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Had cancer and beat it with alternative medicine?

 
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Tyler Ludens wrote:It's the danger of cyanide toxicity which has me concerned about people using it.  My husband has cancer (Chronic lymphocytic leukemia) and I wouldn't want him poisoning himself with cyanide.



The article says that cyanide is release only when comes in contact with cancer cells. so in essence its selective.
 
julian Gerona
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The importance of blood and nerve cleansing. I already explained it above. But let me tell you a story.

I am a builder/handyman by trade. I use to have a costumer. An American retired priest who choose to retire in the Philippines. He summoned me for some works. It involves making ramps around the house, enlarging the door leading to the elevator so wheel chair can fit and fixing the elevator. Reason he is confined to the wheelchair. He can not walk and could barely finish a sentence without a pause. He is basically gasping. When I get home I emailed him and ask if he wants to try my medicinal herbs, his reply was " Julian at this point I will try anything. What do I have to lose? Death would be better than the life I am living" So I sent him a total of 15 tea bags of the cleansing herb (see post above) On the third day I came back to his place because I forgot to measure the door opening. I saw a towel doted with blood. His caregiver said he had nose bleeding the whole night. So I went home sad, thinking I was too late. 11 days after his first tea bag I was back to his place to install the door and ramps. From the garage I can already hear him speaking while before sound barely come out as he speaks. When I went up his room there he was standing and able to walk across the room. The caregiver said his illness was "complications". I gave him only cleansing herbs and it sets off his road to recovery. Reason I wrote in above post. Five years afterwards he is still alive. The last time I had a talk with the caregiver he said " we no longer carry an oxygen tank when we go out". So what was the nose bleeding? It was the action of the body to get rid of the toxins, triggered by the cleansing herbs. Toxins is the disease. Arthritis, high blood, diabetes, kidney disease, heart disease, cancer are symptoms of the disease on varying scale. At least that's my conclusion after my studies. What  gives me confidence though that I am correct is I cure people, many, mostly for free.
 
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julian Gerona wrote:

The article says that cyanide is release only when comes in contact with cancer cells. so in essence its selective.



I'm not convinced that a compound which contains cyanide only releases it on specific cells.  That would be different from any other kind of cyanide in other cyanide-containing plant parts such as apple seeds.

Are you saying cleansing herbs can cure chronic leukemia?  How long would it take for such a cure?  Which herbs are they? (Sorry I could not find it above).

What I wish most of all is that people making claims for alternative cures would give more specific information than "I cure many people."

 
julian Gerona
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what specific information you want. If you want laboratory test results I dont have. I work entirely by logic and experience. So that"s what I can give you experience and logical reasoning. Sad but our society is plague with lies and business interest. You need to thread along carefully using your entire set of common senses to navigate.

according to the article The cyanide is held by a certain substance that when comes in contact with a substance on the cancer cells dissolve thereby releasing the the cyanide directly into the cancer cells. Again I am just presenting an option for you to investigate. Ultimately its the patient who can feel the truth of any claims when they try it. follow the link to my bit gardening thread there is the picture of the herb.

Cleansing alone will not cure leukemia but its probably the most important part for it improves nutrient, garbage and oxygen delivery read my first post on this thread for the reasoning. What makes logical reasoning better than laboratory results is that you can verify it with your own logic. If it dont resonate then cast it away.
 
Tyler Ludens
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Thank you for clarifying.


 
julian Gerona
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Sleep should be abundant and truly restful for patients.

This device is said to relieve pain and induce deep sleep. http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/cranial-electrotherapy-stimulation

I have not tried it but I am endorsing it because I'm sold out to logical science by this doctor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm-Ia6vI4PA

But the reason I endorse the CES rather than the PEMF promoted by this doctor is because of this https://alphastimforanimals.com/dr-ava-frick-explains-alpha-stim-technology-compared-tens-units-pemf-lasers-veterinary-medicine/

And the fact that I have a fellow who designed and manufactures both devices.

This is an option to investigate for those who are willing.
 
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I did a quick fact check on some of the links shared in the past few days:

https://www.disclose.tv/all-found-murdered-doctors-who-discovered-cancer-enzymes-in-vaccines-333465
This one is an error filled rehash of a story from 2015. "Body found floating in a river" etc... He actually committed suicide because he was being investigated for fraud related to fake autism "cures". (Source: Forbes, Politifact)

 
julian Gerona
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Michael Cox wrote:I did a quick fact check on some of the links shared in the past few days:

https://www.disclose.tv/all-found-murdered-doctors-who-discovered-cancer-enzymes-in-vaccines-333465
This one is an error filled rehash of a story from 2015. "Body found floating in a river" etc... He actually committed suicide because he was being investigated for fraud related to fake autism "cures". (Source: Forbes, Politifact)



referring to any publish article does not make anything a fact including mine. I was conveying an idea for you to investigate there are so many articles in regards as I have mentioned. Look for more connect the dots and decide for yourself. making reference to one source without connecting the dots is an example of your word against mine. does not prove anything. In a propaganda abundant society you have to work hard to come up with the truth. In case its not obvious no one can do it for you except you because your the only person who can feel your senses with logic at the center of it.
 
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This is such a fascinating discussion.  Thanks for asking it all those years ago!  I've been really enjoying the posts and have not finished reading the thread yet but had to add a little bit to the discussion.

First off, my own experience -- I lost both of my parents to cancer.  Both followed conventional medical treatment.  My oldest child had parotid (salivary gland) cancer starting at around age 12 but it was not caught until she was 14.  Doctors told us for over a year that it was just a lump (marble sized) on her jaw and to "leave it alone."  They finally decided to operate when it was growing larger and they were concerned that it might become disfiguring or tap into the area blood supply.  After removing it, they did a routine biopsy and discovered it was cancer.  The doctor had not removed it properly (inking the margins and taking a little extra on all sides to be sure to get it all) and the surgical site developed an infection inside that the oncologist palpitated (pressed hard on many times to feel) and spread the infection throughout her system, causing her to develop a terrifying case of sepsis within a few hours that required being rushed to the ER and then to the children's hospital in a neighboring state the next day where they did emergency surgery to clean it all out.  We had a scary three months before the site was healed enough to do a PET scan and see if the doctor got lucky and got all the cancer despite operating so badly, and he did.  She was officially declared cancer free at 19 after yearly scans consistently showed the cancer had not returned.  So she is a cancer survivor who did not do radiation or chemo but used surgery.  

I also have a close friend who kept breast cancer from spreading or growing for several years and remained healthy with an extensive herbal/vitamin protocol.  Doctors told her that she would die if she didn't get a mastectomy and then chemo/radiation and that it would grow quickly.  It did not and the tumor did not grow for that whole time and she was able to work full time and live a busy life symptom-free, but the protocol was expensive and she just couldn't afford it after several years.  The doctors were shocked her tumor had not grown at all in all that time and said they were amazed to see her still alive those years later.  But her insurance would cover surgery, chemo and radiation but not her supplements so she had no choice.  She did surgery alone with nothing else.  She is about 10 years cancer free.  She is in her early 70's (she was in her 50's when she was diagnosed with the cancer) and she firmly believes that she could have lived the rest of her life with the cancer not growing and being completely manageable if she had been able to continue her supplements, which also cured her of fibromyalgia while she was taking them (it has not returned).  

So both of my loved ones who survived cancer did use surgery but not chemo/radiation, and both my loved ones who also did chemo/radiation did not, and one was managing her cancer for many years without medical intervention.  Different cancers and circumstances, though.

I did want to recommend a wonderful book written by a woman whose husband survived brain cancer far longer than anybody thought he could and she believes he would have survived if doctors hadn't screwed up a surgery that gave him a terrible infection on his scalp.  They used a medically approved but little known treatment that is very cheap, and she ended up getting in touch with a lot of other patients and doctors who used the same treatment for various cancers and diseases, and then she also researched other medically proven but inexpensive treatments for cancer and serious illnesses from cancer to epilepsy.  A lot of the people in her book did survive cancer (and other illnesses) by using these inexpensive treatments. The book is called Honest Medicine: Effective, Time-Tested, Inexpensive Treatments for Life-Threatening Diseases (affiliate link) and after reading it I recommended it to everyone I know.

Here's my review of it from Goodreads:

A really fascinating, well researched, maddening, captivating, empowering, knowledgeable book.

I absolutely love this book and read entire sections of it out loud to my husband, my 19 y/o daughter and her fiance. The author lost her husband to brain cancer but she became a health advocate in the years she spent helping him survive, and then carried on with the work after his death. It is filled with first person accounts from doctors and patients about low cost, effective medical treatments that have been proven to halt or cure diseases. The treatments are not "woo" or crazy herbs, oils, etc. They are recognized medically-approved treatments with years of testing behind them but no pharmaceutical interest pushing them into the mainstream. Specifically, the author focuses mainly on the ketogenic diet for epilepsy (which was developed at the Mayo Clinic), a very low dose of an FDA approved drug to halt the progression of MS and cure or greatly improve other autoimmune diseases like Crohn's Disease that costs less than a dollar a day, and an IV treatment that cures liver poisoning and cancer, among other treatments.

The book is filled with first-person stories by patients who were told they had incurable cancer and a few months to live and are thriving and cancer-free over a decade later, by parents whose children with epilepsy were permanently damaged by anti-seizure drugs and whose seizures either stopped completely or greatly diminished on the ketogenic diet, MS patients who were not helped at all by drugs that cost thousands of dollars a month but whose progression stopped and symptoms lessened as soon as they started this inexpensive daily pill, and so on. Most of these people have gone on to volunteer their time spreading the word about these treatments and they do not make any money at all for their work. They just believe in them and want to help others who have suffered the way they have or their loved ones have.

I cannot recommend the book enough. It's filled with references, studies, web links and more to empower patients to learn more. I got it from the library but want to see if it's on Kindle because it is so packed with information and suggested links and reading.


 
julian Gerona
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I wonder though why they are selling the book and not just give the info for free. Just wondering.
 
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Amedean Messan wrote:Cutting through the BS, who here has actually treated themselves or an immediate family member using an effective alternative medicine or treatment for clinically diagnosed cancer?  I am not asking for a friend or somebody you may have heard of but an actual person within your immediate vicinity in which you have intimate knowledge of the treatment and have witnessed progression.



My wife did.

She had seen enough of our friends poison themselves with chemotherapy and radiation and decided she didn't want to go down the same road as everyone else, even though the doctor told her without them her cancer would return with a vengeance and spread all through her body killing her in two years. She did a wide variety of alternative approaches including fasting. Been about 12 years now and she's still cancer free.
 
julian Gerona
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Greg Mamishian wrote:

Amedean Messan wrote:Cutting through the BS, who here has actually treated themselves or an immediate family member using an effective alternative medicine or treatment for clinically diagnosed cancer?  I am not asking for a friend or somebody you may have heard of but an actual person within your immediate vicinity in which you have intimate knowledge of the treatment and have witnessed progression.



My wife did.

She had seen enough of our friends poison themselves with chemotherapy and radiation and decided she didn't want to go down the same road as everyone else, even though the doctor told her without them her cancer would return with a vengeance and spread all through her body killing her in two years. She did a wide variety of alternative approaches including fasting. Been about 12 years now and she's still cancer free.



Juat got words that my sister in law is now cancer free after years of going through the knife to remove metastasizing cancer. I sent here couple batch of my herb concoctions starting around one and a half year ago.
 
Tyler Ludens
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Greg Mamishian wrote:

Amedean Messan wrote:Cutting through the BS, who here has actually treated themselves or an immediate family member using an effective alternative medicine or treatment for clinically diagnosed cancer?  I am not asking for a friend or somebody you may have heard of but an actual person within your immediate vicinity in which you have intimate knowledge of the treatment and have witnessed progression.



My wife did.

She had seen enough of our friends poison themselves with chemotherapy and radiation and decided she didn't want to go down the same road as everyone else, even though the doctor told her without them her cancer would return with a vengeance and spread all through her body killing her in two years. She did a wide variety of alternative approaches including fasting. Been about 12 years now and she's still cancer free.



Could you detail what her methods were?  I'm sure many people would like to know.  Your wife cured cancer and others would like to know how to do that.  Specifically.

 
Greg Mamishian
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Tyler Ludens wrote:

Greg Mamishian wrote:

Amedean Messan wrote:Cutting through the BS, who here has actually treated themselves or an immediate family member using an effective alternative medicine or treatment for clinically diagnosed cancer?  I am not asking for a friend or somebody you may have heard of but an actual person within your immediate vicinity in which you have intimate knowledge of the treatment and have witnessed progression.



My wife did.

She had seen enough of our friends poison themselves with chemotherapy and radiation and decided she didn't want to go down the same road as everyone else, even though the doctor told her without them her cancer would return with a vengeance and spread all through her body killing her in two years. She did a wide variety of alternative approaches including fasting. Been about 12 years now and she's still cancer free.



Could you detail what her methods were?  I'm sure many people would like to know.  Your wife cured cancer and others would like to know how to do that.  Specifically.



She did everything herself at home. Fasting was her main method, as well as colon irrigation with a Colema board. she also did the Gerson method, and a wide varity of diets. She figured if she did a whole bunch of different things and each one helped just a little bit, the cumulative effect of them all together over time could be significant. She was right.

Both her and I understand that eventually we will die from something.

I'm really not so sure this is all that remarkable. It may only appear that way because not enough other people tried going their own way. No one will ever know how many people would have survived cancer if they didn't do drugs and radiation because they get lumped in with the drugs and radiation results. The statistics are skewed.

Modern pharmaceutical medicine is very much like other false popularly adopted axiomatic paradigms. It is based on the chemical model where you have a problem and they will find just the right chemical to mask your symptoms without ever addressing the cause. Doctors have to tell people who have cancer that they will die if they don't do chemotherapy and radiation in order to protect themselves from being hauled into court. This is an angry blaming sue happy society where everything is someone else's fault and they should be forced to pay for it. Huge liability lotto lawsuit jury awards have become new American dream. For some, serial lawsuits have even become their career. Anyone who does not conform is censored and punished. Voicing different views in this society is simply not tolerated.

So I don't blame the doctors. It's not their fault. They they didn't create the medical system.

It was created by people's fear of death.
 
Alicia Bayer
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julian Gerona wrote:I wonder though why they are selling the book and not just give the info for free. Just wondering.



She also provides all the information on her blog, where you can get it all for free (just not put together succinctly like the book).  I forget the name of it but can look it up.  Most of the people she profiles in the book are also doing it for free, mostly through nonprofit organizations they put together to spread the word after it helped them or their loved ones.  But if you publish a book, that costs money -- not just the paper and printing costs but the editing, layout and more.  You can offer the info online for free (which she does) but books do cost money and generally take an extraordinary amount of time to write.  If you wanted a printed or otherwise published book, you have to pay the costs of the people who put it together and the materials that it costs to do that.  

I don't blame her at all for trying to make a small profit off of something she's put so much of her life into, especially as it helps enable her to continue to do her work spreading the message.  Good people with good causes need to pay their bills too.  :)
 
Tyler Ludens
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I'm easily flummoxed by websites.  I'm not able to find the cancer cure information on her website:  https://www.honestmedicine.com/
 
Alicia Bayer
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Tyler Ludens wrote:I'm easily flummoxed by websites.  I'm not able to find the cancer cure information on her website:  https://www.honestmedicine.com/



Yeah, she's blogged for years but it's not in any order.  And it's not like there's one secret cancer cure the whole book is about.  She profiles several therapies and medications.  Here's an example of a post about brain cancer therapies: https://www.honestmedicine.com/2017/09/my-husband-outlived-his-brain-tumor-prognosis-by-12-years-how-his-experience-could-help-john-mccain-.html

I read the book about a year ago and really enjoyed it.  I'd just check your library, which is how I read it.
 
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I'm just doing all of those things as a preventative for cancer. Many people in my family had cancer. Some died of it.  I'm not ready to join them yet.  I fasted today.  Plant based. Many specific mushrooms, plants, etc.
John S
PDX OR
 
Tyler Ludens
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Thank you Alecia.  It all seems rather vague. 'High quality supplements."  Use of Naltrexone seems weird.  https://www.rxlist.com/revia-drug.htm#description
 
Tyler Ludens
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Greg Mamishian wrote:She did everything herself at home. Fasting was her main method, as well as colon irrigation with a Colema board. she also did the Gerson method, and a wide varity of diets. She figured if she did a whole bunch of different things and each one helped just a little bit, the cumulative effect of them all together over time could be significant. She was right.



Thank you Greg.
 
Michael Cox
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Greg Mamishian wrote:My wife did.

She had seen enough of our friends poison themselves with chemotherapy and radiation and decided she didn't want to go down the same road as everyone else, even though the doctor told her without them her cancer would return with a vengeance and spread all through her body killing her in two years. She did a wide variety of alternative approaches including fasting. Been about 12 years now and she's still cancer free.



Reading between the lines here; she had some form of conventional treatment first (surgery)?

In many of the cases I have read where someone has "cured" cancer it turns out that they have had some form of extensive conventional treatment first, but the credit for the success is then put down to some alternative approach. In the case of surgery, for example, in a proportion of cases the surgery alone is 100% successful and the chemo etc... are recommended to reduce the probability of recurrence. So it is hard to put credence to the few stories that claim alternative methods effected a cure, when they are being done in conjunction, or subsequent to, a conventional approach.
 
Greg Mamishian
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Michael Cox wrote:Reading between the lines here; she had some form of conventional treatment first (surgery)?




Of course... to remove the cancer.  Necessary physical treatment is not a problem for it leaves the rest of the body intact. I was referring to the popular collective paradigm of chemical and radiological poisoning.

Look at this forum. It's all about not poisoning the environment. It's anti pollution anti chemical and anti nuke.

Isn't it ironic how we can believe that we should treat our internal environment in exactly the opposite way as our external environment?



 
Tyler Ludens
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Greg Mamishian wrote:
Of course... to remove the cancer.



To me it looks like the surgery to remove the cancer cured the cancer, not the alternative treatments to conventional post-op treatments.

 
Tyler Ludens
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Greg Mamishian wrote:
Look at this forum. It's all about not poisoning the environment. It's anti pollution anti chemical and anti nuke.

Isn't it ironic how we can believe that we should treat our internal environment in exactly the opposite way as our external environment?



I have tremendous reservations about radiation and chemical treatments for cancer.  My husband's form of cancer is generally not curable and treatments are used to knock the cancer back, supposedly, so the patient has fewer symptoms.  I don't know how one can tell one has fewer symptoms while being poisoned.  I don't want my husband to be tortured, so if he develops symptoms it will be entirely up to him to choose conventional treatment if he wants it.  To me it looks as though maintaining or improving general health might be just as beneficial as conventional treatment, without the side effects, so I continue to encourage him to improve health habits such as diet and exercise.  This opinion is only about CLL, not other types of cancer, which I know little about. But there is no downside to improving one's health, no matter what illness one might have.

 
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I met a lady in the grocery store last week that said that 2 decades ago, she was diagnosed with stage 4 brain cancer. The doctors offered radiation and chemotherapy which she refused, but she did allow them to cut the tumor out. Then she went on a zero sugar diet which she attributes to curing her.

 
Michael Cox
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Joseph Lofthouse wrote: ...she did allow them to cut the tumor out. Then she went on a zero sugar diet which she attributes to curing her.



So another case of conventional treatment first, but diet getting the credit?
 
Michael Cox
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Cancer treatment stats...


The analysis covers all cancer cases diagnosed in England from 2013 to 2014. That’s more than half a million diagnoses.

Looking at all these cases combined, surgery to remove the tumour was the most commonly used primary treatment.

More than 4 in 10 (45%) patients were treated with surgery to remove their tumour. While almost 3 in 10 patients were treated with chemotherapy (28%) and radiotherapy (27%). Patients in each of these groups may have had the treatment on its own, or in combination with other the treatments.

But a different pattern emerged if the cancer was diagnosed at the earliest or latest stage.

Most patients diagnosed at stage 1 have surgery as part of their treatment (70%). This means they are more than five times as likely to be treated with surgery than patients diagnosed at stage 4 (13%).

While patients diagnosed at stage 4 are around three times as likely (39%) to have chemotherapy than those diagnosed at stage 1 (12%).



Not explicitly stated in the document; many patients are treated with surgery alone and fully cured without supplemental chemo or radiation. If the surgery is itself successful any further intervention (chemo, radiation, diet etc...) is irrelevant.
 
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A cousin went traditional. Just after the last treatment they did a test and found that the cancer had returned. She died a month later.

My mother lived six years with no form of treatment, controlling it with diet. An aunt is currently cancer free and a sister is also controlling it with diet. All of them went different routes--my sister went with a "whole foods" diet, the aunt went vegan, Mom was just careful with her diet and stopped eating sugar altogether. I think it is very  much diet and habit related, with a strong emotional component. I know (or know of) way too many people who were perfectly healthy, went in for a routine exam, Dr. tells them they have cancer and a month or two later they're dead. With one friend, she went in for a routine exam and the Dr. told her she probably had cancer. The day after the tests came back she was in the hospital with an aggressive form of brain cancer, and a week later she was dead.

I also can't discount epigenetics.

But every body and every cancer is different.
 
Lauren Ritz
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I spoke to one of my mother's doctors about what we could expect and he said that they couldn't tell us because there are NO statistics on people who refuse treatment. How can they make a true recommendation, or know that the treatments work even, if they don't keep track of those who refuse treatment? This is a "medical study" with no control run alongside.
 
Tyler Ludens
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My husband feels fine and might have had cancer for years before it was noticed in a blood test.  Two years later he's still symptom-free and doesn't need to see the oncologist for six months, his blood levels have been so stable.  It was extremely stressful to learn he has incurable cancer.  It's a wonder we didn't both get ill from stress! I wonder if the stress of finding out one has cancer may cause some people to experience such severe emotional trauma that they become weakened so the cancer takes over and kills them.

Here's an article about alternative versus conventional treatment outcomes:  https://news.yale.edu/2017/08/10/using-only-alternative-medicine-cancer-linked-lower-survival-rate

It's not surprising that there are no statistics for people who refuse all treatment.  They are not likely to return to the doctor to find out how they are doing.  People following alternative treatments might want to know how well it is working so (it seems to me) would be more likely to return to the oncologist.
 
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Lauren Ritz wrote:I spoke to one of my mother's doctors about what we could expect and he said that they couldn't tell us because there are NO statistics on people who refuse treatment. How can they make a true recommendation, or know that the treatments work even, if they don't keep track of those who refuse treatment? This is a "medical study" with no control run alongside.



Then your doctor was either ill-informed, or had some other agenda. This has been studied, and extensively, for various cancers and the results are clear cut.

Rejecting Cancer Treatment

As for it being a medical study with no control, you have misunderstood how control groups work. When medical treatments are being investigated the control group is usually the currently known best performing treatment. Thus the new treatment being studied is looking at whether it is better than the best, not whether it is better than doing nothing at all. To propose a medical trial that declines all treatment to patients as part of data collection is both misguided and unethical.

What I find particularly disingenuous is when supporters of alternative therapies pedal remedies that have been demonstrated in clinical trials to have no benefits, especially when they then criticize the evidence used to support conventional therapies.

We had Gerson Therapy mentioned earlier:
Gerson Therapy

How Gerson therapists believe it works
Gerson therapists believe that people with cancer have too much salt (sodium) in their bodies compared to the amount of potassium.

They think that eating large quantities of fruit and vegetables will restore the right balance and cleanse the liver. This would allow the liver to rid the body of cancer cells.

Medical research does not support any claims that this therapy can prevent, treat or cure cancer.



Review of clinical evidence for Gerson Therapy

The specific safety problems, advice to stop conventional cancer therapies and the lack of substantial evidence for efficacy outweigh any benefits associated with the Gerson therapy.

 
Greg Mamishian
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Tyler Ludens wrote:

Greg Mamishian wrote:
Look at this forum. It's all about not poisoning the environment. It's anti pollution anti chemical and anti nuke.

Isn't it ironic how we can believe that we should treat our internal environment in exactly the opposite way as our external environment?



I have tremendous reservations about radiation and chemical treatments for cancer.  My husband's form of cancer is generally not curable and treatments are used to knock the cancer back, supposedly, so the patient has fewer symptoms.  I don't know how one can tell one has fewer symptoms while being poisoned.  I don't want my husband to be tortured, so if he develops symptoms it will be entirely up to him to choose conventional treatment if he wants it.  To me it looks as though maintaining or improving general health might be just as beneficial as conventional treatment, without the side effects, so I continue to encourage him to improve health habits such as diet and exercise.  This opinion is only about CLL, not other types of cancer, which I know little about. But there is no downside to improving one's health, no matter what illness one might have.



I totally understand, Tyler. This is an intensely personal decision and doing what you believe is right figures mightily into it. Something else is also the largest factor in this equation... and that is when it our time for us to die. For about five afternoons every week I'm up close and personal with over a hundred people who are near their time to die. It's like a train station where people are waiting for their train to come to take them home. And just as there are friends here who are helping them at the station... there are also friends on the train who are doing exactly the same.

 
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Why can't people just be left alone to deal with it how they want? Its people's own personal choice wether they want to take chemicals in their body, or wether they want to do it naturally? Everyone should have the choice to do what they want with their body without anyone coercing them or forcing them to do anything in particular.
Thanks.
 
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Michael Cox wrote: What I find particularly disingenuous is when supporters of alternative therapies pedal remedies that have been demonstrated in clinical trials to have no benefits, especially when they then criticize the evidence used to support conventional therapies.



In our immature narcissistic culture, people live as if life is an entitlement and they will never die.

This is because they are scared to death of death.
 
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River Hughes wrote:Why can't people just be left alone to deal with it how they want? Its people's own personal choice wether they want to take chemicals in their body, or wether they want to do it naturally? Everyone should have the choice to do what they want with their body without anyone coercing them or forcing them to do anything in particular.
Thanks.



That is a great sentiment. The trouble is cancer, and its treatment, is incredibly complex. And it isn't even one disease, but hundreds - potentially thousands - of different ones all with different potential complications, life expectancies, optimal treatment paths etc... No lay person, and very few doctors, have a sufficiently complete understanding of the situation that they can be considered qualified to give advice. And yet every man and his dog has an opinion and a recommendation. And many of those recommendations are just downright dangerous. When overconfidence, wishful thinking and desperation all come together there is a perfect recipe for harm.

I'm never going to force someone to take a particular treatment path, but I will fight tooth and nail to make sure that they actually have good evidence to back their decision. And I will call out peddlers of snake oil along the way.
 
Greg Mamishian
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River Hughes wrote:Why can't people just be left alone to deal with it how they want? Its people's own personal choice wether they want to take chemicals in their body, or wether they want to do it naturally? Everyone should have the choice to do what they want with their body without anyone coercing them or forcing them to do anything in particular.
Thanks.



You already are being left alone and everyone already has the choice to do whatever they want.

No one has the power to force you to do anything.
 
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Tyler Ludens wrote:

Greg Mamishian wrote:
Of course... to remove the cancer.



To me it looks like the surgery to remove the cancer cured the cancer, not the alternative treatments to conventional post-op treatments.



Tyler, curing cancer by removal through surgery is entirely possible, even though most doctors totally disagree with this. I'm certain that there are many people would do just fine without chemotherapy and radiation, but no one could ever know because they go down the same road as everyone else so their survival becomes misattributed to chemicals and radiation. Doctors are only trying to protect themselves from liability lawsuits so they tell everyone they have to do chemotherapy and radiation or the cancer will return and kill them.

My wife wanted to increase her odds by doing a variety of positive beneficial wholistic methods as they didn't degrade the quality of her life. The side effects are zero. She is healthy and happy and enjoying life. Toxic chemicals and damaging radiation totally screw up people's bodies. We've seen that happen way too many times with our friends. If people believe in the traditional medical treatments there is nothing to stop them from doing whatever they want.
 
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Tyler Ludens wrote:Here's an article about alternative versus conventional treatment outcomes:  https://news.yale.edu/2017/08/10/using-only-alternative-medicine-cancer-linked-lower-survival-rate



Interesting article. So they took a limited group of people who were already in advanced stages of cancer before they looked for medical treatment, and compared to those who chose only medical treatment (and were likely diagnosed early). Apparently no indication of how long they'd had cancer (difficult to determine at that point) or how healthy they were during that period. No mention of what therapies were effective or less effective. As the article states, there's little research on alternative therapies.

But how many of those survived for years without treatment? How many had aggressive cancers? What was the definition of "treatment"? What were the comparative ages of the study participants? How many of them went from natural to conventional, and how many refused the conventional to the end? So many questions not answered that I have to question the study itself.  As did they. "The American College of Surgeons and the Commission on Cancer have not verified and are not responsible for the analytic or statistical methodology employed, or the conclusions drawn from these data by the researchers." And since that information should have been part of the study...which is not linked in the article...hm...

Tyler Ludens wrote:It's not surprising that there are no statistics for people who refuse all treatment.  They are not likely to return to the doctor to find out how they are doing.  People following alternative treatments might want to know how well it is working so (it seems to me) would be more likely to return to the oncologist.



My mother went to her oncologist regularly until the very end. She had doctors try to refuse tests, saying it wouldn't do any good because she wasn't taking their recommended treatments. We kept careful track of medical records, blood work, etc. We can't be the only ones who did. But that information is not available, not because the patients don't come in but because the doctors see no point in collecting it. Others I know also visit their oncologists, although the reactions range from "Why are you doing this when you won't follow our advice?" to continual pressure trying to get them to take the radiation or whatnot. The information is there. My question would be, why is it not being used?
 
Tyler Ludens
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Lauren Ritz wrote: The information is there. My question would be, why is it not being used?



Maybe because the information is so vague and difficult to pry out of people.  For instance in this thread, it has been very difficult to get any solid information about successful alternative cancer treatments.  People are posting what seems to me only tantalizing hints.  "Whole foods diet" "careful with diet" "no sugar" (with no definition of what is meant by "sugar") "cleansing herbs" etc.  Even what kinds of cancer have been cured has not been detailed, even though there are some 100 distinct kinds of cancer and if one has been diagnosed with cancer, one will have been told specifically what kind it is.

Maybe someone has posted detailed information and I have just missed it.

 
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Michael Cox wrote:

Joseph Lofthouse wrote: ...she did allow them to cut the tumor out. Then she went on a zero sugar diet which she attributes to curing her.



So another case of conventional treatment first, but diet getting the credit?



That's one way of looking at it, but since stage 4 means the cancer has spread to other parts of the body, just cutting out the tumor can't have cured the cancer.

Either way, I'm skeptical of both conventional and unconventional methods.  I don't think there is an easy answer.
 
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