Austin Shackles : email anshackles"at"gmail.com.
Austin Shackles : email anshackles"at"gmail.com.
Austin Shackles wrote:Another point occurred to me - having built in an underfloor heating circuit and provided I can find a credible way to cool the water, it could make underfloor cooling in summer.
However, I also like the idea of underfloor heating. Now, I did wonder about running the rocket flues under/through the floor, but that might be tricky to get right, and also it's kind of a one-trick pony.
This leads me to wonder if I can use it to heat a water tank and use that warm water to supply more-or-less conventional underfloor heating.
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paul wheaton wrote:
Any chance you have watched the boom squish dvd?
Austin Shackles : email anshackles"at"gmail.com.
Austin Shackles wrote:OK, so the great and wonderful Burra is determined that the new place will have a rocket stove/mass heater, and that's fine with me because rocket stove is about efficient burning of fuel and as an engineer that appeals.
This leads me to wonder if I can use it to heat a water tank and use that warm water to supply more-or-less conventional underfloor heating.
...
So... anyone built anything like that? Pitfalls? Pluses? Stupid idea?
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Nicole Alderman wrote:
paul wheaton wrote:
Any chance you have watched the boom squish dvd?
What's the "Boom Squish" DVD? Is it one of the Rocket Mass Heater DVDs?
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Kyle Neath wrote:I’ve seen a few houses designed with water-based radiant floor heating that was hooked up to a wood boiler, so I don’t see why you couldn’t do this with a rocket mass heater instead.
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Austin Shackles wrote:And don't worry Paul, I'm well aware of closed systems that can go boom, I had a while firing steam locos on a preserved railway. I'm not trying to make a pressure boiler here, any system heated by the RMH/S will be open and vented
As for heater vs stove, Burra wants a stove. So that part is not real negotiable - and I like the idea; if you're burning the RMH anyway for heating, why not cook on the top of it at the same time?
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s. ayalp wrote:About cooling; what about sweating? I assume you won't like to walk on wet floor all summer long? You can't have carpets and there will be minimized air circulation- mold (unless you have trench in the middle of the room as mike eohler's underground greenhouse which obviously will remove cool air for the sake of circulation).
There should be great examples of cooling with cool water from persian (developed) and endulüs (perfected) architecture. Maybe they might inspire new designs?
Austin Shackles : email anshackles"at"gmail.com.
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First: the house is about 6x7m, (something like 20x23ft) with ground floor which will mostly be open plan
Satamax Antone wrote:
Why bother?
Kyle Neath wrote:
If you wanted to leverage the evaporative cooling, you could try running an open trough of water underneath the house (in a crawl space or basement) and install some vents in the floor. If you combine it with your attic fan, this would pull a pleasant stream of cool air through the house all day. We have quite a few old (1890-1910’s) buildings out here that were built on top of creeks for this purpose. One of my favorites even has a waterfall to encourage more evaporation (plus, let’s be honest — it’s rad to have a waterfall in your basement). I wouldn’t do that in a humid climate, but I’m assuming you’re in an arid climate similar to CA if you can mop floors in the summer just to cool down!
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Nicole Alderman wrote:
Satamax Antone wrote:
Why bother?
Maybe he likes warm feet in the winter?
I think this is a good question. If the goal is to have warm toesies, that's a bit different than wanting to use the floor as a mass, or even wanting efficient heating by having radiant heat coming up from the floor. These things can all go hand in hand, but they don't necessarily have to. So, what is the main goal/reason for wanting underfloor heating?
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Nicole Alderman wrote:
Satamax Antone wrote:
Why bother?
Maybe he likes warm feet in the winter?
Austin Shackles : email anshackles"at"gmail.com.
Satamax Antone wrote:Austin.
Just my two cent.
Why bother?
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Austin Shackles wrote:As for the whole mass/heat storage thing - if you look back at the initial post my point was that the specific heat capacity of water is very high, better than air or rocks or soil or whatever else; so my idea is to use an insulated water tank as a heat store for the Walker stove/RMH.
Austin Shackles wrote:A little more info for you
First: the house is about 6x7m, (something like 20x23ft) with ground floor which will mostly be open plan - there are going to be 3 small closed spaces, 2 for toilet and shower and a larder. The larder obviously doesn't want heat. There'll be a superladder (steep open stair) to the first floor, so heat from downstairs will rise naturally. I plan to insulate the first floor ceiling.
Second: we're not trying to cope with -40° winters. In fact I doubt the weather will hit freezing that often. I'm informed the climate is 9a, which I hope means something to y'all as it means diddly to me![]()
The bigger issue is cooling in the summer but I have plans for that - but the ability to circulate cold water in the floor would probably help.
To lead a tranquil life, mind your own business and work with your hands.
Mandy Launchbury-Rainey wrote:
Trust me, Austin, cooling will not be a problem. Your place looks like ours and in the high 30s low 40s inside is fresh and cool as the stone walls absorb the heat and realease over night very very slowly. Our coldest night rarely go below - 2 or 3, and the ground never freezes. We are also 9a ish.
Austin Shackles : email anshackles"at"gmail.com.
Austin Shackles wrote:
Nicole Alderman wrote:
Satamax Antone wrote:
Why bother?
Maybe he likes warm feet in the winter?
Well that is certainly a point in its favourGetting out of bed on a cold winter night and putting bare feet on a cold tiled floor is not high on my list of good life experiences!
As for the whole mass/heat storage thing - if you look back at the initial post my point was that the specific heat capacity of water is very high, better than air or rocks or soil or whatever else; so my idea is to use an insulated water tank as a heat store for the Walker stove/RMH. While the floor itself will also store some heat, that's not the major part of it. I'm in an excellent place to build this (see Burra's pic) as there IS no floor there right now. I have to dig some of the earth floor out in order to place a concrete slab, and in that case it's pretty easy to insulate under the concrete before laying it.
I can also feed heat into that from a solar water panel, even in winter if it's a clear day - I've had solar water heat before and it's well suited to the slow, non-intense heat you want for under-floor.
God of procrastination https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1EoT9sedqY
Travis Johnson wrote:
I think the absolute best sustainable way to power a radiant floor heating system is compost heat..
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Mike Dinsmoor wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:
I think the absolute best sustainable way to power a radiant floor heating system is compost heat..
I was just reading through a study on this and was surprised to learn that you would get almost the same about of btu's from wood that is composted as you would burning it. The trick is to keep all the heat created from your compost insulated so it doesn't escape to the outside air.
If I had the space, I would build a large enough shed that was insulated all around, fill it with the biomass needed for a whole winter then add a heat exchanger inside up towards the top where all the heat would be. Circulate the water to the house from there.
It has been done and it apparently works well.
Travis Johnson wrote:
Mike Dinsmoor wrote:
Travis Johnson wrote:
I think the absolute best sustainable way to power a radiant floor heating system is compost heat..
I was just reading through a study on this and was surprised to learn that you would get almost the same about of btu's from wood that is composted as you would burning it. The trick is to keep all the heat created from your compost insulated so it doesn't escape to the outside air.
If I had the space, I would build a large enough shed that was insulated all around, fill it with the biomass needed for a whole winter then add a heat exchanger inside up towards the top where all the heat would be. Circulate the water to the house from there.
It has been done and it apparently works well.
I have read about this as well.
The system I heard about, and thought about replicating was; a guy took a shipping container and put it in the ground and buried it with soil with only the rear doors open to the air. He then took tubing and lined the top of the shipping container with it, closely spaced. Then he filled the shipping container with compost.
As the compost heated up, that heat rose, but was insulated by the soil surrounding the shipping container. Water circulated through the tubing, got warmed, and then helped heat the home.
The beauty of this was, the man never had to fuss with tubes running through his compost. It was overhead, and out of the way so when he loaded, or unloaded his compost, he could sit on his tractor and just drive. And so I deduced out of ever compost heat idea I have heard about (to date) that was the best idea I have heard of. It might be somewhat inefficient because tubes were not directly in the compost, but apparently it worked well enough to heat his home nonetheless, and was super easy. Considering a shipping container costs about $2200, that is far cheaper then buying a boiler. The tubing you would have to buy no matter what you had for a compost pile system, and being out of the compost pile, a person could probably get by with Pex instead of copper tubing. That would save some serious money.
I have not ruled this out in my situation, but the only reason I have not done this is because I have a lot of logging equipment. Again this is me, and my situation only, but I have a super-insulated home, so I only need a few cord of firewood. In less time than I could build a compost heating pile, I can cut enough firewood to go me all winter. But for people with very little woodlot, or no logging equipment, for sure compost heat is a very viable option!
God of procrastination https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1EoT9sedqY
Kathleen Sanderson wrote:I didn't see anyone addressing the fact that he said the house is in zone 9a, which should only need minimal heat. It should have far more of the year in need of cooling, in fact. It's fine to play with something labor-intensive and failure-prone like under-floor heating if you really want to mess with it 'just because,' but in your climate, honestly, I wouldn't.
If I was building a house in that climate, and planning to use my heat source for cooking (presumably year-round), I think I would build a sun room -- a screened porch in hot weather, but close in the screened windows with glass for the cooler parts of the year. Attach that to the house, and put the heater/cook stove in it. With such a small house, all you would need to do to heat the house is open the door between the two spaces when you need heat, but in summer when you absolutely don't need extra heat in the house, close the door and keep the cooking heat out in the screened porch. In fact, unless there's a lot of cloudy weather during the coldest parts of the year, the sun room would probably provide most if not all of the heat necessary for such a small house.
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