Win a copy of The Tourist Trail this week in the Writing forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Joseph Lofthouse
  • Jocelyn Campbell
  • Mike Jay
garden masters:
  • Steve Thorn
  • Dave Burton
  • Joylynn Hardesty
gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Greg Martin

Update on humanure 3 1/2 years.

 
Posts: 130
Location: Northern Wisconsin
6
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I realized my family of three has been using the humanure handbook system for a little while now. I previously had some problems with bulk and smell.

See this thread. https://permies.com/t/50882/Bucket-Toilet-week

I've stopped buying wood shavings two years ago. I now have a trailer and bring it to the local sawmill, with a $20 bill in my pocket. Once a year I get a trailer full, loaded with one scoop from a front end loader. The sawmill owner is very nice and has yet to accept the money.

"If you are using it for what you say, no charge," says he.
 
gardener
Posts: 6168
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
971
hugelkultur dog forest garden duck fish fungi hunting books chicken writing homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
How are your gardens growing with the use of the compost from your humanure?
What temps are you able to achieve in the humanure compost ?

I think it is very nice of the sawmill too, especially if they are set up to burn the sawdust for part of the plants power.
The mill I used to go to now keeps all their "left overs and waste" because they use it to provide over half of the power they use.
The owner actually apologized to  me when they did the conversion, I told him I couldn't be happier for his business would be able to make a better profit margin (previously he was only keeping the mill afloat with a 2% margin).

Redhawk
 
Travis Halverson
Posts: 130
Location: Northern Wisconsin
6
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Interesting about your sawmill. What do you use now?

I don't log my temps like maybe I should. I recall achieving and sustaining 155F during non-winter season. I've yet to keep a pile active past January during winter (upper midwest, USA).

So far, I've only spread year one compost around some 3 yr old fruit trees.

Do you use yours in garden beds? I did add some to a bed of garlic last fall. Not sprouted yet.  
 
Posts: 56
Location: Cape Town
15
forest garden tiny house solar
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We've also been using a humanure handbook style toile for our family of 5 for about 3.5 years (I guess closer to 4 years, now). We use waste straw as our cover material-- not perfect (straw everywhere) but freely available and our final product is high quality and heats up well. The quality of the compost seems excellent- wherever we use it, our plants thrive. We're conservative about usage, but recently used it in our new asparagus bed (where we won't harvest for another year-- so a two year wait time) and the asparagus are incredibly happy. We also do sometimes put vermicomposting worms in there once the compost has cooled down, as the water holding capacity of vermicasts is unparalleled (and water is the biggest issue where we are).

This year, I'm trying to get enough leaves from neighbours to see if that may be another option for a cover material. Otherwise we'll continue with straw!
 
Posts: 206
Location: South of Winona, Minnesota
19
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We've been using a humanure bucket system since 1982, before the "Humanure" book came out. Pine shavings that were previously used as packing material in the root cellar bins are added to the compost bin when the poo bucket is emptied about every 4th day. We dump the urine bucket on the regular compost pile. The year-old poo compost only gets applied to the corn patches in the garden, which is in a 4 year rotation. This compost is too high in nitrogen for fruit trees, at least in our soil/climate, and will push the trees into excess foliage production at the expense of fruit.
 
Travis Halverson
Posts: 130
Location: Northern Wisconsin
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Oh wow! Good to know, Larissa. I may not apply to the trees anymore. Excess foliage does what? Minimize sun and airflow?

I was considering doing some corn, or three sisters.
 
pollinator
Posts: 2247
Location: Kent, UK - Zone 8
175
books composting toilet bee rocket stoves wood heat homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Travis Halverson wrote:
I've stopped buying wood shavings two years ago. I now have a trailer and bring it to the local sawmill



We have used both shavings and sawmill sawdust. The results are TOTALLY different. The dust has much greater surface area, and is substantially more absorbent. Pine shavings seem to be too fluffy and don't do a good job in comparison. Like you we have collected cubic meter bags of sawdust in the past, although we don't have any humanure going at the moment.
 
pollinator
Posts: 306
Location: Victor, Montana; Zone 5b
66
hugelkultur forest garden food preservation
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
4 years humanure toilet user and have only used 1 years worth for garden use.

We use wood shavings for in toilet cover and straw for the pile cover-- I've found that a healthy addition of coffee grounds this last year makes the pile so much hotter! Mid winter temps well over 100F which I did not get with my old piles.
 
Michael Cox
pollinator
Posts: 2247
Location: Kent, UK - Zone 8
175
books composting toilet bee rocket stoves wood heat homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Daniel Ray wrote:4 years humanure toilet user and have only used 1 years worth for garden use.

We use wood shavings for in toilet cover and straw for the pile cover-- I've found that a healthy addition of coffee grounds this last year makes the pile so much hotter! Mid winter temps well over 100F which I did not get with my old piles.



We found that dust rather than shavings made the pile heat much much faster as well. Finer material - and pine shavings are almost waterproof!
 
gardener
Posts: 607
Location: SoCal USA
108
cat dog trees wofati composting toilet bike solar
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Joe Jenkins just released a new version of his handbook, it's on sale at Amazon and through his web site. I just got my copy in the mail yesterday so I haven't checked the changes but he states that several large sections were totally rewritten.
 
Travis Halverson
Posts: 130
Location: Northern Wisconsin
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Mark, I hope he does a youtube vid about it. He has good stuff there.
 
Larisa Walk
Posts: 206
Location: South of Winona, Minnesota
19
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Travis Halverson wrote:Oh wow! Good to know, Larissa. I may not apply to the trees anymore. Excess foliage does what? Minimize sun and airflow?

I was considering doing some corn, or three sisters.


The excess nitrogen pushes the trees into a more vegetative state rather than being fruitful, the same reason you don't apply manure to tomatoes for instance. Also, nitrogen-rich growth is more susceptible to aphids and diseases, and the tender new growth doesn't harden off as well for winter dormancy. We don't really add much carbon material to the bucket, other than TP, when it's in the house but add the wood shavings when the bucket is "binned". We have a separete bucket for urine so don't need to soak up excess liquid. We have also used sheep bedding, ground corncobs, leaves, and weedy clippings. But the shavings are a convenient used material that needs composting anyway.
 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 6168
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
971
hugelkultur dog forest garden duck fish fungi hunting books chicken writing homestead
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Travis Halverson wrote:Interesting about your sawmill. What do you use now?

I don't log my temps like maybe I should. I recall achieving and sustaining 155F during non-winter season. I've yet to keep a pile active past January during winter (upper midwest, USA).

So far, I've only spread year one compost around some 3 yr old fruit trees.

Do you use yours in garden beds? I did add some to a bed of garlic last fall. Not sprouted yet.  



155 is  proper temp for humanure in the hot cycle, it's for pathogen kill off.  When we were doing this method I had the human heap and that was then transferred to a "standard" heap for a 3 month cycle through, this reduced the amount of N in the finished compost.

I now own a chipper, I needed one for all the tree removal I was doing, it handles the finger sized twigs I can't use for wattle fencing or fires in the smoker.
I am working on a new experimental pathogen killing setup for septic tanks, this is in the second year of trials and after some adjusting of the biome in the tank things are looking great for use as a sub soil level nutrient system for vegetable growing.

Redhawk
 
pollinator
Posts: 324
Location: northeastern New Mexico
67
wood heat woodworking homestead
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Bryant RedHawk wrote:

Travis Halverson wrote:Interesting about your sawmill. What do you use now?

I don't log my temps like maybe I should. I recall achieving and sustaining 155F during non-winter season. I've yet to keep a pile active past January during winter (upper midwest, USA).

So far, I've only spread year one compost around some 3 yr old fruit trees.

Do you use yours in garden beds? I did add some to a bed of garlic last fall. Not sprouted yet.  



155 is  proper temp for humanure in the hot cycle, it's for pathogen kill off.  When we were doing this method I had the human heap and that was then transferred to a "standard" heap for a 3 month cycle through, this reduced the amount of N in the finished compost.

I now own a chipper, I needed one for all the tree removal I was doing, it handles the finger sized twigs I can't use for wattle fencing or fires in the smoker.
I am working on a new experimental pathogen killing setup for septic tanks, this is in the second year of trials and after some adjusting of the biome in the tank things are looking great for use as a sub soil level nutrient system for vegetable growing.

Redhawk


"I now own a chipper, I needed one for all the tree removal I was doing, it handles the finger sized twigs I can't use for wattle fencing or fires in the smoker. "
Okay Bryant you have my curiosity peaked, "Wattle Fencing?"
Brian
 
Travis Halverson
Posts: 130
Location: Northern Wisconsin
6
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
@Redhawk: Sounds awesome. I mix our kitchen scraps in with the bucket material. A lot of straw on bottom, sides, and top. Maybe it's a little less nitrogen since so much straw is included?
 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 6168
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
971
hugelkultur dog forest garden duck fish fungi hunting books chicken writing homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Wattle fencing is stakes put into the ground and branches woven between them, works great for fences since the wind can pass through the openings but keeps bunnies out.

In England, Scotland, Wales and Eire you can find houses that are "wattle and daub" constructions still being lived in today.
The wattle is the structure and the daub is the "cob" that they coat the wattle with on both sides, a fairly quick way to get a building up and occupied.

 The end wall shows two panels that are wattle.

Redhawk
 
Travis Halverson
Posts: 130
Location: Northern Wisconsin
6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I must do that to two sides of my woodshed. Keep some more snow out.
 
Posts: 5
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
For those that stated too much nitrogen in composted humanure will cause excessive foliage in trees at the expense of fruit, would this be beneficial with young trees when i am not trying so much to get fruit as i am trying to get them bigger?
 
pollinator
Posts: 190
72
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
That has been my experience. Lots of compost early on makes happy baby trees, and then back off when fruiting begins, except with peaches, they seem to thrive best with constant feeding. I just always make sure to feed just outside of the drip edge.
 
Bryant RedHawk
gardener
Posts: 6168
Location: Vilonia, Arkansas - Zone 7B/8A stoney, sandy loam soil pH 6.5
971
hugelkultur dog forest garden duck fish fungi hunting books chicken writing homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I always compost newly planted fruit trees for their first two years so they can get their root system well established.
When a tree is growing at the top the roots are growing an equal amount into the soil.
Since my goal is always to have strong healthy trees, letting them grow without the bother or nutrient expense of fruiting and developing those fruits seems like the best way to make sure they achieve my main goal for them.

Redhawk
 
pie. tiny ad:
permaculture bootcamp - learn permaculture through a little hard work
https://permies.com/wiki/bootcamp
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!