• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Nicole Alderman
  • r ranson
  • Anne Miller
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Mike Haasl
stewards:
  • paul wheaton
  • Joylynn Hardesty
  • Dave Burton
master gardeners:
  • jordan barton
  • Greg Martin
  • Steve Thorn
gardeners:
  • Carla Burke
  • Jay Angler
  • Kate Downham

Science of Oatmeal ?

 
Posts: 69
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator

reference this article     https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1028&context=nutritionfacpub
QUOTE:
The most common way to eat oats is oatmeal, and several different types of oatmeal can be purchased in most grocery stores, including regular, quick-cooking and Irish and Scottish oatmeal(9). To make oats more digestible and easier to eat (namely, softer), the starch in the groat must become gelatinised(10). Starch consists of granules made up of of two different glucose-containing polysaccharides: amlyose and amylopectin. Converting oats into a more desirable food requires heating the starch in the presence of water so the water can move into the granule, allowing it to swell and become soft.   ENDQUOTE

First nitpicking about the info stated.  I get that water moves into the granule making it swell and become soft....  But is heat needed for this or does it just make it faster?   Here is why I ask.

For the last couple of years one of the chik new trends was making-eating something called cold-roast oatmeal.   Basically it involves putting regular oatmeal in a cup of mllk for instance with cinnamon and blueberries and letting it set/soak overnight so that it becomes soft to eat with out having to cook it.   I have done this myself many dozens of times and the texture and taste is acceptable and I appreciated the reduction of effort to
prepare and clean up etc.

The article I referenced seems to indicate a need for heating or cooking and I wonder if  the "coldroast"  method  is causing some nutrition in the oat to not be digested and assimilated and or maybe even gastric distress.

Further there is some distinction between types of oatmeal available such as regular old fashioned,  quick oats,, steel cut,  scottish cut  etc.      From what I read  the "Quick" oats are seemingly  pre- cooked
and maybe even the regular old fashioned oats may be steamed or processed in some way that they dont need cooking either to the extent described in the article..

Which leads me to wonder..... about raw oats you can buy from health food stores etc.      The article described different oat grain varieties ... some that have hulls and some that do not.     I believe there is something I have seen in health food stores called OAT BERRIES  which I assume is the oat grain  with hulls that has not been de-hulled.     Or maybe it is the oat variety  without hulls before any processing .

For that matter,  When we buy oats to feed horses ....  What kinds of oats comes in those bags ?    If there was nuclear war and I was starving etc.   how would I prepare the horse oats  for myself if they are any different than human oats ?

I know this all seems trivial but I eat oatmeal  for breakfast most of the time and I want to know if I am causing problems or wasting nutrition etc. using the cold soak technique.  I have even used the soak method  with steel cut oats and I dont think they have been pre steamed the way the rolled oats and quick oats have.










 
author & gardener
Posts: 401
Location: Southeastern U.S.
196
goat cat forest garden foraging chicken food preservation medical herbs writing solar wood heat homestead
  • Likes 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Scott, you've really put a lot of thought into this. I can't address all your concerns, but I do know that soaking grain (in a mildly acidic solution) before eating is will neutralize the phytic acid in them. Phytic acid binds a number of minerals in the grain, making them unavailable for absorption by the body. I'll refer you to two sources for more information:

  • Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon (that's the review here on Permies)
  • "Living With Phytic Acid" web article at the Weston Price Foundation Website.

  • These can hopefully give you a start on your research.

    That being said, oats are fairly low in phytic acid (most of it's in the bran), but I can tell you that when I soak and cook "old-fashioned" oatmeal this way, my husband can digest it better.

    Oats sold for livestock is still in the hull. If you're willing to grind the oats with hull and include a lot of cellulose in your diet, then you could give it a try. Otherwise, you'll need to dehull it yourself (something I've never tried). The other thing I can tell you is that livestock grains aren't as "clean" as those sold for human consumption. By that I mean there's more chaff and odd seeds leftover from the millers, for example, I find bits of corn, sunflower seeds, vetch seeds, even processed livestock kibble in the 50-pound bags I get. My goats don't care, of course!

    Hopefully, those are a few more clues in your search for understanding.
     
    Scott Perkins
    Posts: 69
    7
    • Likes 2
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator

    Leigh Tate wrote:Scott, you've really put a lot of thought into this. I can't address all your concerns, but I do know that soaking grain (in a mildly acidic solution) before eating is will neutralize the phytic acid in them. Phytic acid binds a number of minerals in the grain, making them unavailable for absorption by the body. I'll refer you to two sources for more information:

    That being said, oats are fairly low in phytic acid (most of it's in the bran), but I can tell you that when I soak and cook "old-fashioned" oatmeal this way, my husband can digest it better.
    .



    Thanks Leigh-   I will follow your links ... I will note from basic chemistry that  one acid cannot neutralize another acid technically so there must be some more things going on.

    I also did find out that all commercially prepared oats ARE cooked before packaging and if I recall it is to stop the action of enzymes from deteriorating the oats as they age.   So it is likely animal feed oats
    are not cooked.        Additionally I did see on a health food website where  they sold oat hull fiber as a separate item presumably for people who just want to add pure fiber to a recipe.   So maybe ground up
    animal feed oatmeal might be sucessfully consumed if it were heated or cooked.     Incidentially,  I have pet ducks and goats,  and I noted at the feed store they have two  kinds of oats in 50 pound bags.
    One bag is called   OATS.   The other bag type is called RACE HORSE OATS for a few dollars more per bag.    I asked what was the difference and the guy said RACE HORSE OATS does not have the sticks and
    stones and misc chaff and has been thoroughly cleaned.  SO I will try to make sure to get the RACE HORSE OATS.   Still a hell of a lot cheaper than Kroger "Quaker Oats" brand.
     
    Leigh Tate
    author & gardener
    Posts: 401
    Location: Southeastern U.S.
    196
    goat cat forest garden foraging chicken food preservation medical herbs writing solar wood heat homestead
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator
    Scott, you're welcome. Research like the kind you're doing is right up my alley!

    The Weston Price article will explain it best, i.e. that neutralizing the phytic acid is achieved by activating the enzyme phytase, which is found in lactobacillus rich foods, so I guess it's not specifically an acid that's necessary, but something like yogurt or kefir.

    For the livestock oats, it's true, they are fussier for horse feeds. Tractor Supply Co carries something they label as "rolled oats," but it looks to me like plain oats. Not the rolled oats I associate with oatmeal. Yet it's priced higher than the plain oats.

    Not to get off-topic, but have you tried sprouting oats and wheat berries for your goats and ducks? I used to add barley too, when I could get it. Cuts down on the amount they need, increases nutrition, and they love it.

    Oh, and did you know you can get an oat roller to roll grain into flakes? Mine is similar to this one at Amazon -> steel hand-crank oat roller. A nice piece of equipment for the homestead kitchen.
     
    Scott Perkins
    Posts: 69
    7
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator

    Leigh Tate wrote:Scott, you're welcome. Research like the kind you're doing is right up my alley!

    The Weston Price article will explain it best,

    https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/vegetarianism-and-plant-foods/living-with-phytic-acid/
    .



    Leigh.    The Weston Price article seems credible  and thusly extremely scary.   I dont know why I am still alive or for that matter the majority of the world... only have kidding.    More than 75 percent of the world subsists on grains and complementary amino acid bean products for life sustaining protein such as soybeans and white rice,  cornbread and pinto beans,  Black beans and tortillas,  Red beans and rice, peanut butter on wheat bread etc.
    and it is somewhat shocking to me that in one of the most developed countries like the USA  the directions for preparation for all the dried beans and rice and corn products are if not wrong, at least way sub optimal.   The article shows that if you subsist majorly on beans and grains as a staple according to prep directions on the package, you will probably be under nourished in several ways.   For instance I have been a big proponent of cooking
    dried red beans without soaking in a pressure cooker for 12 minutes and thinking I had an optimal healthy nutritious meal l      I've seen that feeding kids lots of peanut butter sandwiches could be harmful.    I suppose one of the things we have become accustomed to in modern western society is rapid preparation methods of all the foods we eat.  This article I think shows that nearly everything that is quick,  could very sub optimal if not outright harmful.   The only reason I can think of for being reasonably healthy is that I also eat a lot of other foods ( too much in fact for my waist line )  which must be off setting the negative effects of all the PHYTIC acid.

    This whole train of thought kind of parallels another shocking revelation about the negative effects of consuming OXALIC acid greens such as spinach  which I figured was one of the incredible superfoods on the planet.
    I just watched too much POPYEE  as a kid I guess.
     
    master steward
    Posts: 3804
    Location: USDA Zone 8a
    1108
    dog hunting food preservation cooking bee greening the desert
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator

    Scott said I also did find out that all commercially prepared oats ARE cooked before packaging and if I recall it is to stop the action of enzymes from deteriorating the oats as they age.



    By cooked do you mean roasted?

    I knew the Quick or Instant Oats have been cooked and dehydrated like most quick food, such as instant rice.

    So I questioned your statement regarding steel cut oats.  They are roasted to give them a toasty flavor.
     
    Leigh Tate
    author & gardener
    Posts: 401
    Location: Southeastern U.S.
    196
    goat cat forest garden foraging chicken food preservation medical herbs writing solar wood heat homestead
    • Likes 1
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator

    Scott Perkins wrote:The Weston Price article seems credible  and thusly extremely scary.


    Scott, I know what you mean! I would highly recommend Sally Fallon's book, Nourishing Traditions.  She's actually the president of the Weston Price Foundation, and the book contains supportive science plus positive ways to incorporate a healthier diet, all along the lines of what we've been discussing.
     
    Scott Perkins
    Posts: 69
    7
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator

    Anne Miller wrote:

    Scott said I also did find out that all commercially prepared oats ARE cooked before packaging and if I recall it is to stop the action of enzymes from deteriorating the oats as they age.



    By cooked do you mean roasted?

    I knew the Quick or Instant Oats have been cooked and dehydrated like most quick food, such as instant rice.

    So I questioned your statement regarding steel cut oats.  They are roasted to give them a toasty flavor.



    By cooked I meant that the oats have been heat treated to inactivate the enzymes that cause rapid spoilage.   Heat treatment could be from steam, roasting, or baking evidently.
    At least that is what I understoood from the several technical articles that have been linked to.
     
    Scott Perkins
    Posts: 69
    7
    • Likes 1
    • Mark post as helpful
    • send pies
    • Quote
    • Report post to moderator

    Leigh Tate wrote:

    Scott Perkins wrote:The Weston Price article seems credible  and thusly extremely scary.


    Scott, I know what you mean! I would highly recommend Sally Fallon's book, Nourishing Traditions.  She's actually the president of the Weston Price Foundation, and the book contains supportive science plus positive ways to incorporate a healthier diet, all along the lines of what we've been discussing.




    I am a batchelor and everything I eat as staple items is based on quick and easy and nutritious.  Turns out that all my major focus staples are no longer quick and easy.   It could ALSO explain why a few months
    ago during my annual checkup my bloodwork showed a pronounced shortage of phosphorous  in my blood causing extreme fatigue  and resulting in high quantity dose supplements for two weeks to get the
    level back to normal.  Doc said if it wasnt caught I would have had severe bone weakening and other medical problems.   I believe it is because a year I cut way down on meat and started eating black beans and
    cornbread and red beans and rice prepared ( apparently ) in a way that retained all the phytic acid which blocks phosphorus absorbtion.   The doctor said in all his years of practice he had never seen such a low phosphorous level and ordered a 2nd test to verify.
     
    For my next feat, I will require a volunteer from the audience! Perhaps this tiny ad?
    Rocket Mass Heater Manual - now free for a while
    https://permies.com/goodies/8/rmhman
    reply
      Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
    • New Topic