Jay Angler wrote:
I went out to chop and drop the comfrey. I knew I would have to chop and drop my way *to* the comfrey because it's cleavers season, which was a job in itself.
Alas, as I worked my way towards my goal, I kept seeing brigades of bees all over the comfrey flowers. Yep, you know you're a permie when you delay your chop and drop goal so the bees can have a feast!
I do mine in patches, always leaving one or two patches in flower for them, and always hit them at sunset so the bees have already gone in for the night. The hummingbirds, too, would curse my name if I didn't make sure a patch or two flowering.
You know you're a permie when planting a simple garden bed requires juggling 6 to 8 seed packs as you carefully interplant a polyculture modeled on a forest ecosystem.
And you know you're a permie when your succession planting to follow the garlics, tomatoes, peppers and onions has started before the corn has even had a chance to sprout.
Also, you know you're a permie when part of your garden and landscape design is to put cat attracting catnip on your hugleculture beds because you know your tomatoes, cabbages and sweet potatoes are going to attract mice
...oh, and you really know you're a permie when you have trouble settling on which examples of yourself "complicating things beyond reason" to build soil, enhance biological activity, save yourself work and maintenance later, and reduce future heartache to share on a permies thread ;)
Tristan Vitali wrote:
Jay Angler wrote:I...oh, and you really know you're a permie when you have trouble settling on which examples of yourself "complicating things beyond reason" to build soil, enhance biological activity, save yourself work and maintenance later, and reduce future heartache to share on a permies thread ;)
"complicating things beyond reason" hahaha! Wow! Well, then, yes. Someone I know was encouraging me to do what is convenient for me at this stage in life...I took it silently and was later so bewildered! I definitely do things that are not convenient and seem to have a knack for even "complicating things beyond reason!" Glad it isn't just me!
"The one small garden of a free gardener was all his need and due, not a garden swollen to a realm; his own hands to use, not the hands of others to command." -Samwise Gamgee, J.R.R. Tolkien
Jay Angler wrote:I...oh, and you really know you're a permie when you have trouble settling on which examples of yourself "complicating things beyond reason" to build soil, enhance biological activity, save yourself work and maintenance later, and reduce future heartache to share on a permies thread ;)
"complicating things beyond reason" hahaha! Wow! Well, then, yes. Someone I know was encouraging me to do what is convenient for me at this stage in life...I took it silently and was later so bewildered! I definitely do things that are not convenient and seem to have a knack for even "complicating things beyond reason!" Glad it isn't just me!
Sometimes, "complicated beyond reason" is just what so-called normal people think when they don't understand the overall plot. If you can do "A" through "J" now and incorporate some of "S" through "W" while you're at it, you can stack a whole lot more work into the time and energy spent then having to do each lettered step, one at a time, eventually arriving at "Z" sometime in your 80s (if you make it that long!).
What's more, all sorts of pests, including those "normal people", will look at what appears to be total chaos, complicated beyond reason, and pass it all by, never understanding the value of what they're seeing. This can only be a huge plus when unscrupulous neighbors or worse come looking to find what you have available on five-finger discount ;)
Us permies appear to be complicated people to others, but really, we're just "systems thinkers" that rely on some very basic principals for everything...worth reposting them whenever one gets the chance:
Observe and interact
Catch and store energy
Obtain a yield
Apply self-regulation & accept feedback
Use & value renewable resources & services
Produce no waste
*Design from patterns to details
*Integrate rather than segregate
*Use small and slow solutions
*Use and value diversity
*Use edges & value the marginal
Creatively use and respond to change
* I believe these are the ones that make us and our actions appear complicated to "normal people"
Pearl Sutton wrote:Permaculture teaches "Use small and slow solutions" but I don't think this is what they had in mind!
I chuckle at the photo. Reminds me of me! My neighbours chuckle too, because I have a little tractor that can move stuff; but this my gym membership.
But you know. I sorta think the whole idea of starting from scratch (homesteading, permaculture, what my grandparents did) with the simplest tools and the will to succeed is kind of a big, fine idea. It's a message of hope; the belief that you have agency and can act, and maybe the system doesn't actually own you from birth to death.
You know you're a permie when you have a "flat rock" pile. And a "small rock" pile.
My son harvested enough rocks from the flat rock pile to line the inside of the coop run, because we don't want the Mom and Chicks to dig their way out.
Jay Angler wrote:You know you're a permie when you have a "flat rock" pile. And a "small rock" pile.
My son harvested enough rocks from the flat rock pile to line the inside of the coop run, because we don't want the Mom and Chicks to dig their way out.
Just moved the turkey poults out to the lower pasture yesterday. I was relying of the growth of grasses and forbes to "seal down" the bottom of the fencing, which worked beautifully in all but one tiny spot and their little cornish cross chicken leader found it. He led half of them under and into the upper pasture which hasn't been mowed. They were out there this afternoon screaming for papa, lost in the 3 foot tall grasses with the giant "mean geese" on the prowl.
Poor little guys
Since rocks in the pasture are already a bane of my (and my scythe's) existence, we generally use willow as ground-staples to affix the bottoms of the fences. If allowed to root and stay put for a few years, it slowly becomes a hedgeline of its own entangled in the fencing. Works out quite nicely
When sorting out your sponge bag for a rare overnight journey, you find, along with the random sewing kits and nail files, a rolled up piece of tissue with an unknown seed, and another folded paper with seed labelled 'Sharpo Mira'.
I wonder how long true potato seed remains viable?
You know you’re a permie when you don’t plant annuals in the oldest vegetable garden anymore because there is no room, and anyway, the rapidly growing self-sown peach tree is casting too much shade on the north end, and you realize that it is now the perfect place for nettles(!) and raspberries.
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. -Proverbs 4:7
Nancy Reading wrote:When sorting out your sponge bag for a rare overnight journey, you find, along with the random sewing kits and nail files, a rolled up piece of tissue with an unknown seed, and another folded paper with seed labelled 'Sharpo Mira'.
I wonder how long true potato seed remains viable?
How exciting! Gardening Know-How have an article "What Is True Potato Seed: Learn About Potato Seed Growing" and it sounds like you may treat the potato fruit like tomato fruit for seed saving?
--
"Whitewashed Hope: A Message from 10+ Indigenous Leaders and Organizations"
https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/whitewashed-hope-message-10-indigenous-leaders-and-organizations
Nancy Reading
steward and tree herder
Posts: 8509
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland. Nearly 70 inches rain a year
When you contemplate stealing other people's weeds!
I came across this non-stinging nettle but resisted the temptation to dig it up from around the pond in the grounds of a country house hotel. I don't think I've seen a nettle where you don't get stung taking the leaf like this. Probably this is Urtica galeopsifolia and I'm regretting now not digging a tiny bit up! The leaves are a little narrower than stinging nettle normally is, but otherwise it looks identical at a glace.
(In case you are wondering the rubbish in my hand is....rubbish, picked up during my walk around the grounds, I couldn't resist collecting litter up to clear the place a bit, as I found it distressing.)
I have a spider squatting in the bathroom at the corner of the counter. It has a small little web that I'm happy to ignore.
However, we've also had a serious outbreak of fruit flies due to all the fruit we've been bringing inside to process (I'm beginning to see some benefits of an outdoor kitchen!)
You know you're a permie when you whack a fruit fly that's climbing the mirror, then carefully pick up the corpse and drop it on the spider's web! Spider startled at first, then ran out and grabbed the prize!
... right before a hurricane you spend a few hours digging up a large part of yard to throw cowpeas in so you don't have to mow it all summer. Then on Labor Day weekend you pick a large batch of delicious purple hulls peas. Less lawn, more food.
... you save dryer lint & add it to the food scraps to be buried in the garden to feed the soil critters. Don't worry. I don't own clothes made of synthetic materials except a few specialty items used for backpacking. No worms were poisoned in the making of this post.
Argue for your limitations and they are yours forever.
Sigh. You know you are a crappy permie when you have an 18 inch nail puller in the dirty dishes pile. Has to do with how bad squash you forget about melt onto the concrete floor of the garage, and how serious of a scraping tool you need to use to get it cleaned up.
A proper permie would know what their squash is up to!
Yuk.
And a dead mouse in it all too, just because.
On the good side, the three other squash that were left are all in great shape, and the canner ran last night and will be running again very soon today. They stored a year! I kept their seeds, you know how I am.... :D
Mike: Hot pink, so I can find them in the deep grass. Purple didn't show up well enough, that was my first choice :D
You know you are a permie when you have to just assume you will drop tools in excess vegetation, and proactively take steps to mitigate the amount of chaos it causes to lose tools. :D
Jane: HA! I still can't grow a zucchini in this climate! It's pathetic :D
I DO have enough heirloom yellow cherry tomatoes to drown in though!
HA! I still can't grow a zucchini in this climate! It's pathetic :D
I DO have enough heirloom yellow cherry tomatoes to drown in though!
The microclimate here can be quite hot and dry in the spring/summer. Most zucchinis have not grown well, but Costata Romanesca has thrived. They also taste better than any other zucchini that I have tried. (except when the zucchinis hybridize with other squash in bizarre ways and make monstrosities... those tend to taste good too. One of the zucchinis sat on the counter too long and exploded. Another from the same vine got left over the winter and turned into a gourdlike vessel, and yet another fruited on a long, rambling vine, and lasted months at room temperature while staying tender.)
Have you tried that variety?
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. -Proverbs 4:7
Maieshe Ljin wrote:(except when the zucchinis hybridize with other squash in bizarre ways and make monstrosities... those tend to taste good too. One of the zucchinis sat on the counter too long and exploded. Another from the same vine got left over the winter and turned into a gourdlike vessel, and yet another fruited on a long, rambling vine, and lasted months at room temperature while staying tender.)
I suppose that is also a "you know you're a permie when..." situation as well.
Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. -Proverbs 4:7
I will give that one a try, because I've struggled with zucchini, too. Well, I still struggle with most veggies. Grinning at the exploding squash. I hope it didn't make too much of a mess!
I'm only 64! That's not to old to learn to be a permie, right?
...when you spent three days in the kitchen, canned up 21 quarts and 24 pints of stuff, and look at what is left to go, and wonder how insane you have to be to do this! And wonder if you'll ever see the shelves in your fridge again....
My canner, due to weird stove in rental, will only do 2 batches a day, that's a pretty serious bottleneck on the process.
...when you learn strange new things every day. This morning, for very complex reasons, I learned that orange lentils fluoresce brightly under ultraviolet light.
I really wasn't expecting to learn that before dawn this morning, and it startled me :D
When you've been searching for hours for something you've misplaced, and your brain helpfully supplies this thought: "Let's ask on permies! Maybe they can help me find it!"
No, Brain, permies cannot help you figure out where you misplaced the embroidery floss you bought. Permies can help you find all sorts of knowledge, but not THAT knowledge!
You might be a permie if your 8 year old daughter can't sleep and asks for a book that's "Not too boring but still interesting" to help her fall asleep. (Apparently, my husband's college Algebra textbook is too boring, as is my college Physics textbook. Therefore, textbooks are right out. But novels that she's read a million times are still to interesting.). So you go to your bookshelf and spot R Ranson's Homegrown Linen: Transforming Flaxseed into Fibre, Kate Downham's Backyard Dairy Goats, and Carol Depp's The Resilient Gardener and hand those to her.
Honestly, I think those all might be a bit too interesting, because I loved reading each and every one of them. But, maybe--just maybe--they're the right amount of interesting for an 8 year old so she can finally fall asleep!
Man, I went and checked, since it's been 30 minutes since I gave it to her. She's still awake. Apparently, Raven's book is too good, even in the eyes of an 8 year old!
Nicole Alderman wrote:You might be a permie if your 8 year old daughter can't sleep and asks for a book that's "Not too boring but still interesting" to help her fall asleep. (Apparently, my husband's college Algebra textbook is too boring, as is my college Physics textbook. Therefore, textbooks are right out. But novels that she's read a million times are still to interesting.). So you go to your bookshelf and spot R Ranson's Homegrown Linen: Transforming Flaxseed into Fibre, Kate Downham's Backyard Dairy Goats, and Carol Depp's The Resilient Gardener and hand those to her.
Honestly, I think those all might be a bit too interesting, because I loved reading each and every one of them. But, maybe--just maybe--they're the right amount of interesting for an 8 year old so she can finally fall asleep!
It's been a long time since there's been an 8 year old around here so I don't know how good an idea that is.
I actually looked at it last night (it was right next to the other books), but I couldn't remember if Paul said anything in there wasn't quite appropriate for an 8 year old, or my get her scared or worried. She easily gets scared, and she might get worried about the effects of toxic gick or other bad stuff in the world, and that might end up keeping her awake (even though the book is focused on how to solve those issues). Goats and flax seemed like a safer bet. (I probably shouldn't have given her the Resilient Gardener, because it talks about the year without a summer and the devastation that caused. Thankfully, she decided to read Raven's book, instead!)
I just asked her what she learned, and she said, "I learned about what you do with flax during the different season as months." So, she did actually read it!
I think it is Shawn's influence that the book is clean from a language perspective On our way home from Wheaton Labs, She Who Must Be Obeyed started reading it and she said she could hear it in Paul's voice, but without any foul language.
It is possible that some sections may be less appropriate - I read it after we got home, but obviously not from the perspective of "would I give this to an 8 year old to read".
Working toward a permaculture-strong retirement near sunny Sperling.
... when you find a dead Bic lighter (no butane, but still makes sparks) and you pause -- "Hey, I could use this with dry cattail heads to make a firestarter system for the wood stove!"
Derek Thille
master pollinator
Posts: 340
Location: Southern Manitoba...bald(ish) prairie, zone 3ish
Pearl Sutton wrote:when you look at how you are moving wood chips for a bed of mushrooms into place....
Permaculture teaches "Use small and slow solutions" but I don't think this is what they had in mind!
A small and slow solution
Not exceptionally dignified either.
:D
Perhaps not dignified but could qualify as "stacking functions" ;-)
I'm slowly getting a handle on the slow solutions...if when you plant a tree or shrub, it can be several growing seasons before you start to get the yield you'd hoped for. Here, we get drifting snow - aside from the fact that the weather is different every winter in terms of snowfall and wind direction / speed (although there are long term trends), every year with new plantings and changes in the landscape, that alters a bit how the snow drifts, which impacts spring melt, which impacts your water infiltration (or evil / wrong runoff). It forces a bit of slowing down.
Working toward a permaculture-strong retirement near sunny Sperling.
When your daughter gets you a wheelbarrow for Christmas, and you are ecstatic.
Past year's gifts include glass gem corn seed, heirloom giant cantaloupes, and beehive parts.
You are excited to learn that urine is sterile when it leaves the body ( unless you have an infection!), and that one person's urine, carefully applied, provides enough fertilizer for a 1200 square foot garden. You are so happy that you post the news to your family and friends...
Your yard is the only one in the neighborhood that has almost no chiggers or ticks, because your free range chickens take care of them.
You save egg shells in a junky pan that you keep in the oven, so that they can toast whenever the oven is on. Then you take them out, and crush them for the hens.
Every sunny window in the house is filled with pet plants.
You've taught your grandchildren how to make butter.
Your children didn't know that you could buy frozen vegetables at the store until they were married!
Your children didn't know how to make pancakes from a mix until they were away from home; they had always ground wheat to make them from scratch.
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On our way home from Wheaton Labs, She Who Must Be Obeyed started reading it and she said she could hear it in Paul's voice, but without any foul language.
