Advice From Women (request)

Hello Ladies,

   If you would be so kind as to enrich our understanding and engage in a creative adventure......

   Let's say that a tribe of mostly young men had formed intentionally to work together, becoming stewards of lands, planting food forests, and building Sanctuaries & cultural and educational event spaces, OFF-GRID.

    It takes time, etc to develope the modern comforts and luxury, especially when done with such intention and principles.


*)    What kind of events, activities, features, or details would feel especially magnetic or attractive to you, especially as a woman?

    A normal event usually includes a bonfire, music playing, food, etc.  Taking place at an offgrid food forest/sanctuary/homestead.

   
   Some current features are

-a growing firepit/dance circle
-a sacred geometry orchard/food forest
-an ever growing display of flowers incorporated into the designs
-building abor/entranceways covered in fruit and flowers throughout the design

*) When an event is advertised, whether a workshop, plant medicine, etc. What, if any details might jump out at you or make you want to go when you might otherwise not?

*)Romantic interests aside, it would be a potent balance if there was more feminine leadership and influence to compliment our own, women holding their own retreats and


The lands are held in trust, shared between core members, and legacies of community stewardship have been written, and will be carried on and occasionally improved on.

As we expand, there will be more opportunities for people to have shared ownership and equity.

(Oldest in our group is 33).

https://m.facebook.com/478668519193712/
Get a glimpse into one of the growing Sanctuaries here.


   

Nice toilets, with proper sanitary disposal (or alternative) facilities.  Personally I'm fine with a compost toilet, but having somewhere to wash hands properly and deal with "things" takes a load off my mind.

And facilities for children/babies.  Somewhere to change them, and places they can't escape from and fall in a pond.

Maybe inviting a female to your place and getting her input once she sees around.
I guess it's the small things.
Minimalist is great but as mentioned before clean facilities, as in toilet and bathing areas.
Also a well thought out communal kitchen area. Food preparation is key and a well thought out area and facilities to cook your local produce and juice would be key for me.

I agree with Hester about nice toilets / sanitary devices, really regardless of gender but especially important if you're inviting visitors who might potentailly stay for a little longer, I guess?
And a place for some privacy, which you also need anyway if you want to have visitors (as just friends or more like tourists).

I imagine that you have something like two groups: the current residents, and potential visitors. Each group has their own needs, some things can be done together but also everyone will need their own spaces. Why are you asking women specifically? Is it because you want to find women who'd eventually like to live there, or do you just want them to visit but for some reason they don't? Are you only asking single women, or also groups, families?
Obviously, a single woman would be more vulnerable in an off grid homestead populated only by men. In such case, you'd first want her to feel safe - so a nice private space and cleanliness is a must. Everything else is all about communication, respect and honesty.

As for me: if you have goats, and chickens, and maybe rabbits, and all the other critters, I'm in! ;) Just joking but I do love permies who have all kinds of animals. Perhaps you should discuss your food choices too (who's cool about eating the critters and who's not, ha). Indoors, I love comfy sofas and sunny interiors, and great food :)

Hey Everyone,

    Thanks. We are aware that the more luxurious and comfortable it becomes will be more comfortable for EVERYONE.

    My question was more so, if you see an event posted somewhere like on permies or Facebook, or a flyer at a farmers market,  usually a workshop or class or some kind, with food music, and bonfire.

   What language, features, etc might catch your eye and make you want to go and maybe invite your girlfriends?

   Being a group of guys, we seem to be more easily able to get lots of guys to come, because if we as our friends to come lend a hand on a project or come to a workshop, we simply know more guys and guys are maybe more into offgrid life.

   Since we are not a group of women able to invite all their girlfriends, we would like to appeal to more women, and get more women involved.

(It is not advertised that we are all guys here, so that is not a factor) meaning the event will say "let's plant trees" and have a description about planting trees, food, etc.

Engaging and attracting more women would be nice.


We are pretty much all nomadic to some degree, so the goal isn't ever to get people to stay here long term. The goal is to bolster the organization and movement with more gender balance. And get more women involved in stewardship and development here.

That can look like living here, but doesn't have to.

We are 15 minutes to Walmart, library, and 3 grocery stores, but only 10 minutes from national forest and the end of civilization.  We are also only  1 hour from Olympia, Tacoma, and Seattle, so there are large populations nearby to attract people from and major economic opportunities.

We have no shortage of skills, man power, etc. Just a shortage of women who seem to share our interests and dedication.


Not looking for a magic solution, just feedback, tips, and insight into the female mind and what might attract you or inspire you to join something like this.

Thanks again

*) I the op denote specific question

I'm not in your age range, but I have a rich history of making mistakes when it comes to men :) Fortunately I found my husband after those mistakes.

If I were a younger woman, the first thing I would look for in your community is a clear idea of roles and responsibilities. All of the features you list are lovely but it's the day to day expectations that make or break a relationship. Do you expect the women to cook and clean? Or can she work alongside the men while a man cooks and cleans? Who makes the decisions on the tasks to be done and the person assigned to them? Can the woman say no to an assigned task and choose her own? You don't really describe how your system works. So far I've seen features that are meant to be enticing.

Safety of the woman and her right to choose to have a relationship or not must be very clear. For me, a situation with lots of men who haven't had women around and in a remote location doesn't feel exactly safe, even with the best of intentions.

Have you had women in your community before? If so, how did it turn out? Those situations will help a lot in diagnosing the areas that need to be addressed.

I second the concerns about safety. I've no desire to die or be raped so it would be a hard pass for me.

Sanitation is also a big concern for women. Privacy in an area full of men, with like, locks, would be good.

Let's face it, a utopia of men would draw the ladies in if they were assured respect and safety.

Once your facilities have been improved as suggested above, particularly with tidy toilets, host a presentation by an older woman or group on some skill(s) of interest to the women you're hoping to attract. Some possibilities include basket-weaving, storytelling, plant identification, soap-making, natural dyeing, etc. You may have to put out considerable time and resources to plan such an event, but having someone respectable and preferably female at the center of your event would go a long way to putting your female guests at ease among strangers, and the social aspect will likely be less awkward with a task at hand like learning a new skill. Close the event with a meal and an invitation to come back later for another activity in the near future (upcoming harvest followed by pizza, making a new garden path followed by some other easy refreshment, etc.) and you might have a good chance at expanding your tribe.

Note: having older mentor figures attached to your tribe of both sexes makes you much more stable and respectable, so see if you can cultivate a permanent connection to the teacher you invite!

Guests will feel much safer also if they can be assured of their ability to leave immediately or call for backup if things don't go well. If you have good road access, wifi, telephones, and/or good cell-phone service, make that clear in your advertisement! If there is a park ranger station nearby, make a note of it in the directions you give to your events. Have someone CPR/emergency medical trained on site and advertised as such.

We have 6 neighboring families within 1000ft of us, so it's  not exactly the kind of place that is so remote that it is terrifying.

We do definitely get women showing up to our events and visiting. The idea is to appeal to women MORE.

At an average event, we might have 10 guys show up and 4 women. A shift would be a balance, OR more women than men.


We have a few older women mentors, they just haven't ever expressed an interest in creating a women's event or teaching a class. It might be worth asking and seeing if they might!

Also, we are definitely looking for such women, and have set the intention of building some such connections this year.

Thank you for that feedback (And in truth, you guys hit the nail on the head with the sanitization point.) That should probably become the next immediate priority for this agenda.

The community kitchen is coming soon. We are still a couple months out. It will probably cost around 20k, bit we are clearing a road with an excavator, laying down gravel, having a 40x60 metal carport installed. (like boats and r.v.s park under), then building cob oven, rainwater catchment, heating, etc.
So we're working on it.....


"Guests will feel much safer also if they can be assured of their ability to leave immediately or call for backup if things don't go well. If you have good road access, wifi, telephones, and/or good cell-phone service, make that clear in your advertisement!"

So when you see a flier, with a picture of a tree, in a public place, like a farmers market, that says on a certain date there will be a fruit tree planting party at a local farm, you are invited to join, bring a potluck, musical instrument, or whatever you want to contribute.

Your first thoughts are, am I allowed to leave freely? Am I going to be raped or murdered? Is there good cell phone reception and road access?

Ok.... we will keep that in mind when creating our fliers and advertisements..

Some women who show up like a guy who doesn't reciprocate, and rather than stay and be part of the community, might leave feeling rejected?

And absolutely, none of us are perfect and have room to improve in various ways.


If we have other suggestions to appeal more to women and get them excited about permaculture and coming to local events and inviting their girlfriends, so they feel even safer, with 3 of their beasties. LOL we would love to hear it!


As always, thanks for the help.

Personally, I feel an extreme optimism and a sense of certainty that this year has major changes in store. :)

Personally I think that as much or more so than the remoteness scaring women, they have to justify driving  45min+ one way and it has to seem like it's  going to be worth the 1.5-2 hour drive. To go to some sort of a community, workshop, party on a farm.

I agree that engaging with the women who do show up and making them as comfortable as possible with comfortable  bathrooms an sanitization, among other things will go a long way.

Since you are close to an urban area, getting to know some of the local business people might go a long way to help what you are asking.

The kind of events that would attract me would be ones with lots of music, lots of good food and some sort of activities.

I like to sit around a bonfire or a campfire to talk though, I would not drive 15 minutes to do that.  I can do that at home.

If I want to listen to music I can do that at home.

What I can't get at home is my favorite band or singer.

What I can't get at home is cooking classes with a chef.

I might be attracted to a workshop to learn to quilt.

What are some things that women like to do or want to learn?

Yes, some women want to learn carpentry.

Some women want to learn gardening.

Do women want to drive somewhere to learn those things?

Some events that I was part of were on a river, do you have one?

My best suggestion would be to start with events during the day rather than at night.  The events could end with a BBQ, good music, and a bonfire.

Derek Dendro wrote:
Your first thoughts are, am I allowed to leave freely? Am I going to be raped or murdered? Is there good cell phone reception and road access?

You seem a little incredulous that women actually think like that.  I'm a man, but I used to teach self defense courses to women.  I had a woman walk up to me before class and say "you know, men have no idea what it is like walking around knowing that roughly half the population can kill you with their bare hands".  I worked very hard to be able to understand that.  It's a foreign concept to me.  I walk where I like, when I like, and rarely ever have to worry about anything.  Many women are, completely understandably, very cautious about going to a place they aren't familiar with, and where they don't know the people.  Very, very many women have learned truly horrible lessons by doing something as simple as going jogging or walking to their car alone.  Even if they bring a friend, now you have two women, alone at night in a strange place, with a group of men.  Anyone that has ever watched a horror movie, or, sadly, the news, is probably going to think that is a very bad idea.   I don't really know the answer, just saying I understand how you are having an uphill battle.  I think you will have to have female friends help you coordinate day time events to get women to attend. Is it possible you could give some type of classes or have gatherings in a public, well populated place, like a park, until people get to know your group?

I can't be of great help to you here because I'm in the wrong continent for visiting! However I'll admit to being female so I'll put in my 2 pence:

I personally am still interested in learning experiences: currently a Rocket Mass Heater Workshop would be right up my street just now. A couple years ago I would have said a coppicing workshop but I've sort of gone ahead and am learning by doing now (the trees are big enough to need cutting and seem to be surviving my ministrations so far,) I'd really need to feel what I would get out of it personally would be worth whatever effort it took to get there. Time is pretty short for me, so I suspect the first Rocket heater I build will be my own.

I had a lovely camping holiday a few years ago visiting Forest Garden, other Permaculture sites and gardens in SW UK - helping out a bit in exchange for learning about what they had done and why. I took some spare seeds down as presents, and got some different exciting ones to take back with me. I hadn't met any of the hosts previously, and I did go with a friend. We went down by train and hired an electric car - my friend has mobility limits, so that gave us flexibility and another great experience.

If I was staying overnight somewhere new I guess I would need to know what the arrangements were: what I was expected to bring and what would be provided. (tent, cooking equipment, food, TP...). Once you've been somewhere once it all gets easier.

Safety and sanitation first. You've gotten an earful of both already, so I'm just going to add a couple points. If you're hoping to include families, a place to change a poopy diaper and put related trash is essential. Keep in mind most of humanity is shorter and has less upper body strength than a pack of young men. If someone gets stuck in the shitter by a heavy or badly fitting door, she won't have fond memories of your place.

If I see your flier but don't know anyone who's met or gone there? Yeah I will have safety and facility questions. But you have a website... use it! Imagine the first 10 pics are how you're showing your new crush and their granny what your place is like before they visit the first time. Include pics of the toilet area and your parking space on your website.

Pictures of happy people will reassure your future guests that you aren't a bunch of ogres.

Pictures of previous events are good, links with groups who use your space are good. Show me enough that when my friends start talking serial killer shacks and human trafficking drop-off points I can laugh it off.

Each outside teacher or musician has their own audience, a few of those might become regulars at your events. Consider where an out of town guest might stay, have something set up or a list of local options.

If you know someone into yoga, poi, belly-dance, tai chi, plein-air painting or other group activities that can be a ton of fun outdoors without specialized equipment, invite them to try your space out. Regular recurring group meets are a core part of most communities.

Go to local events related to your interests, especially recurring ones. Go to local workshops. It'll let interested people meet you.

Trace Oswald wrote:

Derek Dendro wrote:
Your first thoughts are, am I allowed to leave freely? Am I going to be raped or murdered? Is there good cell phone reception and road access?

You seem a little incredulous that women actually think like that.

What Trace said. Yes, these are exactly my first thoughts. I did have some bad experience in the past, and maybe not all women had, but sadly there are way too many. Of course, men sometimes experience abuse too.
Just another reason to make your place feel safe.
As for the types of events; I just follow my interests, and they're not really gender-specific... at least I think so. Gardening, horses, art, music, cooking, etc.
You could also make meetings with an interesting person - author, artist, etc., and if that person was a woman, it could potentially attract more women too.

K Kaba wrote:
If you know someone into yoga, poi, belly-dance, tai chi, plein-air painting or other group activities that can be a ton of fun outdoors without specialized equipment, invite them to try your space out. Regular recurring group meets are a core part of most communities.

This is an excellent idea.  Maybe you can offer to let a group of women have some type of gathering that they would like to put on at your place.  You could offer them space to do it for free, and most women, I believe, would feel safer if there were 10 or 12 of them in a group together.

Flora Eerschay wrote:
You could also make meetings with an interesting person - author, artist, etc., and if that person was a woman, it could potentially attract more women too.

Another excellent idea.

Lots of great suggestions here!

I'd personally also like to know the drug, tobacco and alcohol use policies, not just what's allowed and what isn't, but how prevalent usage is if these are allowed.

I'd also want signs that this wasn't an invite to a cult commune / activity. Other people might be looking for signs that it was...

Basically, cues that help people self select in or out as to whether you are potentially their people.

Derek Dendro wrote:We are 15 minutes to Walmart, library, and 3 grocery stores, but only 10 minutes from national forest and the end of civilization.  We are also only  1 hour from Olympia, Tacoma, and Seattle, so there are large populations nearby to attract people from and major economic opportunities.

We have no shortage of skills, man power, etc. Just a shortage of women who seem to share our interests and dedication.

Derek said, "Personally I think that as much or more so than the remoteness scaring women, they have to justify driving  45min+ one way and it has to seem like it's  going to be worth the 1.5-2 hour drive. To go to some sort of a community, workshop, party on a farm

Derek said, "We do definitely get women showing up to our events and visiting. The idea is to appeal to women MORE.

So this is starting to confuse me.

Is this place 15 minutes or 1.5-2 hour drive?

If women are showing up then what is the problem that there is a shortage of women?

It seems if this is a fun place to go and there are women showing up have you encouraged them to bring their friends?

I would suggest starting with the local crowd to get events started.

Have you thought about offering free camping?  Or maybe cheap camping just to pay for the ads?

Derek Dendro wrote:  



So when you see a flier, with a picture of a tree, in a public place, like a farmers market, that says on a certain date there will be a fruit tree planting party at a local farm, you are invited to join, bring a potluck, musical instrument, or whatever you want to contribute.

Your first thoughts are, am I allowed to leave freely? Am I going to be raped or murdered? Is there good cell phone reception and road access?

Ok.... we will keep that in mind when creating our fliers and advertisements..

Don't show a picture of a tree. Or at least, not just a tree. Show a picture of a woman, old enough to have wrinkles but not so old she looks like she's crumbling, and have her smiling next to a flowering fruit tree. Or leaning on a spade beside a freshly-planted tree.

Women, generally speaking, tend to be drawn to other women. And a smiling matriarchal figure appeals to that primitive, emotional part of the brain, and makes people of all ages and genders feel safe.

(It would be best if the woman in the photo is also one of the instructors/mentors at the event.)

I suspect that people who attend 3 hour workshops and like them, would be more likely to then attend 2 day workshops.  Those folks may eventually want to live in your community once they've had a chance to see it a few times under the banner of a workshop or event.  So having good short events would feed longer overnight ones.

Derek Dendro wrote:
Your first thoughts are, am I allowed to leave freely? Am I going to be raped or murdered? Is there good cell phone reception and road access?

I mean yeah. It's a sad statement for the safety of women in general that we are REQUIRED to think things like that. That would get us put into the cider press though. So that's all I shalt say. Oh except maybe I'm not allowed to go welcome new neighbors to the area anymore after I brought cookies to one and was molested thus forcing me to file a report with the Sheriff. SO yeah, it's tough being female.

It's a bit steriotypical but hold events that are more likely to attract women, so hold a raw fiber to finished product workshop, or maybe something on herbalism I used to give talks on poisonous plants that seemed to attract a mixed crowd. Maybe a workshop on indigenous cooking methods, avoid billing it as off grid or campfire cooking but play up the historical interest.

I don't personally have any qualms about attending official looking events but a hastily scrawled or badly computer drawn flyer would have me running for the hills.

Have you thought about offering your gathering spaces for other groups to hold events? Or offering group tours? Seems like if you connected with an existing club or group of gardeners/ foragers/nature enthusiasts this might bring a mix of people (including women) to your space.

If you are located in a remote area such that visitors might have to stay overnight,  a clean, private guest lodging would make it more attractive to visitors.

As far as making it look to visiting women like a place they might like to live,  I do echo others about keeping the common areas tidy. I say this not because I think women are naturally any tidier than men.  It is more that you do NOT want to give off the vibe that you are looking for a "Snow White" to clean up and keep house for you all.

Mk Neal wrote:Have you thought about offering your gathering spaces for other groups to hold events? Or offering group tours? Seems like if you connected with an existing club or group of gardeners/ foragers/nature enthusiasts this might bring a mix of people (including women) to your space.

If you are located in a remote area such that visitors might have to stay overnight,  a clean, private guest lodging would make it more attractive to visitors.

This!!

Great idea!  Existing clubs and groups from the local area!  Maybe inviting some Master Gardener to visit!

Ellendra said, "Don't show a picture of a tree. Or at least, not just a tree. Show a picture of a woman, old enough to have wrinkles but not so old she looks like she's crumbling, and have her smiling next to a flowering fruit tree. Or leaning on a spade beside a freshly-planted tree.

And this!  I really like the idea of the elderly lady, though I would have her with her grandkids.  And lots of flowers!

Mk Neal wrote:Have you thought about offering your gathering spaces for other groups to hold events? Or offering group tours? Seems like if you connected with an existing club or group of gardeners/ foragers/nature enthusiasts this might bring a mix of people (including women) to your space.

Carrying on from this idea. Why not look up people who hold weekend retreats and invite them to use your space.
That way they advertise and they bring people to your space. Things like weekend yoga retreats, spiritual retreats or team building events. I used to love team building where we went on say an experience to learn archery or pottery or whatever. This way the group is already known to each other and safety less of a concern.
This then gets your space advertised and people see what you are trying to achieve and the interest stems from there.
I would defo plant up a herb garden too.

Good luck

It's a sad statement for the safety of women in general that we are REQUIRED to think things like that

Unfortunately, women have been forced by circumstances to question whether an innocent-looking offer of a good time contains an ulterior motive. Upon seeing a friendly-looking "lets plant trees" flyer at the market, and noticing that it inexplicably seems to be tweaked to appeal to women, a careful woman asks herself "is the true motive a bunch of guys wanting to entice girls to come on out (and hopefully bring a few girlfriends along)?

Another advice, which may sound weird, and maybe it's just me, but if by any chance there are any queer men among you - women generally find those safer ;) (or it's just me). So, if any of you are gay, maybe no need to "advertise" that especially ;) but just bear in mind that it may feel safer. In fact, currently all my closer male friends are gay (maybe not all of them 100%) and I don't mind if it stays that way.
Then there is another crowd that will unduly sexualize such society (just like they do with any kind of single women), which brings yet another kind of trouble.

Wow, a lot of responses and a sort of visible tapestry of psyche is being woven.



Since we participate in hippy communities throughout Olympia, Tacoma, and Seattle, like ecstatic dance/yoga communities, etc

What we may do is reach out to several of the women in our big city communities, and persuade them to design our events for us!


Maybe create a part time/work opportunity for a woman or couple women to come out and boss us around and help us get the space more fine tuned.

Thank you all again for your insight. Much of it will take time to incorporate, build, organize, and manifest. So the above mentioned solution is not in any way ignoring or unacknowledged all of your advice.

It is a way to promptly, immediately apply it in a way we can understand and easily flow with in the moment, a stepping stone, if you will.


We look forward to the great advice that we know is coming, and this is certainly useful to more than just is I am sure.

This exercise of intention, for us, is opening us up to a lot of insights, as we turn some of attention and energy towards this.


I believe in the good things coming  

For the SAFETY CROWD

I think some context lacking is that some of us are known and have reputations and years spent in the community, while we are not perfect by any means, any kind of shady situation of any kind, even an isolated incident would be irredeemable for our trust and reputations in the communites, which include our communities,

Also most of US live somewhere in this greater area (1 hour radius of the site, and do not all live on site. It is a place we are building as we also work together in business to support ourselves) this is a sanctuary we are building, not a place where we all live.

All of that on top of our personal ethics and principles. And the demographic of our neighborhood make these situations quite ridiculous. (Three police officers with families live within less than a block of us.) Of the 7 properties within 200ft of us, 3 of them have families with kids. If a person were to yell across the property to another person, 7 neighbors could potentially hear at any given time if they are outdoors.


Personally, I think the cries of suspicion and danger narratives, have been exhausted and that horse isn't showing signs of life (beaten to death) but the people who need to express that always will.
I hope it creates a safer world for women.
I want to be supportive of women through their process of healing their tramas.

I believe that everyone in our group shares a strong desire to heal what can be healed and participate in a shift towards a beautiful harmony with women, and while none of us are perfect, it is a fundamental part of who we are to want happy, nurturing, nourishing relationships with women and each other.

Noone who doesn't share that core sentiment would be welcome in our communities.

Derek Dendro wrote:Personally, I think the cries of suspicion and danger narratives, have been exhausted and that horse isn't showing signs of life (beaten to death) but the people who need to express that always will

That statement alone tells me you do not appreciate the gravity of the situation or many womens' concerns. Essentially it's saying to me "I hear ya, now shut up about it already. We're nice guys." A stranger doesn't know you.

You asked for feedback on your original post that provided very little information except enticements for women. Based on that you received replies. Please take them seriously. Or not, but don't be surprised when people are honest with you about how they feel. Quite a few people gave you their honest, considered feedback because they would like to help.

Just to clarify Derek, I don't think any of the replies are accusing you or the group of guys (seems your earlier replies indicated it's most/all guys currently managing the sanctuary) of being rapists or molesters. Instead it's coming from the perspective of a woman coming across say a flier promoting an event you are putting on, and she doesn't have any prior knowledge of the group. It's a sad fact that a significant percentage of women have been assaulted in their life, so it is a primary concern and if it's addressed it will help your cause.

Having say a website linked on the flyer, where that site shows pictures of everything you currently have available like the toilets, outdoor kitchen, parking, camping/sleeping/nearby rental options, previous events with a small description of the who/what/when of it and 2-3 pictures of happy participants. The site could also have clear directions from the major roads/highways, and the names of nearby stores or local resources. I would include an explanation or 'mission statement' of what the sanctuary hopes to achieve and what the current hopes are for say 10 years from now. You mention nobody lives there but lives nearby, is there a plan for this to become a community where some people live? Or just a community food forest/event site?

The following is just a suggestion based on your mentioning you'll need $20k for an outdoor kitchen and parking:
FYI based on what we did in October at the RMH Jamboree at Wheaton Labs, you can build an outdoor kitchen and storage space for pretty cheap. We built an outdoor kitchen in the lean-to attached to the red cabin, and instead of a sleeping space you could build or buy a kit for a storage shed, and have the outdoor kitchen attached with a simple shed roof on the side. If you can get an excavator or a tractor with a front loader or a 'leveling bar' doodad, you can scrape a space clear or topsoil and have a couple loads of gravel dumped in to make a parking area nearby. Toss in a couple of composting toilet stalls nearby and this gives you a bit of an "event hub" so when people show up they know where to park, know where to pee/poo right away, and adds some designated structure to the site.

Derek Dendro wrote:

I want to be supportive of women through their process of healing their tramas.

I believe that everyone in our group shares a strong desire to heal what can be healed and participate in a shift towards a beautiful harmony with women, and while none of us are perfect, it is a fundamental part of who we are to want happy, nurturing, nourishing relationships with women and each other.

It seems to me that you see women as a somehow different species and the entire post I took those quotes from is rather condescending. If that is the way the group comes across in real life I can see why you have an issue retaining females around you.

Remember the people you are trying to attract do NOT know you, they do NOT know your reputation they certainly don't know who lives near your place. So none of that counts for you at all. (neither does any of it count against you.

Derek Dendro wrote:
All of that on top of our personal ethics and principles. And the demographic of our neighborhood make these situations quite ridiculous. (Three police officers with families live within less than a block of us.) Of the 7 properties within 200ft of us, 3 of them have families with kids. If a person were to yell across the property to another person, 7 neighbors could potentially hear at any given time if they are outdoors.


Personally, I think the cries of suspicion and danger narratives, have been exhausted and that horse isn't showing signs of life (beaten to death) but the people who need to express that always will.
I hope it creates a safer world for women.
I want to be supportive of women through their process of healing their tramas.

I think a lot of people are going to be less willing to try to help you after that post.

I think that there is a lot of emotionally charged energy around the topic

I think that I and a lot of men are as frustrated and displeased with the issue as women, and frustrated by what seems like a problem that we don't know how to effectively tackle.

It sounds like you got the main basics of security, reputation among the locals, and infrastructure/utilities covered. So, we're way past Peter Pan and a bit beyond Watership Down. 😉You have mentors, and have had women come out for events, just not in numbers you'd like; the question is one of demographic shift, not "how to get a woman to come over." You've had an earful about our sex's risk-aversion tendencies. and will undoubtedly take that into account. Honestly, this is probably where general advice stops and individual skill and luck come in. You've got to actually go out and meet people one-on-one. At this point I might be interested if your group was local and of my religion, but you're going to have to meet the right people personally. Find out where the local women are, and consider encouraging other members of your tribe to get active on this site or others to make friends and influence females themselves. (I know several young women who found significant others on Bumble, so that might be a good start, particularly as the service has options for both romance and platonic friendship depending on what each of you is actually looking for)

I feel as if I speak this for or represent a significant percentage of the male population with this specific post sentiment.

While in fact, I can only speak on the conversations I have personally witnessed and participated in, and my personal experience and perception.

I am far from perfect, and I have certainly made a donkey of myself more than once,

I think most men are wired on some level to want to

- please women
-to make women happy
-to be a provider
-to be a protector
- to build and share nurturing, nourishing relationships with women
-to build a better world
-to apply ourselves and our gifts in the greatest service and to our best potential


While I am usually someone who is very good at identifying a problem and root of a problem and creating solutions, I do not have the answers.

What I know is that in my life, I want to participate in healing these relationships.

I want to see that happen in the world.

I am working with the best of my current knowledge and ability to do what I can.


As an individual man or even a small group of men, I and we have very little influence over 1000 years of history, the "patriarchal elite" or and lot of these "great demons"

But I've been showing up.  I've been listening, and I'm ready to continue listening for as long as it takes and do what I can to integrate what resonates and away I am able to participate in healing together.

Thank you for sharing this intention and participating in a step towards a better world.


A reminder for some people or a distillation of the point of the post, our events generally attract more men than women. Hypothetically 10/4 ratio.

Since most of the core group of people sharing the work and pleasure of building and stewarding these spaces are men, that has a natural effect of tipping the ratio in that direction.

We would love to see an event attract 10 men AND 10 women!!!

We think that would be great for everyone and for permaculture!!

Interpret that however you want. I will get an example of an event flier or link to digital one, and ad I said, we are listening to the advice given, and we have a lot of work to do!

Looking forward to enjoying all the work we're doing.

Also in regards to the 20k to build vs a cost effective plan someone offers, is 10k of that 20k is paying for an excavator, operator, dump truck driver and huge amount of gravel for a road.

The other 10 k buys a 1200+sf, durable structure that required no permits or government interference or oversight. (Anything we build in a different different has to be less than 200sf to avoid permit requirements here.

This 10k investment gets us a LOT of structure with minimal hassle.