Help needed to persuade my trail gang to use electric chainsaws

I maintain a few miles of trails but I’m also part of a larger conservation group. Most of the time I work on my own unless there’s large tasks to do, typically after a storm when trees have come down. Then we all head out and work together. I’m happy with my bow saw, lopers and hand axe, but I’m alone in this respect. Everyone else wants to use traditional fossil fuelled chainsaws, which is understandable if that’s all they know. We have a healthy budget apparently - I’m just a minion, so don’t know exactly how much but there was talk of buying two new chainsaws. I love them to consider an electric chainsaw. Alas, I know very little about them, but I figure they’re the future and I’ve read posts here from people using them. So I’m after some first hand experiences of electric chain saw owners. How do they compare, what can you do on one charge, do you carry spare batteries, etc.? We’re not clearing forests all day, just clearing a few fallen trees as a team. I know it’s a big ask, but I’d really like them to at least think about going electric. Thanks.

I switched to makita wireless a couple of years ago and it works really well for everyday use, with a supercharger and two sets of back up batteries there’s plenty of juice for any work I’ve needed to do and not dealing with the noise, smell, warm up time, and less weight is simply better.

Here is a comparison between gas and the 36v one: https://youtu.be/MDyjY3uiWp0 and thorough review of it: https://youtu.be/YvuBUVMNICQ

I’ve heard  DeWalt ones are also great but my experience with this one has been very good.

Hi Edward,

I have both an 18” gas saw and a 12” cheapo electric saw.  By far, I use the electric saw more often.

I really like the electric saws as I can simply pick up the saw, squeeze the trigger and go.  There is no muss or fuss with starting, no fuel to spill out in the woods and when I am done I can just release the trigger, and lay the chainsaw down in any position I want—again, no fuel issues.

My chainsaw is a Kobalt and it is OK for my purposes.  But for yours, I might consider a longer bar, and a saw that accepts a battery larger than 2.5 amps.  I know that there are some 4 and 6 amp batteries out there and a pair of those would likely last you all day.

I hope this helps,

Eric

Edward, I guess the petrol heads understand petrol power, they can go for hours, top up fuel when needed and they may love the noise.
You will need to research and find information to show your petrolhead mates that an electric saw can match the petrol in the type of work you all do.
They may be planning to borrow the gear for home jobs, so be on to that.
The second reference I have found may give you the answer you want, 31aH batteries.
You need an electric saw that can go as long as the petrol ones for a start.
Suppliers may have already done the figures I am suggesting.
Good luck with it.
Here are some reports
1 - Is an electric chainsaw as good as a petrol?

An electric chainsaw will give you enough power to prune trees and cut small branches.
But if you're looking for something more powerful, your best bet is always petrol. ... A medium range chainsaw has a 40-50 cc engine and can take on larger projects like cutting firewood and clearing thicker trees.

From petrol-vs-battery-chainsaws-the-best-chainsaw-for-every-job
2 - What size battery do I need for my battery chainsaw?
Depending on what you intend to use your chainsaw for most, there are a few guidelines that can help you make up your mind. Depending on the battery size and power, operating time on a single full charge will vary. The below working times are based on a 536LiXP Chainsaw.

BLi20 (4.0Ah) from 25 minutes to 2 hour 25 minutes, depending on the task
BLi200 (5.2Ah) from 35 minutes to 3 hour 5 minutes, depending on the task
BLi300 (9.4Ah) from 1 hour to 5 hours 35 minutes, depending on the task
BLi550X (15.6Ah) from 1 hour 40 minutes to 9 hours 20 minutes, depending on the task
BLi950X (31.1Ah) from 3 hours 20 minutes to 18 hours 40 minutes, depending on the task

Range of Chainsaws from Husky chainsaws frtom Husky

I've been down that same road Edward. Years ago with a trail crew I worked with & now in the forest I live in & maintain. Not to mention too many homeowners over the years. I have zero experience with electric chainsaws so can't speak for that. Chainsaws are easy & very effective so I guess that's the appeal. They're heavy though. Especially if they have to be hiked into a remote area. I carry a machete everywhere. With practice a person can fell or limb a tree with one almost as fast as a chainsaw. Maybe you can demonstrate it to them. Since they are conservationists explain that every year million of gallons of bar oil is carried into the forests. None comes out. Maybe that will click their internal light bulb.

Last month when hurricane Ida hit us we had several downed trees blocking trails. Except for one huge mamma jamma I cleared them all with a machete. Not for lack of chainsaws, we have plenty of those. I just prefer a machete or sometimes an axe.

I have one of these: https://www.grainger.com/product/53JH21 and I love it. I’m no lumberjack or arborist, and I’m sure there are normal things it can’t do, but I’ve been on my new 20 acre property in the woods for a year and it’s kept up so far. Even if I end up eventually buying a big Stihl or something for big jobs, I bet I use the electric a lot more.

And I’m never out all day cutting trees, but the only time I’ve run out of juice is when I didn’t charge the battery after a job and just expect it to be full three weeks later. I can certainly drop, limb, and buck a couple six-inch trees without considering my battery, but I’m not sure how much more.

ETA: we also have an electric mower that gets more use as a yard cart pulling a trailer, but I love my electric tools for their quiet and smell. I know that’s just putting the fuel-burning in someone else’s yard, but more and more of our grid is wind-powered and that won’t ever be true for a little gas engine.

Hey,

My neighbour bough an electric chainsaw, He had to recharge the thing multiple time to cut down one tree.
It was also terrible for cutting through anything 800mm in diameter.

The chains are weaker and come loose,
They lack power.
All batteries last a few years,
and with time the charge storage potential gets less.
You would have to have many batteries, which you need a power point to charge, and that is not great off grid.
So what are you going to carry a generator to run off diesel to charge them?

I like petrol because it works, its strong, the petrol chainsaws are made to last,
But until I was 9 years old I needed help starting the Huskie chainsaw! petrol chainsaws are a little bit difficult to start!

Unlike the eclectic chainsaws that are sold cheap to the Joe blow in the hardware store who just wants to cut down a couple trees you and I would shred through with a foot, or a pocket saw.

in short my neighbour gave up and bought a petrol powered chainsaw,
I would rather use a hand tool over an electric chainsaw by principle. Because what I saw (lol) was a tool that was not reliable and even though it was really easy to use, had very limited power, limited use, was flimsy.
I would hate to rely on an electric Chainsaw,

They make tools to a price these days,

That is my experience and opinion!

We have three saws at home.

A small electric Stihl saw, a fairly chunky petrol saw, and a whopping saw that powers our sawmill and is used for cross cutting the few massive logs we get.

I default to the electric for pretty much all routine jobs around the property. It is light to carry, quiet to use (less antisocial for people working nearby) and I get a good 30 minutes of continuous cutting, which suits me for the vast majority of my regular jobs. Getting a couple of spare battery packs would be a lovely bonus, and would make bigger working sessions more viable.

When we are in our woods I tend to use the medium petrol saw for coppice work and felling, but when I walk the boundary path I carry (comfortably!) the electric saw for tidying up any fallen stuff. We have about a mile of path to maintain, and I have never yet needed more than the small electric. I like to think of it as a heavy pruning tool, rather than a felling tool.

Responding to some of the comments above; you get what you pay for in terms of quality, especially when it comes to batteries. Cheap battery tools are often advertised as having higher battery capacity than they actually deliver in practice. This is one of the scenarios where paying for a brand name quality is probably worth it.

I think these tools definitely deserve a place in the tool kit, and I find myself defaulting to picking up the smaller saw most of the time. A while back I read a review by a tree surgeon who ran a business with a team of workers. In their operation they used the big petrol saws for the falling work, but had small electric saw down by the chipper. It saw use on the ground to rapidly cut big branches down to size to run through the chipper. The instant start, low maintenance, low noise, low vibration aspects were attractive in that situation.

Andrés Bernal wrote:I switched to makita wireless a couple of years ago and it works really well for everyday use, with a supercharger and two sets of back up batteries there’s plenty of juice for any work I’ve needed to do and not dealing with the noise, smell, warm up time, and less weight is simply better.

Great point about noise, smell, warm up time and weight. I’ll add that to my pro’s and con’s list. I didn’t realise Makita made chainsaws - good to know because we already have some Makita battery tools back at the shed. Thanks.

Eric Hanson wrote:I really like the electric saws as I can simply pick up the saw, squeeze the trigger and go.  There is no muss or fuss with starting, no fuel to spill out in the woods and when I am done I can just release the trigger, and lay the chainsaw down in any position I want—again, no fuel issues.

Thanks for your reply Eric. The squeeze and go would be great. Too often the gas ones are just idling. Great feedback.

John C Daley wrote:Edward, I guess the petrol heads understand petrol power, they can go for hours, top up fuel when needed and they may love the noise.
You will need to research and find information to show your petrolhead mates that an electric saw can match the petrol in the type of work you all do.
They may be planning to borrow the gear for home jobs, so be on to that.
The second reference I have found may give you the answer you want, 31aH batteries.
You need an electric saw that can go as long as the petrol ones for a start.
Suppliers may have already done the figures I am suggesting.
Good luck with it.
Here are some reports
1 - Is an electric chainsaw as good as a petrol?

An electric chainsaw will give you enough power to prune trees and cut small branches.
But if you're looking for something more powerful, your best bet is always petrol. ... A medium range chainsaw has a 40-50 cc engine and can take on larger projects like cutting firewood and clearing thicker trees.

From petrol-vs-battery-chainsaws-the-best-chainsaw-for-every-job
2 - What size battery do I need for my battery chainsaw?
Depending on what you intend to use your chainsaw for most, there are a few guidelines that can help you make up your mind. Depending on the battery size and power, operating time on a single full charge will vary. The below working times are based on a 536LiXP Chainsaw.

BLi20 (4.0Ah) from 25 minutes to 2 hour 25 minutes, depending on the task
BLi200 (5.2Ah) from 35 minutes to 3 hour 5 minutes, depending on the task
BLi300 (9.4Ah) from 1 hour to 5 hours 35 minutes, depending on the task
BLi550X (15.6Ah) from 1 hour 40 minutes to 9 hours 20 minutes, depending on the task
BLi950X (31.1Ah) from 3 hours 20 minutes to 18 hours 40 minutes, depending on the task

Range of Chainsaws from Husky chainsaws frtom Husky

Thanks John - great stuff. Great background information. Point taken on the 31A batteries. They might be over kill but having that as an option will help with ‘range anxiety’ . . .  When we had a hurricane sweep through last year, the state or some other group, provided contractors who cleared all the big stuff. And we still have some big gas chainsaws if we need them. 90% of what we do could be done with a less powerful machine and a 40-50cc chainsaw. Cheers.

Mike Barkley wrote:I've been down that same road Edward. Years ago with a trail crew I worked with & now in the forest I live in & maintain. Not to mention too many homeowners over the years. I have zero experience with electric chainsaws so can't speak for that. Chainsaws are easy & very effective so I guess that's the appeal. They're heavy though. Especially if they have to be hiked into a remote area. I carry a machete everywhere. With practice a person can fell or limb a tree with one almost as fast as a chainsaw. Maybe you can demonstrate it to them. Since they are conservationists explain that every year million of gallons of bar oil is carried into the forests. None comes out. Maybe that will click their internal light bulb.

Last month when hurricane Ida hit us we had several downed trees blocking trails. Except for one huge mamma jamma I cleared them all with a machete. Not for lack of chainsaws, we have plenty of those. I just prefer a machete or sometimes an axe.

Thanks Mike, great idea. I spent the last couple of days making things from wood with hand-tools for some BB’s. It was a real joy. I get the same feeling using hand-tools working on the trail. I have a Japanese Nata which is a like machete and great for the small stuff. I’m guessing yours would be heavier then the nata but lighter and quicker to use than an axe. I don’t tend to use it when I’m working in a group as people get nervous around a fast moving blade even though they’re far more likely to be injured by a chainsaw. A demonstration would be good. When I walk my trails I have a backpack with a some combination of bow saw, hand saw, small axe, small loppers and nata and it doesn’t weigh much. I can clear 90% of what I find. Others will take one or two tools but then head back for a chainsaw if they come across anything bigger than a couple of inches. Cheers.

Christopher Weeks wrote:I have one of these: https://www.grainger.com/product/53JH21 and I love it. I’m no lumberjack or arborist, and I’m sure there are normal things it can’t do, but I’ve been on my new 20 acre property in the woods for a year and it’s kept up so far. Even if I end up eventually buying a big Stihl or something for big jobs, I bet I use the electric a lot more.

And I’m never out all day cutting trees, but the only time I’ve run out of juice is when I didn’t charge the battery after a job and just expect it to be full three weeks later. I can certainly drop, limb, and buck a couple six-inch trees without considering my battery, but I’m not sure how much more.

ETA: we also have an electric mower that gets more use as a yard cart pulling a trailer, but I love my electric tools for their quiet and smell. I know that’s just putting the fuel-burning in someone else’s yard, but more and more of our grid is wind-powered and that won’t ever be true for a little gas engine.

Thanks Christopher - I’m building a list of brands and I’ll add the Dewalt. We work in NJ and NY which both have aggressive decarbonation plans. I’m sure switching to electric would also help with PR and raising funds. All good stuff - cheers.

[quote=Alex Moffitt] I would hate to rely on an electric Chainsaw,
They make tools to a price these days,
That is my experience and opinion! [/quote]

Thanks Alex - you make some valid points and I’ve heard some of them from the guys who like their petrol toys. I’ve bought cheap power-tools, both electric and petrol and regretted it later. Charging isn’t an issue, we have a work shed connected to the grid. We will need some battery management and one potential problem is in the winter as the shed isn’t heated, so someone would have to have the batteries off-site when it gets really cold. Cheers.

Michael Cox wrote:
Responding to some of the comments above; you get what you pay for in terms of quality, especially when it comes to batteries. Cheap battery tools are often advertised as having higher battery capacity than they actually deliver in practice. This is one of the scenarios where paying for a brand name quality is probably worth it.

Totally agree and the organisation tends to buy quality to last. Thanks Micheal.

I think these tools definitely deserve a place in the tool kit, and I find myself defaulting to picking up the smaller saw most of the time. A while back I read a review by a tree surgeon who ran a business with a team of workers. In their operation they used the big petrol saws for the falling work, but had small electric saw down by the chipper. It saw use on the ground to rapidly cut big branches down to size to run through the chipper. The instant start, low maintenance, low noise, low vibration aspects were attractive in that situation.

A professional businesses who need to make money and rely on getting a job done quickly and efficiently . . .  That’s a great example and just what I need. I’m sure there will be a place for a big petrol machine for us for a while and we have good existing kit. I now have some great examples to use in my pursuation to adopt electric and when the petrol chainsaws become old and heavy on maintenance they can be phased out.

Edward,

Great insights you found there.

I have not done trail work, but I have thought about it from time to time.  I am curious; how much cutting do you actually do while on the trail?  If it is just a bit of trimming here and there then a battery saw would be perfect.  If you want to fell a tree with a trunk of 12” or greater, then you might want a bigger battery pack, say 56 upwards to 80 volts.  And if you are cutting something like a fallen tree with a trunk something like 24”-36” or larger, even a large, 18” bar, 80 volt saw will be challenged by runtime.  An 80 volt saw is quite powerful and has a lot of torque, but if you are cutting through really thick, dense wood, the battery might well go very quickly.

Just for the record, I have used the DeWalt saw and it is a fine tool, but you probably want the 60 volt battery, even better with two.

It is true that gas saws are powerful and last long, but personally I like the idea of not carrying gas into the forest with me.

Good luck,

Eric

I've used the electrics at WL several times and they have found one that seems to work quite well and is affordable.  It's the Greenworks brand.  If you have one that's taken care of (sharp chain), I'd say that you could saw through a 14" diameter maple at least 10 times on a charge, possibly 20.  Alternately you could cut up a full pine tree (14" diameter) into firewood with that one charge.  I think.

Their Stihl saw sucked, another one they had wasn't that great but they now have 8 or so of the Greenworks.

We sawed the solarium bottom sill log in half (the hard way) with less than two batteries.  

The Makita 36v is my go to chain saw.  If I am cutting lots of fire wood, I will fire up the Stihl.

Here are some examples of what I have dealt with on my own and examples that require a chainsaw.

A couple of large tulip tress had come down completely blocking the trail. All I had with me was a $15 bowsaw and a small pruning saw.

Here’s what it looked like when I arrived.


An hour later I had done as much as I could. The remaining work was carried out with a chainsaw. The tree in foreground was about 18 inches across and once on the ground could be levered off to the side. The main tree at the top of the picture is probably close to 3 foot across which was too much for my bow saw and required an external company to clear because it was deemed to difficult, dangerous for our crew to clear even with a chainsaw.



This was also considered too dangerous to remove.



This is what I deal with normally with a bow saw. Normally this would be dealt with using a chainsaw.



This the same trail from the other direction a couple of hours later. It was hard but rewarding work using manual tools. However, it’s a good half hours hike from the tool shed, so even with a chainsaw it probably wouldn’t have been any quicker.

Edward,

I agree with what Mike had to say.

Looks like the trees you are cutting up should be handled nicely by an 80 volt saw.

I have had my eye on that Greenworks saw for a while.

Eric

I'm not into electric saws, except in very specific environments. Around the house/property they would be nice (the other being if you climb trees professionally) but then what do you do when you need trees cut up? Switch to a gas saw and therefor you have two saws. It takes a lot of pre-mix to equal out the environmental cost of building a whole new machine, mining the battery material (every 3-5 years) and then shipping all that across the world. Not to mention that they don't make Stihl or Husky's in "questionable working conditions".

The bar oil thing is silly, electric saws use bar oil, same as any saw.

Safety. The noise is a good thing, it lets others know to stay the hell back. It let's you know the saw is "hot" and to treat it that way. Loud pipes save lives, hahaha.

Also, they say that chaps don't work well against electric saw cuts, because they work by stalling the engine on a gas saw. Electrics supposedly can torque right through.

There is no way a chainsaw is more dangerous than an axe. I am sure a bow saw is safer though. Don't touch yourself with the sharp part of any of these and you will be ok. Although, a short bar (like an electric will have) is inherently unsafe compared to a full size saw.

All that being said, hand tools are where it's at for trail work. Then when you reach a fallen tree a chainsaw is a tool with a specific purpose.

The trail building group I was in had a strict rule. Before using any dangerous tool we'd yell "circle of death".

Here's a sweetgum tree that fell across a trail during Ida. This cut took about 5 minutes. Didn't measure the diameter but I'd guess about 10 or 12 inches. Then I dragged the top off the trail with a small ATV. Next day I used a truck to rotate the main trunk further out of the way. Chainsaws certainly have their purpose but I prefer non power tools when possible.

 mining the battery material (every 3-5 years)

Not really a fair claim I think, as the cells (typically lithium in 18650s) are widely recycled these days. As battery tools are becoming more and more widespread proper battery recycling is becoming more and more typical.

Edward, I am curious what regulations your group works under? Here in the western US, volunteers on public land aren't allowed to use chainsaws (or bucksaws) unless they are a certified sawyer. To become a certified sawyer, you have to take a two or three day class. This means that certified sawyers are rare and their time is valuable. So if something can be cut without a chainsaw or bucksaw, it is. And, since the sawyers are only cutting big wood, they use big saws.

To swap pictures .....the Makita does ok.   Now, if I had a regular diet of large trees, I would go with gas.

"Not really a fair claim I think, as the cells (typically lithium in 18650s) are widely recycled these days. As battery tools are becoming more and more widespread proper battery recycling is becoming more and more typical."

I did not know that. I did give the net a cursory check and I didn't see much aside from claims that companies are "ramping up" and "developing new recycling processes" for lithium. And really, are companies recycling them wholly, or just harvesting the easy/profitable parts? When a battery pack dies, if you don't change the cells yourself I have my doubts. It's just an economics issue, I feel. A gas powered saw is crazy efficient, cutting an amazing amount of wood fiber on a 20oz tank of gas. It just doesn't take much to equal out. Really I would like a pointer towards some good info on the subject, because like I said, I know nothing and I am interested.  

Not trying to be confrontational and God knows I hope you are right. I do put my sluggish 18650 batteries into the office battery recycling box!

I think you only need to look at the money involved in the commercial reuse/refurb market for the 18650s to see that the will is there to recycle the materials.

While power tools needs batteries in tip top condition, many other static uses are quite happy using large numbers of old cells. There is a whole industry in reusing old power tool cell in eg home or vehicle power banks. Old cells go for about £1.00 each. Recyclers chase after far less valuable materials all the time.

As for the actual process, the cells are basically a steel shell filled with layers of rolled lithium foil and the polymer sheets. I don't know the exact process used, but my chemical engineering experience tells me it should be pretty easy to design a process to extract the lithium and steel. The only complication is the residual charge in the cells. You may have seen videos of battery fires. Extracting lithium from old cells is definitely going to be cheaper and more cost effective than mining the raw materials.

I think one major reason that there hasn't been more widespread investment in recycling facilities for eg 18650s is that they are mostly still in use in some way - repurposed by the secondary market.

There is a time and place for a big, noisy, powerful, stinky gas chainsaw. I have one. I don't enjoy the noise or maintenance, but sometimes you need The Big Dog.

Electric chainsaw -- grab and go? I'm skeptical. It seems to me that the amount of maintenance is not much less for a gas chainsaw. It still needs sharpening and adjusting, still needs bar oil, etc.

My grab and go tool, for years, has been a battery sawzall. With the right blade it can make cuts in pretty big stuff, though it's not for bucking up firewood. That's the tool I would take for trail maintenance. Some of the big Milwaulkee and perhaps Makita units are as powerful as plug-in sawzalls. My 2c.

Edward Norton wrote:Here are some examples of what I have dealt with on my own and examples that require a chainsaw.

A couple of large tulip tress had come down completely blocking the trail. All I had with me was a $15 bowsaw and a small pruning saw.

Here’s what it looked like when I arrived.


An hour later I had done as much as I could. The remaining work was carried out with a chainsaw. The tree in foreground was about 18 inches across and once on the ground could be levered off to the side. The main tree at the top of the picture is probably close to 3 foot across which was too much for my bow saw and required an external company to clear because it was deemed to difficult, dangerous for our crew to clear even with a chainsaw.



This was also considered too dangerous to remove.



This is what I deal with normally with a bow saw. Normally this would be dealt with using a chainsaw.



This the same trail from the other direction a couple of hours later. It was hard but rewarding work using manual tools. However, it’s a good half hours hike from the tool shed, so even with a chainsaw it probably wouldn’t have been any quicker.

I liked it, Just liking your work was not enough! Really nice work awesome!

What happens the logs?

Also This may be my favour thread of all time!

I have some willow and alder that currenlty need a bit of trimming and will end up coppiced in rotation.
To minimise using a chainsaw I bought some whomping loppers and as a result of this clip I bought a Nordic Pocket Chainsaw.
But to switch to battery for all day cutting? Not flipping likely! IIRC something like 4% of UK power produced last came from wind. Using electricity generated miles away from mostly coal and gas with the losses that entails is not better than burning similar at point of use IMHO.

jason holdstock wrote:IIRC something like 4% of UK power produced last came from wind.

Wind power contributed 24.8% of UK electricity supplied in 2020, having surpassed coal in 2016 and nuclear in 2018. It is the largest source of renewable electricity in the UK. The UK Government has committed to a major expansion of offshore capacity by 2030.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=Wind%20power%20contributed%2024.8%25%20of,of%20offshore%20capacity%20by%202030.

There has been so much renewable infrastructure investment over the past few years that many people carry round out of date ideas about the current situation.

A podcast that I enjoy has done some excellent episodes on renewables, and I think the one relating to electric cars is particularly relevant here. They do a deep dive into the issues you are concerned about (eg using battery tech that ends up getting electricity from a dirty grid). They conclude, fairly convincingly, that in most countries electric genuinely is the better option.

https://gimletmedia.com/shows/howtosaveaplanet/94hblz9

The out of date article I read that wind turbines in 2020 generated about 4% of the power required was within the last week in a MSM UK newspaper. Obviously I can't now find the article.

The UK Govt produced flow chart linked to below says wind and hydro and solar generated the equivalent of 8.2 million tonnes of oil in 2020, out of the total generated of 246.5 from all sources, 3.3%.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1006380/Energy_flow_chart_2020.pdf

This link from Gridwatch.co.uk gives an idea of both the volatility of wind which everyone is aware of and needs entirely duplicating for when the wind doesn't blow, but also a graphic idea of it's input proportion to all power produced for or in the UK.

https://gridwatch.co.uk/

Renewables "producing" mid 20% in the UK is often alluded to and is often actually the maximum possibly generated as a percentage ot total generating capacity not what was actually produced. The Wikipedia article doesn't go out of it's way to define which, and neither do their references. Not helpful. Renewable totals quoted usually include nuclear and the output of Drax burning renewably grown wood pellets shipped from Canada. Better than UK coal overall?

The Gimletmedia link is a painful 42 minutes with a few people chatting, one of whom was perhaps part of (or just reporting on?) one study by one company on behalf of the EU (totally unbiased, no required outcome?) , not so much a deep dive!

Search for how to recycle lithium out of batteries usually takes you to stories of how it's really expensive (recycled raw material is five times the cost compared to raw newly mined in one article), and can require minus several hundred degrees to stop it exploding or 1500 degrees to melt them, or more commonly we can't do that yet but what we can do is use the knackered cells from cars in a less demanding roll.

I have an 18v jigsaw with a 5KW battery which will give a couple of hours on and off work. The same brand chainsaw uses two of them at a time so I can't see it being a worthwhile tool apart from occasional mild use. An EV for me would be daft until costs come down and range in a cold winter extends. The podcast suggesting buying a second hand one giving even less range is not very persuasive.

All O/T. As I said, I minimise my chainsaw use, use sweat as a power source to the largest extent I can, but I think a battery chainsaw is less use than a chocolate one :)

Hi Jason,

Have you used the pocket saw yourself? Looking for good Christmas presents for my son and if it works ok it would be right up his alley. I am cautious because I remember the other style "wire-saw" and that thing SUCKED.

so many good options in recharging type chainsaws are available.
sometimes when you want to teach others things its easiest to lead by example.

I use CANOLA OIL for bar and chain oil in my greenworks digipro 16" 40V chainsaw with 4 ah battery.  I have 2 batteries and 2 of these saws.  On one charge I can fell, limb and buck an 8 or 10 inch spruce tree with battery to spare.  Probably the largest I felled with it was about 12-14" and it was no problem at all.  I have bucked some larger stuff with it too, and the saw does great.  All summer, and lots of spring and fall I can charge the batteries with my solar array.  I think in your situation, Edward, battery chainsaws would be a great fit.   Sometimes I think about getting a more powerful gas saw, but then I think I would rather just get a more powerful battery saw.  Maintenance on the battery saws is nearly nonexistent.  The downside is they depend on internal electronics.  I actually had an issue with one greenworks saw after 2 years of hard use on my property and on my jobsites(I'm a builder).  I thought I knew which electronic part it was and sent an email to customer service and they told me the saw was still under warranty and just sent me a new one.  I do some topping on my property from time to time- roped up and climbing, and the battery saw is awesome for that high in a tree work due to being lightweight, easy to start, quiet, no toxic fumes, and built in safety features.

Edward, you owe it to yourself to try an electric chainsaw. The first one I tried over 40 years ago was an old Sears Craftsman. I was blown away at how much power this little 12" saw had. I scoffed when I first saw it and thought, "child's toy." I was WRONG. The new battery operated saws are fantastic. Go take one for a test drive. You'll love it!...and they are quiet! (which kinda messes with your head when you're used to the whine of a two-stroke)

I have an ECHO 58 volt saw. I have several of their tools, the blower and weed whip to get the most out of the expensive batteries I went all in on one brand. I don't like maintaining small engines every season and figured this would be more convenient. I was wrong. I have 3 bad batteries that I can't repair without learning a fair bit of electronics. These are not cheap batteries. The company has been unresponsive to my requests for replacement. Further the tools while very capable and convenient chew through a charged battery quickly. In the end I realized I prefer the power and reliability of gas engines, and as for maintaining them, I have learned more about that and it is doable I also realized that lithium ion batteries require care as well and sometimes the chargers they give you will not help with that.

I have dealt with both. When I first started using a chain saw I went to tractor suppy and bought one. I burned it out the first week. So I went to the stihl dealer thinking I needed better quality. Maybe because I am a woman or just don't have the oomph to start a chain saw I figured electric was the only way to go. The guy at the stihl dealership were great. Showed me their easy go saw. Has a spring in it so you just give it little pulls till it winds the spring up and it kicks over itself. I call it my lady's chain saw because even I can start it. I asked them about how long it would last and they said normal people should get 15 to 16 years, I would probably get 7 or 8. We cut our own fire wood and use about 10 cords a year.

I had to take my 10 year old saw in for a new carborator. I was in the middle of a project and couldn't really spare the saw for 2 days. I asked if they had a loaner. They gave me a battery powered one. It did decent but bogged down easily and the battery died before I was done. When I took it back they asked how I liked it. I said it's a nice toy but not for real work. Another gentleman standing there agreed

That's my 2 cents for what it's worth. I have found that pencil boxes are great to put your spare chains in. I keep 2 larger containers, one for sharp chains and one for dull. Just put the pencil box in the appropriate bigger box.