  

Looking for permaculture minded housemate in Nineveh, NY.  I am open to different sorts of trades, either some money and labor or possibly all labor if you're open to helping with more of what needs to be done here.  I can provide basic foods like the spices and potatoes, but I cannot typically provide meat and more expensive things yet.  I am also interested in living a more vegetarian lifestyle, however my neighbors hunt and I currently have a fair amount of wild boar in my freezer and am often gifted with venison that I'd love to share.  I would love to offer a free space to serious permaculture people here that includes free food and lodging someday, but I'm a minimum wage worker at the local deli, so I just can't afford that yet.  

Long or short term stays are welcome.  I think the ideal situation would be someone who wanted to come for a week or two to check the situation out, and then possibly stay longer if the situation seems right.  Maybe this place turns into a community someday.   For now, I have a small bedroom downstairs or a larger loft space to share.  The house is on the grid and has internet.  Currently, it has wifi, but if someone is sensitive to emf waves I am open to switching to ethernet cables.  I did this at my previous living situation and I've lived with housemates most of my adult life.  I can get old roommates to provide references if you want to hear more about me from an outside source.   I am a very quiet and introverted person, don't play much music or like bright lights on all the time.  Campers are also welcome, and if you are interested in coming next spring/summer please keep this posting in mind.

I haven't gotten too far with developing the property.  So far, there are chickens for eggs, bees, small vegetable garden, and I just planted some raspberry and blackberry bushes.  Next spring I plan to focus on mushrooms, both in logs and outdoor ground patches.  I would love to host someone experienced in permaculture or newly certified who would help me develop plans on how to move forward.  

The property is twenty beautiful acres with trails through the woods and a few small meadows. There are two small creeks and one has cascading waterfalls, although this one is typically a trickle, it's a beautiful place to relax.  During wet weather the trails are full of frogs, toads and red efts everywhere.  

The house needs work, it's only subfloors in living room/kitchen area and the kitchen is in need of remodeling- but everything works and there are no leaks.  I have a washer and dryer.  Anyone with home repair skills would be greatly appreciated, but nothing is falling apart and it's a comfortable space.  There is a front porch with a beautiful view of the neighbor's pond, where you can watch wildlife come and go.  
There is a post office, deli and bar/restaurant ten minutes away in Nineveh and more shops 15 minutes away in Afton, nearest grocery store is twenty minutes away in Sidney.  It's pretty easy to find a minimum wage job (which is $15 in NY)  at local businesses, things are always hiring around here.  There are state parks for hiking about 30 minutes away.

I heat with wood and keeping the stove going all day and night is quite the chore, so I am hoping for someone who is willing to help with this and it's a 24 hour job.  Last winter I wasn't working, so missing out on sleep wasn't a big deal.  I do have electric baseboard heat for emergencies should we both have to be away.  
I also have two dogs.  Both love humans, but one is dog aggressive and the other is extremely predatory and will attack porcupines.  I am hoping for someone who would be willing to watch the dogs occasionally so I can visit my family who live two hours away.  I would not be gone for more than a few days at a time.  Unfortunately, I can't host another dog or a cat because of my own, or I would be open to helping other animal lovers and hope to after these guys pass on but they're six and seven years old so it will be awhile.  They are calm dogs in the house and have lived in other shared housing situations without complaints.  If someone has a caged pet, goats or other outdoor animal companions they would be welcome and I'd be happy to assist with their care.  I love animals and have worked with goats before as a cheese maker and milker and am experienced with their care.

Please respond with a message (purple moosage)!  I do not always check my postings and will probably miss your response unless you send me a message.  

I've posted a fair amount here on permies.com, so if you want to know more about me you can read some of what I shared and see if you think we'd be a good fit.  I am not looking for a romantic partner, just like minded friends who love nature, animals, and want a life more in harmony with the earth.  I have a few business ideas that I plan to get started with and would love someone interested in partnering with me.
I have let my yoga and meditation practices slide in recent years, but would love a housemate with an interest in these things and I can teach yoga and pranayama practices.  I also used to cold plunge and do Wim Hof breathing and the creek sometimes has pools deep enough for sitting and soaking in.  I have spent time at a Tibetan Buddhist retreat center, but typically find myself more drawn to Zen and Vipassana practices.  I am trying to live a more vegetarian lifestyle, but as I said, meat is often gifted to me and I eat what's provided.  I would also like to raise more chickens for eggs, which means more roosters than needed so if someone is experienced in their slaughter (or wants to gain that experience) that would be appreciated.  Vegans are  welcome and I'd be very happy to share vegan meals, but I cannot offer a vegan kitchen or home free of the smell of meat cooking although I rarely buy meat.  

 That's all I can think to share, feel free to ask any questions.  

Thank you for the tips, especially the apps, I have been thinking about getting a plant ID app and wasn't sure which to go with.

While every plant may be 'introduced" at some level, as in it didn't evolve in that region thousands or millions of years ago, that doesn't make it invasive.  Even plants that were introduced recently from afar are not necessarily invasive, even ones that naturalize- if they don't displace native plants- and I think much of the unhappiness about invasives has to do with how they aggressively outcompete the plants we use and are challenging to remove, more so than a locavore attitude problem.  Certain plants take over and outcompete everything else, and some of these offer little value to wildlife or humans, which is why they can often outcompete the natives and leave us with substantially less biodiversity.  Some do offer a lot of value as food or medicine, but still may change wetlands into dry areas or have other consequences that change the ecosystem and mean an end to other plants and possibly animal species getting to be in that space too.  
Maybe we need to label the plants we have a problem with as nuisances instead of invasives? so it's clear it isn't just the fact that they come from somewhere else.  This isn't an antiimmigrant attitude, but practicality.  And I get that some natives can become nuisances, and what is invasive in one ecosystem won't become invasive in another.  I plant daffodils and other non-native flower species, but I try to check that they won't take over the space the way an invasive will.  

Dandelions may pop up all over the place, but they don't take over and I'm happy people introduced them many years ago and they are now a common plant that people and animals can eat.    I am ok with things that don't grow over my vegetable and flower gardens at a super fast pace like Creeping Charlie will and the effort to control it never ends and gardening is so much more effort because of it.  If I don't cut back the multiflora rose every year I will have no more meadows to walk through and that would be a bummer.    It's not the fact that they come from some place else that I want them gone, they make the land less useable for me and are a lot of effort to keep cutting back that I'd rather put toward other projects.  

I saw another person mentioned nettles, and I would advise against this if you plan to use this spot for a veggie garden for many years.  I did this in my last vegetable garden and regretted it.  The first two years it was great, and then by year three it was a small pain in the butt and by year four I was constantly pulling out nettles.  
Unless maybe you will really use a lot of them and use the roots.  I love nettles and comfrey, but will now keep them a good distance from any place that will be used for growing vegetables.  
If you have the budget for pre-started flowers you can also hit up the local nurseries and find lots of annual flowers to plant and probably rescue some sad tomato, pepper and eggplants.  Bring the peppers and eggplants in for the winter to live as houseplants and you will be set for an early crop next year.  

You can also plant flowers.  If you plant French Marigolds and calendula they will self seed and it's always nice to have them popping up in the vegetable garden to help with nematodes.  Or so I've read, I don't think I've ever had a problem with nematodes needing help, but it's an excuse to incorporate flowers.  I think you can plant cosmos, verbena, sunflowers and zinnias now too- if you don't mind some popping up as weeds in your veggie garden next year.  Deadhead, chop and drop or bring in cut flowers to keep this to a minimum.  It might also be a good time to plant lavender, oregano and rosemary- I think those seeds like getting started in the heat and then you can transplant them to other places next year, or let them intermingle with the veggies where there strong smells and flowers will bring benefits to the veggies.