Trying sunken bed for first time, any tips?

Hi,

small breakdown of the situation. I am in a semi-arid dryland shared garden in Malaga, Spain. Yes, no water. Here it rains around 550 mm a year, where not a single drop falsl in 4 months in summer. Rains can be as hard as 30 mm in one day. Then, temperatures are quite high in Summer, only drought tolerant plants can survive. On the positive side, temperatures are nice and it never frosts (we have some tomatoes still rippening), there's a constant breeze from being coastal, sometimes winds get to 30 m/s, but usually they are around 5-10 m/s. Humidity is very often at 70%, though in summer we have some very dry days, when the dry and hot northern wind hits. We have a few trees here, mostly fruit trees, but most of them are under 4 years old.

So my first attempt was to make a mini swale, trying to catch some rain stream. I prepared a 2 x 1,2m bed with an mini-swale attached to where I suspect some stream might come. For many days it rained, but only once did that rain go into the swale. From my observations, the stream collected water was negligible, however, while preparing the bed I added lots of mature manure to the first 10 cm of earth, and it helped to retain water much better. It wasn't sufficient for our plants to keep growing at a good pace. Another thing I noticed is that no puddles formed, even with the hardest rains, once the land got a bit of moisture. This is a very clayey red earth, so I wasn't very sure about its drainage capabilities, but it seems that it doesn't rain here that much that rain drainage is a concern. And I thought, why not sunken beds?

I've read some tutorials on these beds, and asked some people who had a few of these in their gardens, and I did the following:

I dug 1 m x 2 m x 40 cm (deep), facing south, in a flat area. I threw the dug earth to just one side, trying to build an elevated path 1 meter wide, with some slope towards the bed. I expect this path to be compacted enough to pour any rainwater into the bed. But trying to access the bed from the elevated face was hazardous, since it ended up with too much slope and too high, and the sticks I used to affirm the path were a bit slippy. Lesson learned, I'll replace this one sided path with two small paths of 50 cm each one surrounding the bed, so water rain is captured from both sides, instead of just one, and the slopes should be gentler.
To fill the bed I used again mature manure (since we have no other use for it right now), mixed with earth (2:1 ratio) and I added some shredded paper I happened to have too. In top of this mix, I added like 2 cm of compost. The resulting bed has 30cm deep, then another 10 cm to the ground level, then the surrounding paths (that function as berms) that give another 10 cm high. I expect the bed to raise in height once we start addind mulching.
To prevent the paths from absorbing water, I have some options: a few old cannes, some small branches from a pruning and maybe some salvaged planks from old pallets. Maybe some flat stones, too.

I have yet to modify the paths, I will post pictures once I've finished them.

Have anyone of you any experience with sunken beds? Anything else I should know before planting?

Check into what 'double digging' is, then try hugel (bury wood ___ under beds).    You have to get organics into the clay.  Beino suerto

Some pics

Michael Moreken wrote:Check into what 'double digging' is, then try hugel (bury wood ___ under beds).    You have to get organics into the clay.  Beino suerto

I've been advised not to do hugel on arid warm climates, something about decomposition stealing useful nitrogen for our plants, and also providing too much heat, which is something I want to avoid in order to preserve water.

I don't know how deep is double digging, but I've replaced 30cm of bare earth with a mixture of 2 parts of mature manure, 1 part of site's earth and some shredded paper, plus compost on top. It seems to me that the finished product is the same.

Small update.

Having all the earth poured in one side was a bad idea. While one side is nice to work on, the other is too high. So I'm splitting the earth in both sides, in 50 cm wide paths. Those paths will become 1 m wide once the next bed is dug.

Looks cool :)
I think your bed is a bit on the hot side. Probably it has more nitrogen than needed. It might not be a big deal though, sunken beds are more forgiving.
550 mm water is pretty damn good amount of rain. 3 to 4 months might seem changeling, but shade cloth and mulch should take care of much of your problems - in addition to sunken beds. I would prefer buried wood beds ( a type of hugelculture), as wood acting like a sponge to hold water. I would go for 60 cm deep at least. You can find all the details in buried wood bed tread, here is the link: burried wood bed . How long does it take to build, how deep, what to put etc. I would prefer that bwd's for your case.
Nitrogen issue is a common misunderstanding about hugels. It is not 100% true. The amount of nitrogen removed from soil is proportional to the surface area of wood, sawdust etc. So if it is large pieces, it only requires a small amount of nitrogen. While sawdust - a very large surface area- literally sucks up all nitrogen from the soil. In hugels, after a very limited amount of nitrogen steal, wood itself begins to decompose and add more nitrogen to the soil itself (by bacteria, roots, itself and so on). This initial removal is not significant, because you have to cover wood with a thick layer of soil. (by thick I mean 30 cm or so) Plant roots wont reach the wood layers in the first year -or very few of them-, so no robbing.
Wood does not heat up like manure do. Hugels heat up a bit, but not like compost does. Its overall carbon to nitrogen ratio is very high (also a lot of inorganic matter) and compared to compost 2 things: First it is in layers, it is not a uniform-ish mixture like compost. Secondly even though  it is covered with a layer of -20 to 30-40 cm thick soil, hugels breath. It will have large gaps, openings etc. It is a good thing - it tills itself. But it does not heat up like a compost pile. The initial heating will be moderate and go away in 2-3 months. After that it wont be much warmer than surroundings. It will passively hold heat during night and cool surroundings during day time - balancing.
Buried wood beds act a bit different than standard hugels in temperature wise. It will also heat up and than cool down initially depending on how much nitrogen you put in. If you put a lot of manure, it will act like a hot bed (not related to the amount of wood you put in). Since it is insulated on all sides except from the top, it will cool down slowly. Months. Does it matter? As long as you do not build your hugels in may, june, july, No! Its completely fine.

In full battle mode I would try to divert as much as surface water to your sunken bed, add wood to act like sponge, mulch heavily and use shade cloth. More water, more storage, less evaporation. Don't forget to mulch heavily for 4 month dry spell.

Also don't forget to fully soak your bed while- or after building it. It will jump start the whole thing.

Hope it helps. Sorry for typos.

Hi, I don't know your temps where you are but if you have an old window somewhere that setup would make for a great cold frame by putting the window on top.

Just an idea.


When searching the net or this site look for the terms

pit garden

walipini


Many use the pit method to help extend the growing season.      Some use hot compost to help keep it warm.

Welcome aboard.

s. ayalp wrote:Looks cool :)
I think your bed is a bit on the hot side. Probably it has more nitrogen than needed. It might not be a big deal though, sunken beds are more forgiving.
550 mm water is pretty damn good amount of rain. 3 to 4 months might seem changeling, but shade cloth and mulch should take care of much of your problems - in addition to sunken beds. I would prefer buried wood beds ( a type of hugelculture), as wood acting like a sponge to hold water. I would go for 60 cm deep at least. You can find all the details in buried wood bed tread, here is the link: burried wood bed . How long does it take to build, how deep, what to put etc. I would prefer that bwd's for your case.
Nitrogen issue is a common misunderstanding about hugels. It is not 100% true. The amount of nitrogen removed from soil is proportional to the surface area of wood, sawdust etc. So if it is large pieces, it only requires a small amount of nitrogen. While sawdust - a very large surface area- literally sucks up all nitrogen from the soil. In hugels, after a very limited amount of nitrogen steal, wood itself begins to decompose and add more nitrogen to the soil itself (by bacteria, roots, itself and so on). This initial removal is not significant, because you have to cover wood with a thick layer of soil. (by thick I mean 30 cm or so) Plant roots wont reach the wood layers in the first year -or very few of them-, so no robbing.
Wood does not heat up like manure do. Hugels heat up a bit, but not like compost does. Its overall carbon to nitrogen ratio is very high (also a lot of inorganic matter) and compared to compost 2 things: First it is in layers, it is not a uniform-ish mixture like compost. Secondly even though  it is covered with a layer of -20 to 30-40 cm thick soil, hugels breath. It will have large gaps, openings etc. It is a good thing - it tills itself. But it does not heat up like a compost pile. The initial heating will be moderate and go away in 2-3 months. After that it wont be much warmer than surroundings. It will passively hold heat during night and cool surroundings during day time - balancing.
Buried wood beds act a bit different than standard hugels in temperature wise. It will also heat up and than cool down initially depending on how much nitrogen you put in. If you put a lot of manure, it will act like a hot bed (not related to the amount of wood you put in). Since it is insulated on all sides except from the top, it will cool down slowly. Months. Does it matter? As long as you do not build your hugels in may, june, july, No! Its completely fine.

In full battle mode I would try to divert as much as surface water to your sunken bed, add wood to act like sponge, mulch heavily and use shade cloth. More water, more storage, less evaporation. Don't forget to mulch heavily for 4 month dry spell.

Also don't forget to fully soak your bed while- or after building it. It will jump start the whole thing.

Hope it helps. Sorry for typos.

Thanks for your detailed answer. Certainly I wouldn't have considered burying the logs that deep. With a layer of 30 cm between the decomposing material and the roots, it's reasonable what you said. That's a lot of work too, but I'm willing to do it if it pays off. I planned to bury prunning rests, but not on our beds, just for increasing organic matter in the whole terrain. Digging 60 cm by hand... oof. Did it work well in your location?

I was doubting about soaking the bed for the first time or just wait for the rain. Since January is a dry month, I'll follow your advice here.

About the 'full battle mode' (like the term), yes, that was the plan. For every linear meter of bed, there is another meter of rainwater catchment, as reccomended by Brad Lancaster with our rain amount. The soil has more organic matter than inorganic right now, it's not potting mix, but it's close. Mulch is planned for May. You see, in April we still have plenty of rain, but starting May there is more evaporation than rain, and starting July the terrain is completely dry. So I will not mulch before May so our seeds can germinate (a seedling slot is hard for us), then in May we will mulch heavily to see how long it does hold the water. If we don't have yields in August, well, that's life. I will satisfied if the earth doesn't become dust in August-September, so we can work it again in October.
I have some concerns on the shade cloth, though. That's made of plastic, not something I want to depend on.

Note: Iff you haed tipos I didnt' notyced.

Personally I find digging 60 cm - or 90-  deep easier than digging 30 cm. Since when digging 30 cm deep -with a pickaxe- you are digging top to bottom. It will be hard on your back. When digging 60 or 60 cm deep, I dig sideways as I stay in depression and pull dirt towards myself - by pivoting pickaxe upwards. I initially dig a 1,2 m wide, 1,5 m long 60 to 90 cm deep depression and put the dirt on the side. That's the hard part. It is 1,5 m long to maneuver. Then I fill the first 75 with wood logs and such (with a thickness of say 30-40 cm), and as I dig forward I put the excavated dirt on top of that. I add manure, smaller branches, leaves and what not as I layer dirt on wood. I continue to dig on contour, or almost on contour as long as possible. When the bed is complete I add amendments to the top layer. Finally I distribute the initial pile on the bed or put it in compost or in the chicken run. If I really need to dig 30 cm deep bed, I won't use a pickaxe. Broadfork or a good garden fork works better.

I recommend digging 60 cm deep, since the top 30 cm of soil is very sensitive to humidity, temperature, sun etc. The deeper 30 cm layer is more reliable to hold water. Give it a try, and see how it works.

Try to build long beds on contour or almost on contour. Or not on contour but build underground dams -30-50 cm thick vertical clay layers to hold the flow. It is easier to dig a longer single bed than many smaller depressions.

You can use plastic to divert more water to your beds. I know it is not permie friendly, but there are videos that large areas are covered with a plastic membrane and collected water is diverted to beds, fruit trees and such. You don't have to use plastic, if soil is compacted it will be impermeable too. You can use a sledgehammer to compact soil.

About shade cloth, permie way of shade cloth is palm trees. They are the best. Their roots might be very persistent though. To overcome that you can plant then in larger pots. You can also burry the pots, 30 cm deep and prune the roots as needed with a sharp shovel. You can also use their dead branches (is it called branch? leaves? I don't know) to cover a pergola like structure to create shade. You can plant some plants, flowers etc in to palm-pots too.

I don't like spending much on building beds, but if you have the budget you can add vermiculite to the top 30 cm layer.

Hope it helps.

A few more pics, now with pathways fixed.

Abraham,

I have used buried beds before.  I threw everything organic in that I could think of.  Eventually I did a sort of reverse huglekulture.  I had slightly raised beds made of fallen oak logs that were quartered.  This made the beds about 6” tall.  Over about 10 years the logs decayed into almost nothing so I dug up my bed, buried the remainder of the logs, some twigs, leaves and other organic debris and covered it all back up.  As far as I can tell that material is still decaying.

However, since then I converted that bed (again) into a raised wood chip bed.  The edges are 2x10 boards (10 inches/25cm tall) filled heaping full with Wine Cap mushrooms.  The wood chips drop several inches each year (1 inch=2.5 cm).  This may or may not be breaking down the buried wood, but as the beds are raised, it no longer matters.

At any rate your beds look good.  I would consider raising them if possible, but that is entirely your choice (I found that decayed wood chips really hold a good degree of water).

Good luck on your project, I expect good things!

Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:Abraham,

I have used buried beds before.  I threw everything organic in that I could think of.  Eventually I did a sort of reverse huglekulture.  I had slightly raised beds made of fallen oak logs that were quartered.  This made the beds about 6” tall.  Over about 10 years the logs decayed into almost nothing so I dug up my bed, buried the remainder of the logs, some twigs, leaves and other organic debris and covered it all back up.  As far as I can tell that material is still decaying.

However, since then I converted that bed (again) into a raised wood chip bed.  The edges are 2x10 boards (10 inches/25cm tall) filled heaping full with Wine Cap mushrooms.  The wood chips drop several inches each year (1 inch=2.5 cm).  This may or may not be breaking down the buried wood, but as the beds are raised, it no longer matters.

At any rate your beds look good.  I would consider raising them if possible, but that is entirely your choice (I found that decayed wood chips really hold a good degree of water).

Good luck on your project, I expect good things!

Eric

Thanks for your support.

We already have a raised bed in other part of the garden, and it is irrigated (not holding water for long, though) but since we don't have water for more than two beds, I wanted to test how far we can go with no watering at all but the rainfall. That would be the only way to make use of the land we are leased other than creating an orchard.

I think I have to re read your comments, I am not sure what you really want to expose. I get that you are all sold on hugelkultures around here, but I would take it more confidently from someone with a similar climate.

Next bed I promise to try some buried logs and see how it performs, we are going to prune a few trees next month anyways, but right now this sunken bed is already seeded and we are hoping for the best.

Abraham,

I saw what appeared to be sticks/wood in or near your bed.  I assumed that you were burying the wood which is sort of a sunken hugelkulture bed.

I personally never really got into the true hugel mounds, but I truly believe in incorporating wood into the garden.

Sorry if I was confusing.

Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:Abraham,

I saw what appeared to be sticks/wood in or near your bed.  I assumed that you were burying the wood which is sort of a sunken hugelkulture bed.

I personally never really got into the true hugel mounds, but I truly believe in incorporating wood into the garden.

Sorry if I was confusing.

Eric

Oh, I understand now. No, I didn't want to decompose these sticks, they are just there for diverting water towards the sunken bed in case the dirt is not compacted enough. In fact, I preferred some wood planks but I don't have them right now. Probably not the smartest thing in my design. A colleage has proposed to put some marble tiles we happen to have for that purpose but I am afraid it will be too slippery. Maybe with the rough side up it could work.

I see Abraham.

Well, burying the bed will likely help preserve water during the dry months.

I have a couple of other thoughts.  I can get some pretty brutally hot summers and summer droughts occasionally happen.

If you want to make a ground level bed or even a slightly elevated (a few centimeters) bed, one technique is to plant the garden and then place newspaper everywhere except where the desired plants are growing.  Then cover the newspaper with straw (wood chips can work as well) and soak down with a hose.  The soaking is not strictly necessary, but it does help adhere the straw, paper and ground together so they don’t blow and move around.  Also, it makes it easier for any rain to soak through.

Doing this has several benefits.  Weeds stand no chance as they don’t get light and can’t push through the paper.  The paper and straw cover and shade the ground so that water does not evaporate as easily.  Bare ground is about the worst thing you can have as too much sun and wind gets through to dry out the ground and only weeds like those conditions.

At any rate, these are just my ideas and if you like them, great—we can discuss more.  If not, don’t worry, it’s totally your garden and your call.

Eric

Eric Hanson wrote:I see Abraham.

Well, burying the bed will likely help preserve water during the dry months.

I have a couple of other thoughts.  I can get some pretty brutally hot summers and summer droughts occasionally happen.

If you want to make a ground level bed or even a slightly elevated (a few centimeters) bed, one technique is to plant the garden and then place newspaper everywhere except where the desired plants are growing.  Then cover the newspaper with straw (wood chips can work as well) and soak down with a hose.  The soaking is not strictly necessary, but it does help adhere the straw, paper and ground together so they don’t blow and move around.  Also, it makes it easier for any rain to soak through.

Doing this has several benefits.  Weeds stand no chance as they don’t get light and can’t push through the paper.  The paper and straw cover and shade the ground so that water does not evaporate as easily.  Bare ground is about the worst thing you can have as too much sun and wind gets through to dry out the ground and only weeds like those conditions.

At any rate, these are just my ideas and if you like them, great—we can discuss more.  If not, don’t worry, it’s totally your garden and your call.

Eric

This is helpful, thanks. You and ayalp both say to soak it first even before it rains, and I see the logic in it. We don't have enough water to use a hone, but I can bring a refilled with drinking water 8 liters plastic bottle twice a week, I hope that will be enough.
Paradoxically, since I work in an office, I have a source of cardboards and shredded paper, but the colleagues in the garden dislike seeing anything unnatural. They do mulch, but only with grass cuttings, meaning we have to wait until May, when grass is tall. This is not so bad as it looks, April is the raining month here, so the terrain will most likely be soaked by early May.
Another issue we face is that we don't have a proper seedling place. Last year (I wasn't still here), in the shared garden they had a shaded table where they seeded some small pots before planting the seedlings, but then came the lockdowns, the fresh water access was cut (they weren't paying for it!!), and even this summer we got that table and shade cloth broken by some partying people that tought it funny to smash it into pieces. I'm trying to find a solution by setting a new inground seedling slot, somewhere that is naturally shady and wet, that would be my next project.

You see, working in a shared garden has these drawbacks, you can only work a couple of hours a couple of days a week, and every new project must be approved in assambly, which is held monthly. December project was the sunken bed. January project is a prunning workshop. So the seedling slot probably will be in February, if lockdowns don't make a comeback. I am not allowed to purchase seeds, even if they are the ecological ones (not hybrid or modified), any seed must come as a gift from other gardeners in our local area (which I have no acquaintance), or obtained by vegetables ecologically grown in our county.
The positive aspect is that I don't pay a cent, it's very close to my apartment and that they are allowing me to experiment. I must say I am having fun.

First time I saw Geoff Lawton preparing a bed I thought I wanted to do the same: a cardboard, a mulching layer, make a hole then plant. I brought my cardboards, and my shredded paper from the office to use as mulch, but I didn't have the seedlings. Or the water. We have a well stocked seed box in the garden locket though. The other people don't want to use shredded paper for mulch, they say it's ugly, that's why I am burying it. They won't matter about the cardboard as long as it does not show. But the biggest disadvantage of the cardboard is that, since I can't provide seedlings, I must seed directly in the bed. So I am opting for plan B. Instead of cardboard and mulch, I am trying intensive seeding. I am putting many more seeds than needed, hoping that the plants will cover the bare ground themselves fast, then clearing a bit when the space become too cramped. I tried this technique in a big pot in my apartment terrace and it works beautifully. It's great to use it with lettuces, where you remove a few leaves instead of removing the whole weaker plant.

All of the above is not directly related to the sunken bed, so your tips were good advice. It's just that our circumstances are peculiar and I am limited by several factors: job, family, other gardeners, money, knowledge and time in the personal; water, tools, infrastructure, resources in the place.

Following s. ayalp advice, I'm making an improved version of this bed.

First off, I've been very critizised in the garden for the looks of this previous bed, that looks like a tomb. I don't mind it looking like a tomb, but I've come to think that this is a garden, not a farm, thus it should look like a garden, not a farm, and these bed rows are very farm alike. I had to change the shape. Preferably to something that can be patterned and replicated over and over.
Another issue I was facing is that it takes some time and effort for us to dig and mix, so smaller beds are easier to produced, but on the other hand, if the bed is too small it's difficult to make it behave as a food forest.

To achieve a microclimate, round or square shapes are better than long rectangles. Round shapes are nice, but the workable area is very small if we have to reach the center at 50cm. Square works somewhat better for the area, but again, it is a very formal shape, not something we want for beauty. So I've decided to try triangles. They are still quite formal, but it's not so evident as in square beds. In addition it makes very nice pathways: a few that go across the garden, and then some branches to the sides, making for a very effective movement around the garden.

Then it was the matter of measuring the size of these triangles.
The bed must be as big as we can reach the center with our arms, that's an apotheme of 50 cm. With this measure, I can build an equilateral triangle of side 1,76 cm. When I drew it on the ground, it looked really small, so I decided to make it slightly larger, up to 2 m side. The apotheme is now 60 cm, meaning it is hard to reach the center since the bed is below ground level, but admittedly, the area that stands out of reach is very small compared to the workable area. I also wanted pathways area to be as large as the beds, since it is my rainfall catchment area. That gives an outside triangle of 3m side, and the pathways will end up being of 60 cm.
These are round and easy to remember numbers, so I'll go for it.

I marked one 3m triangle with stakes and rope, and we're currently digging at 30 cm from the marked outside triangle. The dug triangle is of 2m side. It's taking more time than I expected since there are some big rocks below, but they are falling apart. We want to reach the 90 cm depth mark, as reccomended by ayalp, who has done something similar before.
While we dig, we are also preparing the prune cuttings. You can see in the pictures the prune rests of this year and our friend cleaning leaves from the prunned branches. All of them will go buried, except our friend, into the bed. Since our garden friends don't understand hugelkulture talk, I just explain to them that we are making mulch, using the terrain humidity which is the only water source we can afford.

In the other picture we see another friend in the process of chopping rocks inside the dug bed.
I estime that we have enough prunings for a couple of beds this year, hope we can build at least one of them before spring.

I've been askied by my gardener colleages that I explain what is this triangular bed all about. So I've gathered some theory here to expose the basics.

The soil.
It is going to be prepared as a buried hot bed. A 90 cm depth hole, filled with layers of cut branches enveloped by dirt that has been cleaned of stones. The last 30 cm is just dirt with some manure/compost. Mulch when needed. Since we don't have a source of water, we will let the humidity of the terrain decompose the branches that will become organic matter mixed in the soil. This will help to retain water at the root level. Compost will bring life to the soil, helping plants to find resources, and shadow/mulches will prevent surface evaporation. Known stuff by here.
The top layer of the bed is under ground level, where there's more humidity and the excess dirt is used to create a berm. This berm has two functions. It will protect the ground from the heat by a microclimate effect of an enclosed patio, and it will serve as a rainfall microcatchment area.

The bed shape.
The triangle is a very basic shape that is both compact to maximize the microclimate effect and area efficient. It has a large working surface compared to the apotheme (the shortest distance to the center, meaning the zone we can reach with our arms). The maximum size of the planted area is a triangle of 2m side, so we can reach the center at 60 cm from outside. The berm could be shorter, but I set it to be 30 cm so when it combines with the berms of the adjacent beds, it creates pathways of 60 cm width. The catchement area is slightly bigger than the planted surface, which is right for our precipitation amounts.

The bed layout.
Equilateral triangles can be distributed in a grid that has three lines. One of them will cross through the property length, the other two will zigzag, making a very efficient movement for people. It also looks nice and less formal than it actually is.

Hope the pictures will make sense of all of it.

Small update.
It's been hard work, but the hole is already dug and the branches are almost ready to bury. We need to clean the earth from stones before burying though.

Filling with branches.

It is raining every few days, so I can't work the soil as fast as I would like. I have to wait until the earth is not wet.

Fast update.
The bed is already filled with branches, dirt, some manure, more dirt, some compost and more dirt. There's still roughly 15 cm to the berm. I've poured some water, but not enough. Hope it will rain well next month.

Hi, good news.
The triangular bed is now on production and a second one is on its way. Had to stop due to heavy rains. That's the best reason to stop digging :D

I love May!
This is the same bed, one month after being completed. Still no irrigation. I don't expect that pumpkin to survive summer's heat, but man, it's gorgeus.

Abraham,

Your reverse hugel mound looks pretty good, and the pumpkin looks great!  I am curious as to how this experiment works out.

Eric

Here's what it looks like just at the end of spring, more than one month since the last day it rained. Mulch has not been heavy and we weren't able to place any shade that stands the winds (it would have required too much work).
The pumpkin has dried and burned as expected, the tomato plants have a bad face, but they are producing a few small tomatoes, I would be surprised if I actually can harvest some. Sorghum, on the other hand, looks good.

Just for comparison, we have an urban garden market in the neighborhood, they had big big tomatoes, but the water supply was cut, and now all their tomatoes are lost before harvest (or so they said). Ours are still alife...