Let's talk about narcissism

I recently read a fascinating article about narcissism, and then went down a rabbit hole of various aspects of it, as well as other toxic personality types, their victims, and related issues.

Initially, I thought that narcissism equals vanity, and it's something sitiuational. I didn't know that it's a personality trait. I highly recommend you dr Ramani Durvasula's youtube channel about it (she's mostly focused on victims of narcissistic abuse, but sometimes also speaks to the ones who think they might be narcissistic themselves - to say what they can do about it), as well as articles on Psychology Today, works by doctors Daniel Fox (who is more focused on borderline personality), Todd Grande (who's sense of humor I adore) - also on youtube, and others.

From what I gathered till now, there are two main types of narcissism: grandiose and vulnerable. The first, is what usually comes to mind when we think of it: someone who thinks highly about themselves, has an exaggerated opinion of themselves and is very expressive about it. The vulnerable, is more "undercover", and can be shortly described as someone who believes that the world isn't giving them justice, and doesn't recognize their awesomness.

The trick is, that they don't seem to be affected by that, but they leave a trail of hurt people behind. We tend not to associate these types of people with any "do gooders", but rather with businessmen, politicians, etc (who are often very narcissistic indeed).

However - and this type may be more common in permie-like communities - there are communal narcissists too. These are the ones who get their validation from doing the "good things", and it's not out of genuine empathy. I think that in today's world, it can often be a source of greenwashing, as people recognize that care for the environment is important. I've certainly seen it more than once, in individuals as well as in organizations. It seems that this can't be a bad one, but the problem is, that they do hurt people, and sometimes their actions are more for show than for actually doing a good thing (think of all those people who first set up a camera and then "rush" to help an animal...).

As we're trying to build healthy and resilient communities for the future, I think it's important to know - we can't always walk away from all the narcissists, but we can manage them.

There is also a "healthy amount of narcissism" in all of us (or almost), and it can be harmless if we're still empathic, authentic, and truly interested in seeing others.

Some afterthoughts more specifially related to intentional communities. The most obvious one is when there is a guru and followers. These followers can be victims of narcissistic abuse, but they can also become guru's "flying monkeys" - the enablers, who justify narcissist's abusive behaviour, sometimes are manipulated into doing the bad stuff themselves, and they gaslight the victims. "Flying monkeys" are named after characters from The Wizard of Oz. In the story, they were manipulated by Wicked Witch of the West, who made them obey her commands.

I think it can also happen in communities without a strong leader, such as a group of families. Sometimes narcissistic traits are very subtle, and narcissists themselves can be really charming (which is why we may fall for them more than once... even if we're educated and experienced). I think it would be unrealistic to pick just the "good people" to create communities, so it's more important to learn about these traits and not become enablers when we see that someone may be a victim of such abuse.
Of course I'm not a psychologist so all of the above is probably not completely accurate, but the sources I mentioned are quite good. It's fascinating how predictable these patterns are, once you learn about them.

One of the specialists said that in general, these are maladaptive strategies - and this I have seen in organizations which are supposed to help, for example, animals. I sometimes saw that they preferred to rescue pretty animals (like colourful spotted puppies instead of black aggressive dogs), or ones that will raise more compassion, to get support and praise. Virtue signalling is very common there too, but also contempt - not only for people who abuse animals, but also, for example, for those who are too poor to properly care about them.
I think some "do gooders" (communal narcissists) also sometimes show contempt for others, for example, those who aren't as "good" as they are.

I did a health class report in high school on narcissism when the assignment was to research a mental health disorder. I started to get very concerned as I researched that I was in fact a narcissist. My siblings would certainly have said so! However, during my class presentation, my expression of this ironic concern got a nice laugh,l. One of the other kids basically imitated Bob Sagat’s cocaine addict character in Half Baked castigating Dave Chapelle’s for thinking he has a weed problem, when he has never in fact sucked d!@k for weed. He was in fact the poster child for grandiose narcissism, but also a very funny guy in the ways only a narcissist can be. Anyways, the whole thing, along with another students presentation on munchhausens/hypochondria made me wonder if it’s possible to have an inaccurate concern that I am a hypochondriac, or for a narcissist to be sincerely concerned about being a narcissist.

From what dr Ramani says, narcissists are generally not capable of self-reflection. However, she sometimes does address people who watch her channel and think they're might be narcissists. If they're willing to do the work - which is what anyone can do to be just better towards others - then that's great. It's mostly about practicing mindfulness, thinking if your words might hurt people, etc. Another possibility (according to her) might be, that you're gaslighting yourself, perhaps because of being abused by a real narcissist (thoughts like "maybe I'm the bad person").
Sometimes I feel like I'm late to the party as many people already know about things like grey rocking, flying monkeys, gaslighting etc. But also many people didn't realize that.
The grandiose narcissist is obviously easiest to spot, but after reading all this, I also noticed a malignant, a vulnerable, a communal narcissist... and a whole bunch of enablers.

A much more awesome thing is, that I also find the real good people among all that - and my environment is really a narcissistic hotspot ;) but I already see at least two people who aren't like that - they don't enjoy conflict, they are empathic, caring, attentive, while also being quite charming. I'm just trying to save my resources for them, and not let the narcissists distract me too much with their drama.

Flora, this is a great point to bring up, especially as it relates to intentional community. Though I think it's good for everyone to know how to recognize narcissism and protect themselves from being hurt by it. I have definitely encountered my fair share of narcissists trying to live in community. Mostly people who had their vision of what the community should be and weren't willing to consider the needs and experience of the actual people in the community. They essentially treated others like a means to their ends, nothing more. And they were plenty happy to turn on anyone if it suited their ends. Alas, in those cases, there was really no way to work with them and walking away was the only healthy option.

Flora Eerschay wrote:As we're trying to build healthy and resilient communities for the future, I think it's important to know - we can't always walk away from all the narcissists, but we can manage them.

I believe I understand what you meant here, but I think it's an important distinction that we can only manage our own responses to them. Trying to manage other people rarely goes well, in my experience. I imagine it's totally possible to work with some narcissists. Probably starting by setting some really solid boundaries. It can really take a lot of emotional energy though and I feel it's crucial to know when it's too much and be willing to walk away and/or seek support.

Since we're talking about the context of intentional community, I do wonder if there's a way for a community to work together to best handle a narcissist in a group, that way the emotional burden on individuals wouldn't feel so great and potential for harm could be reduced? Maybe it would just look like making sure everyone knows how to recognize the behavior and is on the same page about the best way to handle it when they see it. And that they have support from others so they're less susceptible to gaslighting and thinking it's all in their head. I imagine that could be tricky to do without risk of it feeling like others were ganging up on the narcissist or engaging in gossip, etc. It would obviously be best if the narcissist was conscious of their behavior and wanted to work with others to change themselves, but that's probably rare. It seems to me like the potential for everyone to grow, including the narcissist, would be tremendous if it could be figured out.

Heather, good points. In most cases we can only do the work on our end, as narcissists are not willing to change (they rarely even see a problem). The best option is to walk away, but it's not always possible. Second best is really solid boundaries, radical acceptance (that this is who they are and it's never going to change), and self care (including seeking healthier company and emotional support).

I think, that a group should work on this before anything happens; without pointing at anyone in particular (it is a bad idea to call out a narcissist; it can activate their rage). When I work with students and there is this type of person around, they're usually the messiest, loudest, take up a lot of space, while sometimes also being funny and creating a cheerful vibe, but along with a lot of chaos. Or they can become critical and angry and interrupt in that way. It's really hard to work around them sometimes, because they do want to be the center of attention. Without such individual, a group usually works faster and in harmony, and everyone is given a voice - which is the ultimate goal, that everyone should be able to be the best version of themselves.