• Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
permaculture forums growies critters building homesteading energy monies kitchen purity ungarbage community wilderness fiber arts art permaculture artisans regional education skip experiences global resources cider press projects digital market permies.com pie forums private forums all forums
this forum made possible by our volunteer staff, including ...
master stewards:
  • Carla Burke
  • Nancy Reading
  • John F Dean
  • r ranson
  • Jay Angler
  • paul wheaton
stewards:
  • Pearl Sutton
  • Leigh Tate
  • Devaka Cooray
master gardeners:
  • Christopher Weeks
  • Timothy Norton
gardeners:
  • thomas rubino
  • Matt McSpadden
  • Jeremy VanGelder

Pine shaving controversy

 
pollinator
Posts: 1144
Location: Iron River MI zone 3b
129
hugelkultur fungi foraging chicken cooking medical herbs
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thefeatherbrain.com/blog/toxic-chicken-coop-pine-shavings%3fformat=amp

Above is a link to a detailed article I just read about how toxic pine shavings are and how we should not use them as bedding. I’ve researched so many bedding options (we’re new to chickens and I tend to overthink things) and it seems that pine shavings are #1 choice for the majority of people, for many reasons. I know nothing is perfect and everything has a “downside”, but with that in mind, do you all feel this is being blown out of proportion, or should we really stop using pine? I want something that most importantly works for the chickens, but is also cheap/free and sustainable and compostable.

I have an abundance of red pines at home and access to shedded paper. I’m considering mixing pine shavings, shredded paper, dry pine needles, dry leaves and maybe straw so that there is diversity in the bedding materials.

Any thoughts or opinions? I’d love to hear them!
 
pollinator
Posts: 2916
Location: Zone 5 Wyoming
517
kids duck forest garden chicken pig bee greening the desert homestead
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I didn't read the article. I'm in an area where pine is it. I buy pine shavings and have used them for years and years. I am unaware of anyone dying because of htem. Recently the pigs decided they were going to break into the new bag and eat them too. They're still alive. So, pine is fine imo.
 
pollinator
Posts: 3786
Location: 4b
1370
dog forest garden trees bee building
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Like Elle, I've used pine shavings for years.  I've never seen any adverse effects.  I also raise baby chicks on them with no issues that I can see.

I will say that after reading that article, I may switch to wood chips for bedding.  I can't see using sand.
 
Posts: 1
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
i have used pine shavings for years never had a problem with it i haven't seen any thing change with my chickens i find it works really well really easy to clean up
 
gardener
Posts: 499
Location: Nara, Japan. Zone 8-ish
373
2
kids dog forest garden personal care trees foraging
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I skimmed the article and didn't really care for its dramatic, fear-inducing tone. Looking at the referenced papers down at the end, though, I actually just researched this topic recently and came across a lot of the same papers. Pretty much all the trees being milled around us are cedar, so we can get unlimited shavings and sawdust for free. Apparently, cedar is even more toxic than pine, so I looked through many papers to decide whether to use it as chicken bedding.

My personal conclusion is that, as with anything toxic, it depends on how much. With pine and cedar, they seem to become toxic when too much is breathed in or in direct contact with the skin. So my solution is to use less and to add straw on top in the nest basket so that none is touching the skin. We've had the chickens for a few weeks and they all seem fine. If any individual chickens had a particular sensitivity or allergy, I think it would be obvious by now.

Other ways to reduce toxicity are to let it dry well and air out. Our coop is made of cedar and the bedding is maybe one quarter cedar shavings mixed with rice hulls, and the coop doesn't smell like cedar. It doesn't smell bad either. Our winters are mild and the coop windows will stay open all year.

Of course, without comprehensive studies on chickens, we can't be sure. As the article pointed out, most studies are of sawmill workers breathing in freshly cut dust probably without the best ventilation or PPE, and lab rats and their pups, which are tiny and all skin. In contrast with the article, I don't think it's enough evidence to err on the side of caution and completely stop using pine or even cedar. I think it's something to be aware of. I think each breed and also each individual chicken will probably have a different threshold of tolerance to pine/cedar. So if one starts acting weird for no reason, it might be worth considering a pine sensitivity.

I poured a bag of cedar sawdust in the run to mix in with some soggy compost and, to my horror, the chickens started eating it! That was a couple weeks ago and they are all fine. I wouldn't worry about pine shavings.

Also, Caleb, Welcome to Permies!


 
gardener
Posts: 5178
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio,Price Hill 45205
1012
forest garden trees urban
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
    Number of slices to send:
    Optional 'thank-you' note:
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I would avoid them if you have to pay for them.
It sounds like you don't,  plus you have a ton of other stuff to use.
My chickens get either used rabbit bedding or bagged leaves.
The leaves are filled with creepy crawlies so that's what they prefer.
 
When people don't understand what you are doing they call you crazy. But this tiny ad just doesn't care:
turnkey permaculture paradise for zero monies
https://permies.com/t/267198/turnkey-permaculture-paradise-monies
reply
    Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic