Help me raise bees in a Natural Way!

Hello Permie friends!

We've been "raising" bees for a few years now and continue to lose a hive or two every year. In this past season (2020) we started with 4 hives and we're down to one (and that one is somewhat questionable). *We've been trying to do it "organically" as much as possible and using the standard box arrangement.

We belong to a local bee club and have gathered a lot of good info from members and speakers, but what I notice is EVERYONE has the same issues with losses. It's almost the first thing people talk about... "did you lose any this winter" or something similar.

Having been practicing and learning more permaculture ways the past few years it seems like the standard ways bee keepers keep their hives alive is possibly too artificial. Boxes, frames, feeding, mite treatment, etc. Bees have been around for A LONG TIME and I know there's a decline in populations around the globe, but I can't imagine the standard way we use is helping them thrive.
I'm aware of Warre hives, but not much else. Can anyone point me in new directions? We're still looking to harvest honey too.

Thanks!

I haven't kept any bees yet myself, but I was really interested in the techniques Dr. Leo Sharashkin discussed about how he keeps bees with very little work required. He edited the English version of "Keeping Bees with a Smile" by Fedor Lazutin, and it looks like a great book.

Here is a link to his website, which has great plans to make your own hives, and he also has them available to purchase. His website also has a lot of other great info too.

https://horizontalhive.com/index.shtml

Do yourself a favor and go to horizontalhives.com and take a look there. The gentleman that runs that site is a Russian Immigrant and he will blow your mind with the knowledge he shares. I love his books and when I finally figure out where my next house will be I plan on practicing what he teaches and start keeping a hive or two for honey purposes. You know you can probably trap all the hives you need in the wild I hope and he will teach you how to do that also. He has many youtube video's and is a treasure for those keeping bees. I hope your hive survives. Ya'll take care now, hear!

It sounds like the Facebook group I run would be a good fit for you. Treatment Free Beekeeping.

We focus on raising bees without treatments, with the end goal of breeding bees for disease resistance. The group has 40,000 members worldwide.

All beekeepers have losses. There are two basic strategies for coping with this. The first is the conventional “I must treat them and feed them or they won’t survive”. But even treated colonies regularly die, and long term this delays natural selection which should breed for bees that survive the mites.

The second general strategy is to let the colonies figure it out, and breed from the survivors each year. You will lose colonies, but over time you get better stock. Personally, I do my breeding in advance by making splits in the year before and over wintering them as nucleus colonies to replace any losses.

I was reflecting on bees the other day, and it occurred to me that last year in the fall I was closely examining the variety of flowering oregano plant that was aswarm with all sorts of different pollinators (NY State has over 400 wild species). It resembled an old Dutch nature painting with exquisite detail of different species busily gathering resources. Big bumble bees and carpenter bees mixed in with all sorts of different bees (including a couple of honey bees) and wasps including tiny guys you would miss if not careful.

Am I raising bees?

The Keeping Bees with a Smile book & that horizontal website is an excellent resource. Especially geared toward colder climates. The book review.

The second general strategy is to let the colonies figure it out, and breed from the survivors each year. You will lose colonies, but over time you get better stock. Personally, I do my breeding in advance by making splits in the year before and over wintering them as nucleus colonies to replace any losses.

I figure Michael Cox's facebook site is excellent too. (I don't do facebook so have never seen his group) He gives good solid advice for bees here. This particular quote goes along with the thinking of this beekeeper in Vermont. It makes good sense.

The Mike Palmer video is excellent. He does treat his bees, so isn't really a permie/natural beekeeper, but the methods he proposes are really useful for anyone attempting the treatment free path.

Palmer has some good vids about overwintering too. Forgot he uses chemicals. Ugh. Still some good advice from his stuff.

I use Langstroth hives. Mostly because that's what I started with then a few years later I had 2 beekeeper friends die so I ended up with their Langstroths too. I really like the idea of log hives though. Especially after reading that book. It's been on my radar for several years but I still have some empty Langstroths to fill. When the perfect log comes along I'll jump on it. Here's a permies link to some log hives. https://permies.com/t/138758/Details-hollow-log-hive

I started out using so called "natural" chemical treatments (thymol & oxalic acid) because I didn't know any better & that is what is normally taught in bee classes. Then I tried a fogger using mineral oil instead. Seemed like it would be more natural but after seeing that in person it seems just as bad. After gaining a few years experience my process has changed. I no longer treat with chemicals & rarely open the hives. I split the strongest colonies & overwinter them as nucs. I try not to harvest any honey until after winter dearth which is quite different than most folk's approach. My thinking these days is start with locally adapted bees, put them in as toxic free of an environment as possible, disrupt them as little as possible, grow many bee food plants, & let survival of the fittest run it's course. I still lose some bees but not any more than those who use chemicals. Maybe less. It's certainly cheaper & easier. I think the bees are happier too.

I don't think the style of hive has as much to do with winter survival as how much insulation, honey, & ventilation they have.

The weather has warmed this week so my bees are flying a little. Observed every colony & it appears one might have died. One. From what I've been able to piece together the other locals lost about 50% this year. Some years it's even higher. Except for one exceptionally bad year my results have always been much better than 50% survival. More like 75-90%. One "trick" is to have bees at several locations. If one area gets some sort of infestation the others might not. Good to have backup.

To finally get to the point of natural bees ... this year I'm probably going to get back into some guerilla gardening. Will be looking for that perfect log & hopefully starting it with a nuc. It mostly depends on the, um, gorillas. Will never harvest that honey or try to capture those swarms. I think that's about as natural as we humans can do it.

As I said, he has lots of great ideas that are easily transferable - as is the case with a lot of beekeeping, you need to sift out what is important from all the noise.

Like you, I think that the type of box has very little bearing on how well bees do. They really don't care. The one caveat is that overall insulation level does seem to make a big difference, year round, in any climate.

Our UK climate is pretty mild, so we don't really worry about winterising as Palmer describes, but since making the jump to poly hives I have seen that my bees are markedly better - they brood up early in the year, and even maintain brood rearing in the depths of winter. In summer they expend less energy maintaining hive climate. It is an overall win, compared to the thin walled wooden hives. My boxes are going strong after 6 years, and just had a fresh coat of paint this week (keeps the poly UV stable).

I'm overwhelmed (in the best way!) with the quantity and quality of everyone's responses thus far. So much great info here to think and act on. Thank you all so much!

The Permies community is exactly that... a COMMUNITY. Helping and sharing with one another.

Looking forward to more responses!

Hey Zakk,

My sister is in the same boat as you...been keeping bees for a few years, really expanded in years 2 and 3 and had a great honey harvest, and coming into this year, no activity in all but one. :( Granted, she believed that varroa had infiltrated most of the colonies and decided to let it play out. She's hoping the one will be coming alive soon--she keeps them at my parents', who are in zone 5 in a pretty wet place. I'm getting my first colony in a few weeks from a local guy who keeps bees nearby, so I have been looking on the Penn State Extension site, which offers a lot of helpful mini-classes. They basically have put out a lot of 2-3 hour long webinars in the past year for people who are looking to get in to homesteading and literally making a living on a few acres. I, like yourself, have been looking more to permaculture as a way of growing and taking care of things, but the information they provide is useful--you don't have to do everything they say, as they say it, just get some ideas for what you want to accomplish in the future. I just recently got their webinar on starting an orchard, and, though I won't follow it to the tee, it does give a lot of really good info.

I just got this one for $5: https://extension.psu.edu/organic-beekeeping-management

You may find it useful.

Wanting to make it work and looking high and low for the possibilities and then jumping off a cliff with each attempt :)

Thanks so much Erin. I’ll look into the link and info you provided. Good luck to you!