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Minimalist alternative to food preservation

 
Posts: 115
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connor burke wrote:Rather than preserving Foods it might be better to eat seasonally by eating fruit and such during the summer and eating only meat and fat during winter by doing that you could mimic our ancestors natural diet when we came out of the forest into the savannas. When we did this we evolved to be able to eat a keto diet or carnivore diet along with fasting and endurance running for hunting. In More Southern climates it will likely be better to eat fruit and such during winter when everything is green and eat Meats during summer when everything is dry.by eating a seasonal diet you be able to eat as much as you like during the green times and then lose weight during the dry times or cold times. Not to mention the healing effects of the ketogenic diet once you get into ketosis.

this is also aplicable to pauls 20 person household idea because preservation is really time/energy ineffecent to me, i would rather shepard a herd of 1000 cattle and feed anything i dont want to a pig goat cow or chicken.
 
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Food preservation seems inefficient until you see it done by pros.
Ten experienced cooks working together with good technique can pump out preserves with impressive speed (though I only ever see women from ethnic communities coming together to do this - a joyous occasion filled with laughter, song and gossip).

Food preservation is pretty good in terms of food security too.
A jar of pickles will not get sick, go rancid or need protection from predation. They can last for many years.

The pickled vegetable is energy efficient because a portion of the veg is transformed into bacterial protein.

Pickles don't burp methane either and the jars are highly recyclable.

I wouldn't buy meat from a roadside stall, however many folks are happy to pay a premium for home-made pickles.
Pickles also provide diverse gut-bacteria and a rare source of raw vegetables for the modern diet.

Best part about pickles is you can ditch the fridge/freezer entirely, which is some next-level energy independence.

A ketogenic diet isn't really a safe sensible plan, you risk kidney stones, gut problems, colon cancer, bad cholesterol and muscle loss.
Not to mention the carbon footprint.
 
pollinator
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The energy inefficiency of storing food is most pronounced when difficult things are stored in difficult ways. The canning of vegetables comes to mind. A whole lot of processing as compared to harvesting fresh or drying.

Many things pretty much preserve themselves if they are are allowed to mature. Things like corn and beans get themselves ready for storage. Some fruits like plums and figs are very easy to preserve dried. And some vegetables store quite well naturally. Things like potatoes, sweet potatoes, carrots, cabbage and squash.

Some things store quite well in the ground. So they are only a processing hassle if disturbed.

If you were to concentrate on the easy stuff, a great deal of things could be stored without much effort or energy input.
 
gardener
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I always thought of it as efficient. Making 5 gallons of deer chili and canning it takes less overall time than making chili 20 times over the course of a year. Same goes for tomato sauce.
 
pioneer
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The climate I live in produces good calorie- dense food for maybe 3 months a year.  I can grow greens, radishes, a few things like that earlier, but fall harvest is where the calories come from. Corn, potatoes, fruits, squash, nuts, all come in the late summer and fall. That leaves me a lot of time in the year. If I tried to follow the recipe of living on animals the rest of the year, then I have to grow enough food for them for the year, and preserve that.  Or, i could butcher them all before winter, and then I have to preserve meat instead. There is no free ride if you are trying to produce your own food, whether it's from animals or plants.  I don't feel any need to reinvent this wheel. I look to the people that lived in the depression, and see how they lived. They didn't learn how to survive from a book. They lived it. They had gardens, chickens, sometimes a cow or two, and they preserved food.  They canned, dried things, had root cellars, stored wheat. I think people would do well to follow that example.
 
master steward
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I think a mix of both techniques is good. Most of our berries we eat the day we pick them. Either raw or mixed up in smoothies. We never preserve peas, because the kids eat each and every one. Same with carrots. I'm okay with that! It takes a whole lot less work. And, they're getting the nutrients and calories.

But, once I get extra, I try to find some easy way to preserve it, rather than it just turning into compost. Apples get sliced up and turned into apple chips. Kale and nasturtium turn into chips in my dehydrator. Extra berries turn into fruit leather or frozen for winter smoothies. My lovage plant got big finally, and I dehydrated a bunch of leaves for winter soups, since the plant dies down in the winter and it's so good in soups.

This year, I accidentally grew way too many potatoes to eat before they rot. My garage and house are way too humid, and they sprout within months. I've got three garden beds dedicated to potatoes, and three that just volunteered from last years plantings. So, I'm pulling up those volunteers and eating the little potatoes. Sure, I'm not getting as high of a yield, but I'm also not having them rot in my garage, and I'm enjoying potatoes a month or two early.

It is depressing seeing just how much electricity my dehydrator uses. When it's on the low setting, it's  using 20 watts. That's like having 3 LEDs or one dim incandescent on. But, once I turn it up to 130 degrees and it's using that heater, it's using 200+ watts! That's not too bad if I'm only having it on for three hours to make kale chips, but it's pretty horrible when I've got it running for 24+ hours to make fruit leather!

So, right now, my motto is to use it fresh, unless (A) there is too much to eat, or (B) There's some preserved treat that we like, such as fruit leather or kale chips or jam. Those treats are also either really expensive or impossible to find that meat our dietary requirements--it has to be worth it for me to preserve it!
 
pollinator
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It sounds fine until you realise you have to preserve the meat as feeding animals over winter requires preserving their food.. And that diet here would kill, scurvy was a major problem and would be without preserves. We have no greenery from October through to May root veg can be stored with no "preservation" but anything else needs to be processed in one way or another, drying is not practical as our humidity averages around 80% so anything dried has to be done in a dehydrator and kept airtight. (beans and maize do not grow to maturity here) traditional winter diet was salted meat, pickled fish, peas, bread and pickled vegetables along with stored root crops.
 
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My approach has been to find the right balance between eating what is available with no preservation (or with root cellar conditions), and having small amounts of other foods that I preserve in different ways. The balance changes from year to year, but I like to can some things as treats or flavour enhancers to other meals (e.g. jars of tomatoes, bottled fruits), but most of my preserving is lacto-fermentation, and simple vinegar pickles, relishes, and jams, made in the English/Australian way that doesn't use water bath canning.

Pork can be preserved with salt and stored for a long time without any electricity use - small bits of bacon and dried sausages can then be added to other meals to add a lot of flavour and nutrition without much effort.

Lacto-fermentation is as easy and as time-intensive as making a salad, but is a way of enhancing the food as well as preserving it. Other ways of preserving foods cut down on meal preparation work too.
 
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A 70 minute time period to can corn, busting a bottle or having a cap fail soured me from canning. Maybe I’ll pick it up latter, but as long as the electricity runs I’ll be freezing. Now if I can just keep from unplugging the freezer!
 
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When I lived in a house with nice, big radiators, I would just lay tea towel across the tops of the radiators and dehydrate foods that way.  Works for mushrooms (broken into small pieces), herbs, apple parings for tea.  Almost no work, and no extra energy use b/c I need to heat the house any way.
 
pollinator
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Canning seemed like a big scary chore for me until I lived temporarily with a friend who puts up EVERYTHING.  It's so simple.  She just throws a pot of water on, throws some jars in it to heat up, packs the jars, puts em back in the water, and 20-30 minutes later (whenever her timer went off) takes em out and sets them aside.  When I learned that, for the most part, canning fruit can be nothing harder than packing a jar full of raw fruit, pouring water over it, and letting it process?  No pectin, no citric acid mixes, no sugar- that's all crap.  If I want a fruit spread?  I just cook the moisture out of it until it's thick and spreadable rather than buying factory products (pectin) or going through the trouble to create my own pectin.    Now for the berry harvest?  Just fill that jar full of raw berries; blue, straw, black, rasp, hucks, you name it- just pour the water over and can it!  On-demand unadulterated (aside from a short boil) fruit.  Nothing like plucking whole strawberries out of a jar in the middle of winter  Or emptying a pint of canned huckleberries into your pancake flour to hydrate it!

I have yet to pressure can but I've been meaning to try.  We seem to always have 2-3 freezers full of meat that never fails to get frostbitten before we finish it off, so dogs get fancy meals.  

We did just build a 6x8 walk-in outdoor oven that works FANTASTICALLY.  We just dried 100-150lbs of pork and organ meat in it in 1 day with almost no wood consumption!  That's gonna be the new way to go for us.  Right now I'm eating a garden-fresh stir fry featuring rehydrated dried pork; we put it through the blender as jerky then cooked it.  Comes out a bit like pulled pork!  I'm hooked!

edit; don't get me started in pickles.  I LOVE PICKLES.  Pickled carrot sticks seem to be my favorite, as well as pickled onions.  It's awesome to not have to rely on seasonal harvests to have access to a type of food.  It's awesome to have a jar packed to the brim with enough pickles to ride me a week, all for a maximum 5-10 minutes of chopping and packing veggies into it, topping it off with vinegar and a few choice seasonings, and setting it to boil for a bit.  Boof!  Instant deliciousness available year round!  And I need really acidic foods to digest properly (I do well on pure fruit but, alas, I don't live in the tropics), so pickles go with almost every meal I eat, especially grains or meats.

Honestly I see canning as a minimalist food preservation technique.  If you have the jars and lids, and you have a heat source, you have a way to preserve foods nad whole meals for years to come.  I'm just now polishing off my canned fruit stores I put up 3 years ago; 50+ gallons of crab apples turned into several gallons of crab apple butter (my absolute favorite canned butter), 40+lbs of wild plums cooked down into plum butter and jam, 150+lbs of peaches canned in slices and cooked into peach butter, 35lbs of strawberries in whole fruit, syrup, and butter, a few pints of blackberry syrup, a few gallons of wild applesauce, a few gallons of whole blueberries and whole huckleberries.... ah man.  When fruit's not in season and you don't buy it at the store?  This stuff is canned GOLD.
 
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I suspect that what's 'easy' and 'minimalist' will depend a lot on your location / climate.  For me, it is easier to grow potatoes and store them in my root cellar than it is to raise meat to eat through the winter.  Of course, I live in a dry climate with a long cold season, and potatoes grow well here, as do squash, carrots, parsnips, beets, and onions, all of which store well in the conditions we have.  Dehydrating things is pretty easy for us, as well - just cut them up and put them somewhere where they won't get dusty, and check back in a few days.  We wouldn't do very well wintering livestock here without putting a lot of effort into making hay and growing grain, so dehydrating and cellaring ARE the easy options here.  They're not the only options we use (we also can, ferment, freeze, and keep critters), but they are our go-to.  In a different climate, different solutions would probably make more sense.
 
steward
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Jen Fan wrote:We did just build a 6x8 walk-in outdoor oven that works FANTASTICALLY.  We just dried 100-150lbs of pork and organ meat in it in 1 day with almost no wood consumption!  That's gonna be the new way to go for us.  Right now I'm eating a garden-fresh stir fry featuring rehydrated dried pork; we put it through the blender as jerky then cooked it.  Comes out a bit like pulled pork!  I'm hooked!


Could you do a new thread just on this project?  I'd love to hear more and see some pictures.

I tend to dry things that make sense to dry, freeze those that make sense to freeze and can when it makes sense.  All of those choices are based on our conditions, preferences, equipment and capabilities.  When we do an applesauce canning party we'll put up 120-140 quart jars from 7 bushels of apples in 4-6 hours with four people.  Having the right gear makes it go faster but doing more food at one time and being efficient also really helps.
 
connor burke
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if my future mate wants to become a pro at preserving then that's all good with me but i only enjoy it in small amounts
my goal is mobility and minimalism not food security.
preserved pickles can go bad, will go rancid, and will need protection from predation and damage, living food self replicates and can also last for many years.
healthy well managed animals rarely get sick and if they do get sick i can eat it or a predator can eat it. ill be getting far more value out of it while it is alive in ecosystem functions.
if an animal dies from sickness without recovering it will be eaten by bugs, vultures, and other scavengers. i could even add some fungi inoculant to the corpse and establish some trees using the mulch created by the animals sun dried hide. large herds will protect themselves, i dont mind helping seeing as ill be working near/around them as they move anyway. "Big Bertha (17 March 1945 – 31 December 1993) was a cow who held two Guinness World Records: she was the oldest cow recorded, dying just three months short of her 49th birthday, and she also held the record for lifetime breeding, having produced 39 calves."
i wonder how old the oldest pig is? im so happy ecosystem function is a thing.
allan savory's method sequesters more greenhouse gasses than the cows put out, including methane. im fairly sure that ill have more of an impact if a manage a large herd rather than trying to build a tree planting operation.
livestock are even more recyclable including all the fertiliser they output, they also plant seeds via their manure.
livestock are fair easier to put into stores, if i live with a bunch of students or employees i can also feed the remaining meat to them. however many folks are happy to pay a premium for regenerative beef.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermentation_in_food_processing#Meat-based so all i need to do is eat a veriety of meats and ill be fine, especially if i eat them raw?
i can also eat veggies and such during the green times
Best part about eating meat fresh is you can ditch the fridge/freezer entirely, which is some next-level energy independence.
A ketogenic diet isn't really a safe sensible plan, im 18 and i plan to drink a gallon or more of water, ive heard gut problems go away. the keto diet,fasting, and carnivore diet have been used to treat cancer. there is no such thing as bad cholesterol and ive heard of more bodybuilders on the carnivore diet or keto diet than i have on a vegan diet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj_Bc9hdHa0
"Not to mention the carbon footprint." you mean the carbon negative footprint?
 
connor burke
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Dale Hodgins wrote:The energy inefficiency of storing food is most pronounced when difficult things are stored in difficult ways. The canning of vegetables comes to mind. A whole lot of processing as compared to harvesting fresh or drying.

Many things pretty much preserve themselves if they are are allowed to mature. Things like corn and beans get themselves ready for storage. Some fruits like plums and figs are very easy to preserve dried. And some vegetables store quite well naturally. Things like potatoes, sweet potatoes, carrots, cabbage and squash.

Some things store quite well in the ground. So they are only a processing hassle if disturbed.

If you were to concentrate on the easy stuff, a great deal of things could be stored without much effort or energy input.


my main goal is to manage ultra large acreages and teach people about permaculture and such so a carnivore diet will be the most applicable to me. cold adapted beasties in cold climates and heat adapted beasties in warm/hot climates. and again my plan is to eat seasonally until im sure the i can get the nutrients through what the animals eat
 
Trace Oswald
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connor burke wrote:if my future mate wants to become a pro at preserving then that's all good with me but i only enjoy it in small amounts
my goal is mobility and minimalism not food security.
preserved pickles can go bad, will go rancid, and will need protection from predation and damage, living food self replicates and can also last for many years.
healthy well managed animals rarely get sick and if they do get sick i can eat it or a predator can eat it. ill be getting far more value out of it while it is alive in ecosystem functions.
The pickled vegetable is energy efficient because a portion of the veg is transformed into bacterial protein. if an animal dies from sickness without recovering it will be eaten by bugs, vultures, and other scavengers. i could even add some fungi inoculant to the corpse and establish some trees using the mulch created by the animals sun dried hide. large herds will protect themselves, i dont mind helping seeing as ill be working near/around them as they move anyway. "Big Bertha (17 March 1945 – 31 December 1993) was a cow who held two Guinness World Records: she was the oldest cow recorded, dying just three months short of her 49th birthday, and she also held the record for lifetime breeding, having produced 39 calves."
i wonder how old the oldest pig is? im so happy ecosystem function is a thing.
allan savory's method sequesters more greenhouse gasses than the cows put out, including methane. im fairly sure that ill have more of an impact if a manage a large herd rather than trying to build a tree planting operation.
livestock are even more recyclable including all the fertiliser they output, they also plant seeds via their manure.
livestock are fair easier to put into stores, if i live with a bunch of students or employees i can also feed the remaining meat to them. however many folks are happy to pay a premium for regenerative beef.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermentation_in_food_processing#Meat-based so all i need to do is eat a veriety of meats and ill be fine, especially if i eat them raw?
i can also eat veggies and such during the green times
Best part about eating meat fresh is you can ditch the fridge/freezer entirely, which is some next-level energy independence.
A ketogenic diet isn't really a safe sensible plan, im 18 and i plan to drink a gallon or more of water, ive heard gut problems go away. the keto diet,fasting, and carnivore diet have been used to treat cancer. there is no such thing as bad cholesterol and ive heard of more bodybuilders on the carnivore diet or keto diet than i have on a vegan diet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj_Bc9hdHa0
"Not to mention the carbon footprint." you mean the carbon negative footprint?



What animals have you raised up to this point?
 
connor burke
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wayne fajkus wrote:I always thought of it as efficient. Making 5 gallons of deer chili and canning it takes less overall time than making chili 20 times over the course of a year. Same goes for tomato sauce.

i enjoy cooking and listen to podcasts and such while i cook so i dont mind the cooking part, preserving stuff rarely appeals to me.
 
connor burke
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Trace Oswald wrote:The climate I live in produces good calorie- dense food for maybe 3 months a year.  I can grow greens, radishes, a few things like that earlier, but fall harvest is where the calories come from. Corn, potatoes, fruits, squash, nuts, all come in the late summer and fall. That leaves me a lot of time in the year. If I tried to follow the recipe of living on animals the rest of the year, then I have to grow enough food for them for the year, and preserve that.  Or, i could butcher them all before winter, and then I have to preserve meat instead. There is no free ride if you are trying to produce your own food, whether it's from animals or plants.  I don't feel any need to reinvent this wheel. I look to the people that lived in the depression, and see how they lived. They didn't learn how to survive from a book. They lived it. They had gardens, chickens, sometimes a cow or two, and they preserved food.  They canned, dried things, had root cellars, stored wheat. I think people would do well to follow that example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPoJXQ_Hoss i prefer to look at tribal peoples. as long as there is a large acreage of wild food for the beasties the plants are able to recover before the beasties return, in addition the plants will also be fertilized by the critters manure so the food would be more abundant the next year. the locals of alaska are my favored example for cold climate survival.
 
connor burke
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Skandi Rogers wrote:It sounds fine until you realise you have to preserve the meat as feeding animals over winter requires preserving their food.. And that diet here would kill, scurvy was a major problem and would be without preserves. We have no greenery from October through to May root veg can be stored with no "preservation" but anything else needs to be processed in one way or another, drying is not practical as our humidity averages around 80% so anything dried has to be done in a dehydrator and kept airtight. (beans and maize do not grow to maturity here) traditional winter diet was salted meat, pickled fish, peas, bread and pickled vegetables along with stored root crops.


if you utilize reindeer and such you dont need to preserve food for them. you also dont need to preserve meat if you immediately eat everything or sell the remaining meat. scurvy is only an issue because of how carb metabolism works, once on a carnivore or keto diet it becomes unnecessary to store food.
 
connor burke
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Nicole Alderman wrote:I think a mix of both techniques is good. Most of our berries we eat the day we pick them. Either raw or mixed up in smoothies. We never preserve peas, because the kids eat each and every one. Same with carrots. I'm okay with that! It takes a whole lot less work. And, they're getting the nutrients and calories.

But, once I get extra, I try to find some easy way to preserve it, rather than it just turning into compost. Apples get sliced up and turned into apple chips. Kale and nasturtium turn into chips in my dehydrator. Extra berries turn into fruit leather or frozen for winter smoothies. My lovage plant got big finally, and I dehydrated a bunch of leaves for winter soups, since the plant dies down in the winter and it's so good in soups.

This year, I accidentally grew way too many potatoes to eat before they rot. My garage and house are way too humid, and they sprout within months. I've got three garden beds dedicated to potatoes, and three that just volunteered from last years plantings. So, I'm pulling up those volunteers and eating the little potatoes. Sure, I'm not getting as high of a yield, but I'm also not having them rot in my garage, and I'm enjoying potatoes a month or two early.

It is depressing seeing just how much electricity my dehydrator uses. When it's on the low setting, it's  using 20 watts. That's like having 3 LEDs or one dim incandescent on. But, once I turn it up to 130 degrees and it's using that heater, it's using 200+ watts! That's not too bad if I'm only having it on for three hours to make kale chips, but it's pretty horrible when I've got it running for 24+ hours to make fruit leather!

So, right now, my motto is to use it fresh, unless (A) there is too much to eat, or (B) There's some preserved treat that we like, such as fruit leather or kale chips or jam. Those treats are also either really expensive or impossible to find that meat our dietary requirements--it has to be worth it for me to preserve it!


paul uses potatoes as biomass for his berm "hugelkultur" are you able to keep them in the ground instead of harvesting them all at once?
 
connor burke
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Dennis Mitchell wrote:A 70 minute time period to can corn, busting a bottle or having a cap fail soured me from canning. Maybe I’ll pick it up latter, but as long as the electricity runs I’ll be freezing. Now if I can just keep from unplugging the freezer!

how do you keep unplugging it?
 
connor burke
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Trace Oswald wrote: What animals have you raised up to this point?

sheep, pigs, goats, and a chicken.
my grandpa owns a ranch and is the local butcher for the others. most of the animals i took care of were at my school via my vet sci class.
 
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connor burke wrote:if you utilize reindeer and such you dont need to preserve food for them. you also dont need to preserve meat if you immediately eat everything or sell the remaining meat.



An adult male reindeer weighs nearly 400lb. Say half of that is usable meat after dressing it, are you going to eat 200lb of reindeer meat in one sitting? Or hope to find a seller for 150+ lb of meat every time you want dinner? With no food preservation or refrigerator, living off reindeer meat that you butcher yourself sounds like it would be very feast-and-famine.
 
Trace Oswald
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connor burke wrote:

Trace Oswald wrote:The climate I live in produces good calorie- dense food for maybe 3 months a year.  I can grow greens, radishes, a few things like that earlier, but fall harvest is where the calories come from. Corn, potatoes, fruits, squash, nuts, all come in the late summer and fall. That leaves me a lot of time in the year. If I tried to follow the recipe of living on animals the rest of the year, then I have to grow enough food for them for the year, and preserve that.  Or, i could butcher them all before winter, and then I have to preserve meat instead. There is no free ride if you are trying to produce your own food, whether it's from animals or plants.  I don't feel any need to reinvent this wheel. I look to the people that lived in the depression, and see how they lived. They didn't learn how to survive from a book. They lived it. They had gardens, chickens, sometimes a cow or two, and they preserved food.  They canned, dried things, had root cellars, stored wheat. I think people would do well to follow that example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPoJXQ_Hoss i prefer to look at tribal peoples. as long as there is a large acreage of wild food for the beasties the plants are able to recover before the beasties return, in addition the plants will also be fertilized by the critters manure so the food would be more abundant the next year. the locals of alaska are my favored example for cold climate survival.



Tribal people don't have to follow Wisconsin state law. Basically everyone in my area hunts. So did their parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and on and on. The point being, people here know how to hunt. In any given year, approximately 30 percent of people get a deer that go hunting according to DNR stats. That means if you rely on hunting the only animal here that has an appreciable amount of calories, you are going to eat one year out of three.  You may get a few rabbits, but hunting is hard and food is scarce when it's -25 F. and snow is ass deep to a giraffe.  I'm not sure if you have tried it, but if you have, you know what i mean.  It's harder still when you haven't eaten because you didn't store any food, first frost can come in Sept, and always by Oct, and deer hunting season is in Nov.  If you don't store food for your domestic animals, they have starved by now.  

I think is great that you read everything about permaculture, and watch all the videos. A lot can be learned that way, but I'm not certain you realize how much work is involved in growing your own food and raising animals.  As you progress and start growing some of your own food and raising some animals, it becomes clear that none of this is particularly easy. I'm not sure if you have read them, but there are some really good threads here about how many people actually produce a substantial amount of their own food. There are a lot of obstacles to actually doing it.  
 
Jen Fan
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Mike Jay wrote:

Jen Fan wrote:We did just build a 6x8 walk-in outdoor oven that works FANTASTICALLY.  We just dried 100-150lbs of pork and organ meat in it in 1 day with almost no wood consumption!  That's gonna be the new way to go for us.  Right now I'm eating a garden-fresh stir fry featuring rehydrated dried pork; we put it through the blender as jerky then cooked it.  Comes out a bit like pulled pork!  I'm hooked!


Could you do a new thread just on this project?  I'd love to hear more and see some pictures.

I tend to dry things that make sense to dry, freeze those that make sense to freeze and can when it makes sense.  All of those choices are based on our conditions, preferences, equipment and capabilities.  When we do an applesauce canning party we'll put up 120-140 quart jars from 7 bushels of apples in 4-6 hours with four people.  Having the right gear makes it go faster but doing more food at one time and being efficient also really helps.



I've been meaning to.  Perhaps I'll try that now before bed
 
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connor burke wrote:
paul uses potatoes as biomass for his berm "hugelkultur" are you able to keep them in the ground instead of harvesting them all at once?



I could try keeping them in the ground during the winter, but we have a lot of mice and shrews. I fear many would get eaten that way. I might just try doing that with one of the potato beds. It's worth a shot!
 
connor burke
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Im hoping that if i need to ill be able to buy a walk in freezer and potentally modify it into a yachchal using all the snow.
i think that if i dry and freeze food via one of them i could reduce the workload by a fair amount .
 
connor burke
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"Tribal people don't have to follow Wisconsin state law. Basically everyone in my area hunts. So did their parents, grandparents, great grandparents, and on and on. The point being, people here know how to hunt. In any given year, approximately 30 percent of people get a deer that go hunting according to DNR stats. That means if you rely on hunting the only animal here that has an appreciable amount of calories, you are going to eat one year out of three.  You may get a few rabbits, but hunting is hard and food is scarce when it's -25 F. and snow is ass deep to a giraffe.  I'm not sure if you have tried it, but if you have, you know what i mean.  It's harder still when you haven't eaten because you didn't store any food, first frost can come in Sept, and always by Oct, and deer hunting season is in Nov.  If you don't store food for your domestic animals, they have starved by now.  

I think is great that you read everything about permaculture, and watch all the videos. A lot can be learned that way, but I'm not certain you realize how much work is involved in growing your own food and raising animals.  As you progress and start growing some of your own food and raising some animals, it becomes clear that none of this is particularly easy. I'm not sure if you have read them, but there are some really good threads here about how many people actually produce a substantial amount of their own food. There are a lot of obstacles to actually doing it."

welp i dont live in an area with snow that deep and i have little to no problem with working for/moving to a place where its easier to keep livestock. im fairly sure i could make a dehydrator that could dry large chunks of meat and hiring people or getting a wife is also a good option. ive said this alot but reindeer are awesome as a cold climate animal,they dont really need stored food because they will often just dig for it if the snow hasnt hardened. i dont intend to survive off hunting im not sure where/if i said that i only think of it as a supplementary food source. not to mention that your area sound great for building an ice house or yakhchal so that could be a fun way to build a freezer. hows the wind in your area i hear plains have plenty of wind to cool a yakhchal. i worked on a farm moving irrigation pipe through calf deep mud for almost 2 summers as long as my muscles arnt that sore ill be fine. as for those people that go deer hunting how long do they stay out there, im sure that if i ask around i can find/set up cameras to track where the deer go. i wouldn't mind fasting for a week or two waiting/tracking for a deer while i listen to podcasts and such. i think i remember lard being really cheap to buy and i work hard enough to get paid 15$ an hour so i may just end up going the ere route and buying my food. ill check them out do you have some links you'd be willing to send me?
 
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Nicole Alderman wrote:

connor burke wrote:
paul uses potatoes as biomass for his berm "hugelkultur" are you able to keep them in the ground instead of harvesting them all at once?



I could try keeping them in the ground during the winter, but we have a lot of mice and shrews. I fear many would get eaten that way. I might just try doing that with one of the potato beds. It's worth a shot!


ive heard onions or garlic will help keep them away too, flooding them out is also an option unless you want to buy dogs bred to hunt the lil ones.
 
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I am not too aure how one defines a minimalist in the context of food systems.
But to me it means solar dehydrator for mushrooms, herbs, spices, fruits, fruit leather.
Dehydrated+smoked fish/bird/mammal and also dehydrated seed-nuts/seed-grains/seed-legumes.

Root crops can be a bit troublesome to dehydrate, so maybe just air dry and then cool storage.

I mentioned dehydrated meats (mostly with some salt+fermentation+smoking).
We can also do something similar with milk ferment-drain-press-air dry/dehydrate.

We can also use animals to help us dehydrate our food too, put some bees to work to turn nectar/sap into concentrated honey (mead/kefir-soda/sweetener/etc).

Next instead of trying to fight the food decay process, I would work with it. Think wine/mead/cheese/koji-amazake/ketchup/pickles. Not made in tiny 1/4 gallon containers but 20x in 5gallon buckets or bigger.
 
connor burke
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S Bengi wrote:I am not too aure how one defines a minimalist in the context of food systems.
But to me it means solar dehydrator for mushrooms, herbs, spices, fruits, fruit leather.
Dehydrated+smoked fish/bird/mammal and also dehydrated seed-nuts/seed-grains/seed-legumes.

Root crops can be a bit troublesome to dehydrate, so maybe just air dry and then cool storage.

I mentioned dehydrated meats (mostly with some salt+fermentation+smoking).
We can also do something similar with milk ferment-drain-press-air dry/dehydrate.

We can also use animals to help us dehydrate our food too, put some bees to work to turn nectar/sap into concentrated honey (mead/kefir-soda/sweetener/etc).

Next instead of trying to fight the food decay process, I would work with it. Think wine/mead/cheese/koji-amazake/ketchup/pickles. Not made in tiny 1/4 gallon containers but 20x in 5gallon buckets or bigger.




my thoughts are that conventional tree crop farming is the most stationary/lease minimalist followed by food forests then conventional annual farming, then young permaculture plots, then stationary pastoralists then migratory pastoralists followed by migratory hunter gatherers then hunter gatherers that dont follow a set path and simply travel to where food is available.

minimalist food preservation would be food sun dried on rocks, stringing up a net so the food can dry in the wind/sun, set natural locations where food can be dried faster via the earlier means, then small scale solar dehydrators that have been built and distributed over a large area for "communal use" by anarchists and such, then larger scale passive food drying set ups, then mechanical dehydrators and such like commercial vacuum dehydrators.

methods of preservation wise would be drying, fermenting for short periods(3 days to a month or so), digging small storage pits in naturally cool locations or making those cold locations colder then larger scale versions such as artificial glaciers that take minimal power/maintenance followed by yachichals and commercial refrigeration warehouses.
the fragile and tech reliant nature of jars and such would make canning and such fall under artificial glaciers, ice houses, and commercial refrigeration to me

my focus is migratory and nomadic pastoralism with little to no infrastructure and only a few totally stationary locations where ill put as much infrastructure as needed.

as for eating meat i would try to only store food for about a week at the most while moving. i would try to have enough people/ meat eating animals/customers that i wouldn't need to preserve stuff
 
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A minimalist's alternative to food preservation = move to a region where one can grow food year around.

Ok, I'm being sarcastic, but it is something to consider. I moved to Hawaii and became food independent, and it wasn't an accident. I was purposely looking to create a self sufficient homestead lifestyle.
 
connor burke
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Su Ba wrote:A minimalist's alternative to food preservation = move to a region where one can grow food year around.

Ok, I'm being sarcastic, but it is something to consider. I moved to Hawaii and became food independent, and it wasn't an accident. I was purposely looking to create a self sufficient homestead lifestyle.



i 100% agree, thats why i keep mentioning reindeer. livestock are able to eat dry grasses or lichen in the case of the reindeer and such so as long as they have food then so will i
 
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Su Ba wrote:A minimalist's alternative to food preservation = move to a region where one can grow food year around.  



Bravo, Su! S'why we came to Galicia.
 
connor burke
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by the prior post i mean that i will likely handle colder and hotter climates via the livestock.
tribal pastoralists supposedly had the most calorie effect way to get food in extreme environments or otherwise by getting food via the animals.
living like them might allow me to work near the animals on permaculture projects by hand, while they graze so that it becomes a silvopasture/ agroforestry system.
 
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