Win a copy of Grocery Story this week in the City Repair forum!
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education experiences global resources the cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • r ranson
  • Nicole Alderman
  • Anne Miller
stewards:
  • Mike Jay
  • paul wheaton
  • Joseph Lofthouse
garden masters:
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Steve Thorn
  • James Freyr
  • Greg Martin
  • Dave Burton
gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Dan Boone

questions about almost a post

 
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
he is what i originally said:
I got obsessed with solar smelters a few months back and learned that its cheaper, more effective,and easier to use a normal set up. Hell even rocket stoves and rocket mass heaters dont work as well as the conventional blacksmithing stuff. If you want quality products just work with what you are talented in and use that talent to pay for a talented and experienced professional blacksmith to make something that would take you years to make in a few minutes or hours.


"Dan Boone wrote:
Yes, but this is a permaculture site.

We’re not looking for the fastest, easiest, most effient way. That usually involves unsustainable methods and unaccounted-for externalities.

The energy budget for modern kilns and forges is dismaying to permaculturalists. It doesn’t matter if you have your own or hire the work done cheap; you’re using a ton of fossil fuel.

There is a sustainable path using charcoal sourced responsibly, but it is laborious and requires access to enormous forest resources.

There are a host of technical challenges with solar forges, kilns, and smelters. But there are solid reasons for permaculturalists to be interested in such designs. "


connor burke: "im just saying that id prefer a tool that doesnt break when i need it. permaculture has ways to make charcoal and requires only as much wood as a desert or beach could provide not a forest. im thinking in terms of 1-20 people once you scale up conventional stuff becomes more applicable so going onto forums that have more experienced professionals may be a better bet than here on permies. just because something looks more eco friendly and economically viable doesn't mean it is. scale can do wonders for efficiency. take a chill bro and swim with the penguins via the wim hof method =)"

i was told to delete the nicest part because it came off as rude: take a chill bro and swim with the penguins via the wim hof method =)

wim hof used his method to run across death valley without food or water. the method is also used to swim in arctic waters where penguins are. penguins also migrate to the tropics. maybe i should have said "your post came off a bit dismissive and not nice i recomend you try the wim hof method it is very calming, especially when you become able to swim with penguins. ice cubes are not as effective as ice baths for calming down so i said take a chill instead of take a chill pill.

ive run into a lot of mods telling me to edit my posts when ive been being nice to rude people lately so ive gotten irritable. ima just leave this here
 
garden master
Posts: 2284
Location: West Tennessee
624
cat purity trees books chicken food preservation cooking building homestead
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Your posts were put on probation because they did not meet Permies publishing standards. Here are some links which provide clear information about the publishing guidelines for these forums.

https://permies.com/t/2296/nice
https://permies.com/t/17422/permies-publishing-standards
https://permies.com/t/7304/Leaving-room-peoples-ideas


connor burke wrote: take a chill bro


That’s sarcastic and commanding someone else to do something, which is not nice.

ive run into a lot of mods telling me to edit my posts when ive been being nice to rude people  



Volunteer moderators have requested that you edit some of your posts because they come across as not nice.
 
garden master
Posts: 3787
Location: Missoula, MT US Hardy:5a Annual Precipitation: 15" Wind:4.2mph Temperature:18-87F
1345
transportation forest garden tiny house books urban greening the desert
  • Likes 12
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
On permies.com, we have certain ways of talking with each other that are prefered, because they foster a community where gentle souls can talk.

"Taking a chill" implies that another person on permies is less than perfect, by making it seem like the other person is angry. I feel permies.com uses language that is kinder than what others might see elsewhere on the Internet, like Reddit.
 
steward
Posts: 28021
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
  • Likes 15
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
"take a chill bro" suggests that the person is currently not already chill.  It also suggests that you think of him as a "bro".  

So, this suggests that the other person is less than perfect and also suggests a relationship as a fact.   "The truth".  

So "take a chill bro" has two violations of our publishing standards.

I would like to suggest discussion of the topic rather than discussion of the people involved in the topic.  

And, finally, my experience with rocket stuff is that a rocket forge is far superior to a coal forge.

 
master pollinator
Posts: 3424
754
transportation cat duck trees rabbit books chicken woodworking
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My mother used to tell me growing up, "Two wrongs do not make a right", so even if a post gets by the moderator that may be irritating to a person, writing "take a chill pill bro", is equally not right. It does not even deserve a discussion on here.

As for the other aspect, there are two sides to that.

The first is, the Experienced Blacksmith had to start learning his skill somewhere, sometime, some place, so why not a Permiculturist? I am an experienced welder, but I encourage others on here to learn the skill because once learned, it will net people a skill that will help them, and save them a lot of money down the road. Sure they could bring it to me and I could weld it up better, in less time, but it is like the adage, "Give a guy a fish and he eats once, teach him to fish, and he will eat for the rest of his life."

The second part of that is, that mindset is a very slippery slope. At what point do you stop, and start doing things for yourself? Sure I could easily justify hiring people to do things because it is "quicker, and faster", but then I am denying new skills to myself. Generally in life, the best road to take is slower and longer, rather than quicker and easier.



 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

James Freyr wrote:Your posts were put on probation because they did not meet Permies publishing standards. Here are some links which provide clear information about the publishing guidelines for these forums.

https://permies.com/t/2296/nice
https://permies.com/t/17422/permies-publishing-standards
https://permies.com/t/7304/Leaving-room-peoples-ideas


connor burke wrote: take a chill bro


That’s sarcastic and commanding someone else to do something, which is not nice.

ive run into a lot of mods telling me to edit my posts when ive been being nice to rude people  



Volunteer moderators have requested that you edit some of your posts because they come across as not nice.


I very very rarely use sarcasm, that was not sarcasm.  (I ligit barely understand how that could come off as sarcasm.)
It would have been less abrasive to talk like im doing now, the reason why i didnt is because i find it takes far longer and it is very unnatural to me.
In many of those posts i felt that someone was being rude or not nice to me so i like escilated to a more noticeable degree.
I understand now that the rules of the forum are attepts to make the most palitible format for everyone.
The reason i even brought this up was because i got annoyed at the last mod that outright told me to delete my "take a chill bro" comment instead of telling me to edit it. It was also because i thought i had sufficiently dulled down my language  during the prior posts and was upset that my self control was considered insufficient to the mods.
Again i understand that yall are trying to make the highest quality content you reasonably can so ill try to keep that in mind in the future.
 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Dave Burton wrote:On permies.com, we have certain ways of talking with each other that are prefered, because they foster a community where gentle souls can talk.

"Taking a chill" implies that another person on permies is less than perfect, by making it seem like the other person is angry. I feel permies.com uses language that is kinder than what others might see elsewhere on the Internet, like Reddit.



I didnt remember/understand deeply enough the gentle souls part so i caused trouble for yall. Im sorry about that.

It came off as angry/ dismissive to me so i got upset.
While i dont like the phrasing on the less than perfect part, i can understand how acting accordingly would be good at preventing conflict.
Ive been on the internet sense i was four and had anger issues even then. So i often dont notice/think to edit my speech to contain as much kindness as this community aims to have.
my conversations outside the forums usualy start with arguing with a person that said something i consider to be inaccurate then  if the arguement wasnt too bad and enough ligit conversation was had ill descalate the conversation and end up with a internet "friend" at the end.
Irl this would be like physically fighting someone and then becoming a "friend" afterwards out of newfound respect from the fight. (Note this is how i stoped being bullied at school so im biased)
 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

paul wheaton wrote:"take a chill bro" suggests that the person is currently not already chill.  It also suggests that you think of him as a "bro".  

So, this suggests that the other person is less than perfect and also suggests a relationship as a fact.   "The truth".  

So "take a chill bro" has two violations of our publishing standards.

I would like to suggest discussion of the topic rather than discussion of the people involved in the topic.  

And, finally, my experience with rocket stuff is that a rocket forge is far superior to a coal forge.


I didnt consider him to be nice/chill so i didn't act as nice as i could have.
When i read/hear "take a chill bro" my interpretation is that the person is saying "your behaviour is coming off as abrasive and will likely result in escilation of this conflict, please calm down" and the bro part is interpreted as (im not your enemy / i have some level of respect or care for you so please listen/i want the "best" for you so please listen.)
As for the not perfect part humans are not perfect so saying bro is/can be a way to say (i "love" you, but you are not perfect/ are being stupid, a donkey, unreasonable, imperfect, ect) without causing a conflict.
As for the "suggests a relationship as a fact.   "The truth"." In this case we are all part of the same permaculture community/faction/group/species/family so saying bro suggests that you are likely similar and share the same/similar values thus reducing conflict.
Saying bro is often used by gangs because it is a quick and easy way to create a sense of community/kinship without sounding weak. This is important because conflicts are often incredibly fast and brutal. Said conflicts often result in death and or long periods of incarceration due to a prison system/government that is considered to be corrupt due to being run by the ever imperfect people (*insert zen insights about perfection*)
alternate ways to refer to a person instead of bro are often not aplicable to our culture/situation such as "comrade, brother daoist, sister daoist, Asian versions of bother and sister that are more commonly used how im using bro, a multitude of other versions in other cultures/languages,  ect"
Im probably missing a few other things but ill leave that as is.

"I would like to suggest discussion of the topic rather than discussion of the people involved in the topic"
In the case of the post/forum/sub forum i was in they were (potentially unintentionally) insulting me saying that i didnt know how much work homestreading and such takes.
Someone may have also told me to "shut up" to "go away" but i dont remember and dont like to "tattle" so again i donno.
Soo yeah i 100% agree with this sentiment and tried to redirect the conversation even in one of the (potentially) original replys that i posted/was told to edit.

"And, finally, my experience with rocket stuff is that a rocket forge is far superior to a coal forge."
Would you mind posting a link to your thoughts and such on this, because from what ive read ive gotten the impression that the fire was lower quality/harder to control resulting in lower quality products.
 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Travis Johnson wrote:My mother used to tell me growing up, "Two wrongs do not make a right", so even if a post gets by the moderator that may be irritating to a person, writing "take a chill pill bro", is equally not right. It does not even deserve a discussion on here.

As for the other aspect, there are two sides to that.

The first is, the Experienced Blacksmith had to start learning his skill somewhere, sometime, some place, so why not a Permiculturist? I am an experienced welder, but I encourage others on here to learn the skill because once learned, it will net people a skill that will help them, and save them a lot of money down the road. Sure they could bring it to me and I could weld it up better, in less time, but it is like the adage, "Give a guy a fish and he eats once, teach him to fish, and he will eat for the rest of his life."

The second part of that is, that mindset is a very slippery slope. At what point do you stop, and start doing things for yourself? Sure I could easily justify hiring people to do things because it is "quicker, and faster", but then I am denying new skills to myself. Generally in life, the best road to take is slower and longer, rather than quicker and easier.



"My mother used to tell me growing up, "Two wrongs do not make a right","
i agree with her, and act accordingly once ive calmed down. Often times im the the one who "trys to be the better man" (a phrase i consider to manipulitive, and thus cringe at. I also cringe at it because it just sounds cringy) even during the arguement(this is often only partial but later i calm down completely if the other person reciprocates)

"so even if a post gets by the moderator that may be irritating to a person,"

I was trying not to cause trouble for you guys, so i didnt try to report the other partys out of respect/ potentially unneeded/counterproductive empathy. Should i have reported the orther partys?

"writing "take a chill pill bro", is equally not right"

I wrote out a short "essay" on why i disagree with this statement above in responce to Paul's reply.

I neglected to add a potentially divisive responce here out of respect to paul/Paul's rules/the intent i felt behind the rules btw.
     (I REALLY REALLLY want to say it though)

"It does not even deserve a discussion on here."


...(was it you...it was you(2:29am conperitorial mania))........ i find that explosively upsetting, the reason i am upset is because i find that statement incredibly dismissive and rude.
 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Travis Johnson wrote: ---As for the other aspect, there are two sides to that.

The first is, the Experienced Blacksmith had to start learning his skill somewhere, sometime, some place, so why not a Permiculturist? I am an experienced welder, but I encourage others on here to learn the skill because once learned, it will net people a skill that will help them, and save them a lot of money down the road. Sure they could bring it to me and I could weld it up better, in less time, but it is like the adage, "Give a guy a fish and he eats once, teach him to fish, and he will eat for the rest of his life."

The second part of that is, that mindset is a very slippery slope. At what point do you stop, and start doing things for yourself? Sure I could easily justify hiring people to do things because it is "quicker, and faster", but then I am denying new skills to myself. Generally in life, the best road to take is slower and longer, rather than quicker and easier.


I find/i am told that it is better to learn from a multitude of sources in order to refine the students understanding. So when i "told"(read as recommended/asked/ impolitely suggested/ subtly recommended) them to learn from other people i wasnt saying to only learn from that group of people. And i am upset that you are insinuating that that was indead the case.

Here is a saying too "Jack of all trades, master of none, but oftentimes better than master of one" i also enjoy sayings, could someone recommend me to some places with more,rare ones,more versions please.

"The second part of that is, that mindset is a very slippery slope. At what point do you stop, and start doing things for yourself?"

I enjoy learning things and recomend that people learn new skills for the sake of becoming a more rounded human animal.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

"Sure I could easily justify hiring people to do things because it is "quicker, and faster", but then I am denying new skills to myself. "

Another strawman. Im not saying you shouldn't, what i do say is that those skills are best learned as a hobby or side hustle.*

"Generally in life, the best road to take is slower and longer, rather than quicker and easier."

I like Earlyretirementextreme.com one of my current dream lifestyles is to live as a hermit like shepard near a simi affluent small town that has a healthy distance from a hospital that could help me survive major injures with a smallish clinic that could treat more minor heath issues.

This is my current favorite plan for my retirement
 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This took me a few hours of typing on my phone to respond. I can see why moderating is hard for you guys. Im sorry for the rudeness ive desplayed here
 
master steward
Posts: 15592
Location: Left Coast Canada
3541
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Permies.com has strict publishing standards and curated content.  

If something is posted that does not meet those standards, then most of the time it will be removed.  No warning.  No explanation.  Simply gone.  

Very occasionally, the author may be given a chance to correct an error in the post.  However, this takes a lot of time and effort on the moderators part so they have to really think that the post is worth saving.  If a person responds poorly to almost-a-post, then the chances of them being given the privilege to save their posts in the future go down.

It is suspected that over 90% of humanity would have a problem with this level of moderation.  For them, there is the rest of the internet.  Permies is a place for people who are comfortable with curated content.  If we changed to meet the desires of everyone, then this place wouldn't have the flavour that makes it so special.  It would be basically Reddit, but Reddit already exists so we don't need to become that.

If you see a post that you feel does not meet publishing standards, you have access to a remarkably powerful button.  It looks like this: .  Use the button to say why you feel the post in question does not meet publishing standards and the STAFF will take a look at it.  It would help if you take the opportunity to read some of the requirements of this site - see the link in my signature "how permies works".

Escalating the situation by telling someone to chill... that ain't going to fly here.  
 
r ranson
master steward
Posts: 15592
Location: Left Coast Canada
3541
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

connor burke wrote:
The reason i even brought this up was because i got annoyed at the last mod that outright told me to delete my "take a chill bro" comment instead of telling me to edit it. It was also because i thought i had sufficiently dulled down my language  during the prior posts and was upset that my self control was considered insufficient to the mods.




If I saw a comment like that, I would have silently and immediately removed the entire post.

It sounds like you got a really nice moderator.  It might a good thing at this stage to thank them for giving you the opportunity to make the required change.  
 
r ranson
master steward
Posts: 15592
Location: Left Coast Canada
3541
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

connor burke wrote:
I didnt consider him to be nice/chill so i didn't act as nice as i could have.
When i read/hear "take a chill bro" my interpretation is that the person is saying "your behaviour is coming off as abrasive and will likely result in escilation of this conflict, please calm down"



This comment came across as abrasive and escalated the conflict.  

Worse, it made more work for the moderators who are 100% volunteers (except for Paul Wheaton who pays huge gobs of money to keep this site running).  It is nice to be respectful of their time.  The STAFF here do this because they love it but moderating can be a messy, nasty, icky, sticky, thing to do.  We would much rather be out there creating wonderful things, but instead, we donate our time to keep permies a nice corner of the internet.

If you think another post is not being nice, we ask that you do not take it on yourself to tell them so - now the mods have two posts to deal with.  Instead, please use the report button and wait.  The STAFF will look at it and decide if it meets publishing standards or not and what course of action is required.  
 
r ranson
master steward
Posts: 15592
Location: Left Coast Canada
3541
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

connor burke wrote:
"I would like to suggest discussion of the topic rather than discussion of the people involved in the topic"
In the case of the post/forum/sub forum i was in they were (potentially unintentionally) insulting me saying that i didnt know how much work homestreading and such takes.
Someone may have also told me to "shut up" to "go away" but i dont remember and dont like to "tattle" so again i donno.
Soo yeah i 100% agree with this sentiment and tried to redirect the conversation even in one of the (potentially) original replys that i posted/was told to edit.



We have something like 40 active moderators right now, and another couple of hundred that just pop their heads in from time to time.  The ratio of staff to user is huge for a site this size.  (Sending hugs and smiles to the other staff - thank you all for what you do!  It is appreciated!).  Even with this many staff, we don't read every post before it is published.  That's why we gave everyone access to the report button so they can use it if something needs looking at.

If you feel insulted by a post: use the report button
If someone tells you to shut up: use the report button

This isn't tattling.  This is bringing the issue to the attention of the moderators.
 
r ranson
master steward
Posts: 15592
Location: Left Coast Canada
3541
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

connor burke wrote:This took me a few hours of typing on my phone to respond. I can see why moderating is hard for you guys. Im sorry for the rudeness ive desplayed here



Reading through the posts you typed that met publishing standards, all this time could have been saved by using the report button.

The report button is not just for bad things - it's also a great way to tell the staff "hey, this is a great post, an apple would look really good here" or "hey mods, do you think this thread would fit better in the composting forum?".  

...

And as for the Bro issue - this is highly regional.  

Where I live, there's no good way to use the word "bro".  Bro is closely associated with race or crime here, and implies that there is a connection between the two.  It's pretty much up there with the N-word.  
 
James Freyr
garden master
Posts: 2284
Location: West Tennessee
624
cat purity trees books chicken food preservation cooking building homestead
  • Likes 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Many thanks and much appreciation to R Ranson for volunteering her time this Sunday morning to respond in this thread! You rock!!
 
r ranson
master steward
Posts: 15592
Location: Left Coast Canada
3541
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
 
Travis Johnson
master pollinator
Posts: 3424
754
transportation cat duck trees rabbit books chicken woodworking
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

connor burke wrote:"It does not even deserve a discussion on here."



You can read it anyway you like. The fact is, Paul Wheaton, owner of this forum has spoken, and there is nothing more to say about the situation. It is HIS site and can deal with issues as he sees fit.

Your situation is no different then a contested court case. Your statements were struck down by a lower court judge (A Moderator), you did not like the verdict so you appealed to a higher court, and ultimately it ended up being taken by the Supreme Court (in this case Paul Wheaton, who graciously decided to take the "case" and issue a ruling. Now you are trying to argue against the highest court in the land (Paul Wheaton; Owner of this site). Graciously again, a Senior Moderator, R Ranson...the equivilent of a judge on the circuit court of appeals is trying to explain to you why the Owner (Paul Wheaton, the equivilent of the Supreme Court) ruled as he did. She certainly does not have too.

But the court system alagory is weak at best, because this is not a democracy. Owner has a strong conitation because it does command respect. Paul spoke, there is nothing more to discuss, which I expressed as, ""It does not even deserve a discussion on here."

I am not a moderator, I am just dumb because you seem to like the popularity of this issue being discussed... and discussed...and discussed, and yet I am wasting some of my Sunday replying to you about it.

connor burke wrote:(was it you...it was you(2:29am conperitorial mania))........ i find that explosively upsetting, the reason i am upset is because i find that statement incredibly dismissive and rude.



Sorry, wrong guy, and misguided judgement upon a person.

I am just a dumb sheep farmer who has cancer who has not been able to sleep for the last four years of my life. I am up all hours of the day and night.

While you are free to judge me for that, I actually see it a benefit to this discussion because few people here have the issues I have. As the tumor on my pituratry (brain cancer) presses ever harder on my brain stem as it grows, it affects my sleep, my emotions, and my energy levels. To combat this, I am given high doses of medication that makes me EXTREMELY iritable, yet I have close to 3200 replies and posts on this site, and yet I seem to have a good repore here. I think a lot of that has to do with understanding how this site works, and when a moderator feels I posted something indifferent, I accept their judgement.






 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

r ranson wrote:Permies.com has strict publishing standards and curated content.  

If something is posted that does not meet those standards, then most of the time it will be removed.  No warning.  No explanation.  Simply gone.  

Very occasionally, the author may be given a chance to correct an error in the post.  However, this takes a lot of time and effort on the moderators part so they have to really think that the post is worth saving.  If a person responds poorly to almost-a-post, then the chances of them being given the privilege to save their posts in the future go down.

It is suspected that over 90% of humanity would have a problem with this level of moderation.  For them, there is the rest of the internet.  Permies is a place for people who are comfortable with curated content.  If we changed to meet the desires of everyone, then this place wouldn't have the flavour that makes it so special.  It would be basically Reddit, but Reddit already exists so we don't need to become that.

If you see a post that you feel does not meet publishing standards, you have access to a remarkably powerful button.  It looks like this: .  Use the button to say why you feel the post in question does not meet publishing standards and the STAFF will take a look at it.  It would help if you take the opportunity to read some of the requirements of this site - see the link in my signature "how permies works".

Escalating the situation by telling someone to chill... that ain't going to fly here.  


i addressed what i meant when i posted that and will try to avoid using it in the future. in addition to that i mentioned the penguins and such partly as a joke, partly to soften the comment so it didnt escalate by mentioning a critter that people think is cute/cool, and 3rdly i mentioned the wim hof method to create an association with myselfs and the wim hof method so that if the person has a good impression of wim or polar bear swimming in general then he might associate me with something positive further reducing any conflict. i apologise that it did not meet the standards of the forum and i have corrected the post.
 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

r ranson wrote:

connor burke wrote:
The reason i even brought this up was because i got annoyed at the last mod that outright told me to delete my "take a chill bro" comment instead of telling me to edit it. It was also because i thought i had sufficiently dulled down my language  during the prior posts and was upset that my self control was considered insufficient to the mods.




If I saw a comment like that, I would have silently and immediately removed the entire post.

It sounds like you got a really nice moderator.  It might a good thing at this stage to thank them for giving you the opportunity to make the required change.  



yikes 0o0.

to the mod who didn't immediately delete my post thank you. im sorry for getting annoyed at you, i've been coping with anger issues ever since i was a kid and i apologize for hitting you with the sharp end of that personal issue.
 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

r ranson wrote:

connor burke wrote:
I didnt consider him to be nice/chill so i didn't act as nice as i could have.
When i read/hear "take a chill bro" my interpretation is that the person is saying "your behaviour is coming off as abrasive and will likely result in escilation of this conflict, please calm down"



This comment came across as abrasive and escalated the conflict.  

Worse, it made more work for the moderators who are 100% volunteers (except for Paul Wheaton who pays huge gobs of money to keep this site running).  It is nice to be respectful of their time.  The STAFF here do this because they love it but moderating can be a messy, nasty, icky, sticky, thing to do.  We would much rather be out there creating wonderful things, but instead, we donate our time to keep permies a nice corner of the internet.

If you think another post is not being nice, we ask that you do not take it on yourself to tell them so - now the mods have two posts to deal with.  Instead, please use the report button and wait.  The STAFF will look at it and decide if it meets publishing standards or not and what course of action is required.  


i will make an effort to avoid creating/escalating conflict in the future and if i can de escalate conflict i will try to do so rather than bothering the mods and paul.
im thankful that yall do so, creating a welcoming community like this is really good for new people that stumble onto the site and will likely contribute a lot to getting us to the tipping point =)
ill consider that in the future. ive never actually used the report function on this site because i didnt want to create more work for yall.
 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

r ranson wrote:

connor burke wrote:This took me a few hours of typing on my phone to respond. I can see why moderating is hard for you guys. Im sorry for the rudeness ive desplayed here



Reading through the posts you typed that met publishing standards, all this time could have been saved by using the report button.

The report button is not just for bad things - it's also a great way to tell the staff "hey, this is a great post, an apple would look really good here" or "hey mods, do you think this thread would fit better in the composting forum?".  

...

And as for the Bro issue - this is highly regional.  

Where I live, there's no good way to use the word "bro".  Bro is closely associated with race or crime here, and implies that there is a connection between the two.  It's pretty much up there with the N-word.  



oh i did not know that 0o0.  wow thats intense, in my area lots of the kids i know like rap and such so bro is super chill 0o0. thats super wierd i didn't realize it had such a bad rap in some places, ill try to remember this in the future.
 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

James Freyr wrote:Many thanks and much appreciation to R Ranson for volunteering her time this Sunday morning to respond in this thread! You rock!!


yep, sending good vibes =)
 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

r ranson wrote:


"And, finally, my experience with rocket stuff is that a rocket forge is far superior to a coal forge."
Would you mind posting a link to your thoughts and such on this, because from what ive read ive gotten the impression that the fire was lower quality/harder to control resulting in lower quality products.



Here's something to get you started

https://richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp
https://permies.com/wiki/52142/rocket-mass-heaters-rocket-stoves

Rocket Mass Heater Innovators Event
part 1 - https://permies.com/wiki/39939/Podcast-Rocket-Mass-Heater-Innovators
part 2 - https://permies.com/wiki/39999/Podcast-Rocket-Mass-Heater-Innovators
part 3 - https://permies.com/wiki/40023/Podcast-Rocket-Mass-Heater-Innovators

Heating with less wood part 1 https://permies.com/t/74042/ and part 2 https://permies.com/t/74158/podcast-Heating-wood-part

https://permies.com/t/48651/rocket-mass-heater-cooker-smoker

https://permies.com/t/55957/permaculture-projects/cooking-wheaton-labs-rocket-stoves

http://www.woodburningstoves2.com/

https://richsoil.com/wood-heat.jsp

paul wheaton

paul wheaton rocket



...welp i just opened 13 new tabs on a window i nearly finished...
 
r ranson
master steward
Posts: 15592
Location: Left Coast Canada
3541
books chicken cooking fiber arts sheep writing
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

connor burke wrote:
i will make an effort to avoid creating/escalating conflict in the future and if i can de escalate conflict i will try to do so rather than bothering the mods and paul.
im thankful that yall do so, creating a welcoming community like this is really good for new people that stumble onto the site and will likely contribute a lot to getting us to the tipping point =)
ill consider that in the future. ive never actually used the report function on this site because i didnt want to create more work for yall.



Can I take this to mean that you are going to follow the be nice rule?

A simple yes or no will suffice.
 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

r ranson wrote:

connor burke wrote:
i will make an effort to avoid creating/escalating conflict in the future and if i can de escalate conflict i will try to do so rather than bothering the mods and paul.
im thankful that yall do so, creating a welcoming community like this is really good for new people that stumble onto the site and will likely contribute a lot to getting us to the tipping point =)
ill consider that in the future. ive never actually used the report function on this site because i didnt want to create more work for yall.



Can I take this to mean that you are going to follow the be nice rule?

A simple yes or no will suffice.



...yeees
 
gardener
Posts: 1266
Location: mountains of Tennessee
384
cattle chicken bee homestead
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Please do. It might be helpful to remember that everyone is expected to act like nice mature adults here. Always. No exceptions. No excuses. Staff & several others have gone out of their way trying to help you understand that.

 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Mike Barkley wrote:Please do. It might be helpful to remember that everyone is expected to act like nice mature adults here. Always. No exceptions. No excuses. Staff & several others have gone out of their way trying to help you understand that.



ill try, thats all ill promise. worst case scenario is that i get banned and end up living in the mountains eating squirrels and racoons. im thankful that they did so,i just dont like speaking in terms of absolutes because i dont trust myself or others that much
 
pollinator
Posts: 300
Location: Boston, Massachusetts
76
urban books building solar rocket stoves ungarbage
  • Likes 8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Connor, I have had a few "almost a posts" myself. I felt defensive, like you, and even struggled to understand just what the problem was. Figuring it out was (still is) illuminating about myself, and this site.

There's no need to be defensive here, since everyone is trying to be helpful, constructive, and sharing.
When I feel defensive (or sarcastic), it turns out I'm not doing enough to be understanding.
Understanding the writer, their post, the thread and how(if?) I can contribute to it; as well as understanding how diverse this community is in its people, places, experiences, knowledge, ideals, and dreams.
 
Dave Burton
garden master
Posts: 3787
Location: Missoula, MT US Hardy:5a Annual Precipitation: 15" Wind:4.2mph Temperature:18-87F
1345
transportation forest garden tiny house books urban greening the desert
  • Likes 5
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

connor burke wrote:
"And, finally, my experience with rocket stuff is that a rocket forge is far superior to a coal forge."
Would you mind posting a link to your thoughts and such on this, because from what ive read ive gotten the impression that the fire was lower quality/harder to control resulting in lower quality products.



We have an entire forum dedicated to rocket mass heaters. It's packed full of lots of good threads and many personal projects. Before digging around in that forum, I think reading this article on rocket mass heaters would be very informative. Then, I would suggest watching these two videos, too.

What is a rocket mass heater?



From the video description:
"I have answered the "what is a rocket mass heater?" question hundreds of times.   This is my attempt to make a very short answer.  Sure, there is a hundred times more info .... maybe a thousand times more info ...   but the function of this video is to give a quick idea of what it is.
"

How Paul Wheaton uses ROCKET MASS HEATERS to burn 1/10th the Firewood



From the video description:
"Paul Wheaton gives a brief tour of the famed Wheaton labs where we see two functional and highly efficient rocket mass heaters. PLUS, we see two very eco friendly bathroom designs that effectively capture our waste to turn it into a valuable resource."
 
connor burke
Posts: 117
Location: winston oregon
cattle forest garden greening the desert
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Dave Burton wrote:

connor burke wrote:
"And, finally, my experience with rocket stuff is that a rocket forge is far superior to a coal forge."
Would you mind posting a link to your thoughts and such on this, because from what ive read ive gotten the impression that the fire was lower quality/harder to control resulting in lower quality products.



We have an entire forum dedicated to rocket mass heaters. It's packed full of lots of good threads and many personal projects. Before digging around in that forum, I think reading this article on rocket mass heaters would be very informative. Then, I would suggest watching these two videos, too.

What is a rocket mass heater?



From the video description:
"I have answered the "what is a rocket mass heater?" question hundreds of times.   This is my attempt to make a very short answer.  Sure, there is a hundred times more info .... maybe a thousand times more info ...   but the function of this video is to give a quick idea of what it is.
"

How Paul Wheaton uses ROCKET MASS HEATERS to burn 1/10th the Firewood



From the video description:
"Paul Wheaton gives a brief tour of the famed Wheaton labs where we see two functional and highly efficient rocket mass heaters. PLUS, we see two very eco friendly bathroom designs that effectively capture our waste to turn it into a valuable resource."



ive watched those and many other videos but i have seen little on forging specifically.
 
Did you just should on me? You should read this tiny ad:
permaculture bootcamp - learn permaculture through a little hard work
https://permies.com/wiki/bootcamp
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!