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City ordinances holding me back.

 
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I wanted quail but they are 'livestock' by city standards. In a humorous turn of events though, I discovered that puppies are not. Also at the state level, there is no law preventing me from raising them and eating them.
Having said that I don't want to eat puppies because I don't think I have the space to keep them.

I had the idea of running a CSA on my lot and other residential borrowed land. City ordinances prohibit commercial activity on residential land. On a side note, they never responded when I asked if 'consulting' was considered a commercial activity.

I wanted to put up a greenhouse, but I was told that my lot wasn't large enough to allow a "structure" with a footprint of 6x4 feet. My plan was to put it over my raised beds in the autumn to extend my season, leave it through the winter, and see how much I could produce with no heat.

I am pending a response to find out if I can have rain barrels.

And in order to make a request to the city and get a variance, I will probably need to hire an attorney because I don't understand these types of processes very well.

Are there any approaches any of you other city dwellers in America have discovered that have been successful with dealing with local municipalities?  

 
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You might see if any food animals are classified pets. Some areas count pigeons as pets, many consider rabbits to be, and almost all count Cui as pets. Each is quality meat in a compact space requirement. Rabbits are especially productive and low effort for high return animals.

Many places have no rules on 'temporary' structures even if they have very strict rules on permanent ones. Some options would be to see if there are some loopholes. Does a temporary structure you take down 3 months out of the year have any special rules listed? Is the limit of 6x4 something where as long as it is smaller than that you're okay? What about a raised bed where you have a clear plastic tenting you put on in the fall and take off in the spring. What about a structure that is able to be moved around? If you can lift it with a fork truck to change it's spot, there's no foundation so it's really just a fancy storage container.

Sometimes it is a matter of how obvious things are. While I won't advocate breaking any laws, I know many places couldn't care less as long as it isn't something obvious. A rain catchment disguised as a storage bench wouldn't catch a single eye, but would serve the same purpose as the more traditional ones that many find so ugly.
 
Arthur Vivier
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D. Logan wrote:You might see if any food animals are classified pets. Some areas count pigeons as pets, many consider rabbits to be, and almost all count Cui as pets. Each is quality meat in a compact space requirement. Rabbits are especially productive and low effort for high return animals.

Many places have no rules on 'temporary' structures even if they have very strict rules on permanent ones. Some options would be to see if there are some loopholes. Does a temporary structure you take down 3 months out of the year have any special rules listed? Is the limit of 6x4 something where as long as it is smaller than that you're okay? What about a raised bed where you have a clear plastic tenting you put on in the fall and take off in the spring. What about a structure that is able to be moved around? If you can lift it with a fork truck to change it's spot, there's no foundation so it's really just a fancy storage container.

Sometimes it is a matter of how obvious things are. While I won't advocate breaking any laws, I know many places couldn't care less as long as it isn't something obvious. A rain catchment disguised as a storage bench wouldn't catch a single eye, but would serve the same purpose as the more traditional ones that many find so ugly.



I own a multifamily home and because of that, I am subject to regular inspections.

I will look into other animals and loopholes. Thanks.

The kicker is that I have 8 degraded acres and a house in a village in Ukraine. But moving there would mean that I would only see my 10-year-old son 6 months a year.

 
master pollinator
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Sheesh, those rules are a truckload of dinosaur-brain silliness! I suppose they also require people to spray-paint their front lawn green if there's a drought.

I'm usually a follow-the-law guy, but this situation begs for a little civil disobedience. Talk to your neighbours and see what they will tolerate.
 
Arthur Vivier
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Douglas Alpenstock wrote:Sheesh, those rules are a truckload of dinosaur-brain silliness! I suppose they also require people to spray-paint their front lawn green if there's a drought.

I'm usually a follow-the-law guy, but this situation begs for a little civil disobedience. Talk to your neighbours and see what they will tolerate.



I would love to get my neighbors on board. The problem is, they hate my garden and don't talk to me anymore because I wouldn't let them bully me into removing it.

 
gardener
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D. Logan wrote:

A rain catchment disguised as a storage bench wouldn't catch a single eye, but would serve the same purpose as the more traditional ones that many find so ugly.

Good point! Many City ordinances are all about "looking good" to improve your neighbor's property value. Making sure your infrastructure either looks "stylish" or well disguised may work so long as you know what those inspections are focused on. If the inspector thinks water storage increases mosquito born disease, you'll have a problem with an open barrel. But a properly fitted barrel built inside a "pretty storage cupboard" with flowers (edible of course) planted around it, could be a help. Some rules can be affected simply by adding wheels. A friend of Hubby's bought one of his portable chicken shelters as a green house - the wheels that went in the corners made it "portable" even though they never planned on moving it.

I'd also do planning in the whole "edible landscaping" and "food forest" areas - it's amazing how many really pretty plants can be eaten! It's a shame there's so much hatred in places of the lowly dandelion - it's a nutritional power house that grows easily and has pretty flowers that pollinators adore. However, I know from experience that bees adore raspberry blossoms also.
 
pollinator
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Arthur Vivier wrote:I wanted quail but they are 'livestock' by city standards. In a humorous turn of events though, I discovered that puppies are not. Also at the state level, there is no law preventing me from raising them and eating them.
Having said that I don't want to eat puppies because I don't think I have the space to keep them.

I had the idea of running a CSA on my lot and other residential borrowed land. City ordinances prohibit commercial activity on residential land. On a side note, they never responded when I asked if 'consulting' was considered a commercial activity.

I wanted to put up a greenhouse, but I was told that my lot wasn't large enough to allow a "structure" with a footprint of 6x4 feet. My plan was to put it over my raised beds in the autumn to extend my season, leave it through the winter, and see how much I could produce with no heat.

I am pending a response to find out if I can have rain barrels.

And in order to make a request to the city and get a variance, I will probably need to hire an attorney because I don't understand these types of processes very well.

Are there any approaches any of you other city dwellers in America have discovered that have been successful with dealing with local municipalities?  



Coloring within the lines you’ve drawn, and with no idea where you are (all this stuff is hyper local, so discussing solutions is difficult), perhaps the best path forward is simply to join with property owners nearby who do not have the proscriptions you’ve described and pursue a business that way. The 6x4 and rain barrel rules seem excessive, usually 6x6 is allowed no sweat and rain barrels, geez. Perhaps properties within the “no commercial” area could simply be farmed and all the produce quietly moved elsewhere upon harvest (have someone walk around blowing leaves back and forth with a loud leaf blower to disguise the “farming” as yard work). Cold frames likely would fly under the radar and put up the greenhouses where it is allowed.

I would start by a careful reading of the building codes. If zoning or code enforcement meetings are available online you could review these and see what’s up with all that.

You could hire a lawyer, though burying dollar bills with manure and wood chips might be just as effective for this pursuit.
 
Arthur Vivier
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Jay Angler wrote:D. Logan wrote:

A rain catchment disguised as a storage bench wouldn't catch a single eye, but would serve the same purpose as the more traditional ones that many find so ugly.

Good point! Many City ordinances are all about "looking good" to improve your neighbor's property value. Making sure your infrastructure either looks "stylish" or well disguised may work so long as you know what those inspections are focused on. If the inspector thinks water storage increases mosquito born disease, you'll have a problem with an open barrel. But a properly fitted barrel built inside a "pretty storage cupboard" with flowers (edible of course) planted around it, could be a help. Some rules can be affected simply by adding wheels. A friend of Hubby's bought one of his portable chicken shelters as a green house - the wheels that went in the corners made it "portable" even though they never planned on moving it.

I'd also do planning in the whole "edible landscaping" and "food forest" areas - it's amazing how many really pretty plants can be eaten! It's a shame there's so much hatred in places of the lowly dandelion - it's a nutritional power house that grows easily and has pretty flowers that pollinators adore. However, I know from experience that bees adore raspberry blossoms also.



Wheels on the greenhouse... hmm... brilliant. I will look into this loophole.
Knowing my city they will call it a "trailer" and require it to be connected to a registered vehicle. haha
 
pollinator
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I would check again about the "structure" you could build. It might be that you opened the conversation with "greenhouse" and that rang the alarm bells, where if you wanted a "tool shed" it would be a "normal" request.
I'm in a suburban area, not in the city, but for me there's no permit required for a shed of less than a certain size (for me 150sq.ft.) and the building department only cares that it meets the setback requirements (for me 5ft. from side & rear lot lines, and in the rear of the lot) no fee, or maybe it was $20?, no inspection.
You may truly have a tiny lot, and your setbacks may exclude your entire space, but I'd check.

You might also consider a "seasonal" use of the greenhouse, which might make it exempt? Meaning you would take it down for the times you are not using it... say during winter, mid-summer, and store it away.
Many folks have a shade structure for a patio that would be similar...

Doing the "stealth edibles" and camouflaged rain barrel seems like a good option. Also keeping the garden tidy and attractive would help with neighbors. Maybe combining ornamentals with edibles to make it "attractive" to your neighbors eyes.
Also, using attractive materials for your structures and not cobbling together salvaged junk? (not saying this is your situation, but may be for others...) It might cost more, but not invite the same criticism.

Joining or building a community garden might be your best option. You might turn the tables on the city and get their blessings and help. There might be an abandoned lot or underused part of an athletic field or schoolyard they could "donate".
 
master pollinator
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As another option, if you can't do a greenhouse, maybe you can do a low tunnel. Just alter the below to fit your raised beds. The video is in Spanish, but the idea is made clear.



I plan on using this concept to extend some frost-tender stuff this fall.
 
D. Logan
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Knowing more details, yours sounds like a situation I would avoid like the plague.
  • A number of neighbors hostile towards even having a garden
  • A city that bans a number of things in a seemingly arbitrary manner
  • Being subject to regular inspections of my property by government officials


  • That situation to me spells out heartache and I would probably just look to move a little further out of town or to a nearby town. Is it possible to keep improving things? Absolutely and if that's your choice, I commend you. Is it going to result in a lot of bad situations and agencies dedicated to making you cry getting involved? Probably yes. Your neighbors are going to be constantly looking for ways to get what you have removed since they don't like it. The city seems hell-bent on keeping your situation as close to typical suburbia as possible. The odds are, one inspector with an option that your garden isn't in neat enough rows could result in them sending a mowing crew to tear it out and leaving you a bill. (It's happened to others here. We have horror stories) It sounds like a huge uphill battle. You may win through loopholes and cunning, but you might also get the attention of people who like making rules and those loopholes might get closed and you get asked to retroactively undo your work too. It's a tough situation.
     
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    Arthur Vivier wrote:I wanted quail but they are 'livestock' by city standards.



    Wry grin here the whole state considers them  gamebirds AKA wildlife and you need a special permit to own them.  And another one to be allowed to even give away their eggs for eating.  And of course the city says no livestock raised for slaughter and no wildlife...
    I could put up a shed that is 8 by 12 ft (under100 sq ft) with no permit needed but must still meet setback laws.  Which would put it in the middle of my garden so that is a nope...  

    Like you I am turning to "pretty plants" that are also edible.  I also know from experience that a big bush squash gets mistaken for some rare tropical plant that deserves a place of honor...  I have to remove two smaller cottonwoods that endangering the house.  That will leave me a stump for a cute bird bath, and one I can put mushrooms in...  it also opens up a space in the hedge I can refill wiht golden currents which are a native.  Pretty flowers, edible fruit and native what more can one ask.
     
    Jay Angler
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    Arthur Vivier wrote:

    Knowing my city they will call it a "trailer" and require it to be connected to a registered vehicle.

    Two can play that game. Consider working really hard to choose the words you use to describe what you're trying to do.
    You're trying to provide "food security" for the people in your multi-family dwelling.
    Those aren't chickens - they're your organic weed and pest control. And besides, they're fancy pigeons that just look like chickens. (Banty chickens might be better than regular size birds for a small lot anyway - yes the eggs are small, but they taste as good if not better and the birds have character.)
    Rainwater capture - I need chlorine-free water for the native shrubs I've planted to provide shelter for the songbirds.

    I hear your pain. I have a sister that lives in a similar city in Ontario. While so many places are realizing the benefits of local food production, her city is stuck on ornamental plants, cats and dogs only attitude. When one fellow had a successful beehive and expanded it to several, the city's response was to ban all beehives, rather than setting a reasonable limit of one or two. And yet, so often, these same cities are banning the killing of wild animals like raccoon and squirrel. My sister now has to carry a whistle at all times due to coyote moving in (attracted, I expect, by the European rabbits). The idea that if you live in a city, you can't harvest rabbit or squirrel to eat when they're a pest at the density they are, is rampant in North America despite evidence of environmental damage caused by Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations that produce so much of the meat those city people consume.

    Do you have any idea how your neighbors feel about you growing food? Also, a few pictures of your yard might generate other ideas.
     
    pollinator
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    What a tough situation!

    I hate to be negative, but sadly, I agree with D. Logan. There's just too much going on here, and you're going to be battling everyone. If the city was friendly to your ideas but you have one or two neighbors who weren't, it'd be doable. If the neighbors were supportive but the city was all red tape, it'd be doable. But it's going to be exhausting trying to grow food, raise animals, keep the property in a state that will make everyone happy, AND win over the city, AND win over the neighbors, all at the same time.

    You may have the spirit to be the pioneer who forces the city to reconsider their rules, though that could be hard work. There are ways to stealth garden, water harvest, and keep animals, though they usually involve more cost and more labor. Gifts of fresh home-grown food may help win over the neighbors, though in my experience once a neighbor relationship has issues, it's very hard to repair. Some people are always looking for reasons to report neighbors, especially if they're not happy about a multi-family property next door or prejudiced about people who are "from away".

    Once things get to needing to spend on an attorney, and considering that there are sure to be extra costs involved trying to do things the stealth way in hopes not to upset your neighbors (who could STILL be upset, regardless), looking to lease a small area of land from a property owner outside the city limits could be the way to go with least heartache and least expense. I hope it all works out, whichever route you decide to take.

     
    gardener
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    I have fought city hall with their own rules, and lost.
    The structure thing?
    I told them I was going to build a wheel coop in order to comply with their restrictions.
    They said ok, and came back and said, nah, its still a structure,  despite what our own law says.
    Just today, I received a notice of their intent to garnish my wages to pay a huge and unjust fine.
    Since that time, the rules have changed and my coop is legal, but I still have to prove that to get them off my case.
    Following the rules as written isn't enough when the intent of the rules is to crush nonconformity.

    I'm not saying you can't fight city hall and win, but I  certainly didn't and don't have the wherewithal to do it.
    YMMV.

     
    pollinator
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    I fought the chicken battle in  my town. For over 10 years.
    Went door to door, did a survey of 125 people.
    Only 10 against.
    Showed it to the council. They supported it until after the election then they treated everyone's signatures like garbage.
    The 3 amigos ran in the next election and I got 40 percent.
    But we got one chicken hater off the council because a friend got elected.

    Year later... had support from new guy in town,
    who called for a council meeting on it and dressed up like a chicken with a sign encouraging community members to come to the meeting.
    We packed the place and they hate to stab us in the front, while we are looking at them.
    Forced them to do their own survey. and they lost bad.
    I think they had support from 30 houses in a 200 house town.
    We got over double that.

    So they wrote the most insanely strict chicken policy in the state.
    Copied from some big city with more bad stuff added.
    But couldn't pass it. All they had to pass was an ordinance that said, "The ordinance follows the policy".
    Could have passed it in the first reading by waiving the second 2 readings but they dragged it out.
    John, the chicken man, got some chicks anticipating passing.
    They got big and the chicken haters complained that he had chickens before it passed.
    Any excuse to tank the policy.
    Got confused and thought they were voting on the policy.

    Soo it went back to the original ordinance which basically said if the council says you can,.. you can.
    The next month they let John have chickens.

    But wouldn't let  me.
    They declared more than 50% didn't participate in the survey so it didn't count.
    That doesn't work in elections.
    Next election John won the Mayor's race.
    I got chickens.

    Next election John lost,.. to Cecil, the tyrants got back into power,.. but I won that election for a seat on the council.
    Someone quit and they wanted to appoint their chicken hater buddy.
    I demanded a special election.
    Just before the election they, with the help of their appointed chicken hater, voted to ban all chickens.
    It's on utube.
    But they didn't put it on the agenda so it didn't count.
    John won the election so now the 2 people who had chickens were on the council.
    Along with that chicken loving friend I helped get elected earlier who proved himself too weak to stand up to their peer pressure.
    But Cecil was our mayor and started declaring the policy was in force.
    Though it was never voted on.

    John left town because of the tyrants but was replaced on the council with someone who was tired of Cecil's chicken battle.
    Another election saw another chicken hater removed.
    Only one chicken hater left on the council,.. and Cecil is still mayor but can't vote.
    It took 10 years but we can have chickens now.

    Another election this fall. 3 council seats out of 5 are up, plus the mayors race.
    This will be an important election, because all of us getting elected doesn't show them the community doesn't support them on this issue.
    If the tyrants get back into power they will continue their efforts to mold everyone into their image.

     I record the meetings and the one which forced them to do their own survey is on utube.
    "The great plymouth Iowa chicken battle".
    There is another one out there from after my survey and the first election.
    I wanted to know why they turned on us and treated the sigs like garbage but the mayor wouldn't let me talk.
     Not real proud of how I kinda went off on that one. He wouldn't let me talk so I wouldn't let him talk.
    The cops got called I got removed but I did get them to parrot the prepared lame excuse, "I saw 2 chickens".

    Circling back to how I started this revolution. I got chickens without permission.

    The fight wasn't really about chickens. I was trying to show they didn't represent the community.
    They only represented their little group of buddys.
    Our town had been taken over by a small group of obsesive neat freaks.
    They did a survey. translated it to mean everyone should be molded into their image.
    Started harassing everyone in town about the asperagus in their yard,
    any little project they had going out back.
    The whole next council was full of people telling them how arrogant, insulting and petty they were being.
    So they targeted individuals instead of the whole town.
    Chased one guy out and I was next.
    They didn't expect a fight. they didn't expect to lose.
    They thought if everyone was molded into their image, property values would increase.
    But their pettyness has ruined the reputation of our nice little town and driven down prices.
    Good lesson to learn:
    Most people moving into a small town care more about how you act than how you look.

    A joke?
    What do religous zealots, type A overachievers and obsesive neat freaks have in common?
    They all think everyone should be like them, ha.
    Oh, and vegans, and... bigots..and..and,.. chicken haters especially ha.
     
    gardener
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    I thought that Germany was heavy on bureaucracy, but this sounds a lot worse. At least we can plant as much edibles as we like, we can have ugly or nice gardens, have beehives, chickens and roosters (up to a certain number), rain water catchments, cloth lines etc. (all these are traditional and no one would think that these things deteriorate a neighbourhood's value).

    I don't know your circumstances, but another suggestion is to be part of the change; depending on the amount of available time and energy you have.
    I am member of  the local chapter of the most renowned environmenal organization in Bavaria. Our head is regular member of the environmental council of our town. Last time I and another member also took part in the session as our head wants to delegate some of his tasks to us due to overload. This was very interesting, although we only had guest status. Topis are e.g. the town's biotops (more than 100), planned cycling lanes, tree plantings, sustainable garden incentives, at the moment we are planning a lizard habitat, and similar things.
    That means we have a say in how the town supports environmental and sustainable practices, including gardening practices.

    We also get to public bimonthly articles in the town's gazette (for next issue I wrote an article on plants that favour the goldfinch - with pictures - and some lines on the ongoing amphibe rescue action). The gazette is distributed to all ca. 4,000 citizens for free.

    Add to that that the neighbouring towns are competing which is most sustainable, they plant meadows for insect habitat, hand out free birdhouses, introduce fairtrade regulations and similar.
    So our situation might be easier.

    But as I said, just a suggestion if you could search out like-minded people so that you don't have to fight on your own.
    I wish you best of luck!
     
    William Bronson
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    Craig your story is empowering and daunting, a good example of what it takes to fight and WIN.
     
    steward & bricolagier
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    Arthur: With everything you said here, I think my solution would be to find a person outside the city limits who would be thrilled to have you garden up their yard. Lots of folks want a garden, but don't have time, energy or whatever to do it, and would LOVE to have someone else do it and give them some produce.  Around here there are a lot of older, widowed women who would fit that category. Even better is a lady whose husband did the garden, but can't do it herself, there may be garden beds already made that can be worked with.

    I feel for you, I despise bureaucracy, and am dealing with it too. I'm not a good hoop jumper, that's absolutely not in my skillset.
     
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    Re greenhouse substitutes: consider having a hoop house which is a temporary structure only. Could call it a cold frame. Could also use a cattle panel trellis then throw heavy plastic over it for winter. Classic cold frame for a raised bed is merely a glassed/ plexiglass screendoor or windows perhaps angled toward the sun and raised sides of the raised bed if required for room to grow.
     
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    craig howard wrote: I fought the chicken battle in  my town. For over 10 years.
    Went door to door, did a survey of 125 people.
    Only 10 against.
    Showed it to the council. They supported it until after the election then they treated everyone's signatures like garbage.
    The 3 amigos ran in the next election and I got 40 percent.
    But we got one chicken hater off the council because a friend got elected.

    Year later... had support from new guy in town,
    who called for a council meeting on it and dressed up like a chicken with a sign encouraging community members to come to the meeting.
    We packed the place and they hate to stab us in the front, while we are looking at them.
    Forced them to do their own survey. and they lost bad.
    I think they had support from 30 houses in a 200 house town.
    We got over double that.

    So they wrote the most insanely strict chicken policy in the state.
    Copied from some big city with more bad stuff added.
    But couldn't pass it. All they had to pass was an ordinance that said, "The ordinance follows the policy".
    Could have passed it in the first reading by waiving the second 2 readings but they dragged it out.
    John, the chicken man, got some chicks anticipating passing.
    They got big and the chicken haters complained that he had chickens before it passed.
    Any excuse to tank the policy.
    Got confused and thought they were voting on the policy.

    Soo it went back to the original ordinance which basically said if the council says you can,.. you can.
    The next month they let John have chickens.

    But wouldn't let  me.
    They declared more than 50% didn't participate in the survey so it didn't count.
    That doesn't work in elections.
    Next election John won the Mayor's race.
    I got chickens.

    Next election John lost,.. to Cecil, the tyrants got back into power,.. but I won that election for a seat on the council.
    Someone quit and they wanted to appoint their chicken hater buddy.
    I demanded a special election.
    Just before the election they, with the help of their appointed chicken hater, voted to ban all chickens.
    It's on utube.
    But they didn't put it on the agenda so it didn't count.
    John won the election so now the 2 people who had chickens were on the council.
    Along with that chicken loving friend I helped get elected earlier who proved himself too weak to stand up to their peer pressure.
    But Cecil was our mayor and started declaring the policy was in force.
    Though it was never voted on.

    John left town because of the tyrants but was replaced on the council with someone who was tired of Cecil's chicken battle.
    Another election saw another chicken hater removed.
    Only one chicken hater left on the council,.. and Cecil is still mayor but can't vote.
    It took 10 years but we can have chickens now.

    Another election this fall. 3 council seats out of 5 are up, plus the mayors race.
    This will be an important election, because all of us getting elected doesn't show them the community doesn't support them on this issue.
    If the tyrants get back into power they will continue their efforts to mold everyone into their image.

     I record the meetings and the one which forced them to do their own survey is on utube.
    "The great plymouth Iowa chicken battle".
    There is another one out there from after my survey and the first election.
    I wanted to know why they turned on us and treated the sigs like garbage but the mayor wouldn't let me talk.
     Not real proud of how I kinda went off on that one. He wouldn't let me talk so I wouldn't let him talk.
    The cops got called I got removed but I did get them to parrot the prepared lame excuse, "I saw 2 chickens".

    Circling back to how I started this revolution. I got chickens without permission.

    The fight wasn't really about chickens. I was trying to show they didn't represent the community.
    They only represented their little group of buddys.
    Our town had been taken over by a small group of obsesive neat freaks.
    They did a survey. translated it to mean everyone should be molded into their image.
    Started harassing everyone in town about the asperagus in their yard,
    any little project they had going out back.
    The whole next council was full of people telling them how arrogant, insulting and petty they were being.
    So they targeted individuals instead of the whole town.
    Chased one guy out and I was next.
    They didn't expect a fight. they didn't expect to lose.
    They thought if everyone was molded into their image, property values would increase.
    But their pettyness has ruined the reputation of our nice little town and driven down prices.
    Good lesson to learn:
    Most people moving into a small town care more about how you act than how you look.

    A joke?
    What do religous zealots, type A overachievers and obsesive neat freaks have in common?
    They all think everyone should be like them, ha.
    Oh, and vegans, and... bigots..and..and,.. chicken haters especially ha.



    This sounds a lot like where I live.
     
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    I got tired of dealing with the Department of Making you Sad and just moved out of the city.

    But a cold frame that is light enough to pick up is not a structure, nor a trailer.  Another work around is a geodesic dome covered in 5 mil plastic, as the geodesic dome could be considered a child's play structure.
     
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    Henry David Thoreau Loves you.  "Dissent without action is consent" said HDT.
     
    Arthur Vivier
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    Joylynn Hardesty wrote:As another option, if you can't do a greenhouse, maybe you can do a low tunnel. Just alter the below to fit your raised beds. The video is in Spanish, but the idea is made clear.



    I plan on using this concept to extend some frost-tender stuff this fall.



    Thanks for this. I do already use low tunnels but I have never tried to stretch them into the winter. I tend to use them to start plants early. I will give it a shot.
     
    Arthur Vivier
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    Pearl Sutton wrote:Arthur: With everything you said here, I think my solution would be to find a person outside the city limits who would be thrilled to have you garden up their yard. Lots of folks want a garden, but don't have time, energy or whatever to do it, and would LOVE to have someone else do it and give them some produce.  Around here there are a lot of older, widowed women who would fit that category. Even better is a lady whose husband did the garden, but can't do it herself, there may be garden beds already made that can be worked with.

    I feel for you, I despise bureaucracy, and am dealing with it too. I'm not a good hoop jumper, that's absolutely not in my skillset.



    I agree, it is part of my master plan!
     
    Arthur Vivier
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    Creighton Samuels wrote:I got tired of dealing with the Department of Making you Sad and just moved out of the city.

    But a cold frame that is light enough to pick up is not a structure, nor a trailer.  Another work around is a geodesic dome covered in 5 mil plastic, as the geodesic dome could be considered a child's play structure.



    Yes, this is good! Thank you!
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