I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
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A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
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Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
Michael Cox wrote:In a deep litter system, ammonia tends to mean that the nitrogen from their poop is overwhelming the carbon in the litter. You probably need a substantially deeper litter layer.
What type of chips are you using?
It looks from your photos like your coop arrangement is very low. How do you get inside the area to turn the chips over?
Deep litter methods require some regular disturbance to move the chips around and incorporate the fresh poop into the layer. Are your birds doing that? You said they were small, so perhaps they are simply not big and strong enough to do the job. If so you need to be regularly turning the chips over to incorporate the poop and disturb any areas that might be turning damp and anaerobic.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Phil Stevens wrote:Hi Lori - I use biochar in my chicken coop and a friend of mine uses it in her quail pen. It stops ammonia formation almost instantly in a deep litter system. If you can get your hands on biochar, or just some good quality charcoal, give that a go and see what you think. I'd recommend a wood chip mulch with about 5-10% biochar by volume, stirred around every few days to keep it aerated.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Skandi Rogers wrote:Even with "deep" litter you still need to change it. The smaller the system the harder it is to get a balance, each of your birds has 1.6sqr foot of bedding? Think of that as cat litter, I would expect to be changing that amount of bedding every week. I think I would be inclined to go the other way, put in a hard floor and give it a light covering in chips which you then sweep out twice a week.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Trace Oswald wrote:I use deep litter, and I don't change it. Ever. I do take part of it out as I need it.
Phil's idea about biochar is right on. It works really well. Make sure it is at least a tiny bit damp, or turn it into the litter when the birds aren't out so they don't breath the dust.
I think the main problem is that the run area is far too small. Even a couple birds may overrun an area that small.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Phil Stevens wrote:Hi Lori - I use biochar in my chicken coop and a friend of mine uses it in her quail pen. It stops ammonia formation almost instantly in a deep litter system. If you can get your hands on biochar, or just some good quality charcoal, give that a go and see what you think. I'd recommend a wood chip mulch with about 5-10% biochar by volume, stirred around every few days to keep it aerated.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Lori Ziemba wrote:
the whole thing is 60" x 41". The pen part is 40x40. That's 2.5 sq, ft. per 8oz. bird. Do you think that's not enough? I was wondering about that. I have been trying to figure out a way to expand the pen over to the right side, without it costing a fortune or looking bad. It has to look decent, since I'm sort of squatting in the yard without real permission. I can put together a kit like this pen, but actually building stuff is a little beyond me.
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
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Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
It's very easy to extend a run that is built like that. I promise, you can do it :) Say you wanted to make the run part 8 feet longer. All you would need to do is take off that end wall on the far right, extend those 1"x2" pieces of wood (at least, that's what they look like in the picture) that form the bottom and top frame by adding some 8' pieces, and nail the wall back on.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Lori Ziemba wrote:
Wow! Full sized chickens? What do they weigh, about 5 lbs? Hmmm. That makes roughly 10 quail. 10 quail in 16 sq, ft is 1.6 sq. ft. per bird, which is less than what I have. I can't let them out. Quail don't free range, plus, my landlady would find out and blow a fit.
It's very easy to extend a run that is built like that. I promise, you can do it :) Say you wanted to make the run part 8 feet longer. All you would need to do is take off that end wall on the far right, extend those 1"x2" pieces of wood (at least, that's what they look like in the picture) that form the bottom and top frame by adding some 8' pieces, and nail the wall back on.
I was thinking of that. But what about the top? It would need some kind of roof, preferably something that allows light in. Wire would need a square frame. The most I could extend it to the right is 45".
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
All the soil info you'll ever need:
Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
Trace Oswald wrote:
I don't really know if a simple bodyweight conversion equates to the amount they poop, but maybe it does. I would think 10 quail would leave more manure than one chicken, but I don't really know.
If you want a top on the extension, I would just use 6 mil plastic and staple it to the boards that extend the coop.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Phil Stevens wrote:But don't start off with saturated material, because the absorption of high-nitrogen moisture is how the ammonia inhibition works.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Lori Ziemba wrote:
But what about predators? Won't they just rip or chew thru that? And how would I get in there to clean?
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
All the soil info you'll ever need:
Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Susan Wakeman wrote:I tried different deep litters in my quail setup and the best was the following:
I had big planters I grew tomatoes in during the summer. In the winter, I'd let them dry out, then sieve out the bits larger than 1 cm or so. This used soil I put in the quail pen. I'd take out the "pooped" soil when it got too full, back into the tomato planters for next year!
Fermenting the feed also helps.
If I get quail again though, I'd make a quail tractor that I can move around the lawn. They eat a lot of grass when they get the chance. I'd make a dry space part of the pen, with deep litter of compost.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
Lori Ziemba wrote:
Do you ferment the crumble? How?
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
All the soil info you'll ever need:
Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
Trace Oswald wrote:
Lori Ziemba wrote:
Do you ferment the crumble? How?
This is very simple. Take a bucket of any size you like (I use a 5 gal bucket, but you can make any amount you want) and fill it about 1/2 way with crumbles. Add water until it's a couple inches above the feed. It will soak up water for a couple days, so just add a little water as you need to in order to keep the water an inch or so above the feed. Take some apple cider vinegar that has mother in it, I usually use Bragg's, and put a couple glugs of it in. Stir is once a day or so. Then wait a few days. You'll know from the smell when it's ready. It gets soft and smells really good. It doesn't matter if you use it after one day or after two weeks, it doesn't get bad. If you use it before it is all the way fermented, it doesn't hurt anything. When you want to use it, just give it a stir and scoop some out. You can just keep adding feed and water to keep it going. It may take them a day or two to get used to it, but when they do, the birds (at least chickens) love it.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
A build too cool to miss:Mike's GreenhouseA great example:Joseph's Garden
All the soil info you'll ever need:
Redhawk's excellent soil-building series
Trace Oswald wrote:Those chick feeders that are long red rectangles with a lot of holes in them with really well for it. If it's too runny, you can scoop the fed out with a slotted spoon to get some of the liquid out, but it still tends to spread out all over if it isn't contained in something. Those chick feeders work well to stop that too.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
I wrestled with reality for 36 years, and I'm happy to say I finally won out over it.
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