chicken security

In our area we have mice, voles, wolves, coyotes, skunks, raccoons, squirrels, and hawks. .  I'm hoping someone can comment on our coop security needs... did we miss anything?  

Our coop is raised two feet off the ground on a trailer bed, clad with roofing steel on the outside, with insulated plywood walls inside, the windows are screened with 1/2" hardware cloth.  I've searched high and low for any openings, it seems very secure.  The coop has an automatic door with a ramp into a covered run, roofed with more  of the recycled barn steel, and screened with 1/2" hardware cloth. I've made a skirt of chicken wire around the run, secured with long fence staples.  

The run opens into a 12' x 40' gated chicken yard, which we've fenced with 4" hardware cloth.  The chicken yard is set tight against the treeline and surrounded by trees on all sides, to deter hawks.  The idea is that we will leave the gate to the sheltered run open during the day, to give the chooks free range of the larger yard, and they can use the smaller run as needed for shade/ rain and snow cover.

There is a lively debate in my home about the need to run a chicken wire skirt around the whole chicken yard, to use 1/2" hardware cloth to close up the gaps in the lower part of the whole fence (to keep mice and little raccoon hands out), and/or to run wires along the top of the yard as extra protection to the hawks.  Do these measures seem like overkill, with the rest of the coop and run secured?

I'd string fishing line or netting over top of the run.  The hawks in Kitchener know that they can just drop from the tree onto the chicken, so if word gets around in the hawk community you may experience that.  

I had an automatic door, the Pullet Shut, and it was a life changer, lol.  I initially had it set to open and close dawn and dusk, but I had to delay the morning opening because a raccoon figured it out.  When the sun was up a little more before it opened I never had another issue.

Good advice about the setting the door to open a bit late... thanks!   And good to know about Kitchener hawks, we see hawks all the time here and maybe they've learned tricks from their nearby cousins lol.  We set the fence posts to be six feet high so that if we need to enclose it we don't have to stoop to walk through/ clean...so lots of room for netting.  

Coons:  anything your fist can fit through, a coon can fit through.  Chicken wire WILL be shredded by a coon.   Coons will climb any wire that is not electrified. Stand back and look at the perimeter, is there anything that can be used to circumvent your defenses - tree, fence, shrub, vehicle, storage bin...

Rats/Mice: will dig under, unless excluded by mesh buried or brought out at least two fett from base of enclosure. Can fit through anything a quarter or nickle will fit through. Will climb any mesh not electrified.

Birds of prey: netting, mesh, or sting lines 2 inches apart to safeguard from aerial attack.

You're obviously not taking chances. Good. My only thought: I wasn't clear if your bigger run had the fencing sunk below grade to deter digging.

Did you say that the chicken yard is enclosed with 4" hardware cloth?  So, if the openings are 4" it's like fencing for larger livestock.  I doubt that will keep animals out.  You might add the 1/2" HW cloth along the lower part of that fencing.  Raccoons like to reach in and pull off the chickens' heads.  Charming, eh?

Bird netting could go a long way to deter the birds of prey, but in winter it won't hold up to heavy snow.  It droops and tears.  But perhaps the hens won't be out in the yard in winter?

Everyone tells us that an electrified perimeter is the way to go, and some barrier from above.

Maybe we've been lucky, but we have not had any issue with predator losses of our hens except one coyote raid when it was really snowy a couple years ago.  And we have a minimum security setup for the hens, not a Ft Knox like setup you all are discussing.

I did lose a few meat chickens to ravens a few years ago.  Last year at least by keeping broad-breasted turkeys with them the ravens stayed away, even with little or no other measures taken to keep them out.

I think you are going to be fine. If you can't tolerate losses at all, they need to be indoors. I have no idea how to keep a weasel out for instance, and they are sport killers. The only hawk kill so far was in a wide paddock, narrow paddocks have been very successful. Ground-based predators

There are so many predators with different tricks I shoot for a few losses a year from a dozen birds. I will say if you raise your own I think you will select for survival traits and have less trouble in future years. The main mortality we have had (admittedly NOT in Canada) has been foxes. They haven't eaten one, just grabbed through the electric net and let it go after getting zapped. At this point based on the footprints in the snow, the foxes are "trained" and give it wide berth.

I do think electricity is far far more effective than static fencing. A 36" fence will keep out anything but a mountain lion. Maybe even that because it is psychological.

Where I live raccoons and possums  are nocturnal unless something is wrong with them.
Rats, mice and voles are of no danger to any of my mature chickens as long as they are awake.
Based on that,  my chicken yard is fenced against dogs and  coyotes, with 4" or even larger openings.
The hens are in the coop by dusk,  and the coop has no openings bigger than 1/2".
When I had a combination coop/run, only the bottom 2 feet of fencing had 1/2" sized openings,  just to sure that raccoons couldn't spook them into reach.
The rest was chain link and such, but I wasn't worried about rat sized predators at that time.

I don't have a lot of hawk pressure but If I did I would try wires,  chicken wire or snowfencing overhead.
I do have a lot of natural cover for the hens, mostly for shade/food.

Possums are the danger at my place. Nothing like opening the door and finding your fave giant cochin hen gutted and beheaded. My rooster had been killed two weeks before. Now I have a pair of geese who patrol the yard. The other night I saw a possum on my security camera coming up the driveway toward the back yard.  By the time I got out the door, down the steps and around the house the possum was coming back down the drive. Gandolf and Galadriel were at the back gate, wings open, raising hell. Cleopatra was sitting on the fence watching the whole scene play out. Pretty sure I head her purr.. "Nicely done" to the geese.

Mink or other weasel family types are the big thing that comes to mind. Are you sure you don't have any of these around? Because they will not even notice a fence with 4" openings as an impediment...

In my experiences at several sites, they will hunt in broad daylight unless there is a reason(dogs) not to.

AngelinaGianna Maffeo wrote:Possums are the danger at my place. Nothing like opening the door and finding your fave giant cochin hen gutted and beheaded. My rooster had been killed two weeks before. Now I have a pair of geese who patrol the yard. The other night I saw a possum on my security camera coming up the driveway toward the back yard.  By the time I got out the door, down the steps and around the house the possum was coming back down the drive. Gandolf and Galadriel were at the back gate, wings open, raising hell. Cleopatra was sitting on the fence watching the whole scene play out. Pretty sure I head her purr.. "Nicely done" to the geese.

My German Shepherd was going nuts when let outside to pee before bed time a month or so ago.  Went out to where he was and discovered an opossum trying to set up residence under a pile of branches.  Evicted it with the 20ga.  In the morning when I cleaned up the carcass I realized it was a female with LOTS of babies.  Lost count, but there had to be over a dozen, thankfully mostly dead from the cold overnight temps.  Last thing I needed is an opossum family setting up residence right next to the chicken's area.  

I did forget to mention my dog, who , while hardly a trained livestock guardian , certainly acts as deterrent.
She has killed rats, and possums and and fought racoons.
She is hardly any bigger than a big racoon herself , but don't tell her that!
I always call her off of racoons , lest she get really hurt, but she has drug one out of the coop on one occasion and down off the fence a couple of times.

In fairness, she did kill one of our chickens,but since then she has mostly just enjoyed startling them.

Tj Jefferson, can you say more about narrow paddocks?  My chickens are outside all day (except when the terrifying white stuff covers the ground, freaking everyone out) and our only clear danger is hawks, since our coop is more or less Fort Knox.  We consider meat birds (not free ranging) but don't want to make them into little targets.

Anne Pratt wrote:

Everyone tells us that an electrified perimeter is the way to go, and some barrier from above.

Tj Jefferson wrote: I do think electricity is far far more effective than static fencing.

I'll give a nod to electric fence, it's what I use with great results. So good, I have not lost a chicken to a four legged predator since first using it some five years ago. I use portable electric net style fence. It's cost effective, and can easily be moved. Electric fence works great when 1) the energizer is not undersized and has enough oomph to hurt, 2) the energizer has adequate grounding. I think that fence energizers that are advertised as "up to 7 miles" or "up to 16 miles" is not an accurate way to size them. I think to myself "7 miles of what? One strand? Five strands? Slick wire? Poly Wire?" All those different scenarios put different load on a fence energizer even if they're all 7 miles long. All fence energizers have an output rated in joules, and that's what sets one apart from another. Joules is the energy, the "punch" that an electric fence will provide. Weak energizers (like 0.15 or 0.25 joule) may be good for keeping tame animals within confines, such as a pet horse for example. (Just for an example I looked at an energizer on tractor supplies website just now, marketed as for up to 18 miles, but with a 0.2 joule output. Not adequate against hungry predators in my opinion). Keeping hungry and opportunistic predators out of confines requires an effective pain barrier. I currently have a 1 joule energizer servicing three 100ft lengths of electric net. If I'm not paying attention it will zap me through my boots, and it hurts. I can imagine what it must feel like on the nose of a raccoon or fox or coyote that is not wearing any boots. When electric fences hurt badly, animals remember, and they rarely, if ever, try a fence a second time.

My electric fence has been great. I have been fortunate with little aerial predation on my adult birds. I have big, heavy 6-8 lb hens like orpingtons and brahmas, too big for a hawk to carry off, but I imagine if times got lean they would stick around and eat one on the ground. I did one day earlier this spring set my automatic coop door timer too early, and the door opened when it was still dark, just before twilight, and I lost a hen to what I believe an owl. The entire neck and head were gone, severed cleanly with just 5 or 6 feathers on the ground and the body untouched. Never seen anything like it before.

James Freyr wrote:Electric fence works great when 1) the energizer is not undersized and has enough oomph to hurt, 2) the energizer has adequate grounding.

... and I lost a hen to what I believe an owl. The entire neck and head were gone, severed cleanly with just 5 or 6 feathers on the ground and the body untouched. Never seen anything like it before.

Agree, a deep ground rod is essential. If the soil around the rod dries out, it insulates the system and the fence loses its bite.

I remember the owl scenario growing up. Exactly the same clues at the crime scene.

How did people manage before electricity? It's been only 200 years since man started to harness it. I am just curious, in general, to know how people managed without electrical fences.

Do you have a dog?
Our dogs are good about protecting the birds.  

Our chicken yard is just too big to cover above.   The other day, our 6-month old puppy in training was barking her head off in the middle of the day.    I looked out the window to see a big hawk flying away.   Unfortunately, the hawk cut one of the hens pretty badly, but it would have been fatal had the puppy not seen it.

Our older dog would have popped the gate and gone after the hawk, had he been out.  
 
Everything loves chicken.

The coop sounds pretty secure from what I can tell. I've never had an automatic chicken door, I've always gone for a manual, so maybe this doesn't matter, but I figured I'd put it out there anyways. If you have an automatic door, still make sure you go out and check every night to make sure it shuts correctly and that ALL the chickens make it in. Chickens supposedly like to go to bed early, but mine like to stay out late scratching in the barn. It's not unusual for them to miss the call for bed, and then I have to go and catch ten chickens because I already shut the gate. Granted, if your chickens are in a fenced yard without any more intense scratching interests than maybe they would go in easier, but I figured I'd bring it up anyways. If you have an automatic door and it shuts at a certain time, and you don't take the time to go check, then chances are you'll lock a chicken or two out and they'll get eaten because they didn't make it in on time. I saw that someone already mentioned the door time, and that was really great advice (although still poses the issue of leaving chickens out).
Two things about the fenced yard. If you actually want to keep the chickens in, then four feet isn't enough. If you got chickens like Orpingtons or Australorps then it'd work, but a hamburg or leghorn could easily fly out of that. My chickens cross our ten foot tall walls around our feed pen just to snitch from unopened bags and spilled grain (and the dog meat, but we needn't go into that, lol). They are incredibly smart, and if they get a wonder lust than they could easily get out of that pen (again, depending on the breed, I have some pretty light and flightly breeds).  The fencing itself isn't small enough on its own to keep predators out either, which someone also mentioned, so buffering at least the lower part of the fence would be best.
In my experience, nothing except a fully enclosed roof will keep out a bird of prey if they're really determined. I had an owl crawl through a 12' by 4' gap (that I didn't know was there) after successfully coming once before. And that was the second time that night after we caught him red handed the first time! The fishing wire would help, as would shade cloth, but it won't be totally secure. A dog or goose would probably be your best bet for ensuring that you don't have an attack, but even a goose has the chance for being eaten (though highly unlikely, since they don't even sleep heavily). The nice thing about geese is that if you have more than one, they all stick together. So if you have a threat, the ganders will ALL protect against it. They are completely unified, and always seem to pick up on approaching possible threats. I haven't had any bird of prey attack since I got geese, even though I didn't get them specifically for protection.
Never underestimate the power of a good rooster though. The alert ones warn the hens early, and will even fight off an attacking hawk if it comes to it. These roosters from Greenfire Farms are supposedly known for defending their flocks well, although there are other less expensive breeds that would probably do pretty well.
Here's a pic of my geese when they saw a hawk flying half a mile away, to give an idea of how aware and synchronized they are .

Good warnings about the chickens not going in at night and counting them.  We have several hard-headed birds that want to sleep in odd places.   Not good for them if the owls are out!

I don't have a timer, but I bought a linear actuator ($27) and a remote control ($15) off Amazon and made my own remote opener.   I have a cord running out there, but I have a lawnmower battery as a backup.  Works GREAT, especially when it's raining outside.  Just point the remote and push the button.    

Here is a video:

i guess that ignorance is bliss.  the chicken yard was here when i moved in.  

i have racoons and possums.  owls and hawks.  open top pen, open door coop is under a shade tree.  only time i have had trouble with hawks is before leave canopy grew cover.  even so, my girls fought them off.

as for rodents, the girls eat them.  and love eating corn snakes. they will chase each other. one grabs the goodie and the others try and steal it.

i worried more about them when they were smaller.  used fishing line trick someone mentioned.  but cleaning pen became issue, so down it came.

speaking of clean, don't attract pretators by leaving feed/scrapes out.  put out what they will eat up.  clean up what they won't.

my dog is a herding mix.  she will bark like crazy if a big bird is overhead.  if they are brave enough to fly low, she chases them off.

The worst predators I've encountered have been weasels and mink -- both will continue killing as long as there is anything moving.  Apparently they aren't intelligent enough to realize they've already made their kill; movement, to them, indicates that they need to try harder.  And both can fit through small holes.  Weasels can follow a mouse through it's tunnel, which means if a mouse can get in, so can a weasel.  Mink are a little bigger, and need bigger holes, but can still squeeze through a small opening.  If you live where either of these are a problem (much of North America), make sure you have even the smallest gaps closed up.  Electric netting fence around your chickens will work, too -- as long as it's ON.  One night of leaving it off, though....

Dogs, raccoons, skunks, coyotes, foxes, bobcats, and on and on and on.... There are so very many animals that love them a chicken dinner!  We used to say that the chicken coop needed to be stronger than Fort Knox (and probably just about as expensive to build, LOL!).

I just lost all nine of my birds yesterday. The description of neck eaten and head hanging by the spinal cord is vivid but that’s a mink or weasel. I saw a brown critter with a narrow tail in my machine shop a few days before the birds were all killed. I had “plugged all the holes in the floor but apparently the corner of the door was chewed away enough to permit access. You could only detect that faulty door from the inside.
It seems that no matter what you do, eventually a predator will find the one weakness in your security plan.
Fortunately, I hatched one pullet in early February and had put 11 eggs in the incubator yesterday morning morning before finding the massacre.
I wouldn’t have begrudged one bird to a hungry beast, but killing for sport makes me really angry.
Needless to say, no matter what you do, the odds are in favor of the predators.
I had moved all the birds to the coop from the chicken tractor that is completely covered with snow. Lotta good that did🤬
Cheers
Trim sends

Anne Pratt wrote:We consider meat birds (not free ranging) but don't want to make them into little targets.

It took a couple of years but hawks learned that there were  standard, white chickens (meat birds) at our place and the losses increased every summer thereafter.
We did two things:
- moved the coop and run closer to the house,
- changed to dark-coloured birds.
No losses so far.

A friend gave me three hens, one old one died in the first month but the other two give me almost an egg a day. They live in a coop that as previously used for seven chickens, All of whom passed away naturally years ago. My son secured the coop with hardware cloth from floor to top and although I have found evidence of something trying to dig on they have been unsuccessful. I fill holes with gravel and rock.

The coop is under an overhang that’s extended over garage doors so they are reasonably secure, protected from weather but get good sun from the southwest. Once in a while I will surprise a large bird that had been sitting in the beams overhead, trying to decide how to grab a chicken. But Again, no losses.

One day I must have not latched the coop door and one of the girls escaped. No way to catch her in the snow and woods. I mourned her loss but two days later she showed up asking for dinner. Ha. I thought that she wasn’t very bright but she was clever enough to avoid the many predators out there. Good girl. Welcome home.

It may not be much help, but friends of mine have a posse of feral cats that they neutered. The cats hang around the farm eating all the mice and rats, and also pulling the weasels and raccoons away from the chicken coop. I'm not sure how they do with the birds of prey, but the cats have done such a good job that when the farmer went into a retirement home and sold the farm, he was able to re-home the cats to a neighbor who welcomed the extra protection.  So please consider neutering your neighborhood feral cats and allowing them to make a contribution to your chicken's safety.

I have pretty much the same system as you, Ida, but I did lay chicken wire flat under the fence:
I have a coop prolonged by a winter run/ hoop house, then a trap door built into a door going to the yard, and that yard is fenced as well..  When little diggers come, they will usually start as close to the fence as possible, and then they will meet the wire and get discouraged. [Hopefully you will see the disturbance and take other measures, such as to arrange for lead poisoning [?] live traps [Do that ONLY if you are sure it is not a skunk!] On the outside I also added a couple of shovelfuls of dirt to cover it and allow grass to take hold. Laying it flat is a lot less work than trenching the darn thing. Also, if I need to repair or move the fence I can just pick it up. If you want to relocate the wire you laid flat, it will not be possible if you allow turf to grow there. That is handy to make different paddocks so you can rotate the chickens from one to the other in the summer. I'm not planning to move these flat pieces of chicken wire.
On the inside, I just placed some logs to deter my chickens from digging too. They still do dust themselves near the fence but the logs [arm size or bigger] are a barrier they can't move so they are good.
If I were to redo it, I would extend the wire from the fence outward but not inwards and put zip ties here and there to prevent gaps. Make sure the chicken wire is well anchored in the ground if you want to be able to mow all around on the outside of the fence. Ask me how I know! That was quite a mess to clean up the chicken wire off these blades!
I may also try to use something that will not rust but I'm not sure what. I had one rooster die and I suspect he managed to ingest a bit of that rusty chicken wire, but I'm not sure. He died mysteriously. One morning, I found him shaking and convulsing, brought him in and tried to comfort him but to no avail.
Since we feed them grain, this attracts mice, and since I normally leave the door between the coop and the outside run to the coop open all day, there is a good chance that they would come in during the day. As a matter of fact, I would often see mice running under my roosting chickens and find their little presents all over.
To remedy this, I made sure that all the walls were absolutely tight. and I mean NO gaps whatsoever. [I've seen adult mice squeeze in a 1/4" slit, so I nailed a piece of aluminum roofing over it. Problem solved]
In addition, in the winter, you know that these critters will want to be in a WARM coop, but in the winter, the door to the yard [past the winter run] is kept closed. The trap door is open during the day, but high enough that it is a significant obstacle. My chickens are probably frightening enough that the rodents do not attempt. To come in the coop, they'd have to get in the yard [easy enough], climb up through the high trap door under the watchful eye of my chickens and then also climb up through the other trap door to the coop.
Since I took these precautions, I have not seen a single mouse turd in either building [coop or winter run extension]. In their run, when it is too cold, I only open the high trap door for ventilation [and the chickens will still go out in the yard, even when it is below zero].
In the morning, I still find the excess grain/ food, and the rodents have not eaten any.
So so far, so good with this system of multiple obstacles.

Cd Greier wrote:

Anne Pratt wrote:We consider meat birds (not free ranging) but don't want to make them into little targets.

It took a couple of years but hawks learned that there were  standard, white chickens (meat birds) at our place and the losses increased every summer thereafter.
We did two things:
- moved the coop and run closer to the house,
- changed to dark-coloured birds.
No losses so far.

Meat birds do present a more attractive, bigger and defenseless target. They need extra protection. A roof that will obscure them from predators is a must.  Plus they will need the shade in the summer anyway.
And if your flock is small enough, have a net over their enclosure. Since they do not forage or move much once they reach 4 weeks, they will be very safe under the net.
Owls, hawks and other predators do not like to get their feet tangled in a net so they will leave them alone. The net doesn't have to be much. Even if the holes are big enough to get through, they would have to be able to exit, with the bird hanging from their beak, and negotiate the net again. Most would not even attempt.