knarf McCoy

Hey guys,

If you don't know me, I am brand new to gardening. I've dabbled in some non-organic container gardening over the past couple years (just a few plants), and I'm hoping to be able to transition to full permaculture soon.

Anyway, I read that our current agricultural system requires huge amounts of fertilizer, including phosphorus that is mined from far away. I also read that we might reach a 'peak phosphorus' situation sometime in the not-too-distant future, which could have a catastrophic effect on food supplies.

So, I was wondering, for those who have been practicing permaculture: do you find yourself reliant on external sources of potash? If so, is it significantly less than what is required by mainstream agriculture? Or does permaculture have the same exposure to this risk of peak phosphorus?

Edit: I mean Peak Phosphorus, not potash.

Hah. How lucky am I? I had this question pop into my head, and just a few moments later, a sorrel expert joins the board!

Yes! I think you are correct. I looked up Oxalis in Wikipedia, and it mentioned that some varieties are called 'wood sorrels'. I typed that into google image search, and got some photos that look exactly like the plant I'm remembering from my childhood:

http://imgur.com/NvdV7

I can't say for sure that this is the variety that I ate, but it looks pretty darn close. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one to eat these. For some reason, it cracks me up to think of how I was 4-years-old, probably just putting random things in my mouth, as kids tend to do, and I just happened to discover this little acidic herb. I probably haven't thought about this in over 20 years, and the memory of it just popped into my head. I wonder if I can grow it here in Utah (for nostalgic reasons).

Welcome to the forum!

When I was very young, maybe 4-5, I lived in a town just outside Boston, MA. I don't have a lot of memories from that age, but I just had one pop into my head. There was a plant that I often found growing in the yard, and in between flagstones, that I liked to pick and eat. I want to say that it was a type of clover, because of the leaves, but it wasn't the short kind with the pompom flowers and dark green leaves. It was taller, leggier, and more of a lime green. It seemed to grow in small bunches, rather than covering a patch. I can't remember if it had any flowers. All I remembered is that it had this really pleasantly powerful, tangy taste to it.

This memory is hilarious because I'm 100% certain that I was never told that this plant was safe to eat. I remember, now, that I used to eat plants when no one was looking.



I tried dandelion leaves, but I thought they were bitter and gross.

I'm 29 now, so I think I'm okay. 

Heya,

So, right now I want to grow some tomatoes, but I only have a tiny East-facing balcony which gets maybe 3-4 hours of sun per day. I have been able to grow tomatoes here, but they certainly don't grow well.

I'm trying to avoid buying tomatoes from the supermarket because I've been spoiled by the taste of home-grown tomatoes. As such, I've been buying canned & dried tomatoes, but not fresh.

I was wondering, would buying tomatoes from a farmer's market be almost as good as home-grown? Or do they use some of the same tactics as what the distributors use (i.e., picking them while they're green, and false-ripening them)?

I'm guessing that all markets are different and you can only give me a general answer at best, but I'll take any info I can. =)

This almost seems too good to be true. I'm going to try to put this to use here in Utah when I buy a house. I think we get a bit more rainfall than Missoula, so I'm excited to see how well it works.

Irrigation is a huge concern for me. I want to basically turn my whole property (which I hope to be 0.25-0.33 acre) into an edible forest. Right now, I have no idea how to do so without 800 or so gallons of irrigation per day. That ain't permaculture, baby!

I'm reading through Gaia's Garden, which boasts that people in arid regions like New Mexico have been able to create lush edible forests with very little irrigation. I don't know how they're doing it! If plants require an inch of rainfall per week, then that means a lot of irrigation for an area that only gets 17" per year (much of which is in the winter).

Hopefully, this method will help.

Is it sustainable? If everyone in suburban America created a hugelkulture bed, would it devastate our forests?

Also, how long does it last?

Thanks Joop Corbin! That looks like a great resource. I will start there.

Haha, that's cool that there's another knarf out there. I'm from Utah, though. I just chose this name because it's my first name, backward (Frank). =D

Greetings,

I am making my first attempt at a permaculture design this year, and I am having some difficulty choosing plants. That's for another discussion, though. What this thread is about is this. My conundrum made me think: it would nice to have a plant database, with some sort of web interface that I can use to make an advanced query, e.g. "Perennial shrub layer plant, Hardiness Zone 6b or below, partial shade, food, beneficial insects".

Of course, the query wouldn't be a sentence like that. It would have radio buttons, drop-down menus, check boxes, etc.

Does something like this exist?

If not, how feasible do you think it would be to create something like this? I am a software developer, but I only have about 5 months of professional experience with web programming. I know a little SQL. I think I could design the database tables, web forms, and server-side scripts and so forth. However, I might need someone to hold my hand a little bit.

Also, I would need lots of data! I'm thinking that crowd-sourcing might be the best way to go, i.e. "Wikipedia-style", "anyone can contribute" sort of thing. It could be set up so that anyone can submit a plant species. They would fill out a web form of some kind, checking off the various properties of the plant they're adding, plus a name (common and scientific?) and description. They could also choose other plants in the database with which the new plant pairs well (and maybe even leave a note describing why the pairing is beneficial).

Then maybe there could be a couple of moderators. They would need to be real plant experts who can quickly review new submissions & changes, and just oversee the project to ensure accuracy.

Anyway, just a crazy idea. Feel free to trash it! =)

Edit: Sorry for the edits, I did a horrible job proofreading. I'll let any other spelling / grammar mistakes lie as they are. =P

Thanks for writing this up. Quite convincing, and I look forward to Paul's response. No matter who ends up 'winning', I'm indebted to both of you for investing the time to research & explain this topic.