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Functionality: C&P pics from Teh Interwebs?

 
                    
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Is there any way we could get the functionality to copypaste pictures from elsewhere on the internet? It is soooo much easier than the enormous PITA that is the current process... I just edited my message fifteen million times (might be exaggerating a little there) to try to get these freely-available Wetland Pots to show up from the Flickr set and NOTHING WORKED. Had to leave it as an uber-boring URL. Here's the post: https://permies.com/t/15465/permaculture/Who-built-tiny-pond

The workaround process of download-save-find host site-upload-come back here-mess with clunky HTML tags until it works (maybe) is so offputting that it really doesn't happen much, does it? This does not enhance user experience... as a matter of fact, I've been rather frustrated with this lack since day 1. Permaculture isn't text, but this lack forces many to limp around using words to describe physical things.

A picture is worth a thousand words.
 
Mother Tree
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testing...



It seems to work if you right click the image, then select an appropriate size to display, right click the new image, select 'copy image location', and then paste that in to the pop-up that appears when you press the [Img] button when you're trying to post a message.
 
                    
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Burra Maluca wrote:testing...

It seems to work if you right click the image, then select an appropriate size to display, right click the new image, select 'copy image location', and then paste that in to the pop-up that appears when you press the

Hm. So this is the process:

1) Find interesting image
2) Click around until one finds the exact url if it exists <<BARRIER TO ENTRY
3) Copy URL
4) Come back here
5) Check/Change insertion point
6) Choose a badly-labeled HTML tag to insert image <<BARRIER TO ENTRY
7) Deal with popup (not allowed by many browsers/security programs)
8 ) Click OK
9) Try to figure out HTML code: is it in the right place? Will it look OK? <<BARRIER TO ENTRY
10) Test/submit

instead of

1) Find interesting image
2) rightclick, COPY
3) Come back here
4) rightclick, PASTE
5) Test/Submit


... as I said, there aren't a lot of pics on these forums and this is the reason why. One process is twice as long and absolutely requires specialized technical knowledge; the other is commonly used around Teh Interwebs and most image-enabled programs. Results of current system: frustration, lack of expository information, userbase not as engaged, but nobody needs to worry about upgrading the system to this functionality or educating on the new functionality.

I'm glad that the Permaculture books I learned with weren't this difficult to access.

 
steward
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I am using Firefox browser, others may vary.

I went to Wikipedia, found a picture, and right clicked it.
I chose the "Copy image location" option.
Came back here, & opened this "Reply".

Then I clicked on the Img button, hit my paste button, and the picture magically appears in my post.

If it was any easier than that, it would probably be illegal

 
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Cool, I'm learning more new stuff!
Is linking to the original site the only way to access the magnification/slideshow blahblah on the flickr site that PT linked?
Know what I mean? I'm working on this computer thingy, but I don't know which words to use
 
Burra Maluca
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Flikr seems to be set up so that the first picture that shows up can't be copied and neither can the URL. Maybe choose a better a place to upload your photos. I used to use photobucket, now I just use facebook. You can upload directly to Permies too, I think, but I've never fiddled with it.

Just copying and pasting the photo itself would usually be a breach of copyright, and would probably involve a completely different way of writing up posts, more like a word-processor.
 
                    
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John Polk wrote:I am using Firefox browser, others may vary.

I went to Wikipedia, found a picture, and right clicked it.
I chose the "Copy image location" option.
Came back here, & opened this "Reply".

Then I clicked on the Img button, hit my paste button, and the picture magically appears in my post.

If it was any easier than that, it would probably be illegal



Now pretend you're like at least half the posters on here and don't even know the difference between mouse buttons. What makes it "easy" is your knowledge. When that knowledge is not universal, the process is not easy.
 
Burra Maluca
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You could always upload photos directly to Permies. That way you won't have to worry about Flickr at all.

When you're making a post, click on the 'Attachments' tab underneath the box you enter text in and browse til you find the file you want to upload.

Copying and pasting pictures from the internet isn't really an option. Like John said, it's not really legal so forum software doesn't allow for it.
 
                    
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Burra Maluca wrote:You could always upload photos directly to Permies. That way you won't have to worry about Flickr at all.

When you're making a post, click on the 'Attachments' tab underneath the box you enter text in and browse til you find the file you want to upload.

Copying and pasting pictures from the internet isn't really an option. Like John said, it's not really legal so forum software doesn't allow for it.



1) Technical barrier to entry means lack of posts -- complicated is complicated, no matter how ya'all try to paint it colors.
2) The DMCA requires holders of the copyright to file complaints when their stuff is used improperly. It is not the 3rd party (YouTube, Permies.com)'s job to keep all their pics in line. Therefore users reposting copyrighted media is not illegal.
3) It is entirely possible to put pics up NOW that are copyrighted using existing forum processes. I'd do it just to prove it so, but that's against my personal code of ethics. Permies.com's current processes don't keep things legal, they just make it frustrating.
 
Burra Maluca
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That's why Paul asks that if you do post third party pics, you also post a link to the original source.

If someone really can't figure out which mouse button is which, maybe they should take a course. Personally, I can't tell left from right, but I do consistently use my right hand for my mouse and have it set to be right handed. But assuming that the mouse is set correctly for whichever hand you use, to get the URL of most photos on the internet, click the button that is not the 'normal' one, ie the one that is not under your index finger.
 
steward
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We do make changes to the software to make it more useable. In fact, some of the recent changes have been around usability. So I'm trying to understand what exactly is wrong with the current process of pointing to online images. From what I gather in this discussion, you want the following to work:

P Thickens wrote:

1) Find interesting image
2) rightclick, COPY
3) Come back here
4) rightclick, PASTE
5) Test/Submit



And John then explained that it does work that way currently:

John Polk wrote:
I went to Wikipedia, found a picture, and right clicked it. <== This is what P Thickens mentions as step 1
I chose the "Copy image location" option. <== This is step 2
Came back here, & opened this "Reply". <== step 3

Then I clicked on the Img button, <== a step which isn't mentioned in P Thickens' expected way, to point to images
hit my paste button, and the picture magically appears in my post. <== step 4



So if I understand this correctly, the only step that differs is clicking on the img button. Is that what your concern is?
 
                    
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test.



http://www.keepdesigning.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/flower-vectors-keepdesigning-com.jpg

wildgeraniums-026.JPG
[Thumbnail for wildgeraniums-026.JPG]
wild geranium bloom
 
                    
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Jaikiran Pai wrote:So if I understand this correctly, the only step that differs is clicking on the img button. Is that what your concern is?



No. My concern is that this forum's user interface is doing what all outdated software does: creates a barrier between the expert and the noob via a complex interface. This makes the expert feel superior... which does not encourage the expert to make the interface easier to use. The current interface requires an understanding of the poorly-labeled buttons above every post, post construction, and HTML. Many people do not have even one of these. To expect that posters understand what an "ih-mm-j" button means and how it affects putting pictures into a post is like expecting that people understand there is a connection between mycorrhizae and abundant blossoms. We can't all be experts in everything.

Many forums allow a WYSIWYG editor, which would be very very useful here. That is because this forum is by definition a place where people gather who want to learn about real physical things. Real physical things that would be marvelously explained through pictures: a picture is worth a thousand words, right? Well, make it easier to add pictures and the conversations on here will flourish!

Ease of use encourages use.
The Permies Forum posting interface is not easy to use.
Therefore Permies Forum posting interface discourages use.
This can be remedied.
 
Burra Maluca
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Well I don't have a clue on HTML and I've never coded anything in my life, and I still managed to figure it out. The first time I posted a picture anywhere I had to get a programmer to help me chop it up into sixteen little pieces, email each of them off separately because the emails would be too big otherwise, and get her to stick them back together again at the end. And I think the eight shades of grey got mis-translated into random colours and she ended up with a psychadelic horse photo with the bottom right hand corner all garbled.
.
I'm guessing that creating a what-you-see-is-what-you-get set up for posting forums is going to be exceedingly time consuming, heavy on the processing power, and completely crap for anybody that has a different sized screen to the one the original poster uses.

The whole board is run and programmed by volunteers - I guess if a suitable volunteer felt like offering his services to produce the WYSIWYG set up then maybe Paul would consider it, but I suspect it's not really a good idea even then. Are you offering to go on the team of volunteer programmers?

And even so, the idea of copying and pasting photos isn't really OK. It's stealing!

[IMG] is short for IMAGE, by the way, for anyone who can't figure out the labels on the buttons.

 
steward
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flickr hides jpeg urls. if you found an easy way to copy and paste flickr photos on another forum, I hope you'll share it.

a fairly easy way to share photos from flickr: install a browser plug-in that unmasks jpegs.

a not terribly easy way: ctrl+u, ctrl+f, type "static", press enter a couple of times, then copy the url.


the terminology chosen for the title of this thread suggests a more than passing familiarity with things electronical...
 
                    
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Hm. I did some research. What I want is called either an Advanced Interface or a Rich Text Editor (RTE) (as opposed to what I bet Permies is using for posting forms: the "Standard Editor - Extra formatting controls"). JForum doesn't appear to currently have RTE options, but considering JForum is opensource and this functionality is spreading from Word to vBulletin to practically every social networking interface out there, it's probably only a matter of time.


Burra Maluca wrote: I'm guessing that creating a what-you-see-is-what-you-get set up for posting forums is going to be exceedingly time consuming, heavy on the processing power, and completely crap for anybody that has a different sized screen to the one the original poster uses.



Nope, it works great. Same as putting pictures into Word (I think it's a little easier, because, you know, it's WORD for goshsakes). Pic editing through RTE is easy on processing power, too, because the RTE looks at your image, finds out JUST the URL, and wraps it in image tags for you when you hit SUBMIT. The software then reads that URL and displays it on your browser... right where you placed the picture in your post. No server space required, no coding knowledge, no barrier to entry. Quick and easy, like we all wish taxtime could be.


Burra Maluca wrote: The whole board is run and programmed by volunteers - I guess if a suitable volunteer felt like offering his services to produce the WYSIWYG set up then maybe Paul would consider it, but I suspect it's not really a good idea even then. Are you offering to go on the team of volunteer programmers?



Unless it's Atlassian Markup I suck. I used to code HTML straight, and then got sucked into hosting the company's wiki on a box under my desk and Markup pushed HTML out of my head. I still think of || for tables instead of cellpadding. So I'm useless for coding, but I'll poke around, see what I can find.
 
                    
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tel jetson wrote:flickr hides jpeg urls. if you found an easy way to copy and paste flickr photos on another forum, I hope you'll share it.



It's EASY with an RTE. This is the crappy workaround I found to deal with Permies' coding restrictions:


* Open pic in Flickr.
* Look just above the picture for the SHARE button. Click on it.
* Click on GRAB THE HTML CODE
* Highlight the whole link (the thing that starts with htt)
** Copy it by either
*** right-clicking and going to COPY or
*** holding down the CTRL and C keys at the same time
* Paste that link anywhere you want by putting your insertion point where you want it and either
** right-clicking and going to PASTE or
** holding down the CTRL and P keys at the same time
* Find just the link to the picture (starts with htt and probably ends with .jpg) and delete everything else
* Now one can deal with the next step, which is as laid out above for the Permies forum.

 
Burra Maluca
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Whoa - whole thing just went straight over my head...
 
                    
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Burra Maluca wrote:Whoa - whole thing just went straight over my head...



And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is a perfect example of why an easier user interface would benefit Permies.
 
Burra Maluca
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Er, I can use the interface fine.

And I figured out how to post images from flikr within a minute or two of you asking.

It's all that other stuff that meant nothing to me. I'm sure the way I found to post flickr stuff was easier than the rather convoluted way you found.

Maybe too much geek-speak is what's holding things back? I just fiddle until I find a way to do things.
 
steward
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Can you show an example of forum software that has this capability? If so, then we may be able to work out what they are doing and retrofit it.
 
                    
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Andrew Monkhouse wrote:Can you show an example of forum software that has this capability? If so, then we may be able to work out what they are doing and retrofit it.



vBulletin's WYSIWYG is the most prominent I know of. Atlassian's suite does it as well, and a few other more obscure (I hear that Facebook can do this but I don't touch Facebook with a 20-foot pole, so sorry).

Thank you, Andrew, for showing interest. It kinda felt like I was pissing in the wind and pissing people off all at once.
 
                    
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How to post your picture, from your computer files to MY PROFILE PAGE PICTURE (the picture on your profile, that everyone can visit on your profile page & see the picture. You don't have to have a flicker or facebook or whatever...simply post your picture as an attatchment into any permies forum message. Once the picture has been approved & posted by the staff, find the posted pix in the threaded responses. Right click on the posted picture, from the menu find: 'copy image location' ...click that... now you have the image copied, now go to MY PAGE PROFILE, find the menu "GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT YOURSELF" click the (+button) and find various fields, some says msn or yahoo or whatever, find the field marked PICTURE, see the open field on the right side of the page...click that. Then once you have clicked on the PICTURE FIELD, right click within the field and find a menu, select PASTE. A little hyperlink should now appear in your picture filed. Your almost...but not done yet....scroll to bottom of page, enter the security code & then the submit button...to save your picture to your profile page.

I'm adding another pix here so I can change 'my profile page picture' to something more exciting than a geranium.

james beam;)
spring2012-005.JPG
[Thumbnail for spring2012-005.JPG]
 
Andrew Monkhouse
steward
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P Thickens wrote:

Andrew Monkhouse wrote:Can you show an example of forum software that has this capability? If so, then we may be able to work out what they are doing and retrofit it.



vBulletin's WYSIWYG is the most prominent I know of.



OK - that looks do-able. vBulletin uses CKEditor, so it is at least feasible. Now it is just a matter of getting someone to work on it. I'll bring this up with the group of volunteers who make changes to the site, and see what they they think.
 
                    
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Thanks again Andrew.

Something fun about attribution and crediting sources: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPtH2KPuQbs&feature=relmfu
 
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