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The wrong motor

 
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I recently bought a motor blindly and surprise, surprise....it’s not what i need.

This motor runs way too fast and it has like zero torque.

What i need is a motor that runs slow but can move two gears that have a little weight to move.

The current motor i fear would spin thing out if control. I put a current regulator on it tobslow it down but it’s still too fast.

In the end i’ve been forced to slap a bicycle pedal drive on it for the time being, but i think a motor would probably be more appropriate, ideally with a foot start/stop and speed regulator.

Uploading a pic of the current motor specs.

Also, i was totally unable to attach anything to the shaft. It has one of those raised parts on the shaf that you probably need a special attachment for.
Totally clueless@motors.
Thanks
William
current-motor-specs.jpeg
current motor specs
current motor specs
 
pollinator
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William, this may be a good motor to use backward.
Do you have any use for battery charging or other trickle-in loads? This paired with a wind-mill or hydro-wheel could make a decent generator.
 
William James
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Chris Sturgeon wrote:William, this may be a good motor to use backward.
Do you have any use for battery charging or other trickle-in loads? This paired with a wind-mill or hydro-wheel could make a decent generator.



Yeah i was thinking a table router or a planer for woodworking as an alternative. Thanks for the idea!
W
 
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William James wrote:
Also, i was totally unable to attach anything to the shaft. It has one of those raised parts on the shaf that you probably need a special attachment for.

William



That model of motor should have a standard keyed shaft. You should be able to mount any standard pulley of the correct size to it. If it is a low-powered application, you might get away with removing the key and using a non-keyed pulley by screwing the set-screw down into the keyway.

If you are able to run whatever it is off bicycle pedals, I suspect what you need is a fractional horsepower gear motor. Without knowing what it is, it's difficult to know. That motor is pretty normal in power and rpm's. An AC motor's rpm's are determined by frequency, so there is not a wide range of rpm's without gearing. It would be good for a router or shaper but a bit small for a 12" planer.
 
pollinator
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I can't tell for sure by the detail but this looks square, which makes me think it is a series wound motor (as often found in washer/dryer).

Anyway, it sounds like you'd be interested in DIY power tools, so if you haven't already, check out Matthias Wandell on youtube and his website.

His homemade dust collectors have been on my todo list for awhile, but he has homemade bandsaws, jointers, and other stuff as well.
 
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I always thought it was dc motors that could be used as a generator not ac motors. most common ac motors are usually 1800 rpm or 3600 rpm if they are the same hp 1800 rpm motor will have twice the torque of a 3600rpm motor.
a crude way to reform a motor shaft is with a file while it is running.
 
William James
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Here is the current state of the haphazard project, as you can see the length I’ve gone to to circumnavigate the motor issue. Sorry for the rotation.
William
Improvised-pedal-power.jpeg
Improvised pedal power
Improvised pedal power
Improvised-pedal-power.jpeg
Improvised pedal power
Improvised pedal power
 
Jordan Holland
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bruce Fine wrote:I always thought it was dc motors that could be used as a generator not ac motors. most common ac motors are usually 1800 rpm or 3600 rpm if they are the same hp 1800 rpm motor will have twice the torque of a 3600rpm motor.
a crude way to reform a motor shaft is with a file while it is running.



AC motors can if they have permanent magnets, or if they have an armature with coils that can be energized, or if the iron plates are replaced with magnets. Not generally worth it in my opinion, since there are better generators already out there.
 
pollinator
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What in the world are you trying to do?  That motor is rated for 1.5 hp or 2hp depending on configuration - which is a LOT of force.  Spinning at 2750-2950 RPM is indeed fast (that's like power-tool, table saw fast) but it should have lots of power for anything that you can accomplish with half a bicycle!

Some motors have built in gear reducers ... or you can buy fancy add-on reducers (e.g. https://www.surpluscenter.com/Power-Transmission/Gear-Reducers-Gearboxes/Cast-Iron-Shaft-Input-Gear-Reducers/5-1-RA-Gear-Reducer-1-15-HP-Left-Output-WWE-HDRS-133-5-L-13-133-5-L.axd) or just slap a belt pulley on there and then, like the bike but in reverse, make it turn a much bigger pulley and presto, you've reduced speed and increased torque.  "Just slapping on pulleys" ain't cheap and it tends to produce a complex of belts that are capable of maiming anyone with loose clothing or long hair.

Fortunately for you, Italy produces a LOT of small motor transmissions.  My sawmill has one.  Getting something shouldn't be very hard, although it may be better to just set aside your cheap motor and set out to find the right one (or wait for it ...).
 
bruce Fine
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just a thought on what your building.
if you can find a 90 volt or 180 volt dc motor they are run through a variable speed controller
here's an example,

https://www.surpluscenter.com/Electric-Motors/DC-Motors/DC-Motors-Base-Mount/1-2-HP-90-Volt-DC-Motor-10-3114.axd


treadmill motors are like this if you can find a treadmill to repurpose

by the way what is that thing your building?
 
William James
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Eliot Mason wrote:What in the world are you trying to do?  That motor is rated for 1.5 hp or 2hp depending on configuration - which is a LOT of force.  Spinning at 2750-2950 RPM is indeed fast (that's like power-tool, table saw fast) but it should have lots of power for anything that you can accomplish with half a bicycle!



Like i said in the original post, i bought the wrong motor😩.

The bicycle, and the seeing pedal before it are back-up ideas since I can’t find the right motor and the key shaft thing makes it even more difficult since I can’t find a keyshaft attachment.

The point of the whole project is to fill containers with potting soil, so there’s a 30cm disk that rotates (3kg) and above there’s a rotating circular lawnmower blade that should help send potting soil down the chute.
William
 
Eliot Mason
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Sounds fun!

I don't think you have "the wrong motor" here.  There may be better motors, but this falls into the realm of possible motors.  What you don't have is power reduction and power transmission.  There might be some big DC motors out there that would spin slowly enough that you could do a direct drive, but your current motor + transmission (an AC motor with some assembly of pulleys & belts or a transmission) is generally how these things are done.  The problem is going to be that motors are ubiquitous and cheap and dumb and the other parts of the system are clever, smart and expensive : (

What you are doing reminds of the fertilizer & seed spreader for a tractor... big hopper with an agitator and below it a disc to fling the material all over.  The PTO input is generally 540 RPM, geared down to something less than that.  I'd think that something lik 30 RPM would be in the right range (if only to make a spinning lawn-mower blade not be super scary!).

So the challenge is really about gearing down from ~3000 RPM to ~30 RPM. Or 100:1.  That's a serious challenge - and that might indeed you to find a different solution.  Bruce's comment on treadmills is good - Americans seem to purchase and dispose of a a LOT of these amking them an urban natural resource found on craigslist.  Italians?  I dunno.

I'd suggest starting at the machine you've got and working from its requirements to a motor.  Some collection of parts might turn that into the right motor, maybe not.

In terms of gear and that keyshaft... almost all motors will have a keyed shaft.  Its just the best way to make sure the attachment actually turns instead of slipping.  Little motors with very light loads (e.g. fans) will have a tapped or threaded shaft.  It might be necessary to find a welder who can take a bicycle chain ring and weld it to a keyed pulley.

Wish I could be of more help ... the whole country difference, phantom machine in development, unknown resources thing makes it hard to be specific.  : (
 
pollinator
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William James,
Your initial post said you put "a current regulator" on the motor to slow it down, I'm not certain, but that might be a problem for a motor with a capacitor. Possibly why you saw poor torque, if you had the power "dimmed down"?
Like Eliot said 2hp or 3hp is a strong motor... but that rating is at the rated input voltage and speed.
The gearing-down can be done with a gear-reduction drive. Motor via V-belt input to gear-reducer, then output via V-belt, or direct to your machine. They often do this by a worm gear, which naturally creates a right-angle change from input to output. This might take the place of your bevel gears on the top left side of your machine.

In one photo, there is an electric drill. I'm guessing it is variable-speed-reversible? Have you tried using it to power your machine as a test? There are larger and slower models that might be found second-hand/used... with the side benefit of being a drill when needed.
It's already setup with controls (trigger) and a way to couple it to something (chuck).
Maybe instead of your disc and blade, use an auger for drilling large holes in wood? (bonus it is made to fit drill chuck) maybe an  auger for bulb planting? or for cutting ice for ice-fishing? (do you do that in Italy?)

Another thing to try, is to look for another thing that works in a similar way (like the treadmill, slow/variable speed) or a kitchen mixer, or another machine that works slowly... that you could adapt or steal part of the mechanism from to make your machine operate.

 
William James
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Hello everyone,
I took kenneth’s advice and went with a drill setup.
It’s still too fast and the drill overheats and smokes at the low A/C current.
I’ll post some photos.
I had to learn how to weld to get this going, so i guess that’s educational:)
William
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William James
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I'm thinking of buying a gear-reducer or a gear motor. I honestly don't know the difference between the two or if I'd need a primary motor to run it.

I'm checking out videos on youtube and it seems a product like this would work. I need less than 60 rpms and more than 100 torque. I'm getting those values based on the fact that I need the cheese wheel thing to rotate around about once every 3 or 4 seconds, so I'm thinking 20 to 30 rpms. The torque value I got based on what an average person puts to a bicycle, so 100 newtons or whatever.

https://www.paolettiferrero.it/it/ecommerce/dettaglio/ps150-12-289-motoriduttore-epicicloidale-12v-23-14-rpm


So 50 euros for that and then I'll need a power supply unit I guess, but I know an electrician that can help with that.

I suppose another idea would be to find a gearbox that reduces the rpms (2700) down to what I need (20-30) and place it between the drill and the main shaft. But I have even less of an idea of what that would entail.

Any thoughts?
William
 
Eliot Mason
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Good find!

A gear motor is just a motor with built-in gearing, while I think of a gear-reducer as a free-standing unit.  That DC motor you found has a built in planetary gear reduction - there are so many variations of the product b/c the same motor is paired with slightly different gearing to produce different output speeds.

I don't know how durable DC motors are in this type of application ... but they seem pretty cheap so just go experiment!

A thought ... that company also sells ones like this: https://www.paolettiferrero.it/it/ecommerce/dettaglio/bl192-24-125-motoriduttore-brushless-24v-40-30rpm.  I'd spend a few euros more for that b/c A) its brushless, which should translate into less maintenance and efficiency B) its 24v vs 12v.  They have the same output ratings, but generally a higher voltage motor is more powerful... so it might have more stamina, handle a sudden increase in torque, etc.  

I'm sure someone with more experience will chime in .... please?

Finally, the voltage converter (AC->DC transformer) is easy - no electrician required!  That same company sells transformers such as https://www.paolettiferrero.it/it/ecommerce/dettaglio/tdgc2-0-5kva-variac-0-5kva-220v.  You could probably ask them to pair the motor with the appropriate transformer.
 
William James
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hey thanks for the advice Eliot.
William
 
William James
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Got this yesterday.
Only problem, how the heck do you attach something to it?
Haha
W
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Kenneth Elwell
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William, I'm trying to understand your goal. I'm thinking that there might be a simpler way.
I looked at your website and I'm guessing that you are trying to dispense a metered amount of soil into a cup/pot for growing your product.
I imagine that you are scooping by hand, and filling each one-at-a-time, and looking to speed/scale things up.

I don't mean to discourage you from your idea, but simple solutions can be quite powerful, often inexpensive, and just as fast or faster than complex solutions... and not dependent upon one machine working flawlessly.

 
Kenneth Elwell
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As for the gearmotor, it looks like the motor mounts with that shiny boss inside/though a hole in a frame/bracket and is secured by 3 screws; and the shaft is meant to be fixed to a part (lever/pulley/gear) that has that corresponding "D" shape hole and retained by a pin in the transverse hole.
One could mount a pulley with a round hole and a transverse set screw that would tighten onto the flat side of the shaft. It is not as secure and won't handle as much torque, since the set screw tends to deform the point-of-contact and then loosen over time. If the set screw was pointed, it could be aligned with that hole and be a little bit more secure.

 
William James
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Hi Kenneth,
Thanks for the info on the shaft. As for the previous post, while i’m always open to new ideas, honestly i’ve already built two other manual container fillers but haven’t been able to bring the work time down at all. It takes about 15 minutes to make 100 containers, no matter how you slice it, since the hand motions don’t differ all that much.

Last year we were making so many we had to outsource and paid 4 cents per filled container. We ended up paying something like 12,000 euros to have a constant supply of containers.

So, you can see the need we have to automate some of the process to do a bunch without a heavy burden on people doing it.
W
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