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!!!!!! bitcoinHEX  RSS feed

 
pollinator
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This guy, Richard Heart of *Australia, is building an interest feature into his 'bitcoin fork'. I believe this is new and different than other crypto-currencies. I believe that if people are looking for a "currency" when they look to crypto, this bitcoin fork will get straight to work.

Because it's a fork, bitcoin holders may claim their coins.

Check it out, and please use this referral link to claim your coins: bitcoinHEX.

*not; apparently I was wrong
 
Davin Hoyt
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In case you are new to bitcoin, I will attempt to explain:

Bitcoin is a ledger that can be used as a currency.
This project, bitcoinHEX, is being developed TO BE A CURRENCY.
 
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Hi Davin.

I admit, even reading through the link, I am less than enlightened on the subject.

Could you perhaps tell us a bit more in layman's terms? We didn't all start on Coderanch.

-CK
 
Davin Hoyt
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Chris Kott wrote:Could you perhaps tell us a bit more in layman's terms?

I feel like you are joking. But thanks for the challenge... from what I am witnessing, people are confused about the value associated with communal digital ledgers. Since bitcoin's creation, other coins have been created. Good projects are attempting to be unique, but many are falling short of that, and are looking like frauds instead. When making a coin, the coin needs a base system to run on. For bitcoinHEX, that base is Ethereum. BitcoinHEX will fork (split) from the bitcoin ledger (tables/wallets), which means it will divide it's ledger (tables/wallets) the same, to start, which makes full adoption more appropriate to current bitcoin holders. BitcoinHEX will wrap up the current concerns about bitcoin being a currency, and run on the Ethereum platform.
 
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Hmm, could you dumb it down a bit further?  Maybe to the 4th grade level?  

All I know about them is that they consume a tremendous amount of electricity to maintain, they are not physical pieces of money and that hackers like to use them for payment.
 
Davin Hoyt
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Mike Jay wrote:could you dumb it down a bit further?



There are a lot of computers.
There is a fixed amount of digital coin.
We trade those coins for whatever purpose.
The computers make that transaction a 'consensus'.
The computers take a small fee for their work.

Equivalent: If I gave a cashier a dollar bill, the computers would show that dollar's code number go from me, to the store.

As of now, bitcoin's digital coin could be used for anything.
The digital coin is digital space on the bitcoin system.

Equivalent: Digital real estate like website domain names.

Some people say bitcoin is a first-generation experiment.
What governs bitcoins, or how a bitcoin works, could be more adapted to being a currency specifically.
Richard Heart is trying to make a currency in bitcoinHEX.

 
Mike Jay
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Ok, I get the "money" moving from person to person part.  What I don't get is that you can just make it up (create it) and then it's a currency and people start trading it.  It seems akin to if I went out there and created a company called General Ford Motors Company.  Then people just decide it's a good thing and buy stock and trade it back and forth.  The main difference is with stocks, there's the value of a company behind it.  What's the value/backing behind a cryptocurrency?
 
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Same thing as federal reserve notes, in my mind, only backed by "full faith etc".
 
Davin Hoyt
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Mike Jay wrote:What's the value/backing behind a cryptocurrency?



Decentralized consensus.

To me, the most eye-opening statement would be: "Digital real estate." For example: Paul rents "permies.com" and "richsoil.com" from a world-wide consensus. I do the same for my website domain. There are a finite amount of domain names that are appropriate to consumers as we progress. Some name like "smoke.com" has become worth millions of USD.
 
Davin Hoyt
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Miles Flansburg wrote:Same thing as federal reserve notes, in my mind...



Notes do not have a fixed supply (at the moment).

Furthermore, if I wanted to send crypto to Paul, I could do that in minutes - digital wallet to digital wallet.
But if I wanted to send USD to Paul, it may take days - bank to bank.
 
Mike Jay
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Ok, so US dollars are backed by the "full faith" of the US government.  Which consists of billions or trillions of dollars worth of assets and a strong incentive to keep the economy and financial systems running.

It sounds like bitcoin is backed by the "decentralized consensus" of the world via their commitment to a virtual currency.  I guess I'm not seeing how there's any actual value to support it.  Other than the value people believe it holds on a given day.  If enough people think it has value, then they trade it and are happy.  But if people suddenly lose faith in it, doesn't the value drops dramatically overnight?

Or is it that in order to acquire one bitcoin, you pay XXX actual dollars into a kettle.  Then you have a bitcoin that you can trade.  The dollars that someone is keeping in the kettle are the support for the system.  So as long as you trust them, it's all good?  
 
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Davin Hoyt wrote:

Mike Jay wrote:What's the value/backing behind a cryptocurrency?



Decentralized consensus.



Perhaps relevant to the fact that we're on Permies, an answer other than "Decentralized consensus" to Mike's question might be "around 3GW of computing" (no one really knows and it changes over time but this is probably an alright estimate).  Or, since the Bitcoin network can process about 10 transactions per second, we could say "83kWh per transaction" (also the network is "always on" so the energy cost is paid whether anyone is transacting or not).

So, specifically, it's worth considering whether the benefits of Bitcoin outweigh the internalized and externalized costs of maintaining it.

Davin Hoyt wrote:
To me, the most eye-opening statement would be: "Digital real estate." For example: Paul rents "permies.com" and "richsoil.com" from a world-wide consensus. I do the same for my website domain. There are a finite amount of domain names that are appropriate to consumers as we progress. Some name like "smoke.com" has become worth millions of USD.



Hm.  I don't think this comparison is quite right.  Those domain names are rented from centralized authorities (the "registries").  If those centralized authorities decide to take the domain names away, they can.  Bitcoin, on the other hand, allows anyone in the world to participate (as long as they have the computing resources and corresponding power) and requires that 50%+1 of computing power (or ~33% if folks are really clever) agree to any particular transaction.

Also, it's not clear to me how "digital real estate" relates since one bitcoin is one bitcoin and will not practically appreciate (or depreciate) compared to another bitcoin.  Technically, bitcoin *aren't* fungible but this technicality doesn't seem like it would allow the kind of valuation growth you see in popular domain names.

Other problems to watch out for with any "altcoins" (there's another less polite term for them, too) is that since there is so much computing hardware available to run the Bitcoin network and the altcoin networks are so much smaller, it is very easy for an agent to move some hardware from Bitcoin to an altcoin and become 50%+1 all by themselves.  This allows them to do all kinds of nasty things that break the very premise of the coin.
 
Davin Hoyt
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Mike Jay wrote:Ok, so US dollars are backed by the "full faith" of the US government.  Which consists of billions or trillions of dollars worth of assets and a strong incentive to keep the economy and financial systems running.


Trust is needed.

Mike Jay wrote:It sounds like bitcoin is backed by the "decentralized consensus" of the world via their commitment to a virtual currency.  I guess I'm not seeing how there's any actual value to support it.  Other than the value people believe it holds on a given day.  If enough people think it has value, then they trade it and are happy.  But if people suddenly lose faith in it, doesn't the value drops dramatically overnight?



Yes. But the same goes for countrys’ monetary systems. Bitcoin’s USD value is up 1000% since summer of 2017.

Mike Jay wrote:Or is it that in order to acquire one bitcoin, you pay XXX actual dollars into a kettle.  Then you have a bitcoin that you can trade.  The dollars that someone is keeping in the kettle are the support for the system.  So as long as you trust them, it's all good?  



No. There are crypto currencies that are a one to one with USD, but bitcoin is not.
 
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Davin Hoyt wrote:

Mike Jay wrote:Ok, so US dollars are backed by the "full faith" of the US government.  Which consists of billions or trillions of dollars worth of assets and a strong incentive to keep the economy and financial systems running.


Trust is needed.

Mike Jay wrote:It sounds like bitcoin is backed by the "decentralized consensus" of the world via their commitment to a virtual currency.  I guess I'm not seeing how there's any actual value to support it.  Other than the value people believe it holds on a given day.  If enough people think it has value, then they trade it and are happy.  But if people suddenly lose faith in it, doesn't the value drops dramatically overnight?



Yes. But the same goes for countrys’ monetary systems. Bitcoin’s USD value is up 1000% since summer of 2017.



And down 83% since 12 months ago.
 
Davin Hoyt
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Jean-Paul Calderone wrote:
And down 83% since 12 months ago.



And the roots?

In 2012 I said to myself, “only when other people do it too.”
 
Mike Jay
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So if the value can change so dramatically, it seems like a combination of a risky investment and a currency system.  I know national currencies fluctuate relative to one another but that's based on GDP and other normal-ish economic indicators.  If the money in my pocket went up and down by 100's of percentages over the course of a year, I'd consider it more of a risky investment than I would a means of currency.

If someone wants to give me some, I won't turn them down.  If I could buy bitcoin for $1 per coin, I'd buy them.  But I'm not about to convert $10,000 USD into bitcoin to start using them as money.
 
Davin Hoyt
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Mike Jay wrote:So if the value can change so dramatically, it seems like a combination of a risky investment and a currency system.  I know national currencies fluctuate relative to one another but that's based on GDP and other normal-ish economic indicators.  If the money in my pocket went up and down by 100's of percentages over the course of a year, I'd consider it more of a risky investment than I would a means of currency.



The value is decided “by the market”, and this system is new and improving.

If I may return to the digital real estate analogy:  the online bubble popped and returned strong. People started focused tech careers there.

Where we are now: You can have a wallet in your internet browser and/or cell phone. Bitcoin and most other coins just had a bubble. People are starting careers.

 
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Jean-Paul Calderone wrote:And down 83% since 12 months ago.



This is how Ponzi scams behave.

 
Davin Hoyt
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I've already crossed the line into finance talk, so....
if this is the dawn of a new currency,
the residual income could make your participation 1K to 1M per hour.
That's the hindsight 20/20 blogger talk Paul uses.
 
Davin Hoyt
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Trying to get the word out more with this video bomb.

 
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As I see them, cryptocurrencies only offer the illusion of getting something for nothing.
 
Davin Hoyt
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Update: The project's "launch" and "snapshot" exact date(s) (in the near future) are unknown, but the developers have a live chat in an app called Telegram. There are 2,600 people in the Telegram chat room. Bitcoin price is currently 5,200$.
 
Davin Hoyt
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Here are three other people introducing the project, as I have tried to do myself (with my video earlier).







I hope this finds you at an optimal time.
 
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I am personally to much of a luddiphte to get into actually owning cryptocurrencies at the moment. But to add my 2 bitcoins to the most common question of 'how does this digital currency have any physical value?' from long talks with friends who are deeply committed to the idea of digital currency the 'value' lies in the fact that lots and lots of people (like billions) want to have this technology. These people want a way to transfer value digitally quickly and securely. They want a way to pay/get paid anonymously, they want a financial avenue around banks and currency conversion fees, they want an alternative free savings space to hoarding physical cash/metal, etc... The combination of billions of people desiring a system that can do these various things, and a decentralized system that is harder (ideally impossible) to control/manipulate is the source of the value.
As to the computing power needed and it's energy cost, my understanding is that the 'mining' aspect of bitcoin was an intentional design feature to incentivize the commitment of computing infrastructure to the system. Mining bitcoin will end once they are all released and at that point the ledger is just another of the trillions of ambient features of the global computer network so it's energy costs become the total energy cost of the global computer network divided by the percentage of that network dedicated to maintaining the ledger (vanishingly small).
Any how, i find it a fascinating technology and I think that the massive impact it will have on the world will pop up on many of us seemingly out of nowhere.
 
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stephen lowe wrote:I am personally to much of a luddiphte to get into actually owning cryptocurrencies at the moment.



I never will.
It's a Ponzi.
Instead, I use cash because it's simple, easy, and off grid because it doesn't require being tethered to the web.
 
Been there. Done that. Went back for more. But this time, I took this tiny ad with me:
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