Fire Protection: safeguarding our home and property

Wildfires, all over the world, seem to be becoming a more prevalent risk; most off grid homes do not have handy fire hydrants or are located where fire protection (fire departments) is sketchy to non existent - how do you protect your investment and safety?

Do you have smoke alarms and/or chemical fire extinguishers?

Woodstove/chimney safety?

Do you have an evacuation plan?

How will you evacuate/safeguard livestock?

Do you have water storage, pump, hoses to self defend or....?

Should we be building with fire safety in mind (metal roofs/siding vs wood)?

At what point, if any, does fire safety trump permaculture?

It seems that, most often, dealing with fire safety runs counter to permie philosophy - how do you balance this?

Logically, earth sheltered homes would be safer from external fire risk, but perhaps MORE dangerous if the fire were to occur internally.

Several years ago, our professionally built, inspected home suffered an electrical fire in the attic two years after we moved in. Although the damage was confined to a very small 4x4 foot area in the attic it required over 6 months to get the repairs done (through insurance):  new roof, new ceilings, new insulation, full rewire etc.  

We were fortunate to have "noticed" the odd noise, the very muffled sound of burning, that sounded like rain pattering on a tin roof (there was no smell, or visual indication of fire) - smoke alarms in the home did NOT detect it, no smoke alarms were required in the attic!

We also happen to be two blocks from the volunteer fire department AND have a hydrant very close by (that fortunately they did NOT have to use - they used foam so little to no water damage, but who knows about toxic gick!) and yet it cost tens of thousands of dollars in repairs and over six months off the property.

We and the animals were unscathed and we fortunately have local, tax funded fire protection...I fear the outcome would have been bankruptcy, harm to us and the animals and total loss of everything HAD we been in different circumstances.

Most of us do not have the financial wherewithal to recover from a fire; insurance for many is unavailable, local fire protection unavailable, and relocation impossible. Please think long and hard about this and how you can best protect your loved ones, the property, your hard work and your lifestyle.

I am about to move onto a brand new property that was barely spared from the huge LNU Complex fire in northern California. Maintaining your landscaping so that you have "defensible space" is critical. Here is good information on that:
https://www.readyforwildfire.org/prepare-for-wildfire/get-ready/defensible-space/
http://www.vfpd.net/prevention/cdf-defens_space.pdf

Most of my neighbors are on wells, which require electricity to pump water up. The grid was down by the time everyone was evacuating. So if you want to be able to stay and protect your home, you need to have a generator ready to start up at a moment's notice (or be off grid, but very few if any are around here).

Some people stayed and were able to protect homes by using tractors to create firebreaks or spraying water if they had a generator. Others who stayed (or didn't get enough notice about the fire) had to be evacuated by emergency personnel, which severely hampered their ability to protect property. It's a dicey situation.

So having defensible space and fire-resistant landscaping, to minimize chances that a wildfire even reaches your house, is the most important thing.

It seems that, most often, dealing with fire safety runs counter to permie philosophy - how do you balance this?
It would have been nice to be able to plant deciduous trees on the south and west sides of the house, to provide shade in summer. Unfortunately fire safety trumps this, and my house will be fully exposed to sun. I'd rather pay more for a/c than risk losing it all in the next wildfire.

Then there's home maintenance, like using fire-resistant materials, keeping gutters clean/covered, and blocking eaves so airborne embers can't fly under and take hold.

For inside the house, I have an appropriate fire extinguisher in an easy to reach place in the kitchen, and smoke alarms.

Absolutely everyone should have emergency evacuation plans for themselves and their pets and livestock, tailored for whatever disaster they're likely to be exposed to locally.

I have a lot if experience with what we call bushfires in Australia.

There are many theories from many experts about how to deal with bushfires.
As a Civil Engineer I have learnt to break the issue down into parts that everybody agrees on.
And them study different solutions for each issue.

Most people do not do that.
Lets start with this;
- What causes damage
Radiant heat, fire flame front, combustable materials, falling embers, broken windows
- Poor design of structure
 EMBER TRApS ON THE ROOF, unprotected weak windows, air gaps in the cladding or roof, wooden decks, nothing to prevent embers blowing under the house.
Completly unsuitable design for a fire prone area.
- Poor design of landscaping, location of structure on the property, or location of the district
 Structure located in natural firepaths. IE top of gully, top of hill,
- Lack of infrastructure
 No fire fighting water storage tanks at least 20,000L capacity and preferably 50,000l total storage or swimming pool.
 No sprinkler system to flood house and ground around the house, no petrol or diesel powered fire fighting pumps with adequate capacity.
Examples
Prepare for bushfire
I will get back later but other things to think of;
- Woolen clothing covering all skin
battery operated wireless or radio for information. Mobile phone towers always go down
- soak bath to keep clothes wet
- window screens which will not melt or blow in
- hand held fire hoes and fire rakes
- have vehicle prepared for escape, blankets inside, drinking water and plans for pets
- human refuge, underground or safe open area a long way from any vegetation
- animal refuge
- keep LPG, firewood away from house or shedding
- driveway design that allows vehicles to drive straight through so fire trucks dont get trapped
In my experience few take many precautions other than cleaning loose leaves around the property, they expect a phone call to tell them of the fire instead of learning how to find out yourself.
They have no fire plans, or predertimed escape route, they usually drive into a fire and perish.
Remember when there is a bushfire, smokes restricts visability, people are panicing, lots of peop[le have left too late so roads are packed and fire trucks cannot get through.
Accidents occur and roads get blocked and many people perish.

At what point, if any, does fire safety trump permaculture?

In my opinion, point zero.

But, I don't see a huge conflict of interest here. 100ft of space isn't all that hard to have while still practicing PC. In my defensible space are water collection tanks, a vegetable garden, flower beds, a tiny pond, a couple shrubs, bushes and fruit trees (not within "spreading distance"), storage sheds and the not yet operational chicken run. None of these raised the insurance inspectors hackles. Still, where I live if a "real" fire comes through there isn't going to be much anyone can do about it, defensible space or not

I sorta think that a well managed food forest is basically what you would get after a fire came through anyway. Good soil, healthy spacing and an effective succession system. Isn't that why the fire danger is so high and the forest health so low? No fire for 100 years? Just from looking at the difference between a well-developed food forest and the average (and also well-developed) tinderbox forest here in California keeps me working towards one of my own.

For home protection basics are clearing debris off your roof. If you have gutters (hopefully metal) install metal gutter guards. Plastic or vinyl gutters are highly flammable as are plastic gutter guards.

If you have a deck or a porch crawl space or just open below enclose with 1/8” hardware cloth (galvanized mesh), it keeps leaves from blowing in there. The hardware cloth also keeps flying embers out which are the main cause of houses burning down even with a defensible space. Embers or firebrands can travel over a mile.

Clean pine needles and leaves around the houses foundation.

Embers can also enter eave and gable vents through 1/4” metal hardware cloth, 1/4” is actually standard size in most stores. Buy some 1/8” mesh and cover over.

Make sure all your windows are closed before Evacuating.

I have a generator and a well. I have a small sprinkler ready to place on my wood deck. I’ve also read to leave some lights on in the house to ease firefighters locating your house because of low visibility due to smoke or darkness.

I’m in the Sierra foothills not far from the North complex fire and Jones fire which is now contained was only 10 miles away. The Jones fire destroyed 21 structures.

A couple of years I posted about why I bought a manufactured home. Another reason can be added. Hardi board siding and fascias. Also no eave vents or gable vents. All vents are capped roof vents.  I still haven’t checked to see what size metal mesh is on them. Didn’t think of that till I started this posting.

Stay safe, have an exit plan, a ditch bag, a livestock plan, and get all important papers or other things that important to you.

From my direction, if you live remotely, you cannot have too many fire extinguishers.    Years ago we had an old neighbor decide to burn the marijuana that was growing near the railroad track near his property. Of course, it was not on his property, it was not marijuana, and it was the dry season. I stepped outside to see a wall of flames headed my way. While my wife called the FD. I exhausted something like 17 fire extinguishers. The volunteer FD showed up after I got the flames on my property put out.  They still had plenty of work to do on some neighboring properties. I used the word neighbor loosely, the tracks were some distance away.

Many people have no idea about bushfire safety.
It happens often that people accidently set a bushfire off because they lit a fire to burn rubbish or make a cup of tea on a very hot day with a screaming wind, usually with plenty of dry vegetation around.
Its beyond belief.

And that is not mentioning the firebug either who does it deliberately.

Its an issue that needs to be dealt with I guess by education from an early stage of life.

Instead of extinguishers would a network of adequate pipes, a firepump and fire nozzles drawing from a 20,000L tank be worth looking at ?

Hi John,

I think darned near anything would be of benefit when things go wrong.  I happened to have that many fire extinguishers due to being at the right place at the right time.  A business was tossing a number of expired fire extinguishers that I pulled out of their dumpster.  Some of those 17 were mine, but most were from the dumpster.   Of course, ever since then, I have kept a good supply.  I also have a pump with a 2 inch hose so my pond can be used if needed.  

I guess if I found 17 extinguishers I would use them also.
I have used them with a few small fires, how do they compare with the firepump and nozzle system?

I would much prefer pumped water under good volume and pressure.  I did not have a pump at the time... so I used what I had.

my neighbor had a type of ram pump attached to his 180' well in addition to the electric pump down in the well. it had a large lever on top of well pipe casing that could also be geared with a gas engine. just saying there are options out there these days.
he was quite the prepper and always thought of back up plans.

Juniper Zen wrote:

So having defensible space and fire-resistant landscaping, to minimize chances that a wildfire even reaches your house, is the most important thing.

I would add my two cents, sad to say, but no trees within about 150 feet of house or if a tree could fall on house that would be cut to.   Also have not brush in same location around house.  Perfect to set up nice garden!

Grew up inSoCal, live in a log house, on the side of a hill, full of paper (books).

Fire is a terror for me. We’ve had one in the neighborhood, DH went out and helped the closest neighbor put it out before the volunteer FD got here.

I called the FD once when the neighborhood was full o smoke. Ends up a neighbor, up the hill, had decided to burn his garbage. Got into a screaming argument with the FD about it. No apologies from here. You fill the air with smoke, I’ll call the FD every time!

Utah also has wildfire recommendations. You can find their assessment portal, which unfortunately isn’t private. Here’s another resource

https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/Fire-causes-and-risks/Wildfire/Preparing-homes-for-wildfire

We have a pretty healthy wildfire burning about 14 miles from here.  It is incredibly dry here in Eastern Washington which is the largest physical portion of Washington State.

There are wildfires starting; large and small…all over the West.

I continually see people moving into our area that are unprepared to confront the type of dryness we are experiencing.

They have no green space.

They don’t understand that sending their kids out on 4 wheelers and dirt bikes with tall dry grass is a disaster.

They are still mowing their completely dry lawns.

They are still parking and driving off road.

Running chainsaws and equipment.

Believe it or not the last couple fires in our area were from CAMPFIRES!

Not only do I see people unprepared to protect their own homes during a wildfire disaster; they continually place my acres in danger by their actions.

I think we have an obligation to protect our property and the property of others and I am not hesitant to stop at a neighbors and tell them their actions place my property in danger.

It would take 30 minutes for the volunteer fire dept or DNR to reach my property and that’s a minimum time frame.
By then a fire would be well established.

It’s the summer from hell here; drier than I have ever seen it. I encourage all of you who live rurally to be vigilant.

Janet said, "I continually see people moving into our area that are unprepared to confront the type of dryness we are experiencing.

Have you explained the problems to them?  

Maybe putting some signs on your gates warning people of the fire dangers might help.  We have a sign on our gate with warnings.

Enlightening them would also benefit you and your other neighbors in the event of a fire.

I do address it with them when I see it happen.  I think addressing it sensibly is to the benefit of all is kinder than someone losing their place.  

Signs on our place would have no effect.  In this neighborhood we are all larger acreages.  You have to make an effort to get to my place or to see it.

I think trying to educate those who might consider homesteading or moving to rural areas would help.

It’s something we could all work on if we are in a dry area.

Coming into our little community, at any of the three accesses there is a "Fire Danger Rating" billboard. It also notes the burn ban in effect and has been at the highest level (extreme) for weeks.

On the news each night, wildfires are the top story. Every night they detail WHAT started the fire, and how it should never have happened (campfires, hot exhausts, tossed cig butts etc.). There is no lack of education or information, there is a lack of caring, in my opinion; everyone seems to feel they or their situation is an "exception".!

On the news last night a volunteer fire department nearby even did an on camera demo of tossing a cig butt on dry grass to SHOW how rapidly this can move from a grass fire to a brush fire to a raging wildfire in no time...this was a controlled burn on the dept property.

That is before you factor in al the other media, the local government bulletins and the ever present smoke.

This disregard is not ignorance, for the most part; it is entitlement...my land, my quad, my dirt bike I can do whatever the heck I want because I bought and paid for said land, equipment, cigarettes. This of course is my frustrated opinion, based on the fact that simple common sense (yeah, I know, ain't so common anymore!) should govern all these risky behaviors all by itself.

Well Lorrine I think that is a big part of it.  But I also see a great number of people moving into our area that have no inkling of how to live rurally.  And that’s what I was and am trying to address.

From learning to have back up power to learning to mitigate fire a lot of this folks are pretty green.

I take it upon myself and hopefully encourage others to kindly educate or just be blunt as I mostly am and let them know their behavior regarding fires puts us all in jeopardy.

J

Around here, any violation of the fire rules gets reported quickly. If the neighbors hear an ATV running or any large machinery, the police will be at your property quickly. You will get more attention for fire rule violations than you will for things like theft. And to my mind that's as it should be.

But as permaculture folk….when people want to “ homestead” and have never been exposed to rural living…how do we educate them?

This whole site is about teaching people.

“ I would have liked to plant deciduous trees on the south side but...”

This is a common misconception, but is explicitly countered with designs incorporating such trees by Mollison in lectures and the Manual. The concepts were proven effective in a devastating fire that burned pretty much everyone out around him while his property suffered only moderate damage. Many other examples of deciduous tree buffers saving structures exist, especially in Australia.

Healthy deciduous trees and vines like grapes will only burn well after our dry deadwood houses are already ablaze. It’s more likely the burning house will catch the trees on fire than vice versa. In the manual Mollison lays out a fire buffer downhill and upwind of the house that is made up of an outer row of sacrificial lillies and other moisture filled and succulent plants, with interior rows of hardwood deciduous trees like mulberries, hazelnuts, stone and pome fruits. These all came from fire prone environments and are adapted for survival. These trees (or grape vines) create a heat/radiation and flaming debris screen for the house  from the onrushing bush or forest fire likely fueled by dry pyrophytic grasses and conifers.  The leaves evaporate their moisture as they shrivel and do not really burn. This is demonstrated by how many vineyards and orchards that lost all their buildings and stored products still had very low mortality in their vines and trees. Of course right up against the house are a zone of 0fuels and then irrigated gardens (ideally using roof catchment) that further humidify the local area and evaporate moisture as the fire approaches. I also add trenches between beds  filled with woody debris and topped with woodchips, that double as swales/water storages and pathways. Wood in contact with the ground gets inoculated with fire retardant fungi, and these trenches stay moist all summer.

The basic idea is that live healthy deciduous trees (or old growth trees with thick fire resistant bark like Doug firs or redwood that are de-limbed below 12ft)  and other plants are far less flammable than a wood house, hold moisture from the wet season, and help keep groundwater available for everything downhill, in doing so keeping the conifers down hill that would be the main fire vector healthier and less flammable. Even a grapevine growing on your house is much more likely to burn from your house already being on fire than it is to catch the house, as it is full of moisture. Keep trees limb free for the lower 6-12ft, use duff and debris as mulch for irrigated gardens (it will be moist and full or fire retardant fungi), and think about species and what they are evolved for. Crating a baking dead area around our homes is not a long term generalizable answer.

I have my red card for wild land firefighting. Almost all the people fighting fires are awesome with great intentions and are working their asses off. However, like hardworking good intentioned farmers being led into the current clusterfudge that is mainstream ag,, much of their training and tactics are based on the same thinking that has created this catastrophically high fuel load by fire suppression. This alongside the predictable effects of logging 98% of old growth  being desertification (tens of billions of gallons of evapotranspiration per day were lost with the logging of the west coast of the us), has gotten us to where we are.. We need more healthy  forests, and more frequent fires, but I am not that hopeful that we can get policy and human behavior to navigate such nuance in the current sociopolitical environment. I am trying to do my part on my land and share what I learn along the way. Best of luck to you all in keeping your corner of the world green and abundant.

Ben, thank you for sharing that information. That is fascinating and heartening. I will have to look further into that. What book are the pictures from?

The pages are from Mollison’s Permaculture: A designer’s manual

I hope the rights holder considers it fair use, I own the hard copy the pictures are taken of.

Does anyone have experience with wildfire and berm/underground houses? Wofati?