brand new video:
       
get all 177 hours of
presentations here.
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic

Raw milk  RSS feed

 
Mike Durante
Posts: 2
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hiya,

I've been drinking raw milk for a while now because I think it just makes sense (and because it tastes better than the grocery store stuff!). My friends, like most Americans, think I'm a bit crazy for taking this "risk" with my health.

Could anyone provide a strong, brief explanation for choosing raw milk over pasteurized milk, in terms of human health? I think raw milk is a great instance of food as medicine, though mainstream thinking may consider it exactly the opposite.

Thanks!
 
R Scott
Posts: 3351
Location: Kansas Zone 6a
32
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Lots of good (and bad) info out on the internet about it.

What I do know: Pastuerizing denatures some of the proteins and vitamins and kills the enzymes. That makes it less nutritous and harder to digest. It also makes it much easier to ship and store, hence the desire for big ag to do it.

The risk of contamination is small, but not zero. You really have to know who you are buying from and know how to treat it to be really sure--it is a TRUST thing.

IMO it is safer than buying hamburger. or peanut butter. or spinach.
 
Mike Durante
Posts: 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Thanks R Scott! I know Sarah Pope is moderating this forum this week. Sarah - do you have any concise arguments in favor of raw milk as health food?
 
Brett Judd
Posts: 3
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
As I have made the change to a WAP diet, I have realized that I can not care what my family/other think. Particularly if they are unwilling to read and learn from this side and not just the pro-pharma dogma.

My kids love raw milk and I have a daughter that would live on it if she was allowed. I think Sarah for her blog in getting me educated and converted to this.

The comments about knowing your farm is right. The dairy were we get our milk is great. The air does not reek and it is pleasant to be there. It makes me feel good about the milk I buy and that I am supporting this farm.

 
Devon Olsen
Posts: 1066
Location: SE Wyoming -zone 4
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
i heard in a recent podcast from Paul that raw milk, unlike pasturized milk, actually kills e coli and all the other "bad guys" that raw milk has been outlawed for, this is because there are plenty of "good guys" capable of fighting them off, in the study mentioned, pasturized milk immediately became infected
this was according to some study he had heard about, i'd love to see a link to the study

also, a lot of grocery store milk is homogenized, enabling the farmer to mistreat the cows and sell milk with blood and pus mixed in (i SWEAR to god, every gallon ive gotten at walmart is guilty of this,) because the homogenizing just keeps it all mixed up and looking the same, but damn, Wal-Mart milk is NASTY

*edited for just a touch more clarity*
 
Susan Waibel
Posts: 4
  • Likes 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I tend not to argue safety with folks who try to convince me that I am putting my kids at risk. I just tell them my story and why it led me to MY choice: when my husband and I learned of the benefits of raw milk, we did have some concerns because of the broad view that it is very unsafe. He was a medical student at the time and I hold a BS in biochemistry and worked in scientific research. Therefore we felt confident we could sift through the literature ourselves rather than relying on secondary information. What surprised us is what we DIDN'T find. In the dairy industries own journals, we found NO research on safety of any sort. With all the media buzz about safety of dairy being of mega-importance, it was odd to me that ongoing studies were absent in our findings. What we DID find was study after study about how to best market (pasteurized) milk to the masses. When we got to the study where they had a panel of taste-testers see what they thought of pasteurized milk from cows with mastitis, determining that YES they could sneak this milk in but it would need a slightly shorter shelf life, we knew we were done with our research and done with pasteurized milk forever.

This is the story I told my state representative when I met with her about Minnesota's Fair Milk Access Bill when she asked me about safety. I will not tell another family how to determine what foods are safe and nourishing for their family, but the above is how our family decided on which milk to drink. I now advocate that ALL milk drinkers do their own research. Drinking pasteurized milk is a choice too -- so I feel when people ask me to "learn about the dangers of raw milk", its fair for me to urge them to learn more about their choice too.

Another important aspect in any food safety discussion is "terrain". For us raw milk is part of a nourishing, whole foods diet. We want our bodies' terrains to be able to handle any pathogens that we may come into contact with. When we start sterilizing our food supply, we take away the massive contribution that whole, living foods confer on our ability to fight these pathogens.

A great resource is realmilk.com. There are several articles right on the front page that may be of interest to those who want to learn more.
 
John Polk
steward
Posts: 8019
Location: Currently in Lake Stevens, WA. Home in Spokane
289
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I totally agree that each person should do their own research regarding the raw milk issue.
While researching, one should also consider this issue:
“The Devil in the Milk” — Dr. Thomas Cowan on how the A1 – A2 factor explains why even raw milk sometimes does not seem to be enough of an improvement over “store-bought”


The article is available here: http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2009/03/20/the-devil-in-the-milk-dr-thomas-cowan-on-how-a2-milk-is-the-answer-to-the-mystery-of-why-even-raw-milk-sometimes-does-not-seem-to-be-enough-of-an-improvement-over-store-bought/

 
Sarah Pope
Presenter
Posts: 49
Location: Tampa, Florida
2
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Realmilk.com is a fantastic resource for answering the "why" question about raw milk. Just remember though, not all raw milk is good. I certainly wouldn't drink raw milk from confined cows being fed unnatural feed and subjected to steroids and antibiotics. THAT raw milk is gross and needs to be pasteurized as it would make folks sick if they drank it.

Raw GRASSFED milk is what you want from happy cows on pasture eating green grass. This is the raw milk that is nutrient dense, clean and (best of all) delicious!

I personally think folks are crazy for not drinking it!
 
Jocelyn Campbell
steward
Posts: 4205
Location: Missoula, MT
393
books food preservation forest garden hugelkultur toxin-ectomy
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John Polk wrote:I totally agree that each person should do their own research regarding the raw milk issue.
While researching, one should also consider this issue:
“The Devil in the Milk” — Dr. Thomas Cowan on how the A1 – A2 factor explains why even raw milk sometimes does not seem to be enough of an improvement over “store-bought”


The article is available here: http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2009/03/20/the-devil-in-the-milk-dr-thomas-cowan-on-how-a2-milk-is-the-answer-to-the-mystery-of-why-even-raw-milk-sometimes-does-not-seem-to-be-enough-of-an-improvement-over-store-bought/



John, this is fascinating and if I do try raw milk, it sounds like a good idea to source cows with the A2 genetics. One commenter on that article wrote:
Jennifer Schafer wrote:Jerseys, Irish Kerry, dexter, milking devon, milking shorthorn, guernsey, brown swiss all have a good chance of being A-2 milkers.
 
John Polk
steward
Posts: 8019
Location: Currently in Lake Stevens, WA. Home in Spokane
289
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Since you mentioned that Dexters have a good chance of being A2 types, it brings to mind that while researching Dexter breeders, I noticed that the better breeders will specify which type their calves are. They do the testing on each before offering for sale.

It was noted that when New Zealand switched to Holsteins (more profitable), many of the dairy owners noted a declining health amongst family members. Now, most dairies keep one Jersey cow for family milk, and the rest Holsteins for market milk.

 
John Polk
steward
Posts: 8019
Location: Currently in Lake Stevens, WA. Home in Spokane
289
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I should also point out that Jersey milk has much more cream than Holstein milk.
That, to me, is why it tastes so much better.

(French cheese makers will NOT use Holstein milk.)
 
R Scott
Posts: 3351
Location: Kansas Zone 6a
32
  • Likes 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John Polk wrote:It was noted that when New Zealand switched to Holsteins (more profitable), many of the dairy owners noted a declining health amongst family members. Now, most dairies keep one Jersey cow for family milk, and the rest Holsteins for market milk.



That is a sign of a failed MORAL system--no way I could sell something that I wouldn't use myself.
 
Becky Lynn
Posts: 4
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Raw milk has changed my life from severe chronic sinus infections and allergies to relief! I have been drinking raw milk for eight years. All of our family is healthy, no broken bones, or severe injuries in young men in contact sports. See the Organic Pastures website for more information: http://organicpastures.com/
Mark McAfee is a wonderful resource about raw milk.
 
Ted Scott
Posts: 8
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I ran into a whole group of medical issues at the beginning of the year, mostly around my Rheumatoid arthritis, so made wholesale life style changes.
After dropping grains and legumes, I looked to WAP and decided to try raw milk. I looked around at the local dairy farms that were available to choose from, and decided after finding my Jersey cow farm, that I liked what I saw, and heard from the owners. They only have 15 cows, well, now 4 new wee ones this summer,and when I asked about how many they were milking back then, I was told only 5 were being milked, and that 4 were pregnant. They have quite an age range, up into the 20's if I heard correctly. In the factory farms, as I understand it, they keep the cows pregnant, and when they wear out at about 2 to 3 years old, they become hamburger.
I also can go anytime to watch the milking process, with limited cows, they do a good job of cleaning, and drying the teats off before attaching the milking equiptment. They also have a great older cooler, so safety is a high priority. The owners have about a dozen grandchildren, and I am one of less than 2 dozen customers, so it is a small scale farm, just what I was looking for.
After I lost 20 pounds, my wife suddenly became interested in my new diet/life style, and agreed to come to the farm and check it out. She is a city girl, and although she doesn't join me in scratching the cow and goats heads, she did start drinking raw milk, and eating my home made raw milk kefir, ice cream and yogurt.
I hope my story gives some tips on finding the right farm for you, I would not want to even consider buying milk again from a retail store.
 
Sarah Pope
Presenter
Posts: 49
Location: Tampa, Florida
2
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
The A1/A2 thing is a bit overblown I think. I even did a video on it and Mark McAfee of Organic Pastures Dairy in California responded on that blog post saying that they've now found that A1/A1 is more a factor of what the cows are eating rather than the breed of cow.

In other words, holsteins eating grass will produce A2 milk and jerseys eating GMO grain will produce A1 milk.

Check out that post on my blog for Mark's complete and thorough comment on that issue.
 
John Polk
steward
Posts: 8019
Location: Currently in Lake Stevens, WA. Home in Spokane
289
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My research has shown that the A1/A2 characteristic is from the genes of the sire/dam.

For example, Dexters can be either, depending on whether the gene has been mutated or not.
There are breeders out there who list the gene type(s) of the parents.
These mixed breeders are all sharing the same pasture.

 
violeta ateloiv
Posts: 2
  • Likes 6
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Here's a little something I translated form an article by Anita Supe. She is a nutritionist and dietician who completed her studies in the field at the Göteborgs Universitet in Sweden. She wrote the book "Truth and Lies About Food" (only available in the Croatian and Swedish languages though):

"Here are some scientifically proven facts about what happens when the milk is pasteurized:

• The majority of vitamins B6, B12, thiamine, folic acid, vitamin C and vitamin D are destroyed.
• Vitally important enzymes are deactivated. Enzymes are biological catalysts necessary for the absorption of nutrients from milk.
• The phosphate enzyme, which is essential for calcium absorption, is completely deactivated. The decalcification of pasteurized milk can cause osteoporosis, especially in children.
• The enzyme lipase, required for the breakdown of fat in milk, is destroyed.
• Lactobacteria are destroyed. Studies shows that lactose bacteria help produce the enzyme lactase, which is lacking in people who cannot tolerate the dairy lactose sugar. This explains why most of the lactose intolerant can drink unpasteurized milk without problems.
• The protein in milk changes its structure, which leads to allergies in children and in adults.
• Lactose (dairy sugar) is converted into betalactose which quickly raises the blood sugar. This leads to excessive weight gain. Just the opposite of what we believed, nonfat milk easily leads to obesity as opposed to whole unpasteurized milk.
• Betalactoglobulin, which helps exploit vitamin A in the body, is destroyed.
• The Wulzen factor (anti-stiffness factor), is found only in unheated milk. This is a substance which protects animals and humans against hardening of the joints - arthritis.
• One quarter of iodine in milk is destroyed. Iodine is essential for the synthesis of thyroid hormones, which among other things regulates metabolism.
• Natural antibacterial properties of milk and immune strengthening properties are destroyed. In other words, the milk becomes easily susceptible to bad bacteria.

In addition research shows that:

• The consumption of pasteurized milk is associated with type 1 diabetes. Scientists have found a protein in pasteurized milk, which "triggers" autoimmune reaction that destroys the cells that produce insulin.
• Pasteurized milk is associated with ovarian cancer. Women who consume pasteurized milk have three times greater risk of developing ovarian cancer.
• Pasteurized milk is associated with multiple sclerosis and infertility women.
• Pasteurized milk contains and cholesterol-epoxy and cholesterol-oxide (oxidized cholesterol). Studies have shown that oxidized cholesterol contributes to the development of cancer and hardening of the arteries.

Do you still want to drink pasteurized milk? You're afraid of "microbial contamination", or in other words that the milk will spoil?

Milk has its own immune system!

Pasteurization began in the 1920’s at a time when tuberculosis was common as well as other infectious diseases caused by poor animal health and poor hygienic conditions and production methods. But times have changed and today it is processed in stainless steel tanks, milking machines and systems for cooling, and implemented strict sanitary inspection. Pasteurization thus becomes completely unnecessary. The only person who benefits from pasteurized milk is the pasteurization industry because it extends the shelf life.

Unpasteurized milk is the only food that has its own built-in protection mechanism. It can be said that the milk has its own immune system. Milk that comes from cows contains several substances that actually kill the bacteria that gets into the milk! To name a few: lactoperoxidase, lactoferrin, leukocytes, macrophages, neutrophils, antibodies, fatty acids and lysozyme. Aiding in the prevention of foreign bacteria penetrating through the stomach and intestines are polysaccharides, oligosaccharides, mucins, fibronectin and Glycomacropeptides . To strengthen the immune system lymphocytes, immunoglobulins, antibodies, hormones and growth factors are activated.

Another process with milk is homogenization. In this process, fat molecules break under pressure, to prevent the creation of cream on milk. This is a very unnatural process because the fat produced does not have its natural structure. In addition, the milk fat is removed (skimmed) so that the consumer gets milk which contains 3% milk fat at most. For comparison: I buy milk directly from farmers, from Jersey cattle breed, and it contains more than 6% milk fat. The worst thing is that consumers are deceived that whole milk is harmful and nonfat skim milk is good and healthy.

More than enough reason to provide fresh milk industry unpasteurized milk every day in our stores. But what about the claim that the milk is pasteurized in order to "protect" consumers? This propaganda is just another myth and the truth is that the milk is pasteurized only to protect the dairy industry, which benefits from an extended shelf life milk, forcing us to drink a product of poor quality. Pasteurization masks bad milk since contaminated milk containing pathogenic bacteria is "purified" through pasteurization.

Nature has created a perfect system, and a unique food product which pasteurization completely destroys. Be aware of and engage consumers and demand their right to a choice of quality food production."


Hope this helps.
 
Devon Olsen
Posts: 1066
Location: SE Wyoming -zone 4
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Is it possible to get the source for that article?
i would like to share it with some picky friends that arent moved without some kind of scientific fact behind it lol

thank you very much for sharing
 
John Polk
steward
Posts: 8019
Location: Currently in Lake Stevens, WA. Home in Spokane
289
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
She did say the book was only available in Swedish or Croatian.


 
Devon Olsen
Posts: 1066
Location: SE Wyoming -zone 4
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
right but the first sentence said that she translated that little bit from an article...
 
Chris Griffin
Posts: 54
Location: Eastern edge of the Blue Ridge Mnts. Virginia
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
My wife and I are on the back side of our goat's milk production... Yesterday I had to buy a quart of store milk, YUCK! Whole cow's milk is not much better than drinking water.

One point I would like to add to the benefits of raw milk, pasteurization causes calcium to come out of solution. You have to add a chemical to get it back into solution after you pasteurize. Anyone making cheese should know this since the calcium in solution is what makes good large curd. Chris
 
violeta ateloiv
Posts: 2
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Devon Olsen wrote:Is it possible to get the source for that article?
i would like to share it with some picky friends that arent moved without some kind of scientific fact behind it lol


I do have some sources which might be of use to you. The following webpage is an English review of her book I found: http://www.westonaprice.org/thumbs-up-reviews/true-and-false-about-diet-by-anita-supe
There is also a website called http://realmilk.com/ which has many facts about raw milk on it as well, so that can be something to show your friends.
Hope this helps.

On a side note, in my original post there are a couple of corrections which need to be made:
-->"phosphate enzyme" should have read "phosphatase enzyme"
--> "More than enough reason to provide fresh milk industry unpasteurized milk every day in our stores." should have read "More than enough reason for the milk industry to provide fresh unpasteurized milk every day in our stores."

Sorry about that.

 
Moody Vaden
Posts: 55
Location: Maryland
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John Polk wrote:It was noted that when New Zealand switched to Holsteins (more profitable), many of the dairy owners noted a declining health amongst family members. Now, most dairies keep one Jersey cow for family milk, and the rest Holsteins for market milk.



Many Amish selling raw milk in my area do the same thing.
 
Leila Rich
steward
Posts: 3999
Location: Wellington, New Zealand. Temperate, coastal, sandy, windy,
88
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
John Polk wrote:It was noted that when New Zealand switched to Holsteins (more profitable), many of the dairy owners noted a declining health amongst family members. Now, most dairies keep one Jersey cow for family milk, and the rest Holsteins for market milk.

John, do you have a link for that, or is the info in the article you linked already?
Ya learn something every day; I'd never made the connection between Holsteins and Friesians. They're only both enormous, black-and-white, industrially farmed milk-machines
 
John Polk
steward
Posts: 8019
Location: Currently in Lake Stevens, WA. Home in Spokane
289
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
is the info in the article you linked already?


Yes, it was in the article.

 
Michael Sieler
Posts: 13
Location: Boise, Idaho
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
After listening to Paul's recent podcast with sally fallon about raw milk, I decided to try a 30 day experiment myself. I'm drinking a half cup a day and not changing anything else about my diet.

So far I've noticed none of the problems I usually have after consuming dairy (more than usual gas, upset stomach, runny nose, etc.).

 
Devon Olsen
Posts: 1066
Location: SE Wyoming -zone 4
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
glad to see the podcast is out, beginning to listen to it now
 
darin glorioso
Posts: 2
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
I've an "if"/"and"/"then" sort of question.

If cows,especially organic and biodynamic cows not wearing insecticidal ear tags,are being fed on by deer ticks

And they have the bacterias/parasites which causes lyme disease in their blood

Then might those organisms be in the raw milk and be able to live outside the body?

Anyone know of data gathered regarding lyme bacteria and parasites in raw,even pasterized,milk products?

Btw,the cow here is Gheeta,a rescue from the slaughterhouse and perhaps america's one and only commercial ahimsa dairy cow.
06092011004.jpg
[Thumbnail for 06092011004.jpg]
 
Nick Kitchener
Posts: 477
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
10
  • Likes 1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
lol
482660_427338794025061_107504379_n.jpg
[Thumbnail for 482660_427338794025061_107504379_n.jpg]
 
Henry Ikeme
Posts: 39
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
This is mind blowing, I need to do some research.
 
Steven Joel
Posts: 15
Location: Victoria, Australia
1
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
Hi All, This news article led me to look into raw milk and I ended up here reading this thread.....

I thought I would add it to the conversation.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-11/raw-milk-company-defends-product-after-3yos-death/5959246

As a result of the death of this child it is now law in Victoria, Australia that a bittering agent is added to raw milk to make it unpalatable.
This law was rushed through in a very short time with apparently very little study being done.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-31/melbourne-protesters-angry-about-new-laws-on-raw-milk/6059490
 
John Master
Posts: 519
Location: Wisconsin
7
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
for drinking milk, raw is best, know your farmer and his practices. Like they said it comes with it's own built in defense system against pathogens, when drinking raw milk it helps your bodies own defenses against illness as well, one reason why the traditional people Weston price studied enjoyed such great health their whole lives.
 
Katy Whitby-last
Posts: 280
Location: North East Scotland
1
forest garden goat trees
  • Mark post as helpful
  • send pies
  • Quote
  • Report post to moderator
We drink raw milk as we have our own goats but for making yoghurt I do heat it so that I can keep the yoghurt culture going and reuse it. Does this mean that my yoghurt will have the detrimental effects listed above for pasteurised milk?
 
Pay attention! Tiny ad!
FT Position Available: Affiliate Manager Who Loves Permaculture & Homesteading
https://permies.com/t/69742/FT-Position-Affiliate-Manager-Loves
  • Post Reply Bookmark Topic Watch Topic
  • New Topic
Boost this thread!