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Designer meat: what I want out of my chickens

 
Posts: 42
Location: Cheney, WA
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I've been doing a lot of thinking about meat birds, my ideal meat bird and how I want to get to it.  Cornish cross are pretty meh, for me.  I'm not raising birds for market; everyone raises meat birds to sell, and they all raise C-monsters.  I just want meat for my family so growing birds out fast for quick turn over and profit is off as a concern.  So is breast meat since my family prefers darker cuts of meat: thighs, legs and backs.  So the two "advantages" from C-monsters aren't really benefits to me and they come with one big draw back: they can't be bred, you have to order chicks from a supplier and they get their birds through artificial insemination.  Not exactly sustainable, and highly dependent on a fragile system.  I want my own meat birds that I can hatch out and raise every year, with a focus on meaty legs and larger over-all, with at least some reproductive independence, and good foraging/thriftiness is a bonus.  If a chicken takes 12 weeks to get to size but does it on bugs and grass rather than packing in the grain, that's a win to me.

So starting off I have Barred rocks:  personality plus, wonderful flavor,once was America's most loved meat breed, also great egg production so I will have plenty of stock
My next thought was to add Freedom rangers.  From what I've seen, they're long birds with lots of leg, exactly what I want.
After that maybe dark cornish?  They have a reputation for being good at avoiding predators and very thrifty foragers, and will go broody, but they also apparently have "fertility problems".  I don't know if that lies in the roosters, the hens, both or what, or if this is a deal breaker or if I could possibly work fertility back into the lines with my own selectiveness.

I'd love to hear what you guys thinks, what other breeds can you think of that have some of the attributes I'm looking for?  A really nice utility "homestead" bird, rather than a commercial producer.
 
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I honestly cannot taste any difference between a 100% free range chicken and a battery one. (I know I know heathen! I can with pork or beef but not chicken ) However the chickens we had with the largest legs were Jersey Giants.
 
pollinator
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Freedom Rangers don't breed true.  They're an awesome broiler bird.  I've raised them the last couple years, and will again this year. When I did a side by side taste test with a Wyandotte rooster I culled nobody in the family could tell the difference vs the Freedom Ranger, despite the Wyandotte being 18-20 weeks old at slaughter vs the 10 weeks for the Freedom Ranger.  But adding them to a breeding program might, or might not, give you the results you want.  My guess is you'd get inconsistent results.  Some fantastic birds.  Some very disappointing.

If you want to breed your own Freedom Rangers you could try to figure out the approximate crossing they do, and get some of those breeds.  There's some information out there, and if you call them they might even tell you (don't know, maybe not depending on how secretive they are).
 
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I want chicken feed that preflavors the meat.....
Garlic Chicken, Lemon Chicken, Parmesan Chicken........
MMMM
 
Louis Fish
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Andrew Mayflower wrote:Freedom Rangers don't breed true.  They're an awesome broiler bird.  I've raised them the last couple years, and will again this year. When I did a side by side taste test with a Wyandotte rooster I culled nobody in the family could tell the difference vs the Freedom Ranger, despite the Wyandotte being 18-20 weeks old at slaughter vs the 10 weeks for the Freedom Ranger.  But adding them to a breeding program might, or might not, give you the results you want.  My guess is you'd get inconsistent results.  Some fantastic birds.  Some very disappointing.

If you want to breed your own Freedom Rangers you could try to figure out the approximate crossing they do, and get some of those breeds.  There's some information out there, and if you call them they might even tell you (don't know, maybe not depending on how secretive they are).



Everything I've read says they're pretty secretive about it and I can't say I blame them.  Since I'm making my own crosses and not trying to breed them true to type (yet) I don't mind so much.  Keep the good performers and cull the rest then try it again.  Rise and repeat and be patient and observant.  That's the permaculture way, right?
 
Andrew Mayflower
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Louis Fish wrote:

Andrew Mayflower wrote:Freedom Rangers don't breed true.  They're an awesome broiler bird.  I've raised them the last couple years, and will again this year. When I did a side by side taste test with a Wyandotte rooster I culled nobody in the family could tell the difference vs the Freedom Ranger, despite the Wyandotte being 18-20 weeks old at slaughter vs the 10 weeks for the Freedom Ranger.  But adding them to a breeding program might, or might not, give you the results you want.  My guess is you'd get inconsistent results.  Some fantastic birds.  Some very disappointing.

If you want to breed your own Freedom Rangers you could try to figure out the approximate crossing they do, and get some of those breeds.  There's some information out there, and if you call them they might even tell you (don't know, maybe not depending on how secretive they are).



Everything I've read says they're pretty secretive about it and I can't say I blame them.  Since I'm making my own crosses and not trying to breed them true to type (yet) I don't mind so much.  Keep the good performers and cull the rest then try it again.  Rise and repeat and be patient and observant.  That's the permaculture way, right?



My point was that the Freedom Rangers would give inconsistent results.  A good preforming offspring (Freedom Ranger x Freedom Ranger) will also produce inconsistent results.  Unless you line breed the offspring you won't get rid of that inconsistency, and even then it would take a few generations.  They'd also probably never perform as well as the original Freedom Ranger either.

If you try it please post up the experience.  I'd be really interested to see if you can get them to work as breeding stock, and how it all turns out.  Personally I probably won't ever breed my own broilers, but that's got more to do with an intolerance for the noise of the roosters than anything else.  Maybe someday if I get additional acreage I will.  You're on the other side of WA from me.  If you were closer I'd consider buying chicks from you if that worked out well.
 
Louis Fish
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Andrew Mayflower wrote:

Louis Fish wrote:

Andrew Mayflower wrote:Freedom Rangers don't breed true.  They're an awesome broiler bird.  I've raised them the last couple years, and will again this year. When I did a side by side taste test with a Wyandotte rooster I culled nobody in the family could tell the difference vs the Freedom Ranger, despite the Wyandotte being 18-20 weeks old at slaughter vs the 10 weeks for the Freedom Ranger.  But adding them to a breeding program might, or might not, give you the results you want.  My guess is you'd get inconsistent results.  Some fantastic birds.  Some very disappointing.

If you want to breed your own Freedom Rangers you could try to figure out the approximate crossing they do, and get some of those breeds.  There's some information out there, and if you call them they might even tell you (don't know, maybe not depending on how secretive they are).



Everything I've read says they're pretty secretive about it and I can't say I blame them.  Since I'm making my own crosses and not trying to breed them true to type (yet) I don't mind so much.  Keep the good performers and cull the rest then try it again.  Rise and repeat and be patient and observant.  That's the permaculture way, right?



My point was that the Freedom Rangers would give inconsistent results.  A good preforming offspring (Freedom Ranger x Freedom Ranger) will also produce inconsistent results.  Unless you line breed the offspring you won't get rid of that inconsistency, and even then it would take a few generations.  They'd also probably never perform as well as the original Freedom Ranger either.

If you try it please post up the experience.  I'd be really interested to see if you can get them to work as breeding stock, and how it all turns out.  Personally I probably won't ever breed my own broilers, but that's got more to do with an intolerance for the noise of the roosters than anything else.  Maybe someday if I get additional acreage I will.  You're on the other side of WA from me.  If you were closer I'd consider buying chicks from you if that worked out well.



Oh I love roosters, so that's not a problem for me, lol.  I'm eventually going to work out shipping hatching eggs because I'm breeding my egg layers as well (again, the barred rocks, and then Ameracaunas and blue and black copper marans).  I have every intention of line breeding chickens until I have a true to type actual breed with the traits I want.  It's going to take at least 3 to 5 years depending on if I can hatch chicks early enough to get the pullets up to laying in their first year and hatch a second round before fall freezing temps. I will definitely track my progress here for your guys!  I'd like to see a meat breed that homesteaders can  reliably perpetuate on their own without having to order batches and batches each year from big hatchery companies all across the states.  Nothing of course will replace c-monsters for sheer market power, and there's still plenty of people who'd rather raise meat birds then cull them before winter and not have to deal with overwinter birds or, like you said, roosters, but there's a niche need for preppers and the more self sufficiency minded individuals I think.
 
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It sounds like you have a solid plan. While I haven't really tracked my chicken lineage, in my rabbits I've found tight linebreeding for 3-4 generations will typically produce pretty consistent results in all of the litters. Once I get to that level of consistency, it's pretty easy to identify which trait I need to improve most in; then I will bring in something new that is strong in the area where my line is weak. Then, it's just a matter of linebreeding in those new genetics for another 3-4 generations and repeating the process.

Breed the best, eat the rest...
 
Andrew Mayflower
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If someone could mix real Jersey Giant or maybe some Brahma size into a fast growing breed such that you could get. 6-7lb carcass without the health problems of CRX or the extra long time to maturity of the big chickens that would be a winner.  I like the 9.75 week grow out with the 5lbs dressed weight of the Freedom Rangers, but if I could get as good or better taste with an extra pound or so in 13-17 weeks I'd be all over that.
 
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Louis Fish wrote:

So is breast meat since my family prefers darker cuts of meat: thighs, legs and backs.

Have you ever tried Muscovy? They're not fatty like Noisy Ducks (Mallard domestics), are incredible moms, and they eat grass (Muscovy are closer to a goose than a duck genetically speaking). Their breasts have colour and texture, and are more like a dark meat than chicken legs are.
 
Louis Fish
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Jay Angler wrote:Louis Fish wrote:

So is breast meat since my family prefers darker cuts of meat: thighs, legs and backs.

Have you ever tried Muscovy? They're not fatty like Noisy Ducks (Mallard domestics), are incredible moms, and they eat grass (Muscovy are closer to a goose than a duck genetically speaking). Their breasts have colour and texture, and are more like a dark meat than chicken legs are.



I haven't, but Muskovies I have heard do not do well in the cold and we get below freezing temps pretty regularly this side of the Cascades. I've thought about cayuga ducks though!
 
Jay Angler
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I've got a friend who raises them in the Yukon, although in some weather I think they're contained. You'd have to supplement feed in the winter for sure, but you wouldn't need to over winter too many. A mom will happily hatch out 8-12 in a clutch at least 2 times in between April and August. Their population can get out of control *really* fast if you don't eat them which is why they're banned as an invasive species in places like Florida (which I don't understand, because people should just be encouraged to eat them - waaaayyyyy better and more ethical that feedlot beef or grocery store chicken!)

If I wasn't on the wrong side of the border, I'd give you a few to try.
 
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To the OP,

You might want to research the Delaware breed as well.  I have been raising them as dual purpose birds for a year now and the fit the bill.
 
Louis Fish
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Sam Stephens wrote:To the OP,

You might want to research the Delaware breed as well.  I have been raising them as dual purpose birds for a year now and the fit the bill.



Thanks for the tip!  I'm loving the look of the roosters.  About how many eggs do you get from your hens a year would you say?
 
Sam Stephens
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Louis Fish wrote:

Sam Stephens wrote:To the OP,

You might want to research the Delaware breed as well.  I have been raising them as dual purpose birds for a year now and the fit the bill.



Thanks for the tip!  I'm loving the look of the roosters.  About how many eggs do you get from your hens a year would you say?



4-5 large brown eggs per hen per week.  One hen lays a double yolk egg often.
 Good foragers, the white color is not great camo.   The roosters are not particularly attentive or protective of the flock.

My dad was in Vet School at the University of Illinois in 1960 and the Ag Dept had a flock of several thousand.  They fell out of commercial popularity soon after;replaced by the Frankenstein hybrids.

They are scarce and can be hard to source.  Mine came from Cackle Hatchery and their story is their bloodline came from a local MO producer sometime in the early '50's.  They appear to be true to breed.
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