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Looking to be part of a community not a profit

J. Juniper

pioneer

Posts: 98

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posted 2 years ago

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I would like to be part of a community. I would like to buy the land that I build my eco house on. If I pay a monthly fee to live on the land it will be

no different than the society norm that I do not want to be a part of. I have been looking at land to purchase for some time, but community is not

about being a hermit. I see so many who have bought land and who are turning the community idea into an idea of making a profit. Please, take a

moment to step out of the program. Humans have been enslaved for long enough in this land/housing crises. People need a way out. I would like

to be united with a group of people who are interested in going into land together and being open to a program where...- if people want to have a

piece of land they can put roots into...- then they work for it and earn it. I believe the true good concept to community living is to give the power

and humility back to the people and work on our God given right of being able to plant a seed next to where we rest our head without "the man"

breathing greed down the back. Community to me is about everyone involved feeling their backbone being free. Anyone out there?

CAT

Robert Ray

gardener

Posts: 3155

Location: Cascades of Oregon

785

posted 2 years ago

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Every year I pay my tax bill I wonder if my property is really mine.

Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.

J. Juniper

pioneer

Posts: 98

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posted 2 years ago

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Yes Robert. Your response is real. In the United States if you do not pay your property tax your land can be seized. This and this alone tells me that the owners of the Federal Government are the landholders. Perhaps the best chance at forming independence from this "rental tax" would be to form a non-profit. The communities that are forming with member monthly fees are avoiding the taxes through third party.

CAT

Fred Frank V Bur

Posts: 240

posted 2 years ago

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J. Juniper, community without profit being the purpose for those in it is exactly what I see is needed in this world, with all who would then coming to subsistence living in a place where they are in community with others, growing things for what is needed for food and other things, as medicine herbs and materials, that would be the sustainable way that is needed. Individuals doing this alone cannot have it continue so that it would be sustainable, but communities of those doing this together can have it continue so that it is sustainable. It does need good land for it. And it can include the really healthy way to live, this way. I would like seeing more people talking of this, like this, I would want to be a part of something going that way.

J. Juniper

pioneer

Posts: 98

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posted 2 years ago

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Hi Fred. Yes, exactly. Whoever is interested in this please reach out.
We need good land for this project for growing and building.
Happy 2022

CAT

Aaron Fromenthal

Posts: 8

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posted 2 years ago

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Yo I've personally grown food truck gardens... mechanic all my equipment.
All on a shoe-string budget... I just read this comment about sustainable but not profiting from growing?
I'm only 38 but I grow you name it... arugula... dill... brassicas... mint... many over the years.

To be sustainable you have to be economically sustainable to even purchase yet maintain land.
10-4 over and out good help is hard to find... buy a tractor with your own money...build a greenhouse.
The hipster romantic vibe is strong on the west coast especially.

If anyone who is interested in learning water chemistry/compost tea/soil building/aquaculture
I offer free consulting from fruit trees to heavy metal chelation in water/soil problems.
My email is fromenthal@gmail.com
Aaron Fromenthal on Insta
<3

Geo Yakman

Posts: 7

Location: Southwest Virginia - USA

posted 2 years ago

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I have land in SW - VA with springs in the mountains. I am looking for like-minded land-mates.

Fred Frank V Bur

Posts: 240

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[quote=Aaron Fromenthal]Yo I've personally grown food truck gardens... mechanic all my equipment.
All on a shoe-string budget... I just read this comment about sustainable but not profiting from growing?
I'm only 38 but I grow you name it... arugula... dill... brassicas... mint... many over the years.

To be sustainable you have to be economically sustainable to even purchase yet maintain land.
10-4 over and out good help is hard to find... buy a tractor with your own money...build a greenhouse.
The hipster romantic vibe is strong on the west coast especially.

If anyone who is interested in learning water chemistry/compost tea/soil building/aquaculture
I offer free consulting from fruit trees to heavy metal chelation in water/soil problems.
My email is fromenthal@gmail.com
Aaron Fromenthal on Insta
<3
[/quote]

You are right insofar as there is need to be economically sustainable for any individual to purchase and maintain good land. And I am not economically set to just purchase land as an individual for doing such things. And yet that is not the sustainable way. It is not the popular thing to say, but it is really true and as such I have to say it, and will in some places if this would not be where it can be. All modern civilization is ruining this world, and to be sustainable involves not remaining connected with it. There is great destructiveness to the environments of the world with disappearing wildlife and a great rate of extinction of species, on land and in the seas, and resources being used as they diminish, and climate changing with all this, and civilization which is behind all this is coming to great crises, and it cannot go on like this in the world. Maybe for some this is not heard anywhere else, but really, civilization is not sustainable, and it will collapse at some time, while things get harder until then. Civilization just can't go on, and only alternatives much more sustainable than civilization can ever manage to be sustainable so that they do go on. And with many coming to this, populating the world further with human people must not happen, we do not need more when there is not sustainability with more people using what is in this world. Those of us here should live far more simply than any in civilization, where we use things right where we would be on good land for it away from any centers of civilization and growing needed things there. But real shortages are coming more generally now even throughout civilization, and it should not be thought desirable to still remain with that and the destructiveness with it. So there is not a choice I see to stay with it, I need to be where I will keep growing things, and would with others, and it is to be hoped that many more will do so. Yes, the state can come to collect their tax, so that money is still needed for it, unless there is something like a land grant in place, yet the state is not going to do anything at all that will save us from what is coming, and it will not be remaining. People still around will need to have things that would be sustainable in place, with things growing for that where they are.

Brian Briggs

Posts: 46

posted 2 years ago

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J.J.
For a community to survive over generations the land must be held by the community. What happens if a land owner in the group passes? Will the new owners agree to play nice with the group?
Regarding taxes, how about Insurance, cell phone, electricity and fuel costs? It is difficult to be 100% sustainable without additional sources of income to pay the overhead.
A community can reduce the burden by sharing the large capital equipment and maintaining smaller homes while sharing a common laundry, guest housing and retail space.
In my eyes, true community embraces a mix of talents and skills to enhance everyone's life.
Lastly, yes taxes are a burden. Yet I see the value of educating young people, maintaining roads and highways, and maintaining law enforcement and a military. Yes things could be better. But things could be a whole lot worse.
Lead by example. Embrace diversity and reward hard work.

Robert Ray

gardener

Posts: 3155

Location: Cascades of Oregon

785

posted 2 years ago

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My comment on taxes and having to pay them is part of the reality of being part of a community. Infrastructure is something I think we all forget or just assume it is there by magic. I like that there is oversight on proper disposal of sewage and other waste. I like that the persons upstream can't just take all the water. I like safe roads. Community isn't just my day to day on property personal activities.
The idea of transitional towns acknowledging the need to addressing local sufficiency is important. Many of us are spoiled with convenience.
My interpretaion of your "part of a community and not a profit" might not be what you are saying.
I know I can't do somethings and have to offer coin or trade for somethings. I need to generate an excess so in essensce a profit on my books to accomplish that.
I know I need to be accountable to the community for actions of myself and want others to be accountable for their actions, who is responsible for that and their time/compensation for insuring responsible accountability? Once your community gets larger the needs, requirements get larger.

Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.

Mari Henry

pollinator

Posts: 124

Location: Northern Midwest, USA

posted 2 years ago

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Brian Briggs wrote:J.J.
For a community to survive over generations the land must be held by the community. What happens if a land owner in the group passes? Will the new owners agree to play nice with the group?
Regarding taxes, how about Insurance, cell phone, electricity and fuel costs? It is difficult to be 100% sustainable without additional sources of income to pay the overhead.
A community can reduce the burden by sharing the large capital equipment and maintaining smaller homes while sharing a common laundry, guest housing and retail space.
In my eyes, true community embraces a mix of talents and skills to enhance everyone's life.
Lastly, yes taxes are a burden. Yet I see the value of educating young people, maintaining roads and highways, and maintaining law enforcement and a military. Yes things could be better. But things could be a whole lot worse.
Lead by example. Embrace diversity and reward hard work.

I agree with you. After a few close calls for us, I am sure glad we have local Police and Fire Departments where I live. Also, we are getting older and can't do the hard work anymore. We are actually looking to downsize and move to a town that would be easier for us to live in. Not sure a community would be willing to "support" old folk like us.

Brian Briggs

Posts: 46

posted 2 years ago

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Yes Robert I agree. An Intentional Community should work diligently to interweave with the surrounding communities. Participate in the local theatre, grassroots music culture, the Volunteer Fire Department..... Be good neighbors and help each other out.

Brian Briggs

Posts: 46

posted 2 years ago

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Mari Henry wrote:

Brian Briggs wrote:J.J.
For a community to survive over generations the land must be held by the community. What happens if a land owner in the group passes? Will the new owners agree to play nice with the group?

I agree with you. After a few close calls for us, I am sure glad we have local Police and Fire Departments where I live. Also, we are getting older and can't do the hard work anymore. We are actually looking to downsize and move to a town that would be easier for us to live in. Not sure a community would be willing to "support" old folk like us.

We have decided that Mentor Members will be welcome at our community. As well as families with young children. Do not discount being able to participate in a community.

Fred Frank V Bur

Posts: 240

posted 2 years ago

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Brian Briggs wrote:J.J.
For a community to survive over generations the land must be held by the community. What happens if a land owner in the group passes? Will the new owners agree to play nice with the group?
Regarding taxes, how about Insurance, cell phone, electricity and fuel costs? It is difficult to be 100% sustainable without additional sources of income to pay the overhead.
A community can reduce the burden by sharing the large capital equipment and maintaining smaller homes while sharing a common laundry, guest housing and retail space.
In my eyes, true community embraces a mix of talents and skills to enhance everyone's life.
Lastly, yes taxes are a burden. Yet I see the value of educating young people, maintaining roads and highways, and maintaining law enforcement and a military. Yes things could be better. But things could be a whole lot worse.
Lead by example. Embrace diversity and reward hard work.

These communities are really needed, and it is such a one among those which are sustainable that I would try to join with. It may be harder to work at growing the needed vegetation for food and things as I age and get older, but in a community with others doing this, it could continue while I would eat less as well when getting that old that I work less at growing these things. The community should continue on, and it would then be sustainability that continues. This way is the way for all, there should be this community for us, and it can be an example for others to have as their communities.

Ben Child

Posts: 91

Location: Ozarks

posted 2 years ago

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I’ve got something along the lines of what you describe , but a more nomadic approach, perhaps ..I shepherd over a irrevocable trust . A bit of land against the national forest. It’s not a profit thing , but it’s not buyable . I don’t charge anything, for the right people to stay here , in a temporary dwelling , of some type.
The main thing is maintaining peace and working together with as little “real world” drama , as possible

Fred Frank V Bur

Posts: 240

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Ben Child wrote:I’ve got something along the lines of what you describe , but a more nomadic approach, perhaps ..I shepherd over a irrevocable trust . A bit of land against the national forest. It’s not a profit thing , but it’s not buyable . I don’t charge anything, for the right people to stay here , in a temporary dwelling , of some type.
The main thing is maintaining peace and working together with as little “real world” drama , as possible

This might be the sort of thing we are looking for. I would be interested in where it is and the best way for further communication for it. I had thought of a sort of land trust being needed, while some or someone would need to invest in land then to go to that, with provision for people growing things there in living sustainably with the subsistence there just possible without the extra burden of having money to keep paying taxes. I am not even in favor of a state over us. But these things for a way to live are called for as a collapse I see ahead with crises civilization will come to will mean there will not even remain the state over us continually. But then we would need this way and urban civilization would be nowhere we would want to be. We need the sustainable ways that civilization cannot have in the world.

Mikael Whengate

Posts: 21

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Robert Ray wrote:Every year I pay my tax bill I wonder if my property is really mine.

Interesting one, Robert! Actually most living in the States have little or no idea of the founding principals of the United States of America. To respond to you question about "... wonder if my property is really mine.", well if it is held in a fee simple or warranty deed, let alone being mortgaged, the short answer is No. If your property is paid off, look into placing the title into a "patent title". Some like to refer to a patent title as an "Allodial title". To know more study about the congressional act of 1871 and study when the corporate entity that formed filed bankruptcy on or about the 1940's to know how all you own, is not the land but the structures, etc. and even that is iffy. We pay cash for own land and have a survey conducted to mark all boundaries, we do a thorough title search and then work the process to gain a Patent title" for the land/property and Stop paying property taxes in accordance with the de jure Government - United States of America -, not the de facto government which is the United States.

Do not take this as legal advice, just sharing information for you to look into and become aware. What you find will have ya thinking how so called land owners have been fooled. Fool me once, shame on me, but no fooling me twice!

Mikhael

Be in Health, smile often, resist Corruption, Confusion and Greed!

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Robert Ray

gardener

Posts: 3155

Location: Cascades of Oregon

785

posted 2 years ago

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This is kind of an edge "Cider Press" topic where discussions can get into taxes government and other high flash point conversations. Posting in the Cider Press requires a number of apples and pie. I know better and probably should never have mentioned Taxes. How would one go about creating that sense of community that J. Jumiper is looking for in an existing community?

Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.

Chris Bloom

Posts: 31

Location: Virginia Blue Ridge

posted 2 years ago

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Here is Community without rent. Many income streams and resourses available to those who can cooperate. Let’s finish a big building here and live in it. We all need money to log onto Permies. A Kitchen Hearth is what makes a home. Not a private toilet. Ready for the Country? Taxes are in Ag Use so low enough to live off a Market Garden. Who can dedicate themselves ? Sorry no minors. Yes we hunt varmits and raise meat n milk for ourselves and for market. Let us know your for real.

Robert Ray

gardener

Posts: 3155

Location: Cascades of Oregon

785

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It's hard to put hard definitions on some things, maintenance and improvements require coin. An excess, profit or coin, to maintain roads and infrastructure would have to come from the community. The surrounding non-community would have expectations of norms/standards that would'nt effect them adversely. Divorcing one from "the man" at least in the U.S. is just asking for unwanted scrutinty. I had an interesting conversation about a nomadic campground with membership/ownership. Similar to RV campgrounds where some of our local snowbirds go to in the winter. Interested members working a farm or allotment. Membership allowing for selection of people that fit. Year round or seasonal stays. Tiny houses on wheels. Air bnb for interested parties. Many possibilities.

Our inability to change everything should not stop us from changing what we can.

Phil Weyers

Posts: 3

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J. Juniper,

Where are you based/where are you searching for land?

Alas, poor Yorick, he knew this tiny ad:

Sepper Program: Theme Weeks

https://permies.com/wiki/249013/Sepper-Program-Theme-Weeks