Dan Broun

Yeah, that's about it in a nutshell. But the roof will be a standard style, with a 3-12 pitch, not a single slope. My cousin has a company that has been making and selling these kits for years, it's pretty standard.

http://www.balmezconstruction.com/Hay%20Barn.jpg

That is just an image I found on google, it's not affiliated with my cousins business, but it's a pretty standard hay barn. I can get it in any size I need, bigger just cost more, more materials and all that. They do these and pole house shells, workshops... that sort of thing. Not sure of the species of wood, but these buildings are designed to last for a long time with the poles just buried in the earth, I will be using concrete.

And yep, once I get the roof up, then I will ready the foundation, if not before hand, just a deep compacted gravel trench, with a few rows of tires also filled with gravel to keep it elevated. Then I will build the straw bales walls up underneath it, then finish the underside of the roof to make a good connection with the bales, finish the attic, and finish the overhangs like you would with any other house. Plenty of ventilation, plenty of insulation.

As for the greenhouse/atrium, just think of it as an inclosed carport. Below is a link to a picture that should give you a good idea of what I am thinking.

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/560897701/bicycle-shelter-car-shelter-polycarbonate-solid-sheet-greenhouse-sheet.jpg

So the entire south side will be built like any other exterior cob wall, so I would only get the warm air from the greenhouse if I opened the house windows, but the sun will be able to shine through both during the winter, heating the interior. And during the summer will be too high to get into the house, so it will stay cooler. And with the roof of the greenhouse/atrium/carport thing being made of heat reflective polycarb, it will keep the summer sun from heating the greenhouse floor the same way it will heat the rest of the house during the winter. Or at least it will be very limited. I could even just make the roof out of regular sheetmetal roofing, like on the house, and still get plenty of light for summer greenhouse growth. I am going with the polycarb for that structures roof, because it will add more light, and diffuse it, as well has limiting summer heat gain.

As for the dimensions, I get that most people would think of 1200 sq ft as super small for a 3 bed 2 bath, but I decided on this as opposed to a regular style tiny house. I had actually spent a great deal of time planning one of those, but I opted for more space for this build because I hope to have a family living in it. I think most modern homes are WAY too big, and really like smaller, much more energy efficient homes. So even if I go with a 30x75 or 30x80 roof structure, I will still keep the house dimensions 20x60. It is plenty of space, shallow enough to really benifit from passive solar heating, and well insulated enough and with enough thermal mass to keep AC costs way low during the summer. So much so that when I do switch to solar/wind after a few years, that I wont need nearly as big of a system as I would otherwise.

I know its an odd shape, and wouldn't pass the aesthetics test for most americans, and there won't be room for 7 flat screens, two living rooms, and a billiard/game room, but that's not what I want anyway. I grew up moving a lot, and have lived in 500sq ft homes, to 3-4k sg ft homes, and I like the smaller ones better, provided they have adequate sound proofing, lol.

I really like your drawings, I need to get myself in gear and learn to use sketch up, but the new job has been running me ragged, but I am adjusting, going from sitting on my butt in an office for the past decade, to running my butt off in a factory has been a huge change of pace for me, but I'm still relatively young, and am adjusting. I will email you requesting the plans here directly, I really appreciate the offer!

I do want you to understand very well (which is hard without "face to face," conversation that I really enjoy reading such enthusiasm as you share for your plan project!

I promise to always give my very best direct answers (as I know and understand the question) and anytime I feel that the information has an overly subjective perspective, I will let that be known.

I want only success for any project shared, and have tried very hard to never share information that is not solicited first (unless I see a real risk to like/property) so if someone is just “sharing ideas, plans, concepts” without actually asking a “question,”...I have really made an exerted effort… ...to keep my fingers still and not respond...As such if anyone does ask a question..I will always do my best to give the best response I know, or have experienced….

Once again, I really appreciate the responses and advice given. My favorite thing about permies, is that it is full of people that share some of my passions, and I love the fact that your are as excited to teach, as I am to learn. As far as waiting for something to be solicited, by all means, don't wait. You don't need to hold off and wait for me to mention this or that, if you have input, please don't hesitate to tell me what you have in mind. The attached greenhouse part, I understand your reservations, and am going to be very mindful of how all that goes down. If it ends up being a problem, it wont be hard at all for me to just take it down, and move it somewhere else. Then I could take the entire south wall down, as it wont be load bearing, and re do it so that I can better insulate it.

And in regards to your concern about the golden ratio, and the lay out, I will consider making adjustments, but I am a function over form kind of guy. The house will be long and shallow, to allow the passive solar effect to really take off. With all of the thermal mass in the walls and floor, I'm expecting to only have to fire up the fireplaces during the cloudier stretches during the winter. In my part of the world, the summers are usually pretty sunny.


As far as the cooling tubes, I have been looking into them the past few days, and they don't look very good at all. I knew there would be potential problems with mold and moisture, but nobody has really seemed to be able to resolve that, and I don't really like how any of it as come out. So that means that I will just be going with regular old AC, that I will be running through the attic.

The radiant barrier stuff, I know is a lot of hokum. I will be using a light colored, reflective metal for the roof, haven't decided exactly what color, but that will be a few months down the road. The barrier I am looking at is super cheap, and connects inside the attic, about 6" from the actually roof. Depending on the type of roofing I get, this probably wont even be needed, but I have seen promising results from this stuff being used. Some of it is totally crap, snake oil exactly like you mentioned. But in the attic, with a bit of an air gap between it and the roof, it supposedly will help keep down the heat. This would also be installed so as not to interfere with the ventilation, and can be easily removed if it proves worthless. But, given your advice, I will build it up without it first, and only add it later if I need to get my attic space cooler. If like you said, with a light colored roof, lots of ventilation will do what I need, then that's all the better.

You have to get the recipe perfect or what was supposed to be a fancy souffle turns out to be a rather icky sweet omelet thingy

I actually lol'ed at that. It is a perfect analogy, and I see what you are trying to point out. There are earthships in my climate that work just fine, so I know that this can be done. I guess an atrium would be a better way of putting, what I want for the front. Or maybe just think of it as a long, glass covered front porch. The front of the house will be built normally, as in with cob. And completely enclosed. The only way that air will be moved from the house to the atrium would be to open windows. I will have the low gain poly carb sheets for the top, that I will be able to open to vent the air when it's too hot, as well as the doors coming in from the sides, and some of the front, vertical windows will be able to be opened, to allow air to move.


Ok so for now, this is the best that I have, while I find the time to learn to use sketchup. This is a basic layout from a site that helps you design a home, so they can sell you home decor stuff. It is pretty rough, the windows are not the way they will actually turn out, on the house part that is, and it doesn't show the roof or specify the bale walls or anything like that. So keep in mind that the bale wall will be the north, and the two shorts. The south will of course be the one with all the windows. And the roof will basically be a separate structure, with this build underneath it. Remember I'm getting a haybarn kit, then converting that into an actual roof.

Let me know what you think, sorry it took so long to get this up.

http://www.homestyler.com/designprofile/a09ff2f4-aa78-42ed-af68-b503f65286f5

"I am not seeing how we get five foot over hangs on three side? That makes for a 2.5 foot overhangs on four sides, or zero overhang on two sides and five foot overhangs on two sides...?? What am I missing? I would also suggest from the perspective of overhangs, 2.5 feet is not even close to overkill and as a porch roof, as suggested 5 feet is actually very small and only if the porch (walk way) is 3 feet wide, as the minimum overhang for most "natural builds" is 2 feet."

The south facing wall will not be made of SB, but most likely cob, and will run about right to the end of the roof, like a normal house would. This will be capable of acting alone, but will be the side with the attached greenhouse. I hope to make you a believer in the attached greenhouse, so long as, like SB construction, it's done right. The greenhouse area will also have the grey water cells for planting, as well as other growing areas, and most likely an outdoor table set up.

This leaves five feet across the entire back wall. As the interior walls will stop at 60 feet, or there abouts, this will leave five feet on each end. Now that you mention it, that would be a pretty narrow porch, but that would be something to come later. This is just an easy way for me to get plenty of overhang, to help protect my walls from the elements, and provide extra shading. The walls will also be white, so that will help them not pick up a lot of heat during the summer.

"Hmmm...I wouldn't call it far fetch per se, but I am uncertain of the accuracy? This is to cover all the insulation/SB, the lime, the wood elements, tooling, windows, roofing, etc ?? If you have typed up a cost breakdown/gantt chart it would help folk to see it, either for guidance to you or (if accurate) good information for them to have... "

Once I get the preliminary price list completed, I will post it up. I wont be surprised if I end up going over, but with luck, and help from all of the discount building supply stores in my area, I also wont be surprised if I go under budget.

"Personal ambient comfort zones is really subjective, yet on average, if a natural build is design well, augmented cooling in the summer should never be a necessity accept in extremely hot weather, and even then sometime it isn't an issue either...All design, build, and material dependent..."

We definitely get some extreme hot weather. Once I have more key concepts down, and know exactly how I'm going to build this and that, I am going to do some research on subterranean cooling tubes. But if I cant get any good info on whether or not that would work, I will just go with a regular AC unit, and run the ducts where I can. If it comes to that, since the roof will be so well insulated, and will use a radiant barrier, I'm betting I can get away with running it through the attic. I'm not really focused on that right now, but I know I can make it work if it comes down to it.

"Be it modern designs with too large of windows to no roof overhangs, etc. It may look good to someone, or seem like a grand plan (with future possible changes and upgrades), or just be a "I like it," matter. I will leave you to your concepts, and "wants" as these are individual subjective goals that one such as I shouldn't be critical of. However, it was asked about possible issues with this concept and if the structure is challenged in any way. I can predict with some certainty (~90%) if the current design concept is followed as described it will have moderate to sever moisture issues, or become too hot...(among several other chronic challenges with such designs)...

Even a well heeled project budget, under the supervision and direction of an experienced design/builder, who is processing a committed assiduity, and comprehension to these many modalities of means, methods and material employment as it applies to natural buildings would be hard pressed to achieve this "growing fruit" level of a greenhouse, while being well incorporated and integrally connected to the overall living space. Not without heavy incorporation of technological devices and super high end ventilation and monitoring systems. I don't see this as achievable within the current budget or skill set of a DIYer...I would pleased to be wrong on this..."

Don't get me wrong, I understand the concerns that you have, and am certain that your hesitation to follow this through is based on a wealth of knowledge and experience. For this aspect of the build, I will be following very closely the methods and procedures already undertaken when building traditional Earthships. There are Earthships in my climate, my area, and even hotter and more humid ones as well. Earthships, for all of their flaws from earlier designs, have come a very long way. Though I'm not incorporating the tires, the berm, or the concrete and can/bottle walls and other concepts, I will be following the successful practices that make well made Earthships something very remarkable. And these are all done without elaborate systems to shade or vent, and that is how I will do this in the beginning. The automated stuff will come later as a project for me to undertake, partly for convenience, and partly for "funzies".

And as far as growing fruit and what not, that is actually very easy to do in any greenhouse. One of the biggest gimmicks in each video released by Earthship Biotecture shows bananas being picked and eaten when there is a foot of snow outside. If that means that I have to have a rocket mass heater during the winter for the cloudy times, I'm totally cool with that. If people can grow mandarin oranges in their windows, and have plastic greenhouses hosting small citrus orchards, in Canada of all places, I'm sure of the feasibility of this and look forward to the free fruit and nice smells. Hand pollinating with an electric toothbrush will undoubtedly become a pain in the but though, I'm sure.

"Make test panels, and understand very well what is being done...lime can be very challenging if just walking in cold and thinking it can be done easy. Ag lime is not for building...

As for the cobb vs SB...without designs I can't say. As for labor SB usually is less labor compared to traditional cobb. I would suggest "straw or wood ship clay slip," over SB, or cobb in most applications."

Thanks for the heads up about the AG lime. Once I got a chance to research it I saw some people giving it a go, but not showing many long term results. And these where mostly for aesthetic interior spaces, and not so much for any other function that looking nice in a regular, modern home. I will definitely be testing as much as a can before the actual build commences, because not only am I going to be doing this myself, I'm going to have to show others how to do it the way it needs to be done, when it's time to call in the volunteers.

I will be using cob if the soil I get is right, but most likely for the interior, as I'm doubting I will have enough to both inside and out. But if I can, or if I can find a good source of local soil that I can process into useable cob, I will totally go with cob for the whole thing. It will most likely save me money, work really well, and I just like cob.

I appreciate all of the input, more is always welcome, and I will get some sort of crude sketch up this weekend.

Thanks again everyone!

Ahhh, yeah that makes sense. In some ways I would love that, in others... not so much. I really like the idea of a living roof, but its out of my budget. Good luck finding a traveling permie, they should really have a classified section on this place, because a lot of what is discussed wouldnt qualify for woofing.

Right on Pia! It's a start, anyway. But if the sheets are not what you ordered, can't you send them back?

Thanks for the replies! I really love this part of the world, and I totally agree that it is something special. Sadly I don't live in the actual Ozarks anymore, but I'm only thirty minutes away so that is nice, The climate is still exactly the same.

I will definitely read the foundation thread, and I have completely abandoned the notion of sealing. I will just use a straight lime plaster, and as this will be a labor of love, I will be taking my time to get each point just right.

I will try to get a sketch up this weekend, and an architect from Canada actually Mosseaged me and offered to draw something up just so he can get some practice with the concept, just another reason why I love this place so much.

In the meantime, the pole building roof is pretty straight forward, just poles concreted into the ground, with an open roof attached to the top, the kind of building that farmers use to store hay to keep it dry. I have some incredibly knowledgeable friends, who are very well accustomed to traditional construction, who are helping me plan that part of the project, as well as lending ideas and knowledge in many other aspects of the build. And since sealing the outside is an absolute deal breaker, I have come to the conclusion that overkill is highly under rated. So now, I intend to have the pole roof made to be 25x70, but I will keep the interior dimensions the same. This way I can have the rest of the roof cover five feet on the three sides that have the strawbale walls (non load baring), and use the extra space as a wrap around porch. It shouldn't cost that much extra, will keep the elements off, especially if i screen it, and will add a nice feature.

This means that the SB walls will not bare any load, and will be well protected from the environment. I'm also hoping that all that summer shade will help keep the building nice and cool.

As far as labor and budget goes, it will be 100% sweat equity. I have friends that regularly employ my labor at the cost of lunch and gatorade, and will be working for the same. As far as the budget goes, I want to keep it under 10k for just the structure, not including the plumbing electric appliances etc. I know this might seem far fetched, but thus far with the materials I have priced at store cost, I am well within the limit. I am also lucky enough to have several local spots that sell building materials for dirt cheap prices, so I will figure for the most expensive, and spend time hunting down deals to get this done the best that I can, without sacrificing quality.

And Jay, since you are well aware of the climate I am in, if I build this place correctly, well ventilated highly insulated attic, insulated earthen floor, keeping the interior shielded from the summer sun, what do you think my chances are of not having to have an air conditioner? I am planning for it to not be possible at all, but If I am wrong, I am EXTREMELY interested in hearing more.

I get your concerns about the attached greenhouse, and have read them on other posts as well. But I am so taken with the idea of growing tropical fruits in my home, basically in a very large terrarium, that I am married to the idea. That being said, it is going to really be more like an enclosed carport with vertical glass walls, and possibly a sloped polycarbonate roof that attaches to the front of the house. I have been learning from another post I made in the the passive solar forum that they supposedly make a type of polycarb that reflects most of the heat, but still lets in a lot of the light. I am not married to this concept yet, I still have a lot of research to do on it, but that would totally help with summer heat. And as far as winter overheating goes, I am confident that I can manage it. Yes at first raising and lowering shades and what not on that big of a wall is going to be a pain, but will be doable. After a year or two though, I am going to move to nearly full automation of both the house, and the micro farm I intend to have on the .71 acres. Sensors to measure floor and air temperature, that will raise or lower shades automatically, moisture sensors in the raised beds to turn on the watering systems for just the right amount of time, etc.


The land is pretty bare, I think maybe one or two trees, and has a slight slope to the north. Not normally ideal for a passive solar home, but the winter sun will still be perfectly in range for the passive solar concept. I am most likely going to be putting in a swale in front of the house, and between that and the building, a french drain, to keep the water well away from the house.

Bill, that cost for plaster is right up my alley! Before I knew the difference, I had priced out quickcrete stucco and it was about twice that, so I am super stoked that the proper materials for the project I am undertaking is even more affordable. S type line is easy to come buy, but I am told that we can get agricultural lime for a great price. I just learned about this today, so I haven't had the time to research it yet as a building material.

I had originally wanted to build with all cob, and the soil in Missouri is renowned for its high clay content. At least we think it is . The problem though is I would most likely have to dig it all out at the location, and for what I want, that would be a pretty big hole. Not to mention the labor involved would be incredibly time consuming for two or three people. Another concern that I have about it is that I have read about other people who have build cob homes here in Missouri, and found them unlivable during the winters. SB will provide extremely good insulation, and between it and the like plaster it should have the thermal mass department covered. I have been considering from the get go using the soil that I dig from the foundation to be used in the interior walls, but I am planning for the worst, in the event that it wont be suitable for making the interior. If it is, and will work, I might make my entire south wall out of cob, just to keep things easy and cheap.

Sorry im kind of bouncing all over the place, its well past my bedtime, and I worked a 12 last night, and am looking at another one in a few hours. Well worth it for what I'm working towards, however. I'm super pumped right now because I just signed the contract, and made my first payment for the land! $500 a month, for four months. The guy isn't even charging interest. In my county, that is a hell of a deal, especially since it will have city utilities, but the "city" is tiny and rural enough, that pretty much anything goes. When I scouted this place out a few months ago, the neighbors have everything from chicken, to sheep, to ponies in their yards, and if half of those houses would pass any kind of code, I would be suprised. Getting ahold of the city to ask about any permits or codes is pretty tough, as they never seem to be open when I call, but ofcourse, I will be double checking before I do any of this, though I am pretty confident that anything goes. I even confirmed with the county commissioner that they have no jurisdiction where I want to build, and its entirely up to the city.

I hope I covered everything well enough, without having any drawings. I will try to get something put up this weekend to give a better example of what I'm describing here.

Thanks again for the responses, and guidance everyone!

Dan

Thanks! I will check out those links, and learn all that I can. Depending on the soil type in the area, I had intended to do an earth/cob plaster for the interior to match the floors, but I wasn't entirely sure if it would be good enough at the depths I would be going. I will definetly check out white clouds discussion, that guy really seems to know his stuff.

Guys, I am so sorry. I apparently created this post in a near sleepless delirium after starting a new job, and forgot about it entirely until looking at my profile to reference something else. I just started a new job working nights, and the beginning took a bit of a toll on me. There are some fantastic responses here, I really appreciate the links, and the info.

I live in southern Missouri, basically in the Ozarks. I had forgotten to mention that only the top part of the greenhouse will be slanted, if at all, and I will be keeping it shaded in the summer, most likely with some home brew shutter system.

Thank you all so much for your responses, and excellent, detailed information, as well as personal experiences. This project will begin coming into fruition in the next few months, though slowly, and in stages. I will be filming it for to put up on youtube, and will be sure to keep a thread on it in the building forum so that anyone interested can watch, and of course, give constructive criticism.

Hello all!

I am in the process of buying a plot of land, and intend to build what I am calling an "Earthship inspired" Passive solar straw bale house. I know that there is another thread that has covered another persons take on that same idea, but many of the points raised in that discussion are things that I have already taken into consideration, and believe I can remedy.

Where I am building, the code is really non existent, so I am going to take full advantage of this wherever possible, so long as it does not sacrifice structural integrity. The location is in the missouri Ozarks, or near enough to have the same climate, anyway.

The following areas are ones that I am seeking guidance on, but I will also be giving details on how I wish to build my home. If you notice anything that you think I should be concerned about, but seem to be oblivious of, please feel free to point it out. I welcome any and all criticism and advice on my build. Thanks in advance.

The basic design I have in mind, is a 20x60x10 building, with three cob walls, and the fourth, facing south will be where I pick up the passive solar, and attack my 15' deep attached greenhouse. The greenhouse will be attached completely to this wall, and will not contact the SB. The glazing for the greenhouse will be thick, polycarbonate panels. I know the panels are not permanent but I want to go with them for the first several years at least. They diffuse light, and I'm hoping that will help negate over heating. Other steps that will be taken to avoid overheating will include large radiant barrier drapes inside the home, and a vertical, rather than slanted greenhouse wall.

For the roof I will be using a roof only pole kit, that I will insulate and vent. The floors will be insulated rammed earth. The interior will be warm earth colors to help capture more radiant heat. I will also have interior fireplaces, though not in contact with the SB walls.




The Foundation.

I intend to make my foundation with a gravel trench, with one layer of used tires above them also filed with gravel, as the foundation and a way to lift the straw bales up out of the elements. I will be plastering the bottom of the bales as I set the first run, and then build up. I will also be incorporating multiple french drains to aid in shedding water, and the soil I am building on is greater than 60" deep, and has excellent drainage. Will this be enough, should I go two layers high on the tires to further elevate my walls?

Exterior Finish.

I am currently trying to price out the use of lime plaster, both interior and exterior. I know that a permeable finish is needed for SB homes to have any kind of longevity, and this is why I am going with the lime plaster, though knowing how much I will need is proving to be a challenge to learn. What I am considering, that seems to be highly advised against, is sealing the exterior plaster. I know that sealing SB is a bad idea, as it will be unable to exchange moisture. My thought is, the entire interior will be unsealed lime plaster, and will lead to a well ventilated, highly insulated roof. Will this be enough to keep the SB in good condition? The reason I consider it, is the amount of driving rain we get in my area will make keeping an unsealed lime exterior very difficult to work with, and the high humidity in the summers will also prove challenging.



Goals.

Budget

I have a set budget goal for the main part of the house, that so far I am well within, though I am having trouble determining the cost of lime plastering 2000 sq/ft. This does not include the cost of the greenhouse, as that will be a later addition. I make very little money, and would like to own my own home, with my income, within two years. The plans that I have come up with will be very cheap, and something I can do in stages, albeit some larger than others.

Longevity

I hope to raise a family in this home, and I would like for it to last at the very least, the rest of my life, if not multiple generations. I understand that this will require upkeep, but what home doesn't.

Performance

I intend for this home to be affordable to cool during the summer, and ideally not require much supplemental heating in the winter. Our temperatures vary wildly, with colds as low as -20 some years, and triple digit heatwaves that can last weeks. With the high thermal mass, that will be painted white on the exterior, and will have a very well insulated roof, with radiant a radiant barrier, I hope to be able to manage the warm summer weather with minimal air conditioning.


Thank you for reading, if there is some detail I left out, that needs included for you to help me make a decision, just ask and I will be happy to explain.

Thanks!

Dan

I am in the process of purchasing my land, and am trying to hash out the finer details of my home so I can start getting ready to build. I am going to be making an earthship inspired passive solar home, but with straw bales and cob, as opposed to a tire wall.

As far as budgets go, they don't really get any tighter than mine, so in looking for ways to keep costs down, I went looking for something less expensive than glass. What I found was polycarbonate sheeting. The double walled stuff sounds amazing! Great for greenhouses, diffuses light, and cuts down UV. That's Awesome! But will it allow the winter sun to heat the interior floors and cob walls of my home, helping me keep the place warm in the winter?

I am concerned that the diffused and lack of UV wont charge up the thermal mass well enough, or in a way comparable to glass. Google wasn't very helpful, so i turn my question to you, oh knowledgeable permaculturists!