use a real sounding name - no edge cases please

Lately there have been some people that have requested name changes and the names sound like they are not real.  

I fully support people using a name that is not their real name.   But it must be a real sounding name.  

If you use a name that is a minor character in a book or show, that inspires more work for the staff.   If you use a name that has a bit of clever in it like "justin case", that also inspires other people to try for the edge also.  And then there is stuff like "Nick Soapdish" or "Walter Whatever".  

If your name is Mary McDaniel and you wish to have anonymity, then I would like to suggest Mary Jensen or Mary Moore.   Not an edge case name.  Not a name that will inspire others to see if they can also create clever names.  Or let the challenge be to see who can get away with the most.    

This is an all volunteer staff.  It isn't like you are wasting the time of some sort of corporate monster.   You are hindering good people from talking more about permaculture.  

We're totally open to the use of pseudonyms - just, please don't make more work for us.

I picked Mamishian because my real name is Soapdish.

People being afraid to use their real name has always seemed odd to me.
Llike putting a paper bag over your head and then drawing a face on it.

People being afraid to use their real name has always seemed odd to me

I don't think it usually has anything to do with fear...just another one of those 'freedom of choice' things.
There are so many real sounding possibilities, it's easy

I think fear would be a perfectly good reason to use an alias.

I was afraid to use my real name, but it's pretty easy to figure out who I am anyway, if anyone cared to.  I just got kinda paranoid when it was time to give a real sounding name, and decided not to use my actual real name.

My first try at a real sounding name was obviously fictional and Paul vetoed it.  :)

My real name is most definitely an edge case.

I tried using it for a while, but I felt it was better for the site if I went back to using my initial.  If it really bothered me, I could put my first name in my signature.  

Greg Mamishian wrote:I picked Mamishian because my real name is Soapdish.

People being afraid to use their real name has always seemed odd to me.
Llike putting a paper bag over your head and then drawing a face on it.

When you use your real name, anything you post will stay out there forever.  Someone can find it with just a simple Google search.That's just way too much information to allow just anyone to be able to look me up without even my knowledge of it. I may well maintain a Facebook account discussing things far more controversial than permaculture, but I can control who is on my friends list and make my posts private from the rest of the world. Doesn't really work that way here. It's a public forum. And even on a forum like this, sooner or later a topic is bound to come up where my answer isn't something I wanted anyone to be able to look up. Like nosy relatives for example. The ones that are on my decoy Facebook account. Or potential employers.

Actually it already has, the recent post about having children or not, but I haven't got enough apples to post in that thread yet.

What I've done is kept my first name, even my last initial the same, but not my full real name. And just respect the rules regarding names.

Hope that helps you understand why people don't use their real names.

I use my real name.

I despise internet anonymity. Despise it. It fosters the development of trolls because it removes accountability.

If I am attacked for something I post online, it most assuredly won't be by someone using their real name.

I wish it were possible to make it necessary to sign up as a member with a real name, even if it was locked up to the membership and most of the staff thereafter, and if another name was used in posts.

A person's word used to be their bond, but now we don't even interact with people. We're interacting with their anonymous internet aliases.

I use my real name as a sign of respect to those with whom I interact on this site. I wish we could kill the trollbots, nurse the real live trolls out of their trollhood (or help them to grow up and mature), and make places on the internet bastions of integrity and respect, as has already happened, to probably the greatest extent possible, with Permies.com.

-CK

Nathan Watson wrote:

Greg Mamishian wrote:I picked Mamishian because my real name is Soapdish.

People being afraid to use their real name has always seemed odd to me.
Llike putting a paper bag over your head and then drawing a face on it.

When you use your real name, anything you post will stay out there forever.

Yes.

Exactly.

That's why I use my real name because my word is my bond and I am happy to be held personally responsible for everything I say. There's no fear of employers because I work in my own businesses. I'm not afraid of people who hide behind fake names and consequently no one has ever bothered me. Those two are related. In my opinion it's good for a person's moral character to be fully exposed to all of the consequences of their online behavior.

In my opinion, fear of retribution from the world is evidence of having done something worthy of that fear.

Chris Kott wrote:I use my real name.

I despise internet anonymity. Despise it. It fosters the development of trolls because it removes accountability.

If I am attacked for something I post online, it most assuredly won't be by someone using their real name.

I wish it were possible to make it necessary to sign up as a member with a real name, even if it was locked up to the membership and most of the staff thereafter, and if another name was used in posts.

A person's word used to be their bond, but now we don't even interact with people. We're interacting with their anonymous internet aliases.

I use my real name as a sign of respect to those with whom I interact on this site. I wish we could kill the trollbots, nurse the real live trolls out of their trollhood (or help them to grow up and mature), and make places on the internet bastions of integrity and respect, as has already happened, to probably the greatest extent possible, with Permies.com.

-CK

Chris, while I do agree with you... I'm not bothered by folks whose behavior demands they not use their real name.  They enjoy the same free choice I do. One of the most useful skills is learning how not to become emotionally upset by others, because whatever has the power to upset a person emotionally also has the power to control them through their own negative emotional reactions.

Because I live within a cultural ideology which is built on being upset offended and angry, my approach is simply to not participate in the "tyranny of the perpetually emotionally offended". :  )

I hear that, Greg. I also despise that ideology that suggests that the end-all and be-all of the human experience is to find reasons to be offended and make that displeasure known.

This is not to suggest that we should be as plain-spoken to the point of rudeness as we can; we should all be able to find a balance between our sensibilities and those of others, for the most part, that lets us express our thoughts and emotions.

-CK

r ranson wrote:My real name is most definitely an edge case.

I tried using it for a while, but I felt it was better for the site if I went back to using my initial.  If it really bothered me, I could put my first name in my signature.  

I wonder, is my name too close to the edge too?  I've sometimes wondered;  I would be willing to drop to my first initial if so.

Nope. There are people out there whose parents thought it was completely appropriate to name them after members of the Fellowship, or out of that whole series, or after geologic or terrain features (I have a nephew that shares his name with that of a generic word for watercourse). Rain Bow Sun MacLeod is no more outlandish or edge-casey.

The hippies of decades ago have rendered your name normal, Galadriel.

-CK

As a millennial, a grew up with quite a few interestingly-named people: Autumn, June, Skye, Mercedes, etc. My husband knew a lot of hippie kids: Star, Rainbow, etc. And, millennials are naming their kids all sort of names that wouldn't have been real-sounding 30 years ago. One friend named her son Knivves. Another friend named her daughter Eowyn (there's a LOTR name for you!). More names from my friends: Marvella and Dayspring (a boy), Selah, Glorious, and Khaleesi. Teaching preschool, I ran across Sydney, Hunter, Shelton, Mason. Another friend wanted to name their son Leonidas.

I'm thinking it's probably more important to have last names be "normal"-sounding, as there are less likely to be fake.

And, maybe, just maybe, if your last name isn't Woods, Forest, Groves, Gardener, etc, don't pick that as your real-sounding last name....or soon we'll have a forum full of Woods! If 50% of people have the last name Woods, then it sure doesn't look we're a forum of real-sounding names.

I think the main thing is, if you're picking a real-sounding pseudonym, please pick one that was normal say 30 years ago or has been in the top 100 names at some point somewhere. That way, the not-real-sounding-but-actually-real names can stand without people wondering if everyone has a pseudonym.  

One of my (real) family names is Gardner, which is pretty darn close to Gardener.  :)

I'm a loon with periodic paranoia, so if people find it offensive that I use a fake name, oh well, I guess a lot of things crazy people do can be offensive.

Now I can worry that people are hating on me because I have a fake name....

I think you might be amazed at how many of permies staff have fake names. I think it might be easier to have a real name if one is male, &/or never had a stalker/abuser in one's life. I think having a semi-fake (or totally fake) pseudonym is totally fine, as long as it sounds normal.

Remember, the big rule of Fake Name Club is, "Don't talk about Fake Name Club." It's totally okay to have a fake one--just don't talk about it!

And, yeah, I have family and friends with the last name of Groves, Woods and Forest. So, nature last names are pretty common...but they start looking fake when everyone has them, especially when they're changing their names to them.

I really hope that folks here that do choose to use a real sounding name that is not their own do not take personally the beliefs of other good folks here in this thread who choose to use their real name. Everybody thinks differently, and no one needs to justify their reasons for whatever they choose. I hope everyone feels welcomed here at Permies. I value what people contribute here each day, and I look forward to tomorrow to read what people are sharing. I enjoy logging in daily to see what familiar names are up to.

I would like to remind folks that if you have a name that is not real, please don't share that publicly.  A few of you might wanna edit your posts.

Mine is legitimate for the record, cajun version of Perique like the tobacco...

Having edge case names is making a lot of work for moderators of this site.  It's causing a slippery slope that isn't working.

To recap.  We require a real Sounding name

using your own name is fine

not using your own name is equally fine so long as it sounds real

admiting you are using a false name doesn't make your name 'real sounding'

If your real name is not real sounding (like mine isn't), then it would be better for the site if you can use your initial or a name that sounds more usual

Nicole Alderman wrote:Remember, the big rule of Fake Name Club is, "Don't talk about Fake Name Club."

That made me smile.  

r ranson wrote:My real name is most definitely an edge case.

I tried using it for a while, but I felt it was better for the site if I went back to using my initial.  If it really bothered me, I could put my first name in my signature.  

R Ranson; I am privileged to say I know your real name, and while respect you so much I would never reveal it now, or go against your wishes, but rest assured; your integrity is so sound that there is almost NOTHING you could do to be an edge case. So honest and trustworthy...

Like many, many others on here...I DEEPLY respect you no matter what you have for a name.

  I'm going to hope that those objecting to 'fake names' were referring to other sites and names that were silly and clever and cute but not 'real sounding?...at least that's how I'm going to take it

I think the real sounding name policy works quite well here and don't feel like using one's 'real name' or a 'real sounding name' has much effect on behavior judging from my past experience as a moderator.

Thank you James Freyr for your post...it expresses well the feelings of most of us here....

I really hope that folks here that do choose to use a real sounding name that is not their own do not take personally the beliefs of other good folks here in this thread who choose to use their real name. Everybody thinks differently, and no one needs to justify their reasons for whatever they choose. I hope everyone feels welcomed here at Permies. I value what people contribute here each day, and I look forward to tomorrow to read what people are sharing. I enjoy logging in daily to see what familiar names are up to.

Just as an addendum to my first post here, I would like to make clear that it is also the perceived necessity of anonymity that I don't like.

I respect and acknowledge the need for some to not use their real names. Pseudonyms were used for good reason back before computers were underpaid mathematicians literally doing calculations, let alone interconnected electronic devices.

I definitely don't despise people who choose to use another name just to feel safe in online communities.

That doesn't change my position regarding anonymity. Without the veil of secrecy, it would be harder to engage in the kind of predatory, or just plain unkind, trollish behaviour that most people are seeking to avoid when they assume another identity online.

That was the entirety of my point. I regret that people feel unsafe using their real identities online because others feel free to act maliciously online because of that veil of anonymity.

As a sidenote, many people I know use their first name and a middle name. It would sound a bit contrived were everyone to use that technique, but it should produce a real-sounding name in most cases.

Or invent a patronymic/matronymic. I would be Chris Christopherson, for instance. Boring, in my case,  but it works.

-CK

Chris Kott wrote:

I would be Chris Christopherson, for instance. Boring, in my case,  but it works.

-CK

Except that I would call you out for copying Kris Kristofferson's name.  And for the record, I don't think you should get to be Ernold Swarzenegger either :)

Yes, except that Kris misspelled it. Let's just gloss over the fact of who came first, shall we?

And Ernold Swarzenegger? I don't get why it's relevant.

-CK

We have built a certain flavor of online community here.  And part of the flavor is the "real sounding name" thing.  

This community is built for a handful of people that like this style.  It is a little odd that it has become so very massive.  

There have been hundreds of people that have expressed that they do not like this style.  We invite them to leave here and explore the greater internet where there are other flavors.   A few of those people have decided to comply with our style and stick around.   And a few of those have flourished and eventually joined the staff and now help with guiding people to working within this direction.

So if folks find this path to be unacceptable, I fully understand that they will be leaving us and report to the rest of the internet what an awful place this is.  Clearly we don't meet their standards.  Nor do we meet the standards of millions of other people.   We just meet the standards of a handful of people that has mysteriously grown to a much larger group.

I think that anyone that spends time here daily, or weekly, or regularly at any rate, has expressed their fondness for that particular flavour.

For me, it comes right behind chocolate. And peanut butter. And coffee. It might be tied for fourth with blueberry.

-CK

r ranson wrote:Having edge case names is making a lot of work for moderators of this site.  It's causing a slippery slope that isn't working.

This is bound to happen.
Reality is a singularity completely surrounded by an infinite ocean of fakery.
Now just imagine what would happen to society if people behaved like this in real life.

Reality is a singularity completely surrounded by an infinite ocean of fakery

"Part of the process of awakening is the recognition that the realities we thought were absolute are only relative.
We all know that reality is relative; we have known it since childhood."

-Ram Dass

Judith Browning wrote:

Reality is a singularity completely surrounded by an infinite ocean of fakery

"Part of the process of awakening is the recognition that the realities we thought were absolute are only relative.
We all know that reality is relative; we have known it since childhood."

-Ram Dass

Judith, my view differs from relativism in that what is real exists regardless of what isn't,
and the difference between real and fake is revealed by the results of our actions.

Just a reminder that not all real names sound real.  

Please choose a real sounding name.

If you get a name change request you don't fell you deserve, insulting the staff is a very quick way to prove that you are not capable of being nice and are therefore not a good fit for this site.

As someone with a not-real-sounding real name, I understand how frustrating this is. But the real sounding name policy does work to help keep this place nice.

That some people put that much energy into writing numerous irate emails demanding they be allowed to use their fake-sounding name on this site - while accidentally admitting it is a fake name - might mean there is something about this forum that they like and want to join in.  Maybe that something is what Paul calls the 'flavor' of this site.  That flavour is directly linked to our naming policy.  

Even though this thread is about real sounding names, I think this video explains why I think using real names are important, because for me, at least, I think real names provide a different mode of protection. Instead of directly protecting just myself, as I think a real sounding but not real name would, I think real names foster better behavior and relationships, because there is no longer anonymity to protect abusers and trolls. Equally so, I am aware victims are not protected when anonymity is lost, so, I understand and support people using real sounding names.

The Power of the Anonymous Online Troll by Sooz Kempner



From the video description:
"The dark side of social media is how easy it is to be anonymous. The rise of the online troll has led to a whole new kind of bullying and it's not always easy to know how to deal with it. Do you ignore them? Do you confront them? Is it all just harmless fun? Comedian Sooz Kempner has had her fair share of online trolls and believes there can be great power in not being anonymous."

Beyond this video, I think there is something to names and that they convey a bit of meaning to them. I am using the informal of my name, because the names I do use have specific meanings associated to them. If I do not like someone or am just getting to know them, I almost require my legal name to be used. But as a sign of trust here, I use the informal of name and let everyone call me by that. typically, in real life, it takes a few months to maybe a year before I think I know someone well enough that I will allow them to refer to me by the informals of my name.

Galadriel Freden wrote:

r ranson wrote:My real name is most definitely an edge case.

I tried using it for a while, but I felt it was better for the site if I went back to using my initial.  If it really bothered me, I could put my first name in my signature.  

I wonder, is my name too close to the edge too?  I've sometimes wondered;  I would be willing to drop to my first initial if so.

My sister's best friend is named Galadriel, pronounced with a soft 'g'.  Her brothers are Pippin and Meriadoc.  The boys don't go by those names.

Timothy Markus wrote:

Her brothers are Pippin and Meriadoc.  The boys don't go by those names.

Oh dear.  

The older I get, the harder time I have with my name.  It was fine as a kid;  kids are pretty good about remembering names, but now I'm an adult, new people just can't seem to do it.  I really do think that some people avoid speaking to me because they are embarrassed they can't remember my name.  Yes it's a lovely name, but it's just Too Hard.  I also have a difficult surname, but at least it's short!

I named my sons "normal" names, and they have their dad's surname, also "normal".