• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • r ranson
  • Nicole Alderman
stewards:
  • Joseph Lofthouse
  • paul wheaton
  • Mike Haasl
master gardeners:
  • jordan barton
  • John F Dean
  • Carla Burke
  • Greg Martin
gardeners:
  • Jay Angler
  • Leigh Tate
  • thomas rubino

a large wooden cooking pot lid - zero glue or metal

 
steward
Posts: 32886
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I think of something similar to this for making a cutting board.   On the ribs stick out of the sides and have pegs to hold the wood together.

 
steward
Posts: 8914
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
2571
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I'm curious how that lid holds up to expansion and contraction.  Seems like gaps would develop between the boards since when they expand they'd likely slide on the dovetails but when they contract nothing pulls them back together.

If the rails extend out the side and have pegs to hold them together, the expansion could still be an issue. Which will win, the expansion or the pegs?  Expansion wins and the pegs shear off or rip out of their holes.  If the pegs win, dents form on the end of the board and then when they shrink, the boards become loose.

What about the same dovetail rails and pins between the boards are installed, but then have butterfly inserts to hold the boards together?

 
pollinator
Posts: 1233
Location: Chicago/San Francisco
184
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
It would seem it functions effectively for a lid. Likely the expansion and contraction don't matter for that use. And/or, when needed one can set it on it's edge, boards parallel to the ground and give it a couple good whacks to set all the boards tight again.The connections (pegs, dovetails) don't attempt to make the lid air tight or water proof - unneeded.

A cutting board built like that would probably function for a while, but the "open" nature of the joins between boards would allow "stuff" to enter the joints and that would allow growth of various things in the cracks. This type construction, because of it's permeability, doesn't seem best for cutting boards.

A cutting board surface needs, amoung other things, to be non-permeable, in both micro and macro spheres. Thus the joins are much more demanding due to wood movement. Probably  there are ways to deal with this Maybe in the way of wooden wagon wheels with a metal band around them? And/or: What was the "science" behind European cutting boards built with the end grain as a working surface?

Regards,
Rufus
 
pollinator
Posts: 1577
Location: Victoria BC
229
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

Rufus Laggren wrote:It would seem it functions effectively for a lid. Likely the expansion and contraction don't matter for that use. And/or, when needed one can set it on it's edge, boards parallel to the ground and give it a couple good whacks to set all the boards tight again.The connections (pegs, dovetails) don't attempt to make the lid air tight or water proof - unneeded.

A cutting board built like that would probably function for a while, but the "open" nature of the joins between boards would allow "stuff" to enter the joints and that would allow growth of various things in the cracks. This type construction, because of it's permeability, doesn't seem best for cutting boards.

A cutting board surface needs, amoung other things, to be non-permeable, in both micro and macro spheres. Thus the joins are much more demanding due to wood movement. Probably  there are ways to deal with this Maybe in the way of wooden wagon wheels with a metal band around them? And/or: What was the "science" behind European cutting boards built with the end grain as a working surface?

Regards,
Rufus



The idea behind the butchers block style end-grain cutting boards is that the wood will stand up to the wear of knives and cleavers better compared to other grain orientations; the scoring will tend to go between the end grain 'strands' and close up again, rather than hacking permanent gouges in it as easily.


I might expect it to end up soaking up a lot of oniony, garlicy smells and pass some of this on to foods that shouldn't have these? Certainly the case with wood cutting boards..

You could have 2 lids.. but this would start to eat space pretty quick...
 
Rufus Laggren
pollinator
Posts: 1233
Location: Chicago/San Francisco
184
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
> end grain... soak up [stuff]

Pre-season it with, eg., food grade mineral oil to fill the pores as much as possible? Keep adding oil until it puddles for a day indicating the wood can not absorb any more. Vegetable oil could be used, but, depending, it might degrade and add it's own flavors. Since the wood would then already be at capacity, sorta speak, other fluids would be absorbed much less.

I was slightly more curious about how those block were held together in a way that reduced cracks and opening in the working surface over the years. Did those block actually maintain their surface integrity? That is, those block which were made before today's wonder glues.


Rufus
 
paul wheaton
steward
Posts: 32886
Location: missoula, montana (zone 4)
hugelkultur trees chicken wofati bee woodworking
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I would like to strongly suggest walnut oil instead of mineral oil.

I would also like to suggest a lot of salt.
 
Mike Haasl
steward
Posts: 8914
Location: Northern WI (zone 4)
2571
hunting trees books food preservation solar woodworking
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Another idea I had was to take each board of the cutting board and put a male dovetail along one long edge and a female dovetail on the other edge.  Then slide the boards together and put a peg at the end through the dovetail joint from above to lock them in place.
Dovetail-cutting-board.png
[Thumbnail for Dovetail-cutting-board.png]
 
Posts: 24
3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Contrary to what you may imagine, steam dries wood. So as long as the lid is used regularly, it should last well. Steam also kills most bacteria. Bonus. A lid like this should never be glued.

A cutting board is a different story. Glue it. Tightbond II is perfect for cutting boards, non toxic, and cheap. And, a first timer can make a glued cutting board in a couple of hours — instead of days.

 
Are you okay? You look a little big. Maybe this tiny ad will help:
Rocket Mass Heater Manual - now free for a while
https://permies.com/goodies/8/rmhman
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic