• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic

vegans even 'sort of' - lets talk -  RSS feed

 
Deb Stephens
Posts: 398
Location: SW Missouri, Zone 7a
23
books dog food preservation forest garden goat trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Greta Fields wrote:Well, Carol, others....I sent a message to one vegan woman looking for a place to do permaculture. I have not found anybody else interested in doing a permaculture that includes wild animals. I have extra houses that people could live in for very little ($17 light bill + firewood) while gardening and creating a permaculture. There is a lot of freedom here for people to exercise creativity in planning a permaculture, to include wild animals, and exercising their plans.
I am interested in developing animal habitat in particular, because I have learned from living with wild animals how they struggle and compete for the ds,r food sources on this land. [Whenever my hazel nut grove is full of nuts, all kinds of animals show up to eat the nuts, and they also flock to fruit. However, I have found wild animals willing to share food -- a fact that most people are not aware of.
I would like to focus on wild animal habitat, and incorporating a few rescued farm animals into that habitat. I am already growing and storing some of my own food. I have glass stored for building a greenhouse. I just miss having other animal lovers around, so if anybody is interested, please contact me. there's no hidden agenda. It's what I say here, I just don't have anybody to work with. Ironically, it was being alone that brought me into contact with the wild animals in the first place. I have fallen in love with wild animals, which are very innocent and anxious for human contact, because they know their survival depends upon our good will.]
I am not interested in running a rescue operation, however, just creating a permaculture with animals sustained on the land too, not dependent upon commercial animal foods.


Greta,

I's been a year since you posted this and I am only just getting around to reading it--don't know how I missed it back then, sorry. I just wanted to say, that I completely agree with you that helping wildlife should be very important in any true permaculture. Not just because natural systems incorporate both animal and plant life, so permaculture as a kind of controlled natural system ought to as well, but because wild animal species are disappearing at alarming rates--in direct proportion to the spread of humans. As we displace them with our shopping malls, airports, highways and BIG AG monocultural systems, we owe it to them to put something back for all we take. Given that our species has spread like out-of-control cancer across the planet, that is a difficult, if not impossible goal, and means that EVERYONE who cares at all for animals should make a point of incorporating wild animal habitat of some kind into their permaculture systems. It can't be considered a fringe or "fun" sideline to the homestead plan, it absolutely MUST be an integral part of it. It should be a primary goal.

On our 75 acres (fortunately, located adjacent to many thousands of pristine national forest acres), we have cleared over 40 acres of native, but highly invasive eastern red cedars to increase bio-diversity on our limestone glades. We regularly cull diseased and unhealthy trees to allow newer understory plants to grow in the woodlands where they provide browse and cover for wildlife, and we plant native trees and shrubs like wild plums, hazelnuts, walnut and blackberries, etc. to increase the available food supplies. We pile up brush for winter roosting birds and shelter for rabbits, chipmunks and so forth. We never cut large, dead trees as those are incredible habitat for cavity-nesting birds, squirrels, flying squirrels, raccoons, bats and opossums. One of our long-term goals (when we can scrape together enough money) is to build a large pond for amphibians and as a watering hole in general for when the hot, dry days of summer reduce the creek to a dry, rock bed and animals are desperate for a drink. (In the meantime, we have lots of small pools and half barrels scattered around that frogs, birds and smaller animals regularly make use of.)

There are so many ways people can help wildlife even in a backyard. Many people try to scare birds away from their gardens, but that is really counter-productive. Just plant a bit more so you can all share. Planting crops that birds love will bring them in as helpful allies to combat insects. Adding a water feature like a small pool (without fish if you want to encourage amphibians--which you should, since they are in serious decline world-wide!) will also bring in small mammals, turtles, snakes and birds. Even back when we lived on a 1/4 acre lot in town, we had a recirculating waterfall/pool in the backyard that regularly attracted a local groundhog and was always a major gathering place for squirrels, rabbits and birds, looking for a refreshing drink or a bath. Every little bit helps.

By the way, Greta... did you ever find anyone to help out on your place? Where are you anyway? If we weren't so firmly ensconced here, I would be tempted to take you up on your offer of a place for sure. There must be others out there who feel the same.
 
Martin Addams-Smith
Posts: 1
Location: Germany
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Jeanine Gurley wrote:Loving the new vegan forum here at permies. I am not totally vegan but seem to be moving more in that direction all of the time. Animals are a necessary part of the growing equation even if it is wild animals that come through and fertilize the area.

We have a few hundred starlings that pass through my back yard once a year. When they leave EVERYTHING is covered in little bird poops. I don't mind though, it is free fertilizer and I'm sure they clean up a bunch of bugs and other critters at the same time. They have never been destructive to my plants.

I think they come here because of the very tall safe canopy of the old pecan trees and the small water features on the ground.

So far there have never been problems with them bringing in desease to my chickens so I think I want to continue to keep this a hospitable rest stop for them.

One of the main issues that I see in the vegan community is the concern about exploitation of animals. There are many ways that we can gain the benefit of the animal input in our gardens/farms while at the same time actually benefiting and providing increased habitat for the non-human animals around us.

I'm hoping that we can explore those ideas here.

I'm a recipe hog too - would love to hear some of your favorites.


Hi everyone. I´m new here , only found out about this site an hour ago. I have been Vegan for 14 months , loving it. I am a Head Chef in southern Germany ( I am English) , and am having nightmares about cooking meat at work. So much so that I have renewed my HGV truck licence , and am hopefully going to land a driving job next week.

Jeanine , sorry for gatecrashing your post , but I am not quite sure how the posting stuff works yet , and I just wanted to say Hi ! As you can imagine , my boss is not impressed with my Veganism , as I point blank refuse to butcher meat and fish. I have to cook it , as I still have to earn a damn wage and support my family. Great to see so many Vegans here.
 
Neil Layton
pollinator
Posts: 632
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
106
bee books forest garden fungi hugelkultur solar trees
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I thought I'd bounce this excellent thread.

I think the fairest description of me is that I'm seeking the route of least harm - which generally involves a herbivorous diet. For instance, I have no moral problem with picking a dead pheasant off the road. I do have related moral problems with wearing secondhand wool and leather as I do with secondhand products of the petrochemical industry, which is responsible for much habitat destruction and deaths of animals, both human and otherwise, or of the also obscene cotton industry, but I still think it's better to buy secondhand than new. I doubt I always get it right, but I'm trying to do my best in my present situation, which I want to improve, which involves going and planting a food forest, and trying to limit my impact further - and maybe do some good (and I'd love to find the right vegan (maybe vegan-ish) woman to come and do this with me).

I think the point of least harm is key to a response made by someone further up the thread, comparing pasture to monoculture maize. Yes, pasture will be more diverse than monoculture maize, but this is a permie website, so it's a false dichotomy. A forest garden, with a floral species count per hectare rivalling that of tropical rainforest, is substantially more diverse than pasture, while providing habitat for smaller wildlife. I agree with Deb Stephens above that incorporating wild animal habitat should be a primary goal, for several reasons.

I've given a lot of thought to the place of rescues in such a habitat, even toying briefly with notions like chicken moats (since largely ruled out). The fact is, I like nonhuman company, but exploitation is clear harm. Is it possible to work with nonhumans in a forest garden habitat? I ruled out chickens and anything larger than a chicken for the simple reason that their feeding lowers overall production in the habitat. I have (repeatedly) heard it said that keeping livestock increases fertility. This is only true when you feed supplements to "your" livestock. Otherwise, you are simply making nutrients more biologically available: you are increasing entropy, not adding to the system, and accellerating the rate at which nutrients are lost. You also need to consider the impact of supplementary feeding.

There are issues, at least on anything under several hectares, with fencing out large wild herbivores, which I haven't yet resolved.

To me, it's about relationships. Are the relationships mutualistic, commensalistic, parasitic or predatory? Nature doesn't recognise ethics, but we can, and there is a clear hierarchy of harm here.

I see a place for two species in a forest garden, which would enable these species to be themselves and giving them a safe place to live.

1) Bees. This is always a fraught subject within the vegan community, for good reasons. My own position is that, given that the common honeybee (Apis mellifera) is likely extinct in the wild, providing bees with a safe home and substantial forage is a mutualistic relationship, not a parasitic one, provided one is not stealing the honey. There may be questions relating to the possibility that keeping too many bees may mean they compete with wild pollinators, and I can't think of a good experiment to tests this.

2) Ducks. Again, this may be a mutualistic relationship, if done properly, in that rescued ducks have safe forage for potential crop pests, which keeps everyone but the pests happy. What I'm not sure about is the extent to which the ducks would compete with wild insectivores and gastropodivores, thus defeating part of the objective of providing wildlife habitat. I think more research is needed here, and this would be a good opportunity for someone with enough land. What one does with the eggs is anothe question. If done poorly, this relationship between us and the ducks could be parasitic or predatory, which to me presents a problem.

My own philosophy on all this is that you can't separate our exploitation of each other as humans from our exploitation of other animals or the natural world. You can also take a position on exploiting plants as well (which would tend to suggest a move towards fruitarianism, which I haven't (yet) taken). I think it is possible to enter into mutualistic or commensalistic relationships with other animals - ones that are not based on exploitation. What I think is important is not using the possibility of such relationships as an excuse for relationships based on exploitation, for food or otherwise.

I admit this is something I'm working on, and it probably shows in my posts, but to me permaculture is partly about healthy relationships.
 
John Weiland
Posts: 950
Location: RRV of da Nort
46
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
@Neil L. "..... you can't separate our exploitation of each other as humans from our exploitation of other animals or the natural world."

"Once, our species did live in stable harmony with the natural environment (and in some small groups it still does). This was not because people were incapable of changing their environment or lacked acumen; it was not simply on account of a holistic or reverent attitude; rather, there was some more enveloping and deeper reason. The change to a more hostile stance toward nature began between five and ten thousand years ago and became more destructive and less accountable with the progress of civilization. The economic and material demands of growing villages and towns are, I believe, not causes but results of this change. In concert with advancing knowledge and human organization it wrenched the ancient social machinery that had limited human births. It fostered a new sense of human mastery and the extirpation of nonhuman life. In hindsight this change has been explained in terms of necessity or as the decline of ancient gods. But more likely it was irrational (though not unlogical) and unconscious, a kind of failure in some fundamental dimension of human existence, an irrationality beyond mistakenness,.... a kind of madness." --Paul Shepard, "Nature and Madness". (excerpt from http://www.primitivism.com/nature-madness.htm )
 
Tal Halevi
Posts: 7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hey guys.

I can bet that very few of you (if any) are raw-vegans.

Here is the thing:

We (my partner and I) have just bought 1/10 acre in Northern Thailand, originally as either an investment, or building a house. It's only recently, when we've been exposed to the entire Permaculture idea.
We both are quite minimalists and are 99% on a raw-vegan diet (~80% fruit, ~20% vegetables, leafy greens and nuts); it means that we consume a... large amount of those on a daily basis, to say the least.

The question: how feasible is it to cultivate a food garden/"forest" that can sustain 2 raw-vegans like us, on 1/10 acre?
Optional: we might but an additional 1/10 acre just adjacent, which can make the area 0.2 acre.

Thank you so much for your humble help!
 
Neil Layton
pollinator
Posts: 632
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
106
bee books forest garden fungi hugelkultur solar trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm vegan but not raw, no. I keep considering it.

I think a lot would have to do with your climate, which I only know about in theory. Planting densities in Thailand would be something I could only guess about. I hope you can find someone on here trying this in your climate.

I do know that a tradition of what we call forest gardening has been practiced in the tropics for hundreds if not thousands of years. I know for a fact it happens in parts of Indonesia. I don't know about Thailand.

The regional sections of the forums (see http://www.permies.com/forums/f-34/asia and http://www.permies.com/forums/f-221/tropical-climate - the latter seems more active) tend to be less busy than many other sections, reflecting the site's definite European-North American bias), but there is clearly experience there. The books I've read have talked about temperate and Mediterranean climates.

I think it's a safe bet that you could get a lot of food off 0.2 acres in a tropical climate, but plant lists and planting densities are something others in your climate might know a lot more about.
 
David Livingston
steward
Posts: 3665
Location: Anjou ,France
176
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Neil have you checked out tree beekeeping ? http://www.naturalbeekeepingtrust.org/#!tree-beekeeping/c1yzj
Not sure about your comment about wild bees being extinct . Certainly there are ferals about all over . Modern beeks dont want you to know about them as it makes it more difficult to sell bees if you can also get them for free

David
 
Deb Rebel
garden master
Posts: 1802
Location: Zone 6b
187
books cat fish food preservation greening the desert solar trees urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Just found this forum area.

I am a medical vegan. This means I must eat the diet because of genetic cholesterol issues. I had four bad issues and the journey to today that includes veggie/vegan is about four years. (total trip, about seven years) I started out with meat reduction, (to no red meat) and pork just didn't sit well, and went to white meats (turkey, chicken, fish) and that got cut out too. The fake-meat-inna-box had issues with too much salt, but, it's also built on gluten to give a meat texture. That ended when the celiac was identified, and the cholesterol issues worsened. So no milk, eggs, other dairy (no cheese), and no more fakes. Because of decades of blood sugar regulatory issues I developed type II diabetes. So no more sugar, and that meant all sneaky sugar (including corn syrup) that was added to most processed foods (that are also usually hellaciously salt laden, and have some other additives such as malt sugar/syrup, honey, annatto, grape juice, which I'm all allergic to). So no sugars and no wheat/rye/barley.

I also had a do-or-die and managed to crash off and am keeping off 64# (over a third of my starting bodyweight). In the end, I don't care if you stir my food with the wrong spoon other than how much cholesterol did you add? Using hide, bone, horn, feathers, fur, wool, etc, doesn't bother me. I live with an omnivore who can eat anything and often does, and I don't begrudge him whatever he eats. The act of love is to prepare him a bacon double cheeseburger with all the trimmings on a toasted wheat bun, then clean it up to where I won't get contamination, and make my foods. That's life.

If you are totally off sugar (a cold turkey can take about a month and especially during then your sweet tooth will KILL you, it's really bad-this is one of the worst things for most diabetics, when they first start, especially type I.) and you are off gluten (takes about a year) you will have all your cravings die off. I still get hungry but I don't jones until it drives me insane over something I can't have anymore. I also lost my reflux which was 'volcanic' and sudden without any dairy. Losing all the weight, I rarely snore anymore. (spouse attests to that). I reversed the type II (according to doctor-I say it's just managed now into normal ranges without medication, it's not gone), my environmental allergies improved, and I don't have to go to the bathroom every 30 seconds (or so it seems) or at least once every two hours at night, because the stress is off my kidneys.

Back to main thread. Going straight from omnivore to vegan, you're not. A lot of people can't, just like diets, stick to or stay on it. Consider this a life-diet change. You need to ramp out. I suggest cutting your red meat out as step one. And cut pork, even bacon. Go to turkey bacon. Go to other white meats and if you eat meat every day, continue but cut back to the 3-5 oz recommendation for serving (the deck of playing cards size serving). Get it down to one serving a day (this will take 3 or so months, maybe 6 if you are a real hardcore meat eater). Now cut down to every other day. Stay there for 3 months. Cut to none. Reduce your milk and dairy consumption gradually as well as your eggs, those can phase out over 6 months. Pause at vegetarian. You have to retrain yourself to eat something else that 'chews' that isn't meat or meatlike. Yes you can eat the fake-meat-in-a-box, Morningstar Farms sausage patties are really good as are their fake chicken patties.

Oh, you're going to learn to cook. And eat legumes. Legumes are a good protein source, as are certain sprouts. As for the B vitamins, you especially need B12 and you do need B6. I embraced nutritive yeast flakes, though they are fortified, as a food additive to give a somewhat base-cheese (reminiscent of parmesan) and a nutty afternote (sort of peanut butter) to thicken stuff and make sauces. I got a coffee scoop (1/8th cup) and that is the minimum serving a day. I often put it into my nut milk and soymilk batches as I will consume at least one batch a day of both. Or use them to thicken sauces, stews, etc.

To get to fully vegan will take about a year of retraining yourself to eat other things. The need to 'chew' is an important one. Fresh leafy and other related greens can give you that. If you can drop those addictions (sugar and gluten) you will appreciate it at the end. I have an omnivore in house, they sample my food on occasion, and I describe how it tastes to me, as my tastebuds HAVE changed, and how he perceives it can be different. A few times he said I will not tell you my opinion because I know you have to eat this. If it tastes like that to me, or I can pretend a little, he'll leave me to it. By the same token, it's not hard to eat delicious food with variety that almost anyone else will eat. (may not be their #1 choice because they're meat-potatoes-gravy-white bread types, but).

It is a little harder because just like days of old, I have to plan ahead as some things take time to make (some of my vegan soybean based cheeses can take weeks, tofu takes a few days, vegan yogurt takes a few days, etc) and the shelf-life is a lot shorter (some stuff I need to consume within 24 hours, especially gluten free baked goods). So I have to cook more. Leftovers for the next meal are a GIFT as I can be that much lazier. If my spouse is growfing because he can't find anything to eat (and he has convenience food, assemble and eat or open package and eat) I will lay out what I'm preparing and offer to trade him. Sometimes then he will default to 'what I feel like making and delivering' and he shuts up about it. (vegan is not a punishment, it's just reminding him he's being lazy...)

Vegan is a choice, and it's not easy. Just like dieting to lose weight, it may take life changes. Now some can go straight, some can't stand the cravings that will kick in, and we're all too tempted by 'it's right there so let's eat it'. (raises hand, though I've learned NOT to anymore. Height of that was a month ago, a raised chocolate frosted donut I carried on a napkin 5 blocks and delivered to spouse, it smelled great and I didn't even want to taste the frosting. I watched him eat it with relish. No problems for me). My ramble just points out, that maybe a ramping into it might work better. As you retrain yourself and wean off the cravings, learn to make what you need to, and adjust, you can also purge the wardrobe and do the other parts needed to follow the full lifestyle. Myself, it's diet only. I'm here because I have to. I still have to watch it, go in regularly and have blood work to make sure I'm getting the nutrients I need and keeping things balanced. Plus a weight range to stay within (not too heavy not too light, and trim flaps or eat as needed to stay in a 10# range. It's easier than trying to stick to an exact weight)

I appreciate the recipe source as well, thank you for sharing. I also visit http://mayihavethatrecipe.com/ for vegan, kosher, and sometimes gluten free, recipes. If you subscribe they will send you warning everytime they post something and they have some years of recipes/blog entries to page through.

Now the rest of veganism, that is up to you. I use my wool and I wear leather. That's my choice. Most of what I source that way is post stream, from animals going to table or kept usually as small farmer (wool) and a byproduct.
 
Seva Tokarev
Posts: 79
Location: Minnesota, zone 4, loamy sand
3
bee food preservation fungi tiny house trees woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
May I jump in?

I am a half-time "vegan" for religious (Orthodox Christian) reasons. There are four major lents totaling between 16 and 21 weeks a year, and most Wednesdays and Fridays; roughly 180 days a year or more when diet excludes animal products, including diary and eggs, and most of the time fish (at other times, also vegetable oil and wine; and on a few occasions, there is complete abstinence from food.) Orthodox monks never eat meat.

The reason for fasting is, however, far from the idea that humans and animals have equal right. On the contrary, the humans are considered caregivers of the rest of creation, "a righteous man regardeth life of his beast". Originally, humans were supposed to eat vegetable food (Genesis 2:16), but after the catastrophe that was the Flood, "every moving thing that liveth" was allowed to Noah and his descendants.
 
Liz Gattry
Posts: 37
Location: West Coast, USA Zone 10A
books dog urban
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Mostly vegan here. I am pretty much a newbie at it. I stopped eating chicken a year ago, and milk and eggs about 5 months ago (though I just fell off the wagon out of laziness).

I'm working on ways to have a whole foods plant based diet, it just seems very difficult at times. I am currently gardening away to help reduce the amount of store bought veggies, but I'm having problems with even my basic diet. I know it can be done, but old habits die hard and when I work 45-48 hours a week I'm so exhausted I have problems motivating myself to not take the quickest way out. My current workload is a short term solution and I am saving money to buy a place with more land. At that point I'm planning on cutting down to maybe 20-30 hours a week or less.

I too find it strange that permaculture would look negatively at this as it all seems to be in the same philosophical vein to me. I am (trying to be) vegan for a healthier lifestyle for myself and the world. Permaculture to me seeks to produce food and basic necessities in a healthier more natural way. These two things seem to be hand in hand to me. Now I'm not against people raising their own meat and eating it in a sustainable way- the problem is that society does not do that as a whole.

On my land I plan on having chickens (and eating their eggs occasionally), bees, and maybe some sheep or other rescued livestock that would live out their full natural lives taking care of the pasture for me.
 
Deb Rebel
garden master
Posts: 1802
Location: Zone 6b
187
books cat fish food preservation greening the desert solar trees urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Liz, if you find work too heavy, try a weekly batch cook, that lets you sluff off the rest of the week. I'm a firm believer in that. A good stew or pasta bake can do wonders for making it happen. I also find it easier then to make a good sized batch for the work (the effort involved). Refrigerate or freeze stuff portioned out, and it will cut your through the week work to feed yourself.

 
Liz Gattry
Posts: 37
Location: West Coast, USA Zone 10A
books dog urban
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Deb Rebel wrote:Liz, if you find work too heavy, try a weekly batch cook, that lets you sluff off the rest of the week. I'm a firm believer in that. A good stew or pasta bake can do wonders for making it happen. I also find it easier then to make a good sized batch for the work (the effort involved). Refrigerate or freeze stuff portioned out, and it will cut your through the week work to feed yourself.



I think I'm just trying to figure out which recipes and foods I like enough to do that. I'm making a nice chili right now- so that should have me sorted until my next day off. Chili and salads! yay!
 
Deb Rebel
garden master
Posts: 1802
Location: Zone 6b
187
books cat fish food preservation greening the desert solar trees urban woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Liz Gattry wrote:
Deb Rebel wrote:Liz, if you find work too heavy, try a weekly batch cook, that lets you sluff off the rest of the week. I'm a firm believer in that. A good stew or pasta bake can do wonders for making it happen. I also find it easier then to make a good sized batch for the work (the effort involved). Refrigerate or freeze stuff portioned out, and it will cut your through the week work to feed yourself.



I think I'm just trying to figure out which recipes and foods I like enough to do that. I'm making a nice chili right now- so that should have me sorted until my next day off. Chili and salads! yay!


A good hearty veggie chili can do wonders indeed. Yes it takes time to work up a list of recipes that you like. Did you check http://mayihavethatrecipe.com ? I do like some of their stuff, and a few things you can just tweak into vegan really easily. I need gluten free and they sometimes have one that fits both vegan and GF.
 
Liz Gattry
Posts: 37
Location: West Coast, USA Zone 10A
books dog urban
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks for the link! I'm already findings recipes to try!
 
Deb Rebel
garden master
Posts: 1802
Location: Zone 6b
187
books cat fish food preservation greening the desert solar trees urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Liz Gattry wrote:Thanks for the link! I'm already findings recipes to try!


Glad to help. As my other half says 'happy grazing' and I will usually reply 'moooooo' ... I love him anyways.
 
Jane Weeks
Posts: 41
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I haven't yet read this whole thread, but want to say "hello" to all the vegans here. I became a vegetarian over 30 years ago and vegan about 5 years ago. My only stumbling block between the two was cheese. All I had to do was remind myself of the lives of dairy cows, and the taste for cheese quickly disappeared after I finally took the final step.

When I became vegetarian, I had barely heard of such people. It happened completely by accident. I attended a summer outdoor block party with long tables covered by the food that everybody had prepared to share. At one end was the "meat" and at the other were the vegetable/fruit dishes. (I don't remember what was in the middle!) That was it. The colours of the veg dishes were beautiful, they were crunchy looking and kind of screamed, "I'm healthy and deliciious." The other end was nothing but grey, dead flesh – the flesh of once living, loving animals: lambs, pigs, cows, chickens, etc. I never ate an animal again, and now I don't eat or buy new 'products' made from any animal part. I do what I can, but with a very limited income I have kept my old wool sweaters.

Permaculture and sustainable living makes this simpler: I grow much of what I eat and my property encourages birds, insects and animals to visit. I have only a small 1/4 acre property with an old house built in 1855. It's on a hill and I have a small pond at the bottom. Unfortunately the property is surrounced by beautiful enormous old Black Walnut trees which limits what I can grow, but I have loads of berries and three baby cherry trees (they tolerate juglone), plus herbs and the vegs that do grow. I also joined a local CSA last year, mainly because of the tomatoes – I love tomatoes! I freeze, dehydrate, ferment pickles, make jams and fruit syrups, pesto from wild garlic mustard as well as basil that I grow in containers, and I'm getting into more foraging now. I also grow basket willows (admit that I haven't made a basket from them yet, but use them for woven short fences around gardens & other things). There's lots more, but I don't want to get boring.

IMHO, permaculture and veganism are a natural combination!
 
Deb Rebel
garden master
Posts: 1802
Location: Zone 6b
187
books cat fish food preservation greening the desert solar trees urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Jane Weeks wrote:I haven't yet read this whole thread, but want to say "hello" to all the vegans here. I became a vegetarian over 30 years ago and vegan about 5 years ago. My only stumbling block between the two was cheese. All I had to do was remind myself of the lives of dairy cows, and the taste for cheese quickly disappeared after I finally took the final step.

IMHO, permaculture and veganism are a natural combination!


Welcome aboard, Jane.

I'm the medical vegan (so I eat the diet and use fur, feathers, leather, and wool) and, cheese.

I make my own 'cheese' from things like cashews, there are some surprisingly good recipes out there. You won't quite get the same melting (casein is the miracle that causes stretchy gooey cheese) but you can still have happiness...
 
Jason Hernandez
Posts: 14
forest garden tiny house trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello.

I have been a lacto-ovo-vegetarian since 2008. During that time, I have been curious about vegan, read a lot about it, and concluded that to make it work, I would either have to stay dependent on modern, mass food distribution systems, or be part of a community with a wider skill set than I have on my own.

But here's the thing: having a master's degree in biology, I have also learned a lot about evolution, human and otherwise. The nonhuman animal most like us is the chimpanzee -- and chimpanzees are omnivores, not herbivores. And looking at those human societies closes to our original ancestors, we never see pure gatherers, but always hunter-gatherers. No human culture in the world has ever voluntarily gone full vegan. I think this is a real, biological drive, not merely a preference driven by custom.

I also see some real distortions of science, sometimes crossing the line into deception, being promoted by prominent vegan personalities like Robbins. For instance, he compares the human gut length to that of a horse; but he omits the fact that the horse also has a caecum, whereas we humans have only a vestigial appendix, which cannot serve the same function. This is why horses can digest grass, which we cannot.

I find some of the most fascinating science on this subject is found in Africa: A Biography of the Continent, by John Reader. In his chapters on human evolution, he traces the divergence between ancient farmers and ancient pastoralists. Vegans are correct in saying that lactose intolerance is the original condition of humans and indeed all mammals. But every so often, a mutation arises in which lactase fails to turn off at weaning; and those who have this mutation are lactose tolerant. In pastoralist populations, there is positive selection for this mutation, and over time, entire populations developed which are quite capable of digesting milk without ill effect. In Africa, it closely follows the line between pastoralist tribes (in which 80% of people are lactose tolerant) and farming tribes (in which few if any are lactose tolerant). If you have consumed dairy milk after the age of five without being sick to your stomach, you are lactose tolerant. I have to say that because I have found that "lactose intolerance" is trendy among alternative health enthusiasts -- or at least it was in the 90s, before "gluten sensitivity" became all the rage.

None of this is meant to say that we should ignore the real issues around livestock farming today. The heavy use of chemicals and hormones, the concentration camp-like conditions of industrial-scale operations, the much higher fat content of domestic stock compared to wild counterparts -- all these are genuine problems. As for me, I can say that my reasons for going vegetarian had to do with the ecology of food, and issues of sustainability. Likewise, my reason for going to mainly non-dairy milks (though I have not cut out all dairy products). And I can also say that, having gone vegetarian for these reasons, I found myself awakening to some of the animal welfare issues raised by vegans, though these were not part of my original reason.

And I will also say: I eat more different kinds of foods now than I ever did as a meat eater.
 
Jane Weeks
Posts: 41
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Deb Rebel wrote:
Jane Weeks wrote:I haven't yet read this whole thread, but want to say "hello" to all the vegans here. I became a vegetarian over 30 years ago and vegan about 5 years ago. My only stumbling block between the two was cheese. All I had to do was remind myself of the lives of dairy cows, and the taste for cheese quickly disappeared after I finally took the final step.

IMHO, permaculture and veganism are a natural combination!


Welcome aboard, Jane.

I'm the medical vegan (so I eat the diet and use fur, feathers, leather, and wool) and, cheese.

I make my own 'cheese' from things like cashews, there are some surprisingly good recipes out there. You won't quite get the same melting (casein is the miracle that causes stretchy gooey cheese) but you can still have happiness...


Thanks, Deb. I make some cheezes, too. Use agar agar to set some. I also make a mean raw cheez sauce. They don't really taste like dairy cheese (as far as I can remember), but that's okay with me as I don't want to eat anything that pretends to be an animal product. Sometimes I make bean patties, but I don't pretend they're hamburgers.
 
Deb Rebel
garden master
Posts: 1802
Location: Zone 6b
187
books cat fish food preservation greening the desert solar trees urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
@ Jason Hernandez,

You have some very valid points. Humans evolved with the need to feed our brains and we usually do need that hard protein--but not anywhere in the quantities that a lot of people consume.

As you've mentioned, genetics can be a big issue (the lactose tolerance for ex). I am a medical vegan. My body has an issue with cholesterol and how it makes, breaks, and handles it. I had to cut my hard protein (meat) and related sources (dairy, milk, cheese, eggs) to cut my intake of cholesterol and control my levels. (and I have succeeded). As for leather, feathers, fur, wool, etc, I still use them. I am eating the diet for health reasons only.

There are two versions of vegan, medical and moral. Moral have other reasons why they refuse to eat meat or meat products, use hair/fur, fiber, skin (leather), feathers, etc. In that I respect them. Most vegans are moral.

The choice of what you eat and what you want to eat, should be based on your health first and foremost. Eat a balanced diet. Then look to the moral (vegan, kosher, halal, etc) and still remember, you need to balance your diet. During the journey I am under the care of a very good western medicine doctor that does believe in less drugs and more lifestyle to deal with getting and staying healthy; and I am regularly checked on where my nutrition levels are at; I am doing fine according to that. However, a lot of it has been find my own way because I'm beyond what most dieticians, nutritionists, and other specialists can deal with. And what is working for me may not work for anyone else....

That said I am also celiac and deal with gluten free. I wish it was a fad-bit. Even more I deal with gluten in the house, as my spouse can eat anything, meat, wheat, etc. Including I bake for him. It's all possible.

Permaculture is a broad array of ways to have less of an environmental footprint, and if you are able to fully go the route, leaning vegetarian will reduce the work and space you need to accomplish feeding yourself, with proper nutrition. Though there are a lot of ways to accomplish those goals, you have to find out what works for you (between your resources, time, inclinations, weather, health) where you are.
 
Deb Rebel
garden master
Posts: 1802
Location: Zone 6b
187
books cat fish food preservation greening the desert solar trees urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Jane Weeks wrote: Thanks, Deb. I make some cheezes, too. Use agar agar to set some. I also make a mean raw cheez sauce. They don't really taste like dairy cheese (as far as I can remember), but that's okay with me as I don't want to eat anything that pretends to be an animal product. Sometimes I make bean patties, but I don't pretend they're hamburgers.


I don't normally make bean patties because they want you to use wheat flour to do binding/texture or 'bread' them with crumbs to give them mouth feel.

I do make a totally righteous about 8 bean chili with TSP also.

It is whatever you need to make it happen. I transitioned off of meat and fakemeat over about two years, so I no longer need to eat something with a mouthfeel like burger or a cutlet. Cheesy is subjective. I just consider I'm eating alien critter cheese, and it's not going to taste like it came from a cow or goat. (that is not blue and purple tentacles in the brush by the koipod, that's Millie my milk-squid. She's mostly armless not harmless....)

Though I can get a parmesan sort of cheesy bit going and a sort of a peanutbutter noted cheese sauce going too. I feed some to my spouse who can eat anything so he can taste what I'm eating. Some things he says pretty darned good, and a few he has reserved giving me any comment as he knows I have to eat it (so if I think it is a acceptable substitute for Y and think it kind of-maybe-sort of tastes like Y, he won't argue).

 
Jason Hernandez
Posts: 14
forest garden tiny house trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Deb Rebel wrote:
That said I am also celiac and deal with gluten free. I wish it was a fad-bit.


Ah, but if you know you are celiac, that means you have had a medical screening for it and been diagnosed in that way. In your case it is real. But there are lots of people who claim to be "gluten-sensitive" without having been diagnosed celiac. In fact, there is even a term for it: "non-celiac gluten sensitivity." The thing is, there is evidence suggesting it may not be real. Here is an article about it: http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/05/gluten_sensitivity_may_not_exist.html
 
Deb Rebel
garden master
Posts: 1802
Location: Zone 6b
187
books cat fish food preservation greening the desert solar trees urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Jason Hernandez wrote:
Deb Rebel wrote:
That said I am also celiac and deal with gluten free. I wish it was a fad-bit.


Ah, but if you know you are celiac, that means you have had a medical screening for it and been diagnosed in that way. In your case it is real. But there are lots of people who claim to be "gluten-sensitive" without having been diagnosed celiac. In fact, there is even a term for it: "non-celiac gluten sensitivity." The thing is, it isn't real. Here is an article about it: http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/05/gluten_sensitivity_may_not_exist.html


If you THINK you might be celiac, DO NOT STOP EATING GLUTEN. Go to your doctor FIRST and have them do the tests. If you go off gluten BEFORE the tests are done, it messes them up. Big time.

Go in 'suffering' and let them do the tests. IF they come back positive, THEN cut the gluten.

I find that that little sentence 'produced in a plant/factory that also handles wheat' means ME. You'd be surprised where it hides. Especially when you are first diagnosed and healing up and learning, you are extremely sensitive.

Don't trust oats, unless they are tested and certified gluten free-they are the most likely alternate grain to be contaminated. Rye and Barley are also out, they contain gluten that will get you. Nestlé's Quik powder mix will get you. Some cheap parmesan cheese will have barley in it and you will pay.

I am hunting for vegan recipes, always, that also don't contain gluten. Or ones that I can tweak that way... 
 
Larisa Walk
Posts: 158
Location: South of Winona, Minnesota
8
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I am a self-diagnosed person with non celiac gluten sensitivity.  I don't appreciate being lectured that it isn't "real" as my body tells me that gluten isn't good for me.  Even with a very small dose of gluten containing food, my body reacts by stuffing up my sinuses completely within several hours - no obvious gastrointestinal effects.  I get the same reaction when eating casein (milk protein).  Fortunately I am able to eat oats without this reaction, as well as the other non gluten grains.  BTW, I work for a holistic MD who routinely tests for gluten sensitivity and could have done the test, but decided to skip the $400 cash outlay and do a 30 day elimination diet and challenge instead.  It all depends on whether one only trusts numbers on paper or if they will trust what their body's experience tells them instead.
 
Deb Rebel
garden master
Posts: 1802
Location: Zone 6b
187
books cat fish food preservation greening the desert solar trees urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Larisa Walk wrote:I am a self-diagnosed person with non celiac gluten sensitivity.  I don't appreciate being lectured that it isn't "real" as my body tells me that gluten isn't good for me.  Even with a very small dose of gluten containing food, my body reacts by stuffing up my sinuses completely within several hours - no obvious gastrointestinal effects.  I get the same reaction when eating casein (milk protein).  Fortunately I am able to eat oats without this reaction, as well as the other non gluten grains.  BTW, I work for a holistic MD who routinely tests for gluten sensitivity and could have done the test, but decided to skip the $400 cash outlay and do a 30 day elimination diet and challenge instead.  It all depends on whether one only trusts numbers on paper or if they will trust what their body's experience tells them instead.


I have many a food allergy, not just being truly diagnosed as celiac. I don't discount if you have an issue with a food whether or not 'official' testing was done. I paid the $ for the tests to confirm what was going on. Finding a food that you don't agree with is not fun no matter what it is. And I have a few really strange food allergies that never go on vacation, there is no sneaking 'just a little bit'.

I do agree that the tests quoted, are such a narrow scope, that it may still have returned wrong because of such a small number of test subjects even if it was very rigorously performed. (look up The Great Randi and the homeopathic 'memory of water' tests, he put up one million dollars against it, and in a true doubleblind test series, won...) I have been part of clinical trials and even in first phases they like to use hundreds; and full phase; thousands. I will agree much more work needs to be done to see what impact FODMOPS truly have. The article was interesting to read, but, I think there isn't enough testing yet on the subject, or a wide enough test series having been performed yet.

You have my sympathy and condolences if gluten seems to be an allergen, as it is EVERYWHERE. Further kudos if you have a non-contaminated oat source, I have hit that one often enough to avoid oats. Which is too bad as I really like oatmeal.

If I eat gluten I have the full assault launch. So there can be different levels of sensitivity, and since you react, you are taking steps to prevent eating your allergen. Bummer about casein, as that means no 'stretchy' and melty cheese substances. As I have mentioned, I have issues with genetic cholesterol so must avoid eating hard proteins (milk, other dairy, eggs, and meat) and take steps to ingest a LOT of omega3. Hence 'medical' vegan. If you accidentally stir my food with the wrong spoon, my worry is how much allergen or food I must avoid got mixed in (stirring it with meat 'contaminated' I can still eat it, stirring it with gluten 'contaminated' .. no.)

It is good on this forum and in Permies in general, that everyone can express their opinions, bring their information, and share...freely. Larisa, may you find your path and enjoy a healthy life, eating what you have to and avoiding what you must. If you were closer I'd cook 'ultra kosher' (aka gluten free) for you and pick you a nice fresh permie salad (I just found a new patch of small very tender Lamb's Quarters again) to boot.
 
John Weiland
Posts: 950
Location: RRV of da Nort
46
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
@Deb R.:"Bummer about casein, as that means no 'stretchy' and melty cheese substances..."

That's being slowly rectified and coming along nicely, however, in the vegan cheese world.  May not exactly duplicate the mammal milk version, but a worthy substitute.

http://itdoesnttastelikechicken.com/2015/01/23/melty-stretchy-gooey-vegan-mozarella/

https://cookingwithplants.com/recipe/stretchy-melted-vegan-cheese/

Word on the street is that this is just the beginning.
 
Deb Rebel
garden master
Posts: 1802
Location: Zone 6b
187
books cat fish food preservation greening the desert solar trees urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John Weiland wrote:@Deb R.:"Bummer about casein, as that means no 'stretchy' and melty cheese substances..."

That's being slowly rectified and coming along nicely, however, in the vegan cheese world.  May not exactly duplicate the mammal milk version, but a worthy substitute.

http://itdoesnttastelikechicken.com/2015/01/23/melty-stretchy-gooey-vegan-mozarella/

https://cookingwithplants.com/recipe/stretchy-melted-vegan-cheese/

Word on the street is that this is just the beginning.


Yes, I got the first recipe from Vedged Out, which is where they got the recipe from.... fresh this is out of the world.

I go through enough cashews a month that I buy 50# bulk from znaturalfoods.com ($375 USD and they ship US free) about every three months. They are wonderfood. I make cashew based cheeses, nutmilk, sauces, etc.

http://www.znaturalfoods.com/Cashews-Organic-Whole-Raw-50-lbs?cPath=13 and they take paypal. Current sourcing is Vietnam and the nuts have color, are oily, and have wonderful aroma and flavor.
 
Larisa Walk
Posts: 158
Location: South of Winona, Minnesota
8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I really don't mind the gluten-free diet as we've always eaten an assortment of whole grains so now we just skip a few.  I still do miss the flavors of cheese though - more than the melty texture thing.  The only commercially available ones I've found that don't contain casein taste awful and are not made of ingredients that I want to consume.  Would really like some blue cheese or any of the other strongly-flavored varieties.  As for gluten-free oats, we buy bulk oat groats and regular rolled oats that are processed by Grain Millers, Inc.  They are certified organic and I asked them about their facility.  They are thorough in cleaning grain and equipment to avoid contamination.  It works for me but if one were celiac you would probably want to obtain the certified gluten-free oatmeal.
 
Deb Rebel
garden master
Posts: 1802
Location: Zone 6b
187
books cat fish food preservation greening the desert solar trees urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Larisa Walk wrote:I really don't mind the gluten-free diet as we've always eaten an assortment of whole grains so now we just skip a few.  I still do miss the flavors of cheese though - more than the melty texture thing.  The only commercially available ones I've found that don't contain casein taste awful and are not made of ingredients that I want to consume.  Would really like some blue cheese or any of the other strongly-flavored varieties.  As for gluten-free oats, we buy bulk oat groats and regular rolled oats that are processed by Grain Millers, Inc.  They are certified organic and I asked them about their facility.  They are thorough in cleaning grain and equipment to avoid contamination.  It works for me but if one were celiac you would probably want to obtain the certified gluten-free oatmeal.


"Artisan Vegan Cheese" by Miyoko Schinner, has been a lifesaver. I bought it ebook off Amazon and have it on kindle/phone so I can take it with me when shopping for some of the ingredients. They also have new and used print books of it. https://www.amazon.com/Artisan-Vegan-Cheese-Miyoko-Schinner/dp/B00BUV8CZI/ref=sr_1_1_twi_kin_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1467751602&sr=1-1&keywords=artisan+vegan+cheese

Joyoung CTS-2038 Soypot https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BYMRCCM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ; Mine has been worth every penny.

They include a sample of Laurabeans soybeans from the Chambers Family Farm, you can also get those on Amazon or order directly from the farm (50# which is somewhat over 2 5 gallon pails full, with your discount code and flat shipping is $95 and will last you a bit. Organic and gluten free, really good stuff) http://www.laurasoybeans.com/50-Pounds-of-NON-GMO-2015-Laura-Soybeans_p_16.html

If you get the soypot, it is best cleaned IMMEDIATELY (I have a routine of cleaning it as I decant the milk and process the pulp) as that stuff will rapidly set up and stick on. I am making 3-5 batches of stuff in it a day. Get a container of Barkeepers Friend and non green non-scratching scrubbie pads to clean it with. I use BKF every 20 or so uses on the very bottom to get everything off well. Use 2/3 cup of soybeans or 3/4 cup cashews (presoaked 8-24 hours first). If you can tolerate rice (it is a great blood sugar spiker) add 1/4 cup plain cheap white rice as you charge the pot; to give body to your soy or cashew milk. I can make some things from cashew milk, the other like some of the cheeses I have to do as the book says to.

[If someone has a natural homemade version of Barkeeper's Friend, please share!]

Cashews, I faint and buy from Znatural, 50# organic for $375, lasts about three months.  http://www.znaturalfoods.com/Cashews-Organic-Whole-Raw-50-lbs?cPath=13

I put a few Laurabeans in the ground to see how they do here, growing my own would be okay if they can produce enough to make it worth their care.  Good luck with your cooking and eating, Larisa.
 
John Weiland
Posts: 950
Location: RRV of da Nort
46
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Had not heard of the Laura Soybeans before, Deb, but probably would be able to adapt Iowa beans to our location just to the north.  Thanks for this link....I'll probably buy enough for milk/cheese testing this year and plant the remainder next year.  Have also been using sunflower seeds which can be obtained locally for making cream cheese spreads.  Larisa, you are down in better hazelnut country and may be able to use these in foods as well....do you have hazels on site at your place?
 
Deb Rebel
garden master
Posts: 1802
Location: Zone 6b
187
books cat fish food preservation greening the desert solar trees urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thank you for the point to Grain Millers Inc. They do have a line of certified gluten free oats. I will work on finding their products. Thanks, Larisa.
 
Deb Rebel
garden master
Posts: 1802
Location: Zone 6b
187
books cat fish food preservation greening the desert solar trees urban woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John Weiland wrote:Had not heard of the Laura Soybeans before, Deb, but probably would be able to adapt Iowa beans to our location just to the north.  Thanks for this link....I'll probably buy enough for milk/cheese testing this year and plant the remainder next year.  Have also been using sunflower seeds which can be obtained locally for making cream cheese spreads.  Larisa, you are down in better hazelnut country and may be able to use these in foods as well....do you have hazels on site at your place?


I found out about them because my soypot came with a sample. The Chambers Family sells the majority of their crop to Japan for making soymilk, tofu, etc. The beans do work very well for that. They recently sent me an email with a picture of the 2016 plants in the field, showing the status of the crop. I have traded emails with them, and they said that the 2015 crop ran 58# to the bushel, and about 2080 beans per pound. They've had a bit larger but they are very consistently sized. They harvest during October and process and start shipping that season in November. And that their product should keep fully two years after harvest. I need gluten free and they are gluten free. Their rotation crop is corn.
 
Larisa Walk
Posts: 158
Location: South of Winona, Minnesota
8
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John Weiland wrote:Have also been using sunflower seeds which can be obtained locally for making cream cheese spreads.  Larisa, you are down in better hazelnut country and may be able to use these in foods as well....do you have hazels on site at your place?

We do have about 40 hazelnut bushes from Badgersett (planted in stages in 2003, 2007, and 2009).  They are producing enough now so that Bob and I can have a heaping tablespoon of roasted, ground hazels on our morning breakfast every day of the year.  We also have hickory nuts here and access to all the black walnuts we can use in a year, so we don't tend to buy other nuts except for sunflower seeds and sesame to round out our local options (we don't buy much of anything for that matter).  Occasionally we get butternuts from a neighbor which are the most wonderful nut to add to fruit smoothies.
 
Paulo Bessa
pollinator
Posts: 356
Location: Portugal (zone 9) and Iceland (zone 5)
13
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hello!

I have been in Permies since several years. My diet is mostly vegetarian, sometimes trending towards vegan, sometimes towards pisco-vegetarian. I don´t eat meat since 12 years, but that was first because I didn´t like the taste. Not because of ideological grounds. Though I am a strong environmentalist.

I was vegetarian for about 7 years and since 2011, I began eating fish and seafood more regularly. I drink on and off milk and love butter, but I hate cheese.

I was mostly vegan for about 2 years but was hard on my health at that time, so I stopped and returned back to a vegetarian diet.
Nevertheless I never had a vitamin/mineral deficiency. I attribute that to my ocasional eating of fish and clams. Still I eat vegan in most days.
I stopped being vegetarian when I moved to Iceland, because it sort of didn´t fit the "natural way" of living there (and also the climate was too cold), so I introduced fish.
The bulk of my diet is oat porridge for breakfast, and vegan mediterranean-style (or Indian cuisine) for lunch and dinner. Perhaps once a week, I cook fish.
I might sometimes eat yogurt and eat twice a week scrambled eggs.
I never use sugar or coffee, alcohol is rare. I seriously dislike fast food and processed food! My body is sensitive.
I have no gluten or milk allergy. Sometimes I do have gas after eating gluten or milk, but I also find things like pasta and milk nutritious for me.

I think my diet is very balanced. And I as buy organic and free range, I think I am also very friendly towards animals and towards the enrivonment.
I do cook with plenty of spices and use a lot of greens, like kale, carrots, salad, sweet potatoes, etc... I always cook with a tiny bit of olive oil

My diet is foremost based eating on instinct, whatever I want.
I am 35 and very healthy.

I am a permaculturist gardening since 10 years, and I practiced always vegan permaculture, sometimes with worms, but that because I never owned land.
Otherwise I would have enjoyed having some chicke, just for eggs, and honeybees.
I love growing a majority of my plant-based diet. I have grown nearly every possible vegetable, and I experiment a lot with lesser known perennial vegetables.
I dont use manure, compost and mulching sheet soil building, are my key methods.

This is my story! Merry Christmas!

 
Jane Southall
Posts: 85
Location: Limestone, TN
2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Just joined. plant based diet.  I honestly could live on wild foods, grains and seeds.  I do have a vegetable garden area.  I hardly eat the veggies.  It is more for kids. Have wild plants all over our acre.  Learning to grow grains this year, a bit anyway. 
 
Liar, liar, pants on fire! refreshing plug:
Complete Wild Edibles Package by Sergei Boutenko (1 HD video + 10 eBooks)
https://permies.com/t/70674/digital-market/digital-market/Complete-Wild-Edibles-Package-Sergei
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!